Undermine

By Osiris Media

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New episodes on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday! Sign up for Osiris Premium on Apple for ad-free episodes released a day early!


Phish’s Fall 1997 tour is one of the most celebrated in Phish history. To mark the tour’s 25th anniversary, Undermine will look at every show of the Fall 1997 tour, and 25 key shows of the 1990s that led up to this legendary tour. Hosted by Tom Marshall, each episode will focus on one Phish show, and will feature an interview with a notable guest from the Phish community—discussing their Phish journey, the show in discussion, and the connection between that show and the Fall 1997 tour.


Presented by Osiris Media.



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Episode Date
S4E5: 2/20/93 — Josh Carver
28:25

Today we’re rolling into 1993 with our guest Josh Carver, a longtime Osiris guest and listener. We talk with Josh about The Roxy show from 2/20/93. Josh actually missed this show, but he was at the Roxy shows before and after this infamous night. We all know that feeling. 


This show was another pivotal moment in Phish’s progression, and the show became legendary almost immediately. We hope you enjoy our first stop in 1993. 


Thanks to our partners at Green Future Wealth—they can help with all of your financial planning needs.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman and Eric Limarenko. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Production assistance from Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd.



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Sep 28, 2022
S4E4: 7/25/92 — Shelly Culbertson
38:28

In this episode, we keep moving through 1992 and look at one of the most notable shows of the early years—7/25/92, which has an incredible guest appearance by Carlos Santana and his percussionists. 


Our guest for this episode is Shelly Culbertson, who worked with former manager John Paluska and Dionysian Productions. Shelly was involved with the early online Phish community, and was the driving force behind Phish Tickets By Mail (PTBM). We talk with Shelly about the growth Phish experienced in these years, and how this tour opening for Santana poured more fuel on the fire for the band’s growth. The Santana sit-in on You Enjoy Myself is must-hear, but the whole set is essential early Phish.


Thanks to our partners at Green Future Wealth—they can help with all of your financial planning needs.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman and Eric Limarenko. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Production assistance from Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd.



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Sep 26, 2022
S4E3: 4/21/92 — Holly Bowling
30:20

As the next step in our journey through key shows of the ‘90s, we stop in Eureka, California, and check in with a fellow Californian about this show—Holly Bowling. We focus on 4/21/92, a show that has an ahead-of-its-time Tweezer, which served as an inspiration for one of Holly’s famous jam transcriptions. 


We heard in previous episodes about this Spring ‘92 run, which featured Phish’s first extended trip in front of West Coast fans. We talk with Holly about these shows, and about Tweezer, and of course, about her approach to interpreting some of these legendary pieces of improvisation. 


Thanks to our partners at Green Future Wealth—they can help with all of your financial planning needs.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman and Eric Limarenko. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Production assistance from Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd.



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Sep 23, 2022
S4E2: 8/3/91 — Amy Skelton
38:30

Welcome back! As a reminder, from now through December, we’ll be tracking Phish’s progression in the 1990s by focusing on 25 important shows of the 90s—leading up to the tour that changed everything, Fall 1997. And we’ll discuss every show of Fall ‘97. 


Today we’re talking about Amy’s Farm, 8/3/91, with the one and only Amy Skelton. Amy talks to us about her involvement with the band and the show that she hosted, which really was Phish’s first festival. These tapes were ubiquitous in the trading days. In the episode, we talk about the musical highlights and the importance of this gig at this point in the band’s career.  


Thanks to our partners at Green Future Wealth—they can help with all of your financial planning needs.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman and Eric Limarenko. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Production assistance from Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd.



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Sep 21, 2022
S4E1: 11/2/90 — John Paluska
39:23

Welcome to Undermine Season 4! We are back to track the road to Fall ‘97, and to celebrate amazing shows of the 1990s while leading up to that legendary tour. From now through December, we’ll be tracking Phish’s progression in the 1990s by focusing on 25 important shows of the 90’s—leading up to the tour that changed everything, Fall 1997, and we’ll discuss EVERY show of that tour. 


