By 37signals

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 Jun 8, 2019


A podcast by 37signals about the better way to work and run your business. In Season 2, we're going through Rework (the book) chapter by chapter and talking with authors, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, about what's changed in the world of business over the last eleven years since the book was published.

Episode Date
Don't be a Hero

You've been working on a thing for days, weeks, maybe months and you're still nowhere near finishing. Our natural instinct is to say, "I've already put this much time and energy into it, might as well finish." Well, most of the time this is wrong. You're not getting that time back either way and usually the better option is just to quit!

Sep 27, 2022
Quick Wins

Building and maintaining momentum is one of the most underrated things you can do when building products. Keep moving forward by shipping work early and often. The longer something takes, the less likely it is you'll finish it. At 37signals, we work in six-week cycles, but even six weeks is a long time, so pepper in some easy, quick wins to keep that momentum going.

Show Notes

Sep 20, 2022
Good Enough is Fine

At 37signals, we tend to solve problems by finding a "judo solution." The simplest, easiest, cheapest solution that gets you 90% of the way there. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be great. It just has to be good enough. Part of this is reframing and simplifying the problem itself. And, remember, you can always turn "good enough" into "great" later.

Show Notes

Sep 13, 2022
Meetings are Toxic

Meetings are the worst type of interruption. A one-hour meeting with five people is actually five hours of productivity lost. They're also horrible at conveying information. So, why do so many companies jump to meetings as the first option. Next time try writing something up, jumping on a a one-on-one call, or just skip the whole thing altogether!

Show Notes

Sep 06, 2022
Bubble Up

A close look at how we develop features at 37signals. Designer Michelle Harjani walks Shaun through the entire process of making the Bubble Up Feature in HEY.

Show Notes

Aug 09, 2022
Interruption is the Enemy of Productivity

Having a calendar peppered with meetings or other commitments is horrible for productivity. Most people need at least a few hours or even days of completely uninterrupted alone time in order to do their best work. On this episode Jason and David give some strategies for creating the empty space you need to be productive.

Show Notes

Jun 28, 2022
Reasons to Quit

Are you doing work that matters or are you just doing what you think you should be doing? Sinking too much time into something that you should have quit working on weeks ago is an easy trap to fall into. Avoid it by asking yourself some simple questions:

  • Why are you doing this?
  • What problem are you solving?
  • Is this actually useful?
  • Are you adding value?
  • Will this change behavior?
  • Is there an easier way?
  • What could you be doing instead?
  • Is it really worth it?

Show Notes

Jun 21, 2022
Illusions of Agreement

Simply describing your pitch can cause the illusion of agreement. Everyone may have a completely different idea of what you're talking about. Try sketching it out, hum the melody you want to create, or, better yet, start building the thing. Removing these levels of abstraction ensures everyone is on the same page.

Show Notes

May 31, 2022
Launch Now

If you had to launch your thing in just two weeks what would you cut out? Put off anything you don't absolutely need for launch. You can always build that stuff later when you have more information. It's best to just get it out there!

Show Notes

May 24, 2022
Sell Your By-products (Season 2)

Henry Ford turned wood scraps from Model T production into charcoal. That company is now called Kingsford and it's the leading manufacturer of charcoal in America. 37signals was a small web design firm before it started selling the project management tool it made to communicate with clients. That's now called Basecamp. No matter what you make, you're always making something else as well and there's probably a market for that too!

Show Notes

May 10, 2022
Tone is in Your Fingers

Any photographer will tell you it doesn't really matter what camera you use if you know how to take a good picture. So often, businesses obsess over getting a fancy office, the best software or breakroom snacks, when they really should be focusing on getting customers and making money. It doesn't matter what gear you have as long as you know what you're doing.

Show Notes

May 03, 2022
Focus on What Won't Change

A lot of companies focus on chasing hot trends or new technology. That's all fine and good, but the core of your business should be built around the things that people will always want. In the case of Basecamp, that means speed, simplicity, and great customer service. For a company like Amazon, it means focusing on fast delivery and easy returns. Customers are going to want these things now and 10 years from now.

Show Notes

Apr 26, 2022
Throw Less at the Problem

When things aren't working, it's human nature to throw more at the problem. More money, more people, more time. However, this usually ends up making the problem bigger. So, do less! Reframe the problem in such a way that it can be solved with fewer people, less money, and without endlessly pushing back deadlines.

Show Notes

Apr 19, 2022
Be a Curator

Everyone has more ideas than they can realistically fit in a product. A good museum doesn't just throw everything in its collection up on the walls. There's a curation process. Someone says, "no." It's in making these edits that the real product comes out, so embrace it!

Show Notes

Apr 05, 2022
Meetups and Miami

Basecamp was in Miami last week. I sat down with Jason and David to talk about why we were there, the importance of meeting colleagues in person, and investing in culture.

Mar 29, 2022
Making the Call is Making Progress

It's so easy to punt on something; to say, "let's wait until we have enough information to make the perfect decision." Perfect decisions don't exist, putting things off makes them pile up, and you'll end up getting absolutely nowhere. Very few decisions are set in stone. So, make calls as quickly as possible. Don't wait around for the perfect answer.

Show Notes

Mar 15, 2022
Ignore the Details Early On

It's incredibly easy to focus too much on the little details of what you're building. You can spend hours and hours on something that will rarely ship with the final product. And, details are important! But, early on is not the time to worry about them. Focus on the basics first and worry about the specifics later.

Show Notes

Mar 08, 2022
Start at the Epicenter

When starting something new, you can work on the stuff you could do, the stuff you want to do, and the stuff you have to do. It's the stuff you have to do is where you should begin. To find that epicenter ask yourself, "if I took this one thing away, would what I'm selling still exist."

Show Notes

Mar 01, 2022
Build Half a Product, Not a Half-Assed Product

You can't do everything you want to do and do it well. You just don't have the time, resources, people, etc., so you're going to have to cut some things. But, this isn't a bad thing at all! As with any other early constraints, embrace the editing process. Your product will be better off for it!

Show Notes

Feb 22, 2022
Embrace Constraints

When you're just starting off you're going to be surrounded by constraints. You probably won't have enough time to do everything you want to do. You probably don't have enough people or money either. Don't worry! These are good things! It's when you're boxed in that you're forced to make tough decisions on what to do and what not to do. This results in a clearer, more streamlined product. Embrace those constraints!

Show Notes

Feb 15, 2022
Less Mass

Businesses can get weighed down by things like excess staff, countless meetings, long-term contracts, etc. The more mass they take on the harder it is change direction. Being able to change direction, to change your mind, is essential to building a successful company.

Show Notes

Feb 08, 2022
Building to Flip is Building to Flop

A lot of people start businesses with the hope that they'll be able to sell it quickly for a huge pile of money. While this might happen sometimes, it's extremely rare and even worse, the businesses created with this goal sacrifice so much just for the chance to sell. They sacrifice their customers, their employees, their product quality... You get the idea. It's like building a house that only looks good in pictures, but you certainly wouldn't want to live in it.

Show Notes

Feb 01, 2022
Start a Business, Not a Startup

Last episode of the year and we're talking about startups. The new dry cleaner down the street doesn't call itself a startup. The pizza place on the corner doesn't call itself a startup. They're new businesses, that's all! So, what's so special about your tech company that you need a fancy word for it? Startups make you think of unlimited growth, huge investments, no expenses to worry about. This mindset can be unhealthy and detrimental to your new business.

Show Notes

Dec 21, 2021
You Need Less Than You Think (Season 2)

Before you start your great new business you'll NEED to hire some people, raise some money, rent an office, buy some ads, etc. etc. OF COURSE YOU DON'T. These are all just the trappings entrepreneurs tell themselves they need, when in reality, all you need is to start making something.

Show Notes

Dec 14, 2021
Outside Money is Plan Z

Taking outside money to start your business may seem like a good idea, but there are a ton of strings attached... You give up control. Cashing out becomes the #1 priority. It's addictive. It's usually a bad deal. Customers become less important than investors... You get the idea. Outside money should never be plan A.

Show Notes

Dec 07, 2021
Mission Statement Impossible

Last episode we discussed how important it is to stand for something and you'd think writing your values down in a mission statement would be a great way to let people know exactly what you stand for. Well, you'd be wrong. Mission statements are almost always vapid, boring, platitudes that end up saying nothing at all. Even worse, they often turn people away entirely!

Show Notes

Nov 30, 2021
Draw a Line in the Sand

Whenever you start something, especially a business it's important to know why you're doing what you're doing. Having strong opinions, standing for something, can help tremendously when it comes to making crucial decisions and creating super-fans.

Show Notes

Nov 23, 2021
No Time is No Excuse

"There're just not enough hours in the day!" This is probably the most common excuse people give for not starting something. Well, guess what. There most definitely are a few hours you could probably squeeze in here and there. And, we're not saying you have to quit your day job to do it!

Show Notes

Nov 16, 2021
Start Making Something (Season 2)

This week Jason and David discuss the essay titled "Start Making Something." It's only when you start building something the real insights come. Until then, all you have is just an idea. We also talk about Stanley Kubrick films and Jason introduces groundbreaking concepts like perforated pizza and "The Mysterious Cat."

Show Notes

Nov 09, 2021
Scratch Your Own Itch

Basecamp was originally designed as a way to manage 37signals' client work and its success can be credited to the fact that it was designed to scratch a very specific itch by the people with that were itching. Now, we're not saying that building something for others is necessarily a bad way to go about things, but building for your own needs has huge advantages.

Show Notes

  •  06:15 - "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products." - Steve Jobs in Triumph of the Nerds (PBS)
  • 12:53 - Hotwire
  • 13:57 - Not invented here (Wikipedia)
  • 14:26 - Mary Kay Ash (Wikipedia)
  • 18:12 - Second-system effect (Wikipedia)
  • 21:35 - Minimum viable product (Wikipedia)
  • 21:42 - Making sense of MVP - Henrik Kniberg
  • 23:55 - The Homer (Simpsons Wiki)
Nov 02, 2021
Make a Dent in the Universe

This week we discuss the importance of doing meaningful work. At least meaningful to you. What you do is your legacy, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to change the world. You just need to be doing something that changes YOUR world.

Show Notes

Oct 26, 2021
Enough with "Entrepreneurs"

"Entrepreneur" sounds really fancy. Like a member of some exclusive club. But, what we're really talking about is just someone who starts something. Is it time to retire this word? Is there a better word to replace it? Can a business podcast go 30 minutes without talking about Steve Jobs, luxury cars, and watches?

Show Notes

Oct 19, 2021

Working long hours, putting in overtime, logging on on the weekends, have become badges of honor, but there's a big difference between work and getting stuff done. This week Jason and David push back against this idea of workaholism.

Show Notes

Oct 12, 2021
Why Grow?

Basecamp has always prided itself on staying small and lean. But, with two major products, we're going to change that. The question when looking to grow, however, is "why?"

Show Notes

Oct 05, 2021
Planning is Guessing (Season 2)

People put too much stock in making long-term plans, but let's call them what they really are: guesses. On this episode we discuss deadlines, business plans, world domination, and Dungeons & Dragons.

Show Notes

Sep 28, 2021
Learning from Mistakes is Overrated

"Fail early and often." You hear this all the time in the tech start-up world. Failure has long been held up as a badge of honor for new start-ups. This week Jason and David take on this idea and make a pitch for learning from your successes instead of your mistakes.

Show Notes

Sep 21, 2021
Ignore the Real World

We continue our revisit of Rework with the essay, "Ignore the Real World." Topics include new ideas failing, risk avoidance, and Marvel movies.

Show Notes

Sep 14, 2021
The New Reality

In this episode we dive deep into the introduction and chapter 1 of Rework, The New Reality.

Show Notes

Sep 07, 2021
Before Basecamp

Rework is coming back for season 2 this September! In the meantime here's a little bonus to tide you over. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, during the dot com bubble, Basecamp cofounders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson both had run-ins with venture-backed tech startups. These experiences would form many of the ideas later published in Rework.

Show Notes

Jul 27, 2021
You Had Me At Hylo

Tibet Sprague is a "communitarian technologist" with a vision for building companies and communities outside of investor-driven, for-profit systems. His current project is Hylo, an online platform for collaboration that's governed by its users.

Show Notes

"Truss the Process" and "Success is Surviving," our episodes on pay equity - 00:18

"Coops: The Next Generation" and "Exit to Community," our episodes about cooperatives - 00:21

Hylo - 00:29

Tibet Sprague on Twitter - 1:08

Terran Collective
- 1:30

NRG acquired One Block Off the Grid (renamed Pure Energies Group) in 2014 - 4:10

Holo - 7:48

Announcement about Holo giving Hylo to Terran Collective - 9:08

Sociocracy for All - 17:30

"Mass vaccination site in Gary draws Chicago-area residents" (Chicago Tribune) - 24:32

"Gary, Indiana" from The Music Man - 24:42

Tibet's List of Resources

Reinventing Organizations
Free, Fair, and Alive: The Insurgent Power of the Commons
Emergent Strategy

More books, articles, and resources can be found on Terran Collective's website.

Apr 20, 2021
HEY, Is This App Accessible?

How Basecamp's Michael Berger approached accessibility during the development of HEY, including collaborating with a blind Basecamp user on accessible features that ultimately improved the experience for everyone.

Show Notes

Michael Berger on Twitter - 00:52

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines - 3:49

Apple's Voiceover - 5:32

JAWS - 5:39

NVDA - 5:41

Scott Ballard-Ridley on Twitter - 12:47

HEY for Work - 18:32

Ruby on Rails Core Team - 23:33

thoughtbot - 23:44

Aspiritech - 24:12

CSUN Assistive Technology Conference - 26:29

HEY's Accessibility page | Michael's write-up of his work on HEY - 29:51

Wailin's tweet complaining that Shaun doesn't insert enough airhorn - 30:10

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 30:43

Manos: The Hands of HEY - 30:50

Apr 13, 2021
Success is Surviving

When Robin Petravic and Cathy Bailey bought Heath Ceramics from the company's founders in 2003, they promised to keep the dinnerware maker and its manufacturing workforce in its home base of Sausalito, California. The pandemic provided an opportunity for Heath to recommit to this pledge and create a Living Wage Initiative, which in turn prompted a radical overhaul of the company's 401(k) program. Robin Petravic comes on Rework to talk about walking the walk on equity, resilience, and equipping Heath for the next 200 years.

Robin and Cathy wrote about the Living Wage Initiative in Heath's January newsletter.

Show Notes

Heath Ceramics website | Instagram - 1:02

"Edith Heath: A Rebellion in Clay" (KCET, 2019) - 1:14

"A New Year, 166 New Owners"
- 6:30

"Marin County's intensive effort drove down a COVID surge among Latino residents" (San Jose Mercury News) - 10:46

MIT Living Wage Calculator - 15:46

Eau de Space - 25:16

Apr 06, 2021
From Insolvency to Upsolve

Upsolve makes a free tool that automates the process of filing for Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy. The organization is an atypical tech startup that's also an atypical non-profit. Co-founder and CTO Mark Hansen comes on the show to talk about how Upsolve alternately embraces and subverts the norms of the tech and non-profit worlds, and why the "right" corporate structure won't necessarily prevent an organization from causing harm.

Show Notes

Upsolve website | Twitter - 00:40

Mark Hansen on Twitter - 00:48

"HHS failed to heed many warnings that was in trouble" (Washington Post, February 2016) - 1:52

Rohan Pavuluri on Twitter - 2:28

Jonathan Petts on Twitter - 2:29

A 2014 study by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found that many payday loans trap borrowers in revolving debt - 3:45

Upsolve's explanation of a bankruptcy discharge - 5:37

Upsolve's explanation of the "meeting of creditors" - 8:17

The Legal Services Corporation's Technology Initiative Grant Program - 10:17

Philadelphia Legal Assistance - 10:22

Certified B Corporation - 10:32

Sidewalk Labs - 12:00

"YC-backed Upsolve is automating bankruptcy for everyone" (TechCrunch, January 2019) - 13:28

Yvon Chouinard's 2019 interview in Fast Company - 20:28

Mar 30, 2021
Truss The Process

In 2016, software infrastructure consulting firm Truss made salaries transparent across the entire company. Salaries were revealed internally for all employees, from the executives on down. In this episode, Truss CEO Everett Harper and COO Jen Leech talk about why and how they approached their salary transparency project, and how they've adapted this system as the company has grown.

For more details, check out Jen's write-ups of the project on the Truss company blog: "Why We Made Salary Transparent" and "How We Made Salaries Transparent."

Show Notes

Truss website | LinkedIn | GitHub | Twitter - 00:30

Everett Harper's bio | @everettharper | Jen Leech's bio | @jennifermleech - 1:20

Buffer's policy on open salaries - 3:27

"The True Story of the Gender Pay Gap," a 2016 Freakonomics Radio episode - 3:47

"Demystifying the Gender Pay Gap: Evidence from Glassdoor Salary Data" - 4:52

Dreyfus model of skill acquisition (Wikipedia) - 6:43

Mar 23, 2021
Coops: The Next Generation

Imagine if gig workers like rideshare drivers or grocery shoppers were compensated for their labor through ownership stakes in the Lyfts and Instacarts of the world. Imagine if companies distributed profits not just to founders and investors, but to their employees and customers. is an accelerator for startups that are doing just this—reimagining concepts like scale, investment, and governance under a cooperative ownership structure, and trying to create a more equitable economic system in the process.

Show Notes

Exit to Community - 00:13 | Twitter | LinkedIn - 00:37

Greg Brodsky on Twitter | LinkedIn - 00:54

Greg's dad, Howard Brodsky - 1:25

Greg was on the board of directors of the Cooperative Development Institute, a nonprofit for coops - 1:38's graduates - 2:29

Jessica Mason on Twitter | LinkedIn - 2:54

40 Acre Cooperative - 5:31

The U.S. Federal Reserve says the typical white American family has 8x the wealth of the typical Black family - 6:50

Equitable Economy Fund - 7:20

Driver's Seat Cooperative - 11:11

Twitter discussion about imagining Apple as a coop - 12:56

Mar 16, 2021
HEY World

Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about HEY World, a new feature of the HEY email service where customers can create a super simple blog. HEY World has no templates, no endless scroll, no ads, no trackers, and no JavaScript. It represents Basecamp's attempt to create a Web 1.0 typewriter for our current digital age. In this episode, we talk about the return of blogging, countering abuse, and the sunsetting of Basecamp's long-running Signal v. Noise blog. Stay tuned until the end for a chance to win some Basecamp bucks! And by Basecamp bucks, we mean actual American dollars.

Show Notes

HEY - 00:17

Jason's post announcing HEY World - 00:22

Signal v. Noise - 00:34

The dumpster fire project - 2:02

Jason on HEY World - 3:10

David on HEY World - 3:13

"Pick A Fight (on Twitter)," a vintage episode about David's relationship with Twitter - 3:28

"100% Facebook-Free," our episode about getting Basecamp off Facebook and Instagram - 4:40

"Two Weeks," our episode about launching HEY and running afoul of Apple - 5:21

Berkshire Hathaway's website - 18:23

The.Ink, Anand Giridharadas' newsletter - 18:45

The Lefsetz Letter - 20:21

HEY's Screener - 27:20

HEY's Shield - 27:44

Basecamp's "Until the end of the Internet" policy - 30:56

Greymatter - 31:34

David and Jason talk about how they met via email in this episode - 31:58

Mar 09, 2021
A Dose of Empathy

Equilibria, a company that makes CBD products for women, has a team of dedicated dosage specialists who do one-on-one consultations with customers. During the pandemic, this team has taken on an unprecedented amount of customer support—bearing witness to the heightened stress and anxiety that their customers are feeling around job security, caregiving, and family life. Equilibria's Marcy Capron Vermillion and Maia Reed come on Rework to talk about helping this team maintain their own stores of emotional energy.

Show Notes

"Women Tending to Their Basic Needs Is Not Self-Care" by Meredith Ethington - 00:12

"This Is A Primal Scream," the New York Times' special report on American mothers' mental health crisis - 1:02

Equilibria website | Instagram - 1:13

Marcy Capron-Vermillion - 2:20

Maia Reed - 3:39

Illinois Women in Cannabis - 4:25

Ellementa - 4:28

Laura van Dernoot Lipsky of The Trauma Stewardship Institute - 12:12

Mar 02, 2021
The Humble Fungus

A career climbing the ladder in tech and software left Jesse Noller feeling disillusioned and isolated. He found connection, community, and purpose in a different kind of complex distributed system—mushrooms. Today he's the proprietor of a spore-to-table business called The Humble Fungus. (Content warning: This episode mentions suicide.)

For free and confidential emotional support, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.