We start this season with 11/2/90, from Boulder, Colorado, with guest John Paluska. This show is notable because of course, this is Phish’s second trip to Colorado. In 1990, they would play 20 shows there. This show was a widely circulated tape, with some notable music moments we’ll discuss. And of course, John Paluska was Phish’s manager from 1990-2004, and helped the band grow in every way during the 1990s. 


Thanks to our partners at Green Future Wealth—they can help with all of your financial planning needs.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman and Eric Limarenko. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Production assistance from Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 19, 2022
S3E5: Hoist The Banner
53:55


At the end of the 13 show Baker’s Dozen, a run filled with jams, bustouts, debut covers, and zero repeats, Phish was awarded a banner to commemorate the event that would hang in the rafters of MSG among legendary sports achievements. And yet, like with the best moments in Phish history, the band didn’t simply sit back and admire their accomplishment, they used it to push themselves forward. Just as the Dick’s 2012 run inspired a return to jamming and setlist deconstruction, all of which built towards The Baker’s Dozen, the BD in turn has inspired Phish over the past five years to push through musical barriers, furthering their improvisational capabilities & pushing their music in ways no one thought possible.  


In the Season Finale of Undermine S3 we assess what The Baker’s Dozen meant & how it inspired Phish to attack 2018 and 2019, while also laying the groundwork for one of the best years of their career - 2021. In conversations with fans and Phish thinkers alike, we explore the songwriting explosion that came out of The Baker’s Dozen, and the renewed approach to show structure now that they’d seen how impactful their jamming could be within a show. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next season.


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May 25, 2022
S3E4: Jam Filled
59:33

When they returned from the hiatus in 2009, it took time for the band to regain their fluid improvisation. Over the next four years, they worked to strengthen their onstage communication, refine their approach, and ultimately reignite their jamming in 2012. From there, they began experimenting and taking risks, and by the time they reached The Baker’s Dozen, they were ready to take another step forward in their improvisation—dedicating three weeks to deep jamming. Since this run, jamming has become a focus of Phish’s live shows, pushing the band forward creatively in ways many never expected. 


In this episode, we dive into the band’s approach to improvisation, with a specific focus on their evolution from Dick’s 2012 through The Baker’s Dozen. Identifying key breakthroughs, stylistic shifts, and the resulting brilliance of the Summer 2017, we discuss The Baker’s Dozen as an achievement as well as a laboratory to propel the band forward. Through discussions with music experts and fans, we celebrate the jams of The Baker’s Dozen and explore how they ushered in the next phase of Phish’s career.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Episode Four pic by Andrea Nusinov. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.


Thanks To Our Partners:


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May 18, 2022
S3E3: Setlists
1:04:26

For as long as Phish fans have gathered to discuss and debate the band, the band’s setlists have been a consistent talking point. What songs are in the rotation, how do jams in typically non-jamming slots affect a show, why were there so many bustouts in a single show, what’s the thematic arc of the show? These topics and more have been analyzed by fans for decades—and we know it’s been thought about extensively by the band as well. By way of The Baker’s Dozen, Phish coalesced nearly 40 years of setlisting experimentations into a single run.


In Undermine S3E3 we dive into the evolution of Phish setlists. Beginning with 1993’s expanding catalog and 1994’s irreverent experimentation, we walk listeners through the band’s approach to crafting setlists based on the muse of the time. We discuss the approach to setlisting that separated the 3.0 era by way of 2012, and how comfortable and confident the band felt playing 13 shows with zero repeats by 2017. Beginning with a snapshot of Federal Donuts, we dive into one of the most unique aspects of The Baker’s Dozen—the songs Phish played.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.


Thanks To Our Partners:






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May 11, 2022
S3E2: The Long Gig
57:26

Throughout their history, Phish has constantly sought new ways to break down the barriers between their performance and their audience. Dubbed, The Long Gig (the LG), the band initially conceived of an indoor show where they’d announce to the audience that the doors were locking and they were going to play for 24hrs straight. This idea ultimately evolved into the band’s all-night set at Big Cypress on 12/31/99, and served as an inspiration for The Baker’s Dozen seventeen years later. 