Show Notes

Jesse Noller on Twitter | Instagram - 1:02

The Humble Fungus website | YouTube | Facebook - 1:10

Community Food Share in Louisville, CO - 3:32

The Humble Fungus "About Us" page - 14:12

The Humble Fungus on Patreon - 20:50

Feb 23, 2021
Greening Basecamp

Basecamp recently set out to do a carbon accounting, looking at the company's emissions, as well as meaningful ways to offset and mitigate those impacts. Jane Yang and Elizabeth Gramm, the two Basecampers who took on this daunting and nuanced project, come on the show to discuss not just the work itself, but how they've been processing the fear, skepticism, grief, and hope that come with trying to address the climate crisis.

Show Notes

The United Nations 2018 special report on global warming of 1.5ºC (PDF) - 1:52

"Why Air Quality Matters," David Heinemeier Hansson's presentation to the company about indoor air quality - 2:26

The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells - 4:01

Explainer on Scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions - 5:46

Basecamp's former office in Chicago - 6:22

"Spending in the Clouds," our episode about looking for savings on Basecamp's cloud services - 6:59

Books by Basecamp - 10:18

"Towards carbon negativity," Jane's first post about the project on Signal v. Noise - 10:56

"Want to Do Something About Climate Change? Follow the Money" (NYT) - 13:05

"You Never Forget George Pappageorge," our episode about closing the Chicago office - 16:25

Microsoft's Sustainability Calculator for its cloud services - 17:59

"Basecamp has offset our cumulative emissions through 2019," Jane's follow-up post on SvN - 22:09

Cool Effect - 25:05

GoClimate - 25:06

ClimateAction.Tech - 26:08

Wholegrain Digital - 26:35

"The Chicago plant that sparked a hunger strike amid environmental racism claims" (The Guardian) - 27:04 - 27:38

Elizabeth's Reading Recommendations

A January 2021 article by David Wallace-Wells about the pandemic and climate change

What We Think About When We Try Not To Think About Global Warming, Per Espen Stoknes

Hope and Grief in the Anthropocene, Lesley Head

The Sixth Extinction, Elizabeth Kolbert

The Ecology of Wisdom, Arne Naess

The Mushroom at the End of the World, Anna Tsing

The Overstory, Richard Powers

What Are You Going Through, Sigrid Nunez

Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer

Feb 16, 2021
Send A Little Delight

Comfort and joy were in short supply this year, but we're doing our best to end 2020 on a cozy note. Merissa of Basecamp support talks about surprising customers with gifts throughout the year, whether it's to thank them for their fandom or apologize for a disappointing experience. Then Wailin shares a few items from her 2020 gift guide, and Joan of Basecamp customer support reviews a scented candle. Wishing all of our listeners a restful holiday season, and we'll see you in 2021!

Show Notes

Fabric in Flames - 00:35

love languages - 3:15

Basecamp merch store - 6:15

Elami - 10:42

Voluspa - 14:29

Packed With Purpose - 15:32

Gift Boss - 15:58

Greetabl - 16:15

Barefoot Dreams blankets - 17:13

Minky Couture blankets - 17:19

Oprah's Favorite Things - 17:35

Barefoot Dreams CozyChic Lite Circle Cardigan - 19:05

Glerups slippers - 19:28

Solo Stove - 20:06

Corksicle Classic stemless wine tumbler - 20:25

Parks Project x Rumpl sherpa blanket - 20:46

Spindrift subscription - 21:25

Mason Cash cane mixing bowls - 21:46

Neogen A-Clear Soothing Clear Spot Patch - 23:06

Ello Tidal 20-ounce Glass Tumbler with Lid - 23:58

Joan Stewart on Twitter - 24:35

Shaun reviewed the Boy Smells "Polyamberous" candle in our previous episode - 24:48

Kacey Musgraves "Slow Burn" collection - 25:53

IKEA's special edition candles - 26:18

"Amber" by 311 - 27:45

Dec 22, 2020
A Dumpster Fire of a Year

HEY launch, App Store, we can’t take it anymore
Antitrust, masks a must, let’s go eat the upper crust
Comfy pants, TikTok dance, POTUS rants, protest chants
COVID cruise can't disembark, David's back in Denmark

We didn’t start the fire—well, in this case we did.

Show Notes

Andy Didorosi on Twitter - 00:09

"Meet Andy," our episode about Andy joining Basecamp - 00:18

Signal v. Noise - 00:33

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:36

HEY - 2:22

H.E.R.L. - 2:50

The dumpster fire livestream - 4:38

Detroit Bus Company - 5:59

Nathan on Twitter - 6:48

Raspberry Pi - 9:10

Recycle Here (Facebook) - 12:30

Ben Wolf of Ferrous Wolf Fabrication (Instagram) - 14:42

Monica Dubray - 14:51

Eric Froh (Instagram) - 14:53

Josh Bacon on Twitter - 15:03

"The Making of a Dumpster Fire" (SvN) - 25:31

Polyamberous candle from Boy Smells - 29:08

Kacey Musgraves collab with Boy Smells - 29:33

Dec 15, 2020
HEY for Work

Basecamp is winding down a busy year with one more thing: the rollout of its HEY email service for the workplace. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about privacy, marketing, onboarding, and the other considerations that went into making HEY for Work. They also reflect on the roller coaster ride of the last year.

Show Notes

HEY - 00:41

HEY for Work - 00:46

Jason Fried on Twitter - 00:56

DHH on Twitter - 00:57

HEY's spy pixel blocker - 14:12

"The Spy Who Emailed Me," one of our episodes about tracking pixels - 14:35

"Two Weeks," our episode about the chaotic launch of HEY - 17:05

"Winston Sat At His Computer," one of our episodes about worker surveillance - 19:24

"Don't Promise" (Signal v. Noise) - 27:16

DHH did not write this copy about hygge for the Danish tourism board - 32:48

Dec 08, 2020
Support and Console-ation

In the last several years, a group of Basecamp customer support representatives has developed an expertise around "on-call support," or tackling some of the thornier technical issues that require diving into the code base of our applications. This team of self-taught specialists grew out of curiosity, creativity, and an approach to programming that emphasizes fixing over building.

Show Notes

Basecamp's customer support team - 00:13

Jim Mackenzie on Twitter - 00:55

Jamis Buck on Twitter - 3:18

Jamis adapted his original Basil & Fabian on-call notes into a series that teaches newbies about algorithms and computer science. You can read Basil & Fabian on Jamis' website or on Kindle - 3:27

Dan Kim is now a programmer on Basecamp's Android team - 5:57

how to make templates in Basecamp 2 - 6:30

Wikipedia's explanation of traceroutes - 13:54

Kibana is another technical tool used at Basecamp - 14:55

our episode about holding office hours - 16:05

Rosa on Twitter - 16:07

Dec 01, 2020
Shape Up with Clients

Since releasing Shape Up, the book by Basecamp's Ryan Singer about our approach to product development, we've heard from other companies who've also adopted this methodology. David Nichols is the co-founder and CEO of Loupe, a company that helps design machines for clients in sectors from aerospace to packaging. He comes on Rework to talk about using Shape Up principles with clients who come from a world of complex contracts and project overruns.

Show Notes

Our previous episode, "Shape Up: The Print Edition" - 00:11

Shape Up - 00:16

David Nichols on Twitter - 00:45

Loupe - 00:49

Six-week cycles - 7:56

Circuit breaker - 13:50

Loupe's explanation of how they "Ship in Six" - 17:30

Our episode introducing Shape Up - 24:52

We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap & Prayers" - 28:02

Nov 24, 2020
Shape Up: The Print Edition

In 2019, Basecamp released Shape Up, a digital book by head of product strategy Ryan Singer about our approach to product development. Since then, Ryan has added sections in response to reader feedback and released a print edition. Ryan comes back on Rework to talk about connecting with other business owners using Shape Up, and how he approached the editing, design, and distribution of the physical book without going through traditional publishing channels.

Show Notes

Our episode introducing Shape Up - 00:10

Ryan Singer's Twitter | website | newsletter - 00:13

Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 00:16

Basecamp's other books - 00:43

Six-week cycles - 3:08

Setting the appetite - 3:36

Principles of shaping - 4:29

Hill charts - 5:20

What about bugs? - 9:48

HEY - 10:33

Making new products - 11:19

Basecamp merch store - 16:21

Notability - 16:57

Ryan's live sessions are on the Shape Up page - 17:24

Ryan's Shape Up Live session with Adam Wathan of Tailwind CSS - 19:34

Nov 17, 2020
Take Some Time Off (We Mean It!)

Unlimited paid time off is a common perk in the tech industry, but as one company discovered, an open-ended vacation policy led to confusion and even burnout. Dan Jimenez of Chatbooks comes on Rework to talk about how they shifted from unlimited to mandatory PTO, and how they're recalibrating expectations for work, productivity, and rest during a turbulent time.

Show Notes

"How the 'Knives Out' Costume Designer Chose Chris Evans' Perfect Sweater" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 1:50

"27 Days in Tokyo Bay: What Happened on the Diamond Princess" (Wired) - 2:16

Wailin and Shaun discussed how they spent their sabbaticals in "The Bean Machine" - 2:51

Basecamp's PTO policy - 3:11

We addressed our PTO policy change in "It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 1" and "Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 2" - 3:25

Dan Jimenez on LinkedIn | Twitter - 3:42

Chatbooks - 3:45

Nate Quigley, CEO of Chatbooks - 5:49

Rachel Hofstetter, CMO at Chatbooks - 18:37

Dan Jimenez's Twitter thread about changing Chatbooks' PTO policy - 19:36

"What is Hygge?" - 23:35

John Wick - 24:18

Boy Smells - 24:35

literary candles from Hearth & Hammer - 24:39

We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap and Prayers" - 24:42

A24 x Joya film genre candles - 24:47

Bath & Body Works white pumpkin candle - 26:42

Shaun gets his togarashi from Third Street Market in Whitefish, Montana - 27:07

Nov 10, 2020
Create Your Own Serendipity

More than ever, the tech industry is re-thinking how work gets done and how great ideas come to light when people are no longer linked by their physical location. In this episode, we have frank but hopeful conversations with Deldelp Medina of Black & Brown Founders and Michael Berhane of People Of Color In Tech. They talk about the ongoing work of building intentional communities in tech and modeling what it means to truly trust and support each other.

Show Notes

"Duty Calls," the famous XKCD comic - 00:18

"How Remote Work Could Destroy Silicon Valley" (Marker) — 00:40

"'Rich people leave, artists and queerdos return': is San Francisco's tech exodus real or a fantasy?" (The Guardian) - 1:09

Deldelp Medina on LinkedIn | Twitter - 2:07

Black & Brown Founders website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:10

History Channel article on the 1978 murders of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk - 2:41

PBS article on Jim Jones and The Peoples Temple in Guyana - 2:46

Ruth Asawa - 5:15

BMUG (Berkeley Macintosh Users Group) - 6:34

Michael Berhane on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram - 11:26

POCIT (People Of Color In Tech) website | Twitter | Instagram - 11:29

POCIT newsletter - 17:39

Techish podcast - 17:50

Techish co-host Abadesi Osunsade - 17:58

The Lean Startup - 20:20

Aniyia Williams - 25:51

Nov 03, 2020
Better Product with Adam Stoddard

Better Product is a podcast by Innovatemap, a digital product agency. We are playing their episode featuring Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, who joins them to talk about Basecamp's design philosophy and the thought process behind the look of 

Show Notes

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:04

Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson discussed Superhuman in a previous Rework episode - 12:20

"Superhuman is Spying on You" by Mike Davidson - 13:23

HEY's pixel tracker blocking feature - 13:33

Oct 27, 2020
Babies at Work

We talk to two very different small businesses about their Babies at Work programs, where new parents can have their infants with them at the office. With COVID sending so many office workers home—and pushing women out of the workforce altogether—acknowledging employees' whole selves is more important than ever. The companies in today's episode talk about how they've adapted their programs for a work-from-home-during-a-pandemic reality.

Show Notes

Leah Silber on Twitter - 00:05

Tilde - 00:58

Leah's 2017 essay, "Babies at Work: It's Weird that it's Weird" - 1:06

Our episode where Basecamp employees answered questions about working from home with kids - 2:36

"865,000 women left the workforce in September" (The 19th) - 2:48

“We’re just beginning to understand the extent of Covid-19’s feminist nightmare” (MSNBC) - 3:05

W.S. Badger Company - 3:43

Badger’s Babies at Work program - 4:09

"Parents Got More Time Off. Then the Backlash Started." (NYT) - 18:47

Parenting in the Workplace Institute - 24:03

Oct 20, 2020
Privacy Scavenger Hunt

Imagine a corporate privacy policy on a website that was actually comprehensible and written by and for human beings. We talk to companies who have done just this, and what it means to build a business that has respect for privacy baked in from the outset. We also talk to a researcher who's witnessed the difficulty of navigating online privacy settings.

Show Notes

Mark Asquith's website | Twitter | Instagram - 00:21, part of Rebel Base Media - 00:28

Captivate’s privacy policy - 1:25

Hana Habib's website - 2:57

GDPR -  3:16

CCPA - 3:18

The study on privacy usability that Hana and her team published (PDF) - 3:46

Kaitlin Maud on Twitter | Instagram - 6:13

Rain or Shine Recruiting - 6:14

Rain or Shine Recruiting’s privacy policy - 11:50

Ryan Jones on Twitter - 13:16

Flighty - 13:18

Flighty’s privacy policy - 17:15

“A Hosty Retreat,” our episode about switching podcast hosts over privacy concerns -23:00

"Overcast's latest beta update tells listeners which podcasts are tracking them" (The Verge) - 23:06

Full Transparency Mode - 23:23

Transistor - 29:50

Oct 13, 2020
Return to Mojito Island

We do a quick check-in with Basecamp CEO Jason Fried about what he's been up to since launching HEY in June. He talks about running the company as the pandemic stretches on, the importance of not making promises, and learning to swim.

Show Notes

"Greetings from Mojito Island," our check-in episode with DHH - 00:14

"Hey, What's Going On?", our episode launching HEY - 00:43

HEY for Work - 2:47

“Don’t Promise” (Signal v. Noise) - 3:51

“Something’s Broken,” our episode on recent downtime - 4:58

Coalition for App Fairness - 12:43

Learn more about our conflict with Apple in our episode “Two Weeks” - 14:51

Vox explainer on Apple, Epic Games, and Fortnite - 15:19 

Oct 08, 2020
Greetings from Mojito Island

Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson has been on a not-totally-intended sabbatical from both work and Twitter, and on an entirely intended break from living in the U.S. He checks in from Europe to talk about how he's managing his time off as the boss, and what developments back at Basecamp briefly pulled him back into work.

Show Notes

“Two Weeks,“ our episode about the launch of HEY - 5:00

Basecamp’s sabbatical policy - 5:23

HEY for Work - 8:23

HEY'S Paper Trail feature - 8:38

The School of Life - 9:27

It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy At Work by Jason Fried and DHH - 13:45

"Take A Break," our episode on sabbaticals - 15:05

“Something’s Broken,” our episode about recent outages - 15:58

"All Bugs are Not Created Equal" from Getting Real - 21:04

Oct 06, 2020
Selling Burnout with Anne Helen Petersen

Culture writer Anne Helen Petersen, author of the new book Can’t Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation, comes on the show to talk about how the real estate agents of the reality show Selling Sunset embody toxic ideas around work, passion, and career success. Along the way, Anne and Wailin discuss Christine's outfits, how they can't tell Brett and Jason apart, that $40 million listing, and more!

Show Notes

Anne Helen Petersen on Twitter - 0:39

Anne's newsletter, Culture Study - 0:43

The original BuzzFeed News piece, "How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation" - 0:47

Anne's book, Can’t Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation - 0:52

Selling Sunset - 1:53

Wailin mentioned Selling Sunset in our episode "Apps Without Code" - 2:00

A BuzzFeed News profile of reality show producer Adam DiVello - 3:23

Laguna Beach: The Real Orange County - 3:25

The Hills - 3:28

Oppenheim Group - 3:42

Jason Oppenheim on Instagram | Brett Oppenheim on Instagram - 5:36

Mary Fitzgerald on Instagram - 7:04

Heather Rae Young on Instagram - 8:51

Amanza Smith on Instagram - 10:51

"How does the commission work on Selling Sunset?" - 12:55

Chrishell Stause on Instagram - 14:40

Davina Potratz on Instagram - 16:14

"Welcome to Airspace: How Silicon Valley helps spread the same sterile aesthetic across the world" (The Verge)  - 24:02

"Hollywood Hills stunner from 'Selling Sunset' sells for $35.5 million" (Los Angeles Times) - 25:22

Christine Quinn on Instagram - 26:13

A roundup of Christine’s outfits - 27:28

Errol Morris films on the Criterion Channel - 32:41

Sep 29, 2020
Something's Broken

Basecamp recently suffered three outages in a week. Programming lead Jeremy Daer and director of operations Troy Toman come on the show to discuss their approach to customer communication around these kinds of incidents. They talk about public accountability, mental health, and why the human side of incident response is just as critical as the technical details. (Read Jeremy's post and Troy's post on Signal v. Noise.)

Show Notes

Troy Toman on Twitter - 00:04

Basecamp's policy on summer hours - 00:15

Jeremy's Signal v. Noise post - 1:35

Troy's Signal v. Noise post - 1:38

Jeremy Daer on Twitter - 2:58

Basecamp's status page showing its uptime percentages - 3:55

The Big Integer incident was covered on Rework | in this Signal v. Noise post  - 4:36

Sep 22, 2020
Farewell, West Loop

Basecamp has closed its physical office after a 10-year run in Chicago's West Loop area. In this episode, we say good-bye to the neighborhood and two of its businesses. J.P. Graziano and un-cooked are small, family-owned restaurants on either side of the longevity spectrum: Jim Graziano is the fourth-generation owner of an Italian food importer-turned-sandwich shop, and Jeremy Jones opened his vegan grab-and-go place with his mother and wife in July. Jim and Jeremy talk about weathering the pandemic as independent restaurant owners.

Show Notes

Our previous episode about closing the Chicago office - 00:21

J.P. Graziano Grocery Company website | Instagram | Twitter - 2:15

un-cooked website | Instagram - 7:29

Collective Resource Compost - 12:27

Strength in the City | fundraising campaign for their mentorship program with SRV - 20:17

Taste Real Chicago - 34:03

Sep 15, 2020
Exit to Community

A group of startup founders, investors, and thinkers are reimagining corporate ownership to take into account all of the people who help build the business—not just executives and investors, but customers, users, and suppliers. Their vision for Exit to Community is outlined in this zine, and two of its authors come on Rework to talk about their vision for a more equitable and inclusive end game for tech startups.

Show Notes

Zebras Unite website | Twitter - 1:18

"Exit to Community: A Community Primer" zine - 1:24

Mara Zepeda on Twitter | Mara's previous interview on Rework - 1:52

Hearken and Switchboard's merger - 1:56

Nathan Schneider's website | Nathan on Twitter - 2:11

Media Enterprise Design Lab - 2:17

"Meetup to the People: How a Zebra could Rise from a Unicorn's Fall" (Medium) - 4:41

"Meetup was a darling of the tech industry. But can it survive WeWork?" (NBC News) - 4:45

ESOP - 10:49

The #WeAreTwitter #Buy Twitter campaign - 20:17

Exit to Community peer learning cohort - 21:50

Sep 08, 2020
Apps Without Code

We're back from our August hiatus! To kick things off, we have a conversation with Tara Reed, the CEO of Apps Without Code. She started an online art advising business without knowing how to code, and that early success led to an entire company and educational program that teaches others how to do the same. Tara talks about her career, the tools she uses, and why she hates the term "non-technical founder."