In Undermine S3E2 we explore the concept of residencies in rock music, as well as in New York City, while diving into the evolving structure of a Phish tour which sought to create as immersive an experience as possible for fans. Focusing on the organizational approach to Big Cypress, we highlight the logistics of putting on such an event and how this impacted the band’s decision to set up shop in New York City for three weeks. We close by hearing from the 13er club as they chart through their experiences between the January 2017 announcement of The Baker’s Dozen to the journey of 13 straight Phish shows. The gig is long, but the jams - as we’ll discuss in a later episode - were worth it.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.


Thanks To Our Partners:




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May 04, 2022
S3E1: MSG
1:09:30


In the Summer of 2017 Phish settled into Madison Square Garden, “The World’s Most Famous Arena,” for a residency of 13 shows, immortalized as The Baker’s Dozen. Across nearly three weekends and four weekday gigs, Phish played 230+ songs without repeating a single one. They fused jokes from their past with music that looked ahead to their future, and connected with the fan community in a way they’d long hoped to. It was a historic run—not only for the band, but in rock history.


In the first episode of the season, Phish lyricist Tom Marshall walks listeners through the history of Madison Square Garden, as well as Phish’s history in that room. Highlighting the importance of the venue to 20th Century American Culture, as well as the comfort Phish had playing in such a historic room, we set the table for our third season on the band’s home court. We hear from journalists such as Will Hermes and Rob Mitchum, as well as fans who got to all 13 nights of the run such as Dianna Hank and Sam Timberg. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.


Thanks To Our Partners:




Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 27, 2022
Introducing | Sugar Maple
38:46

Hey there, Undermine fans! Please enjoy the first episode of our new fiction podcast: Sugar Maple. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe to see where the story goes!


In the series premiere, we meet our narrator, Terrance Woodridge, who brings us a tale he’s chased down: the story of Sugar Maple, the guitar of legend with a timeless sound that's passed from hand to hand over the years.


In this episode, we go back to 1951 and hear the story of "Sweet Licks" Bobby Lindro, an orphan from the farmlands outside Chicago. When his brand new Telecaster’s neck is destroyed, he's sure nothing can replace it, until his Aunt procures mysterious wood that seems to make Bobby's guitar truly sing, and gives Bobby dreams that carry him places he never meant to go.


Sugar Maple is presented by Osiris Media. Be sure to listen to the premiere of the song from this episode, Brimstone Lampfire, on March 15, wherever you listen to music. Please check out the limited edition poster for this episode, and the limited NFT release of episode and series art. If you like what you hear, please give us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. 


Episode 1 stars Fred Savage as Terrance Woodrige, pRicky Gee as Bobby Lindro, Connie Castanzo as Becky, Jo Walker as Rebecca Woodridge,  Deborah Geffner as Aunt Buggy, Daniel Light as Del Faucet, and Michelle Hurst as Doc. 


Brimstone Lampfire was written by Patrick Hart and Michael John Hancock.  


The Executive Producers of Sugar Maple are Tom Marshall and RJ Bee. Produced, Edited, Mixed and Mastered by Brad Stratton. Story by Ben Colmery, A.R. Moxon, and Tom Marshall. Episode 1 written by A.R. Moxon and Ben Colmery. Directed by James Masciovecchio. Musical direction by Don Hart. Produced by Tom Sullivan. Production assistance from Zach Brogan and Christina Collins. Art by Mark Dowd. Legal assistance from Gerald Gottesman. 




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Mar 24, 2022
S2E10: You're Already There
1:20:41

At the onset of the 2020s, Trey Anastasio got stuck on a platform high above MSG. While he played through with humor and grace, the moment would serve as the prelude to a year where we all felt unhinged. For those who were infected by Covid, or lost loved ones, 2020 was a nightmare. For everyone, it was an unexpected pause, marked by tension and a longing for normalcy.


In the Season 2 finale, we explore the last two years, through the lens of Phish. We hear from the Undermine team about our experiences in 2020, how Dinner And A Movie and The Beacon Jams helped us get through the year at home, and then we shift gears to discuss Phish in 2021. We talk about the anxiety of returning to live music, the thrill of hearing the first notes, and how Sci-Fi Soldiers may impact Phish long term. The band gave us a number of unexpected, albeit needed, gifts over the previous two years, proving once again, that if we as a community, simply surrender to the flow, the magic of Phish will prove that you’re already *there*.