Show Notes

Selling Sunset on Netflix - 00:42

The Hills - 00:54

BuzzFeed News profile of the reality show producer behind Selling Sunset and The Hills - 1:04

Columbo - 1:30

IMDb TV - 1:40

Wailin discusses her idea for an app to help you choose a streaming provider at the end of this episode - 1:56

Tara Reed on Twitter | LinkedIn - 2:36

Apps Without Code - 2:41

Google Offers - 4:06

"Sources: Groupon rejects Google's $5 billion offer" (story co-written by Wailin in the Chicago Tribune, 2010) - 4:10

Kollecto - 5:05

Strikingly - 6:57

Kollecto on Product Hunt - 8:02

Kollecto on BetaList - 8:03

SurveyGizmo - 9:40

500 Startups - 9:52

Bubble - 11:25

Zapier - 13:13

Tara's TEDx Detroit talk - 17:07

The apps Tara teaches are: Glide | Mighty Networks | Sharetribe | Thinkific | CloudMatch - 17:48

Spark AR - 21:05

Apps Without Code's free class | bootcamp - 24:36

Jek Porkins - 25:23

Wedge Antilles - 25:35

Sep 01, 2020
Rerun - Breaking the Black Box
Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson sparked a national controversy this week when he posted a series of livid tweets about how his wife received a much lower credit limit than he did on their Apple Cards, despite applying with the same financial information. What began as a rant against opaque algorithms turned into a regulatory investigation and more. In this episode, Dr. Ruha Benjamin of Princeton University and entrepreneur Mara Zepeda, co-founder of the XXcelerate Fund and Zebras Unite, talk about how the tech and financial sectors perpetuate systemic inequalities and how to start repairing the damage—or building something more equitable and inclusive from the ground up.
Aug 25, 2020
Rerun - Nevermore, Amazon
In the spring of 2019, Danny Caine, the owner of the Raven Book Store in Lawrence, Kansas, overheard a customer saying she could buy a new hardcover online for $15. Danny took to Twitter to explain the economics of independent bookstores and the thread went viral, putting the 32-year-old small business in the national spotlight. Danny comes on Rework to talk about why his activism and outspoken stance against Amazon haven’t just felt right, but been good for business too.
Aug 18, 2020
Rerun - Mr. DHH Goes to Washington
Basecamp co-founder and Chief Technology Officer David Heinemeier Hansson has been ranting on Twitter about monopolistic practices in Big Tech for a while, and he recently got an unexpected opportunity to air his grievances about Google, Apple, and Facebook in front of a congressional subcommittee. In this episode, David debriefs on his experience and Basecamp’s data analyst, Jane Yang, talks about her work helping David prepare for his appearance.
Aug 11, 2020
The Email That Changed My Life

Basecamp probably wouldn't exist today if not for an email that David Heinemeier Hansson sent Jason Fried in 2001. That correspondence was the beginning of a partnership that produced Basecamp, several books, and most recently HEY, the company's new email service. This episode is our love letter to email. Hear from David and Jason, as well as other artists, writers, and founders about the emails that changed their lives.

Show Notes

HEY - 00:11

Our episodes on how HEY was
...conceived - 00:15
...designed - 00:16
...branded - 00:17
...launched - 00:18

Jason Fried on Twitter | DHH on Twitter - 1:06

The 37signals manifesto - 1:35

Signal v. Noise - 1:58

Saya Hillman on Twitter | Instagram - 4:53

Saya's company, Mac & Cheese Productions - 4:57

Rick Cosgrove - 8:50

Agency EA - 8:54

Samsung Developer Conference - 9:12

Julie Wernau on Twitter - 11:41

Mike McGee on Twitter - 16:26 - 16:32

Neal Sáles-Griffin on Twitter - 16:37

Mike recounted the story of founding Code Academy (later renamed The Starter League) in a series on Medium. Here's Part 1 - 17:58

Nate Otto's website | Instagram - 20:13

Goose Island Born + Raised - 21:28

The mural Nate painted for one of Warby Parker's Chicago stores - 22:32

Liz Fosslien's website | the book she co-authored and illustrated, No Hard Feelings - 23:09

Our episode featuring Liz and her co-author, Mollie West Duffy - 23:13

Aug 04, 2020
Two Weeks

Basecamp released its new email service, HEY, on June 15. It was supposed to be a calm, controlled product launch, but what followed was a period that CEO Jason Fried described as "chaotic, enthralling, (and) horrible." Basecamp got into a public fight with Apple over the HEY iOS app and the customer support team made emergency hires to help with an unprecedented caseload—all during a turbulent time for the world at large. This is the story of those two weeks, in the voices of the people who fixed bugs, answered customer emails, fended off security threats, and pulled off one of the most audacious undertakings in company history.

Show Notes

HEY - 00:30

David Heinemeier Hansson on Twitter - 00:50

Jason Fried on Twitter - 1:22

Kristin on Twitter - 3:21

Javan on Twitter - 3:53

Jason's HEY demo on YouTube - 4:21

HEY's desktop apps - 5:26

Dylan on Twitter - 7:09

Zach on Twitter - 8:37

David's "burn this house down" tweet - 12:03

Protocol's coverage of Apple's rejection - 14:21

Macintosh SE - 16:20

Conor on Twitter - 18:26

Signal v. Noise post written for Juneteenth - 19:34

Lexi on Twitter - 20:54

Jason Fried's open letter to Apple about IAP - 22:09

TechCrunch interview with Phil Schiller - 23:32

David's olive branch tweet - 24:51

HEY for Work - 28:51

Rosa on Twitter - 31:32

Jorge on Twitter - 31:58

Michael on Twitter - 32:33

Jonas on Twitter - 33:00

"Hire When It Hurts" and "Welcome Aboard" are our episodes about Basecamp's hiring and onboarding processes - 36:08

Jason Fried's letter, "Apple, HEY, and the Path Forward" - 40:11

WWDC 2020 - 40:26

A League of their Own clip (you zip it, Doris!) - 41:24

Jeff on Twitter - 41:43

Troy on Twitter - 42:27

Chase on Twitter - 45:48

"The HEY Way" explains the case against Inbox Zero - 46:25

"Office Space," our episode on leaving the Chicago office - 50:12

This Week in Startups episode featuring DHH - 51:20

Basecamp's jobs page - 52:43

Apple vs. HEY - 53:34

Jul 28, 2020
Q and HEY, Part 2

Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a recent livestream session where they answered questions about HEY, the company's new email service. You can listen to Part 1 or watch the entire livestream on YouTube.

Show Notes

Q1: What's the timeframe on new features? - 00:38

HEY for Work - 00:50

Shape Up - 1:13

Apple vs. HEY - 4:33

It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy At Work - 6:07

Q2: How did you get - 7:12

"How we acquired" (Signal v. Noise) - 7:30

Q3: When would you say you've taken on Gmail? - 9:53

Q4: What's the environmental impact of HEY? - 14:14

Data analyst Jane Yang's SvN post on carbon negativity - 15:45

Q5: It's been crazy at work for the last couple weeks. How do you get back to normal? - 15:52

Q6: Now that you have two products, are you concerned with context switching in the future? - 17:38

Q7: What's the problem with "inbox zero?" - 20:04

Q8: How could I possibly move to HEY with 16 years of emails in Gmail? - 24:10

HEY's guide for moving from Gmail  - 24:10

Jul 21, 2020
Q and HEY, Part 1

Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a livestream session where they answered audience questions about Hey, Basecamp's new email service. In Part One, they discuss feature requests, customer support, and plans for hiring. The full Q&A can be viewed on YouTube.

Show Notes - 00:10

Jason Fried on Twitter | DHH on Twitter - 00:24

Jason and David's remote work Q&A, Part 1 and Part 2 - 1:03

Q1: What's your suggestion for managing the Feed? - 1:29

Q2: What are you going to do about signatures? - 5:03

Q3: What's a feature you've gotten the most requests for that you won't bring to HEY? - 6:13

Q4: Who led UI/UX for HEY, and do you do any user research? - 8:48

Q5: What's the intended purpose of the Previously Seen section? - 9:57

Q6: Having support with actual humans for an email service seems unique. Are you planning to lean into that with your marketing? - 11:33

Q7: What's your vision for enterprise HEY adoption? - 13:49

Q8: What about accessibility? - 16:11

Q9: What about recruiting? - 16:45

Q10: Do you recycle email addresses after someone stops paying? - 20:05

Q11: Do you offer monthly subscriptions? - 22:35

Q12: Now that you've launched, is there anything you wish you would have done differently? - 26:07

@heyhey on Twitter - 31:50

Jul 14, 2020
Manos: The Hands of Hey

Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, talks about how Hey's visual brand came to be. He discusses influences from Pixar to Charles and Ray Eames to The Raveonettes, and reflects on what it's like to work as a department of one on such an all-encompassing project.

Show Notes

Manos: The Hands of Fate - 00:04

Mystery Science Theater 3000 - 00:07

Our previous episode "Hey, What's Going On?" with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson giving an overview of Hey - 00:35

Our previous episode "Designing Hey" with Jonas Downey - 00:38

Our previous episode "An Email Account Is Born" with Merissa Dawson, on creating a demo account - 00:40

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 00:58 - 1:08

"Screen emails like you screen calls" - 2:59

"How it works" - 4:25

Toy Story of Terror! - 8:42

Procreate app - 9:27

Charles and Ray Eames - 16:22

A 2003 article about The Raveonettes albums that are written with just three chords and in one key - 21:12

Jul 07, 2020
An Email Account is Born

To show off the features of HEY, Basecamp's new email service, we needed a fully featured and realistic demo account. That meant writing dozens of fictional emails—a task that fell to Merissa of Basecamp's customer support team. She comes on Rework to talk about her epistolary opus.

Show Notes

HEY website | @heyhey on Twitter - 00:22

Team OMG - 1:39

Notes to self feature - 5:32

Clips feature - 5:35

Reply Later feature - 5:42

Screener feature - 5:51

Fitzgerald "Fitz" Grant - 9:13

"'A Star Is Born' and the Enduring Appeal of 'I Just Wanted to Take Another Look At You'" (Film School Rejects) - 9:29

Jun 30, 2020
Designing Hey

Basecamp design lead Jonas Downey was one of the first people to experiment with what would eventually become Hey, Basecamp’s newly launched email service. Jonas comes on Rework to talk about building software for humans, preserving a sense of fun weirdness as a new product evolves, and managing a big launch during a tumultuous time.

Show Notes

Hey - 00:21

Our previous episode about Hey, featuring Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson - 00:27

Apple vs. Hey - 00:40

Jonas Downey on Twitter - 00:56

Prairienet - 1:36

Basecamp’s book on a calm workplace - 19:20

Jun 23, 2020
Hey, What's Going On?

Basecamp has launched Hey, a new email platform with a strong point of view. It's also one of the stupidest things Basecamp has ever attempted. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about the philosophy around time, attention, and privacy that forms the backbone of Hey, why Inbox Zero is a tyrannical scam, and what Hey does differently. 

Show Notes | the Hey manifesto - 00:14

Jason Fried on Twitter - 00:34

DHH on Twitter - 00:48

Jason and Ryan Singer discussed Hey's origins in Highrise in this product strategy Q&A - 3:20

"Highrise is back with Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise) - 3:44

Our previous episode about pixel tracking - 20:04

Our previous episode talking about Superhuman - 24:01

Ian Malcolm's "Your scientists..." clip from Jurassic Park - 30:45

Jun 16, 2020
The Spy Who Emailed Me

On June 15, Basecamp launches a new email service called Hey. One of its features is that it blocks tracking pixels that report back to the sender when and how you read an email. In this episode, Basecamp's marketing team talks about their difficult search for an email newsletter provider that doesn't track subscribers. And Nabiha Syed, president of the new investigative journalism outlet The Markup, talks about their commitment to data minimization—including zero tracking, not even open rates, on their newsletters—and how that affects their relationship with readers.