Thanks to everyone who has listened, commented, and shared Season 2! We will be back in Spring 2022 with Season 3!


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook, and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 


Thanks to our partners: 




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Nov 24, 2021
S2E9: Phish Without Borders
1:17:04

To this point, Season 2 of Undermine has mirrored the fan experience with Phish—traveling to see them, engaging with the community, and trying to understand why we dedicate so much time, energy and money to this band. But what happens if you fall in love with Phish but have no ability to see them live or to engage with the community in person? What does the band mean to you if they’re 10,000 miles away? 


In this episode, we meet Phish fans from around the world. Some are foreign nationals who discovered the band via the internet but have had limited opportunities to see the band. Others are Americans who either went to live abroad, or chased the band overseas because they couldn’t get enough. Featuring interviews with Lee Farber, Mark Lewis, Jason Tully, Dylan Behan and more, we explore the global reach of Phish to better understand the total power of their music.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook, and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 


Thanks to our partners: 


Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.



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Nov 17, 2021
S2E8: Set II
1:17:42

Beyond the tape trading, the road trips, the lot vibe, the people you meet, the lights dropping, etc, the reason we all come back to Phish is for the music. Why do people throw everything they have into this band? Why are we podcasting about them in 2021? Why are we trying to decipher all of their inside jokes? Why are we debating and relisting to jams decades after they happened?


In this episode we explore these questions and more. Focusing on the world Phish has built through their music, we hear from die hard fans who break down the why behind their Phish fandom. Featuring interviews with Dave Calarco, Carla Ngo, Scott Bernstein, Pu Tzu and more, this episode looks at the extreme in-joke nature of the Phish fan experience and tries to better understand why we simple cannot get enough of this crazy band. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 


Thanks to our partners: 


Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.



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Nov 10, 2021
S2E7: Setbreak
1:04:50

And after all that, we go collect our thoughts and go back to waiting again for 15 minutes (they always promise it’ll be 15 minutes!). Setbreak is the time to get a grip back on reality, connect with neighbors, meet people, take a stroll, grab a bite, you name it. It’s the in between. Something has happened, and something more will happen, but for now, we wait once again.


In this episode, we explore what happens at setbreak while checking in with fans to learn more about the spiritual nature of a Phish show and to understand perspectives from using psychedelics to remaining sober at a show. We meet Jake Cohen and Rabbi Jessy Dressin, while hearing from Vic Vela, Paige Clem and more.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees.



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Nov 03, 2021
S2E6: Lights
53:08

The anticipation has been building for hours, months...maybe even years. So many hours spent listening to shows, so much planning just to get you into the venue and in your spot for the moment we all wait for: when the lights finally drop. It’s a moment of ecstasy for many, a relief for others, and the beginning of the journey into the unknown of that night’s show for all of us in attendance. 


In this episode, we explore the routines and stories from the community—hearing about what many of us do to ensure we’re exactly where we need to be to get the most out of each show. We also further explore our diverse community. We meet the rail riders, as well as activists who are doing all they can to ensure the safety of all fans at a show. Featuring stories from Lacy Boughn, Ashley Griffin, Dave Calarco, Ashley Driscoll of GrooveSafe, and more, we further explore why the Phish scene continues to evolve, and how we can be a kinder, more respectful community. 


We’re going to take an extended set break while we all enjoy Phish’s Fall Tour. We’ll be back on Wednesday, November 3!


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 


Thanks to our partners: 


Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.



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Oct 13, 2021
Introducing | Breaking Waves: Seattle
1:38
Breaking Waves: Seattle is the story of the scene that defined rock in the ‘90s. The show traces the roots of grunge, and details the rise and fall of the Seattle scene, and concludes with a look forward, examining the legacy of grunge and highlighting the current and emerging artists who will create Seattle’s next breaking wave. Produced for Audacy by Osiris Media.

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Oct 08, 2021
S2E5: Doors
57:26

There’s that moment at every Phish show where we transition from the bliss of the pre-show party to the business at hand of the show itself. We walk in, get our seats, gaze at the stage, and realize how many of us there are to see this incredible band. With this comes the realization that we’re amongst a wide and disparate tribe of people chasing the same thing, oftentimes from different starting points. 