Show Notes

Basecamp’s newsletter - 2:34

Hey - 3:05

Andy Didorosi on Twitter - 3:29

Farnam Street newsletter - 5:47

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 7:23

Mailchimp's postcard program | Opt out of receiving postcards - 9:21 - 12:34

Nabiha Syed's bio | Twitter - 14:04

The Markup - 14:06

The Markup's privacy policy - 14:28

Nabiha’s letter - 16:27

Martijn de Kuijper on Twitter | Revue - 18:40

Jun 09, 2020
The Bookshop Around the Corner

Andy Hunter launched in January as a platform to help independent bookstores take and fulfill online orders. Shortly afterward, the pandemic forced small businesses to close their physical doors and found itself trying to manage three years of growth in three months. Andy comes on the show for a deep dive into how his business works, monopoly power in the book industry, and what steps Bookshop is taking to make sure growth and success don't compromise their mission.

Show Notes

Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer - 1:27

"Nevermore, Amazon," our episode about The Raven Book Store - 2:06

Andy Hunter on Twitter - 2:44

Bookshop website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:44

Catapult | Counterpoint | Soft Skull Press - 3:28

Lit Hub - 3:32

Ingram - 6:21

Certified B Corporation - 9:25

Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C. - 10:18

Tattered Cover Book Store in Denver, CO - 10:19

Powell’s Books in Portland, OR - 10:20

IndieBound - 13:30

Morgan Entrekin - 15:34

HappyFunCorp - 18:36 - 19:37

Hummingbird Digital Media - 20:16

"Baker & Taylor to Drop Wholesale Book Distribution to Retailers" - 24:56

BuzzFeed article about GrubHub collecting fees from restaurants even when customers call to place orders - 26:05

Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins - 30:23

Astounding by Alec Nevala-Lee (Wailin's husband) - 30:45

Jun 02, 2020
Help Wanted

The pandemic has caused enormous job losses and forced many companies to rethink the nature of work. In this episode, two Stanford students talk about the online resource they built to help fellow students whose summer internships were canceled, and Wildbit CEO Natalie Nagele returns to Rework to discuss the launch of People-First Jobs, a job board that connects seekers with human-centered companies.

Show Notes

Akshaya Dinesh's website | LinkedIn | Twitter - 1:10

Andrew Tan's website | LinkedIn | Twitter - 1:28

Verkada - 3:36

LinkedIn post announcing the mentorship program - 5:36

Remote Students - 8:10

People-First Jobs website | Twitter - 10:17

Wildbit - 10:21

Natalie Nagele on Twitter - 10:30

COVID-19 Resources on People-First Jobs - 17:27

our recent episode about banning makers of employee surveillance technology - 18:53

Kitty Hawk - 20:20

May 26, 2020
Winston Sat At His Computer

A growing number of companies have turned to employee surveillance software to monitor their newly remote workforce. Basecamp, which has taken a hardline stance against surveillance of all kinds, decided to ban makers of this "tattleware" from integrating with our products. Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson comes on the show to talk about how a special "Moral Quandaries" team at the company made the decision and how surveillance systems poison the future of remote work.

Show Notes

Awair air quality monitor - 00:34

A presentation by DHH on "Why Air Quality Matters" - 1:15

DHH on Twitter - 1:55

Basecamp Terms of Service  -2:37

Until the End of the Internet policy - 2:46

Basecamp API - 3:54 - 4:09

Article by Drew Harwell of the Washington Post about employee surveillance - 5:10

REMOTE: Office Not Required by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson - 8:53

The surveillance illustration from REMOTE - 9:00

GitHub repository for Basecamp policies - 14:00

Signal v. Noise post about the new policy - 14:21

Apple's "1984" commercial for the Macintosh - 17:10

May 19, 2020
Bubble Wrap & Prayers

The government may not consider comic book shops, indoor plant stores, and small boutiques "essential," but these businesses are vital to the unique fabric of their neighborhoods and downtowns. Without foot traffic, they're finding new ways to connect with customers and stay afloat, all while navigating supply chain disruptions and e-commerce logistics.

Show Notes

AlleyCat Comics website | Facebook | Instagram - 0:55

Mighty Con - 1:36

"New Comics Delayed Across Industry in Wake of Coronavirus Concerns" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 2:10

Our previous episodes about small businesses and COVID covered fitness studios and family-oriented businesses - 2:37

Hearth & Hammer General Store website | Facebook | Instagram - 3:29

Walden Woods candle - 4:22

The Zen Succulent website | Facebook | Instagram  - 8:00

Modern Terrarium Studio by Megan George - 9:01

Jordan Grace Owens website | collaboration with The Zen Succulent - 10:36

Claire Daniel website | picture of her installation at The Zen Succulent - 11:02

Mad Cave Studios GoFundMe for comic book shops - 13:25

Image Comics announcement on their COVID measures - 13:37

Megan George was able to get a Paycheck Protection Program loan, but most of her fellow women of color business owners were shut out - 16:04

Sex Criminals - 19:31

Moog Theremini - 21:16

May 12, 2020
Living on Hope

We call up our friend and former colleague Esther Lee, who lives with her husband on a 35-foot sailboat named Hope in Jacksonville, Florida. Esther, an "idealist in hiding," talks about how living smaller gives her more space to turn outward and care for others, especially now.

Show Notes

Esther's bio at the Poetry Foundation - 00:25

The Minimalists - 3:30

Sailrite sewing machines - 9:30

eXXpedition - 13:32

eXXpedition's João Pessoa to Barbados leg has been rescheduled to 2022 - 13:45

Sacrificial Metal by Esther Lee - 14:22

Rudolf Laban - 14:52

Wayfinders Now on Instagram | website - 17:55

May 07, 2020
Kids Incorporated

Endless Zoom meetings, being cut off from friends, the widespread cancellation of summer fun, ricocheting between boredom and anxiety—kids have it pretty rough! And it's no picnic for their parents, either. In this episode, businesses built on offering in-person enrichment for children talk about how they're adapting to reach families and stay resilient during this time.

Show Notes

Nancy Mork's biography - 00:47

Fussy Baby Network website | Facebook - 00:50

Erikson Institute - 00:53

Hatch Art Studio website | Instagram - 3:51

Collage Workshop for Kids by Shannon Merenstein - 3:55

Omowale Casselle on Twitter - 5:28

Digital Adventures website - 5:32

Bar Rucci's Art Bar Blog - 13:06

Eric Carle Museum of Picture Book Art - 21:17

Eric Carle's book is The Very Hungry Caterpillar (not The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar like Wailin says) - 21:21

Collage Workshop for Kids on - 21:29

May 05, 2020
BONUS - Breadcamp

Basecampers Nathan Anderson and Joan Stewart talk about their love of baking bread and how to get started if you're a newbie. As Joan says, you just have to believe.

Show Notes

The New York Times chocolate chip cookie recipe, adapted from Jacques Torres  - 00:43

Nathan Anderson on Twitter - 1:00

Nathan attended Artisan Bread Camp, taught by Tom Edwards. Read a Washington Post story about the reporter's experience at the same session (Nathan is briefly mentioned in the article and is in one of the photos.) - 2:00

Bon Appétit YouTube channel - 2:14

Joan Stewart on Twitter - 2:17

"Brad and Claire Make Sourdough Bread" - 2:35

Claire Saffitz on Instagram - 2:39

Bread magazine - 3:00

Recipes for using sourdough starter discard - 5:05

Edna Mode - 7:25

Apr 30, 2020
Product Strategy Q&A with Jason Fried and Ryan Singer

CEO Jason Fried and Head of Strategy Ryan Singer talk about the Shape Up approach to product development that we use at Basecamp. They discuss organizing work in six-week cycles, how to handle disagreement, and how so much of the process boils down to making trade-offs. You can also watch the full video of this Q&A session.

Show Notes

Going Remote Q&A videos on YouTube - 00:57

Basecamp's remote work resources - 1:00

Jason Fried | Ryan Singer on Twitter - 1:09

Hey, Basecamp's forthcoming email product - 1:23

Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 2:17

Q1: How do you go about planning something from scratch? What are the different milestones in the product-planning process? - 4:59

An explainer of six-week cycles - 6:10

An explainer of finding the epicenter from Getting Real, Basecamp's earlier book on product development - 11:50

Q2: How do you decide how far to break down projects? Can you be so granular that you reach a point of diminishing returns? - 13:31

Shape Up chapter on scopes - 16:10

Q3: How do you decide which pitches to execute, and how often do you disagree? - 19:32

Spikeball - 27:55

Q4: How is potential value creation assessed in the betting process? - 27:58

Q5: How do you alert someone about work that needs to be done by them? - 34:45

Q6: How do you do a 6-week cycle for a whole new project? - 37:10

Inverted pyramid - 38:36

Q7: How do you pitch the Shape Up process to someone who’s not technical? - 39:28

Q8: How do you train team members to learn the work process? - 42:28

Q9: How do conversations with customers fit into the shaping and strategy? - 46:22

Q10: What do you do about people who ignore the breadboarding and fat marker techniques? - 50:33

Q11: Is there a utility in using software? - 54:49

Q12: When approaching features like two-factor authentication or encryption, how do you balance what’s most secure with what’s most convenient for users? - 55:22

Q12: How did you decide to work on Hey? What’s the bet and how did you structure the team separate from Basecamp? - 1:03:10

Highrise - 1:03:26

"Highrise is back with Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise ) - 1:07:22

Apr 28, 2020
Going Remote: Kids at Home

Several of Basecamp's working parents talk about (not) getting things done with small children around, navigating responsibilities and feelings with partners, structuring the day, primal screaming, and more. You can also watch the full video replay of this Q&A session.

Show Notes

Going Remote series on YouTube - 00:10

Basecamp's Remote Resources page - 00:39

Question 1: If you’re home with kids under three, how do you work while they’re craving your attention? - 4:00

Going Remote episode about customer support - 6:25

Art for Kids Hub on YouTube - 15:31

Lunch Doodles with children's book author Mo Willems - 15:51

LeVar Burton does #LeVarBurtonReadsLive on his Twitter feed - 15:55

Question 2: How do you navigate tension between partners when one person bears more of the childcare responsibilities? - 19:22

Question 3: What morning habits do you have to keep yourself aligned? - 23:33

Basecamp on Twitter - 27:23

Apr 23, 2020
The Soul of an Entrepreneur

David Sax is the author of the new book The Soul of an Entrepreneur: Work and Life Beyond the Startup Myth. He comes on the show to debunk the Silicon Valley narrative that only a rarefied subset of people can succeed as founders, and shares examples from his book of business owners whose complex relationship with freedom, risk, and success offer a fuller picture of entrepreneurship.

Read David's recent op-ed in the New York Times, "The Coronavirus Is Showing Us Which Entrepreneurs Matter."

Show Notes

David Sax's website | Twitter - 1:16

The Soul of an Entrepreneur: Work and Life Beyond the Startup Myth - 1:21

"At 21, Kylie Jenner Becomes The Youngest Self-Made Billionaire Ever" (Forbes) - 7:05

A 2017 Daily Beast profile of Kris Jenner's mother - 7:21

ESOPs - 17:16

Article by Daniela Papi-Thornton in the Stanford Social Innovation Review about "heropreneurship" - 20:54

Save the Deli by David Sax - 23:40

The Revenge of Analog by David Sax - 23:52

Maxim's May/June 2018 issue featuring Heidi Klum - 24:40

The Soul of an Entrepreneur on - 26:15

Apr 21, 2020
Going Remote: Customer Support

Going Remote is a series of bonus episodes where different Basecampers answer questions about how they do their work remotely. In this episode, Merissa Dawson and Chase Clemons answer questions about providing customer support, including how they talk to angry customers and how they onboard new team members. The full version of their Q&A, including a visual walkthrough of the support team's Basecamp account, can be found on YouTube.

Show Notes

Design lead Jonas Downey's Going Remote episode - 00:18

Basecamp's customer support team - 00:26

Going Remote playlist on YouTube | Full version of Merissa and Chase's session  - 00:39

Question 1: How do you talk to customers who are really angry or not nice? - 00:54

Chase talks more about his experience managing a deli in this Rework episode - 2:41

Question 2: Who hops on the calls with customers, someone from Support or from the Product team? - 4:26

Question 3: It's tough right now. What's something you could tell a support specialist from around the world? - 6:18

Question 4: Any tips or tricks for helping onboard new people in customer support, especially when remote? - 8:54

More detail about the Support team's onboarding process is in this Rework episode - 9:42

Basecamp on Twitter - 13:32

Apr 16, 2020
Work Out From Home

Fitness studios, like many other businesses, had to scramble to change over from in-person to virtual operations almost overnight. In this episode, three business owners in the fitness and wellness industry share their stories of how they've pivoted and how they're continuing to look after their communities' well-being during a difficult time.

Note: After we wrapped editing on this episode, Haji Healing Salon launched two support groups that meet weekly with a clinical psychologist. If you're interested in signing up, click on "Healing Services" on Haji's website.

Show Notes

Arts + Public Life residency program at the University of Chicago - 3:14

Haji Healing Salon website | Instagram - 3:19

"Haji Healing Salon Aims to be 'Oasis and Sanctuary' On Bustling 79th Street in Chatham" (Block Club Chicago) - 4:04

Philly Dance Fitness website | Livestream - 7:22

Take It Off Broadway - 8:43

StreamingVideoProvider - 11:10

Punchpass website - 14:21

Punchpass webinar on getting classes online - 17:04

Hot Yoga Burlington - 18:30

"Zoom Rushes to Improve Privacy for Consumers Flooding Its Service" (New York Times) - 23:06

Apr 14, 2020
Going Remote: Design

We're starting a new series of bonus episodes called Going Remote. We'll have different Basecampers answer questions about how they do their work remotely. In this first episode, design lead Jonas Downey talks about how he and his team collaborate with each other, give feedback, and communicate with their developer colleagues. These episodes are adapted from an ongoing series of livestreamed Q&As, which you can find in their entirety on Basecamp's YouTube channel.

Show Notes

Video of Jonas' Q&A | YouTube playlist of all Q&As - 00:33

Jonas Downey on Twitter - 00:39

Question #1: I’m planning on doing design thinking sessions for groups. How should I channel the team aspect in a virtual call with 20 to 30 people? - 4:25

Question #2: What tools do you use to replace whiteboarding and Post-It sessions? - 6:33

Reflector app - 7:31

Question #3: It seems like most communication you do runs through Basecamp. How do you communicate the intricacies of designs to engineers, and what’s your workflow? - 8:51

Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's live walkthrough of the company's Basecamp account - 8:54

Question #4: Do you use version control tools like Abstract? - 12:46

Question #5: In the meeting-averse culture of Basecamp, how does design work get reviewed and approved? - 16:23

Question #6: Do you use any design tools, or do you design in the browser? - 17:44

Question #7: Is it required at Basecamp for a designer to know how to code? - 18:48

Question #8: How many designers do you have at Basecamp? - 20:21

Question #9: I'm interested in the dynamic between designers and product managers. Do you do project management yourself using tools like Jira or Trello? - 21:07

Question #10: How do you balance between designer and manager roles? - 23:00

Basecamp on Twitter - 25:35

Apr 09, 2020
Phone a Friend

We're back from hiatus! In this episode, we sit down with Quaker theologian and small business owner Wess Daniels, the author of the book Resisting Empire: The Book of Revelation as Resistance. He talks about the value of silence; reshaping systems of money and power; and building community during a time of struggle.

Show Notes

Wess Daniels on Twitter | His blog, Gathering In Light - 1:19

Resisting Empire: The Book of Revelation as Resistance (Barclay Press) - 1:27

Friends Center at Guilford College - 2:11

Fireweed Coffee Co - 2:29

Wess's blog post on holding a family meeting - 4:10

Poor People's Campaign - 15:48

Apr 07, 2020
Remote Work: Extreme Edition (Rerun)

We place a long-distance phone call to Antarctica to chat with Kathrin Mallot, an astrophysicist who works at the IceCube Neutrino Observatory in the South Pole. In this episode, Kathrin talks about preparing for a work assignment in a super remote part of the world; practicing self-care during the punishing Antarctic winter; getting along with coworkers that you also live with in close quarters; frozen nose hairs, snacks, Internet access, and more! This episode was originally run in February 2019.

Show Notes

The IceCube website - 00:46

What is a neutrino? (Scientific American) - 1:13

SNOLAB in Canada is an example of a neutrino observatory located in an old mine - 1:58

Emsisoft - 2:48

Skynet satellite (and the other Skynet) - 4:38

Mt. Erebus in Antarctica is the southernmost active volcano on the planet - 14:00

The Thing (the 1982 version by John Carpenter) - 19:28

The IceCube website has an entire section about living at the South Pole - 26:53

The defibrillator scene in The Thing (Warning: VERY SCARY! And gross!) - 27:39

The blood test scene in The Thing (Warning: ALSO VERY SCARY AND GROSS) - 27:50

Mar 31, 2020
Remote Work Q&A, Part 2

This is the second part of a two-hour live Q&A on remote work that Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held last week. Part 2 covers questions about interruptions, mental health, hardware and software tools, and building culture as a remote company. You can find Part 1 on our feed in your podcast app or on our website. If you'd like to watch the Q&A session in its entirety, you can do that on Periscope. You can also check out Basecamp's Guide to Internal Communication.

Show Notes

Question 1: How do we get aligned with coworkers without interrupting them through chat/phone calls and while respecting their time? - 4:03

Pings (direct messages) in Basecamp - 6:34

Hey is Basecamp's upcoming email product - 7:23

"Interruption Is Not Collaboration," our episode where we discuss Office Hours - 8:45

It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy At Work - 10:48

Question 2: How would you encourage leaders to prepare (or how has Basecamp prepared) for an eventuality where large numbers of workers will be sick for extended periods of time? Adding more buffers to time estimates? - 14:15

Question 3: How can we best nudge our bosses in the right direction with this stuff? - 18:39

The Guardian published an article that mentions DHH's efforts to shame companies whose employees aren't allowed to work from home - 18:57

David's tweet asking for stories of companies - 19:08

Denver Post article about Charter Communications' remote work policy - 19:41

REMOTE: Office Not Required - 21:23

Question 4: Where do you put ideas that are mostly about code? Do you have discussions in GitHub for that? - 25:06

Tuple - 26:58

Question 5: What can you do for taking care of the emotional well-being of the work community that’s going to be remote for weeks in the middle of such unprecedented crises? - 27:32

You can send reports of companies to - 30:36

Question 6: How do you each spend your typical days at Basecamp? How do you balance team collaboration and meetings with more solo, “deep” work? - 34:33

"Wait, other people can take your time?" (Signal v. Noise) - 41:36

Question 7: How do you set up a culture and understand cultural fit when building a fully remote organization? - 41:54

"Introducing the 5x12" (Signal v. Noise) - 43:48

"The books I read in 2019" (Signal v. Noise) - 45:10

The Basecamp Employee Handbook - 46:51

Question 8: How do you help first-time WFH employees to ensure we are getting the most out of them? - 48:38

Question 9: How do you manage boredom, anxiety, and isolation while working remote alone? - 51:25

Question 10: What technologies (hardware included) are you excited about (outside of Basecamp) to help support remote? - 55:45

A photo gallery of Basecamp employees' work-from-home setups - 57:30

"Big Brother at the Office," our episode about employers surveilling their workers - 59:36

REMOTE on IndieBound (currently on backorder) - 1:01:44

Mar 25, 2020
The Distance: Steeped In History

Nom Wah Tea Parlor is New York Chinatown’s oldest dim sum restaurant. For decades, it served Cantonese dumplings and rolls in the traditional way, from trolleys pushed around the restaurant. When Wilson Tang took over Nom Wah in 2011, he switched from trolleys to menus with pictures and started serving dim sum through dinner. He also opened new locations that broadened Nom Wah’s repertoire beyond dim sum. These were big changes for a restaurant that opened in 1920, but Wilson saw them as measures to secure Nom Wah’s future for its next century in business. 

This episode first aired on The Distance in May 2017. Nom Wah has reduced operations due to COVID-19, but you can support the restaurant by purchasing merchandise:

Mar 24, 2020
Remote Work Q&A, Part 1

Earlier this week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a live Q&A about remote work. We're splitting the session into two episodes. Part 1 covers questions about video calls, brainstorming, setting priorities, and good management during a time of stressful transition. If you'd like to watch the Q&A session in its entirety, you can do that on Periscope. You can also check out Basecamp's Guide to Internal Communication.