In this episode, we explore those different starting points and the diverse group of fans that make up the Phish fan base. We hear about the challenges some fans face when feeling included in the scene, the obstacles many overcome just to experience a show, and ask some serious questions about who we are as a fanbase. Featuring stories from Malcolm Howard, Shaunea Robinson, Laura Keating, Stephanie Jenkins, and more, we highlight just how many people Phish has attracted, while showcasing ways that we can become a more unified and equal fanbase. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We'll see you next week!


Thanks to our partners: 




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Oct 06, 2021
S2E4: The Lot
1:04:17

At first blush, hanging out in a parking lot doesn’t sound that fun. But the Phish parking lot experience is completely different—part bazaar, part sprawling tailgating party, it’s a place for people to meet, hang out, exchange money for goods, and start the good times before a concert. 


In this episode, we stroll through the lot, conversing with vendors and artists alike, and hear from a few musicians about how Phish inspired their own creativity. Featuring stories from AJ Masthay, Dean Budnick, Joel Cummins, Holly Bowling, and more, we dive deep into the world of the lot, to learn more about why so many of us show up to a Phish venue hours before the concert even begins.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We'll see you next week!


Thanks to our partners: 




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Sep 29, 2021
S2E3: Load In
1:03:33

When we think of the Phish community, we usually think about the obsessive, or at the very least, passionate, fans. However, behind the scenes, in every venue Phish plays in, there’s a community that works together to make sure that the show goes on—safely, smoothly, and in the most enjoyable way possible.


In this episode, we hear from the crew, the bartenders, the ushers, and so many more, as they walk us through the load in and load out process before and after every Phish show. Featuring stories from Chris 

Kuroda, Brad Sands, Beth Montouri Rowles, and more, we dive deep into the world behind the stage, to learn about the community that makes Phish shows happen. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We'll see you next week!


Thanks to our partners: 


Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.



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Sep 22, 2021
S2E2: Let's Go On Tour
1:05:21

While many Phish fans in the early 90s discovered Phish by way of message boards and tape trades, the band solidified their status as one of the most important bands of the era through their unpredictable and thrilling live shows—and when you just had to hear, or see, the tour to understand the full story.  


In this episode, we hear about adventures on tour, and explore why “going on tour” is an essential element of the Phish community. We hear stories from fans like Drew Hitz, Chris Glushko, Gina Schmidt, and Laura Keating, while also exploring the nature of Phish criticism from fans like Dave Calarco, Steven Hyden and Rob Mitchum. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We'll see you next week!


Thanks to our partners: 




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Sep 15, 2021
S2E1: Hey, Check Out This Band
1:05:54

In the early days of the internet, college kids from around the country began to congregate online to discuss Phish and trade information and live show tapes. Evolving alongside the internet itself, the community helped the band reach new fans, expand their sound and reach a level of success which few could have foreseen in the 1980s. 


In the first episode of Undermine Season Two, Phish lyricist Tom Marshall walks listeners through the evolution of tape trading and the digital dialogue around Phish in the 1990s. We hear how this community grew, with insight from people like Charlie Dirksen, Shelly Culbertson, Michael Lazerow and Stephanie Jenkins, while hearing from a lot of fans who were part of the early Phish scene. 


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We'll see you next week!


Thanks to our partners: 




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Sep 08, 2021
Undermine Season 2: The Community - Trailer
1:59

Undermine is the definitive Phish podcast. In Season 2 we'll turn our focus to YOU, the Community. We've interviewed over 100 Phish fans to get to the heart of what's shaped this community, how it originated, how it's evolved, what issues persist, and how it's communicated with each other over the the last 30 years. In addition, we'll explore how Phish impacted the lives of their fans during 2020 & now, as live shows have returned.


Undermine Season 2 will premier on Wednesday, September 8.


Presented by Osiris Media.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 18, 2021
HF Pod On Tour!
1:08

Phish tour is back, and so is the Helping Friendly Podcast! HF Pod On Tour will feature live video Quick Hits at 1pm the day after every show—on Osiris Media's Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube channels.


We'll also have podcast episodes every Tuesday with a rundown of the tour thus far. Featuring great conversation, fans who were at the shows, and lots of laughs and music. Subscribe to the Helping Friendly Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.


We'll also be doing a very special event around Dick's, and an amazing contest that will be announced soon. HF Pod On Tour is presented by Shift Cannabis.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 28, 2021
Cluster Flies from JamBase
1:00:08

We have a special episode for you today, looking in depth at JamBase's Cluster Flies, the covers compilation reimagining Phish’s album Farmhouse. The limited-edition 3LP release was mastered by engineer Joe Lambert and features custom artwork and a poster created by longtime Phish collaborator Jim Pollock. You can pre-order the LP and Pollock poster here through Monday, May 3, or pre-order the digital version, which will be released on Friday, April 30.


This episode includes an interview with JamBase CEO Dave Onigman, conducted by Dave and Brian from the Undermine team. We also have a song recommendation from Cluster Flies from each member of the Undermine team. We hope you enjoy this amazing compilation.


These Phish covers were recorded by Umphrey’s McGee’s Brendan Bayliss, Club d’Elf, Daniel Donato, Chris Forsyth, Neal Francis, Jennifer Hartswick, Amy Helm, Lindsay Lou, Reed Mathis, White Denim’s James Petralli, Strand Of Oaks, Sylvan Esso, William Tyler, Sadler Vaden, Vetiver, Ryley Walker, and a supergroup led by Tim Palmieri (which includes our very own Amar Sastry).



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 29, 2021
TEASER: Alive Again
1:38

Alive Again is a limited series podcast exploring the solo career of Trey Anastasio.


Based on extensive interviews with Trey and his bandmates and collaborators, Alive Again will dive into evolution of Trey’s songwriting and creative development, as well as the enduring career of the Trey Anastasio Band.


The show will also cover Trey’s memories composing with Ernie Stires, his orchestral work, and his Broadway experience. The band’s experience with The Beacon Jams will be explored as well.


Coming this Summer. Visit https://www.osirispod.com/podcasts/alive-again/ for more info and to sign up for our email newsletter.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 14, 2021
Building The Community
1:04:08

On the season finale of Undermine, we hear from fans who saw Phish in the 1980s, and hear their perspectives on the band’s development as they grew from a college bar band into a regional phenomenon. In addition, we hear how tape trading first entered the Phish community, and how it fueled the band's growth. Finally, we speak to Paul Languedoc, Phish’s longtime sound engineer and Trey’s guitar maker. We hear about his life and career, how he came to work for Phish, and the band's progression toward the 1990s.


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Writing and production assistance by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance by Christina Collins, Nick Cejas and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you this summer for Season Two.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 07, 2021
The Moment of Inspiration
50:17

This week, we take a step back to examine Phish’s November 23, 1985 show at Goddard College, with a specific focus on the 27-min Whipping Post. During this show, Mike Gordon had an epiphany & decided he wanted to pursue music for the rest of his life. The jam in question shares a lot in common with early jamming from The Grateful Dead. We explore Phish’s relationship to The Dead, and focus comparing the two band’s during their formative years as well as looking at where The Dead was when Phish was originating. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Writing and production assistance by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance by Christina Collins, Nick Cejas and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 31, 2021
Paradise Found
50:26

This week, we look at Phish’s legendary show from the Paradise Rock Club, in Boston, on January 26, 1989. In yet another example of Phish refusing to play by the rules set by mainstream music, the band rented out the room and sold tickets against it. We hear from one of the guys who was involved in helping to sell out the show, and we talk about the band’s forays into Boston and New York in 1989. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Writing and production assistance by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance by Nick Cejas, Christina Collins and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 24, 2021
Junta
33:20

In this episode of Undermine, Phish lyricist Tom Marshall guides us through the making and release of Junta, Phish’s first official debut album. Interviews with Junta audio engineer, Gordon Hookailo, Junta cover-artist Jim Pollock, Phish’s first manager Ben Hunter and others who remember this pivotal time in Phish history. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Writing and production assistance by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance by Christina Collins, Nick Cejas and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 17, 2021
Westward Expansion and Improvisation
42:48

This week, we go Westward, to explore Phish’s trip to Colorado in 1988 in more detail, and to dive into the Mike’s Song from August 3, 1988. Dave and Brian also talk about King Crimson and Genesis, and the way those bands influenced Phish.


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company


If you enjoy Undermine, please give us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Writing and production assistance by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance by Christina Collins and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. 



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 10, 2021
The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday
1:02:40

How did a college project about the mythical land of Gamehendge become one of the most intriguing pieces of Phish lore? And how did The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday fit into the evolution of Phish in the important years of 1987 and 1988?


In this episode of Undermine, RJ, Matt, Jonathan and Brad discuss Phish in 1987 and 1988, including how the band’s sound changed as they solidified into the four-piece they are today, how new songs changed their playing and approach to the live shows, the importance of The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday, and how an excursion to Colorado in 1988 affected the band’s development. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Writing and production assistance by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance by Christina Collins and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.




Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 03, 2021
The Early Compositions
54:56

Core to the music of Phish are complex, evolving, emotionally moving compositions. Many of these early songs—Divided Sky, You Enjoy Myself, Foam, and others—remain highlights of the live experience. These songs created early in Phish’s career have stood the test of time, but what makes them so special? 


In this episode, we’ll hear about three of these songs from Don Hart, the composer and arranger who has worked with Trey Anastasio for more than 15 years; and Drew Hitz, a classically trained musician and Phish fan. Don and Drew will walk us through these songs and talk about why they are such enduring pieces of Phish’s catalog. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance from Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show logo from Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 24, 2021
The 80s Rock Scene
54:27

Phish’s song David Bowie combines quirky lyrics with an intricate musical arrangement that’s fit for a symphony. Starting with a discussion of the spirit and substance of this song, and a focus on the 8/29/87 version, Brian Brinkman and David Goldstein then use 1980s Phish to examine other notable bands from the decade like Minutemen, Yo La Tengo, Hüsker Dü, and R.E.M. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance from Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show logo from Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 17, 2021
The Early Shows
1:06:48

How did Phish go from playing cafeteria gigs at UVM to Madison Square Garden in only 10 years? We start to chart this path by looking at shows from 1983-1986, where intimate venues like Nectar’s and Doolin’s offered the band a chance to practice and refine their live sets. And at the same time, more experimental shows at places like Goddard College allowed the band to push further into the unknown. At the same time, the transition from a two-guitar band to a four-piece with keys, and the introduction of lots of new songs, combined to lay the foundation of Phish’s modern sound. 


In episode two of Undermine, RJ Bee, Jonathan Hart, Matt Dwyer, and Brad TenBrook explore some of Phish’s fundamental shows from 1983-1986, and the songs, venues, and overall sound that developed during these years. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company.


Visit SunsetLakeCBD.com and use the promo code UNDERMINE for 20% off your purchase of premium quality CBD products.


Start your path toward investments that align with your values. Visit www.greenfuturewealth.com and mention "Osiris" when scheduling your free virtual consultation to receive your free investment report.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance from Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show logo from Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 10, 2021
The Origins
58:33

How did a band with no major label from a small city in Northern Vermont become one of the biggest bands in music within a decade? What were the origins of Phish and what laid the foundation for their cultural timeline and organic growth?


In the first episode of Undermine, Phish lyricist Tom Marshall brings in the perspectives of fans and collaborators who saw their rise in Vermont and helped to create the scene that was critical as the band found their groove and structure in the early 80s. 


Undermine is sponsored by Upslope Brewing Company.


Visit SunsetLakeCBD.com and use the promo code UNDERMINE for 20% off your purchase of premium quality CBD products.


Start your path toward investments that align with your values. Visit www.greenfuturewealth.com and mention "Osiris" when scheduling your free virtual consultation to receive your free investment report.


Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Co-hosted by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart and Brad TenBrook. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein. Production Assistance from Christina Collins and Dawn Jenkins. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show logo from Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 03, 2021
Undermine Trailer
2:17
Undermine is the definitive Phish podcast. The first season will focus on Phish’s genesis in the 1980s—through deep-dives into the music, shows and songs; interviews with people who were there for the early years; and discussion about the lasting impact of these foundational years. Undermine is a combination of Under the Scales, Helping Friendly Podcast and Beyond the Pond. Presented by Osiris Media.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 13, 2021