Show Notes

Jason and David's book, REMOTE: Office Not Required - 00:55

The full session on Periscope - 1:00

Question 1: In a workplace with a mix of local and remote workers, what are some good strategies for making the remote workers feel more connected and not left out of office events? - 8:12

Basecamp's Automatic Check-ins feature - 9:25

Question 2: How do you qualify employees and gain trust if you don’t meet in person? - 14:14

Question 3: How do you handle the transition in a company that hasn't been very remote until now and can't make a quick switch to writing more? - 18:30

A Guide to Managing Remote Teams by Claire Lew, CEO of Know Your Team - 19:40

Question 4: How do you handle video meetings with more than 20 people? - 23:44

"Is group chat making you sweat?" (Signal v. Noise) - 30:00

Question 5: How do you prioritize tasks? What's your productivity system or non-system? - 30:14

Shape Up, Basecamp's book about product development - 30:50

Question 6: Do you believe any developer/designer/product manager can work remotely? - 36:09

Question 7: How would you host a brainstorming meeting? - 38:17

Question 8: How do you properly handle large layoffs of more than 10 people? - 40:51

"Stanley's Abruptly Closes After 52 Years of Selling Affordable Produce, Longtime Workers Caught Off Guard" (Block Club Chicago) - 44:30

Question 9: What are the key things I can do as a manager of a small team to make remote working a great experience within my team, even if our company culture is still catching up after being forced to go full remote? - 46:02

Mar 20, 2020
The (Social) Distance

Basecamp is a remote company, so we're less disrupted by the current pandemic than many other businesses, but we're still taking steps to keep folks safe. Jason Fried talks about canceling the company's April meetup and closing the Chicago office. Rework will be taking a few weeks off so we can get set up with recording studios at home. In the meantime, if you're working from home for the first time, we'd love to hear your stories! Please get in touch at (you can write an email or send us a voice memo) or leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.

Show Notes

Tearing the heart out of Saturday night - 00:06

Joe Bob Briggs' series, The Last Drive-In - 0:14

Joe Bob Briggs: How Rednecks Saved Hollywood - 00:27

Our recent episode about leaving the Chicago office - 1:10

RailsConf - 5:59

The Distance - 8:57

Wailin learned about fomites from this 2013 New Yorker article and now she won't stop talking about them - 10:46

Mar 17, 2020
Work, Rest, and What You Will

We at Basecamp love to preach the virtues of the 8-hour work day, but where did it come from? (Hint: Not from Henry Ford!) Labor historian Emily Twarog explains the origins of the 8-hour work day and why it was so short-lived in the U.S.

Show Notes

"This CEO thinks it's crazy to work more than 40 hours a week" (CNN) - 00:34

"Extreme Capitalism with Jason Calacanis," the episode that credits Henry Ford with the 8-hour work day - 1:04

"Did the 8-hour day and the 40-hour week come from Henry Ford, or labor unions?" (Politifact) - 1:06

Emily Twarog | Twitter - 1:10

"The Mill Girls of Lowell" (National Park Service) - 1:54

The Lowell Offering - 3:04

"Fire of 1871" (Encyclopedia of Chicago) - 3:51

A history of McCormick's reaper works factory - 4:59

An overview of the Haymarket Riot - 5:24

A history of the Bread and Roses Strike of 1912 - 5:54

The U.S. Department of Labor's history of the Fair Labor Standards Act - 11:02

The National Labor Relations Board's FAQs on the National Labor Relations Act - 11:06

Fight for $15 - 29:17

"She was Instacart's biggest cheerleader. Now she's leading a worker revolt" (Washington Post) - 29:29

Emily Twarog's book, Politics of the Pantry: Housewives, Food, and Consumer Protest in Twentieth-Century America - 31:25

Beaten Down, Worked Up: The Past, Present, and Future of American Labor by Steven Greenhouse - 31:36

On the Clock: What Low-Wage Work Did to Me and How It Drives America Insane by Emily Guendelsberger - 31:45

Mar 10, 2020
Rug Life

Jarred Lustgarten left a Wall Street career to start a rug-cleaning business with $600 in borrowed money and a stack of flyers. A decade later, J.L. Carpet & Upholstery is profitable and Jarred has a very visible reminder on his hands of his commitment to his vocation.

Show Notes

Irin Carmon's website | Twitter - 00:40

J.L. Carpet & Upholstery - 1:23

Irin's tweet about Jarred's tattoo | Jarred's tattoo - 1:50

New York Daily News columnist Harry Siegel's tweet in response - 2:18

New York Rug Life - 2:49

Lisa Wagner's website, Rug Chick - 15:52

Park Slope Parents - 17:39

Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg by Irin Carmon and Shana Knizhnik - 26:32

Mar 03, 2020
Delete Your Account

Basecamp the app is over 15 years old, which means Basecamp the company is responsible for safeguarding more than a decade's worth of customer data—including 370 terabytes of data stored in non-active accounts. In this episode, Basecamp data analyst Jane Yang talks about a big, ongoing project at the company to clean up those inactive accounts and give former customers what we all deserve: the right to be forgotten on the Internet. Two Basecamp alums also return to share the history of the company's data incineration protocol.

Show Notes

Jamis Buck on Twitter - 2:05

Jason Fried's tribute to Jamis - 2:22

Eileen Uchitelle's website | Twitter - 3:15

the tweet by @FiloSottile about data being uranium, not gold - 7:04

our episode about the credential stuffing attack - 13:04

blog post explaining how Basecamp notified customers about the credential stuffing - 13:32

Basecamp's cancellation policy - 21:46

Basecamp Personal - 21:53

Tom Anderson from MySpace is on Instagram now and his profile photo should look familiar - 23:48

Mazes for Programmers by Jamis Buck - 26:24

Basil & Fabian by Jamis Buck - 26:25

Feb 25, 2020
Extreme Capitalism with Jason Calacanis

Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson and entrepreneur and angel investor Jason Calacanis debate the gig economy, democratic socialism, and whether the American dream is dead. The conversation in this episode is adapted from a longer interview that can be found in full at This Week in Startups.

Feb 20, 2020
Poetry at Work

Some of our most famous poets had day jobs: Robert Burns was a tax collector; William Carlos Williams was a doctor; Audre Lorde was a librarian and professor. Poetry has a lot to say about work and can serve as a meeting place, a provocative memo, or a break from the daily grind. In this episode, we hear from the creator of Poetry At Work Day and the editor of Poetry magazine about the power of verse in the workplace. And some Basecamp colleagues share poems that are meaningful to them.

Show Notes

Days of the Year - 00:08

The origins of "Be A Pineapple" - 00:55

Poetry At Work Day 2020 - 2:00

Take Your Poet to Work Day  - 2:18

Laura Barkat's website | Twitter - 2:26

"The African Chief" by William Cullen Bryant - 2:45

Tweetspeak Poetry - 3:06

"Wasp" by Tony Hoagland - 4:12

Don Share | Poetry magazine - 5:04

"The Instruction Manual" by John Ashbery - 5:22

"Toads" by Philip Larkin - 6:22

Our recent episode about moving out of Basecamp's current office - 6:57

"My First Memory (of Librarians)" by Nikki Giovanni - 7:06

"Evangeline" by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow - 8:08

Tweetspeak Poetry's Daily Poem email - 11:58

The Poetry Foundation's Audio Poem of the Day - 12:05

The Slowdown podcast - 12:11

"On Clothes" by Kahlil Gibran - 13:15

"This Is Just To Say" by William Carlos Williams - 14:41

"This is just to say we have explained the plum jokes in your Twitter feed" (Vox) - 14:56

Lotus-eaters (Wikipedia) - 15:43

"The Lotos-eaters" by Alfred, Lord Tennyson - 15:59

"A Ritual to Read to Each Other" by William E. Stafford - 16:31

Kat Gaskin on Instagram - 22:02

"A Blessing For One Who Is Exhausted" by John O'Donohue - 22:19

Feb 18, 2020
Try Everything

Every year for the past decade, Mert Iseri has chosen a new skill to learn. This annual challenge has taken him from a magicians' club to chess tournaments where he's competed against eight-year-olds. In this episode, Mert talks about chasing the joy of being challenged just the right amount and what he's learned from being an enthusiastic beginner.

Show Notes

Mert Iseri on Twitter - 2:49

Basecamp's Continuing Education Allowance benefit - 3:22

SwipeSense - 4:45

The Game of the Century - 8:24

Chess Grandmaster Maurice Ashley - 9:15

Pioneers Palaces - 10:03

Garry Kasparov's seminar on MasterClass - 10:14

Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi - 14:49

Lillstreet Art Center - 21:44

It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson - 24:33

Chicago Magic Lounge - 28:59

Chicago Magic Round Table - 30:00

Free Solo - 32:56

Max Maven performs B'Wave - 38:52

Feb 11, 2020
The Road Out Of Startupland

Sahil Lavingia once believed his startup was headed for unicorn status, but his journey through Silicon Valley—the viral launch on Hacker News, $8 million in venture capital, the glowing press—led to a very different outcome. In this episode, Sahil reflects on life outside the literal and figurative confines of Silicon Valley, and the satisfaction he gets from building a sustainable business.

Show Notes

"Is Venture Capital Worth the Risk?" (The New Yorker) - 00:51

"The deal Jeff Bezos got on Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise) - 1:55

Sahil Lavingia on Twitter | Gumroad - 2:05

Vibram shoes - 6:00

Jon Wheatley founded DailyBooth, a YCombinator company - 7:22

"Pinterest Has Already Pinned Down $10M At A $40M Valuation" (TechCrunch) - 7:31

Bebo is a now-defunct social networking company - 7:54

"SoftBank's Vision Fund Is a Graveyard of Broken Tech Startups" (Vice) - 9:47

"Gumroad Gets $7 Million Series A From Kleiner Perkins For Indie E-Payment Platform" (TechCrunch) - 11:43

Basecamp Personal - 15:45

Her (film) on Wikipedia - 21:01

The 4-Hour Workweek - 29:10

Sahil's big essay on his experience, "Reflecting on My Failure to Build a Billion-Dollar Company" (Medium) - 32:58

Feb 04, 2020
Mr. DHH Goes to Washington

Basecamp co-founder and Chief Technology Officer David Heinemeier Hansson has been ranting on Twitter about monopolistic practices in Big Tech for a while, and he recently got an unexpected opportunity to air his grievances about Google, Apple, and Facebook in front of a congressional subcommittee. In this episode, David debriefs on his experience and Basecamp's data analyst, Jane Yang, talks about her work helping David prepare for his appearance.

Show Notes

Judiciary Committee page about the hearing, including a video of the event - 1:37

"Pick A Fight," our episode about why David enjoys arguing on Twitter - 2:38

"Open Source Beyond the Market," David's 2019 RailsConf keynote - 4:59

"The Google Ads Shakedown," our episode about our displeasure with the way Google handles ads in search results - 5:51

"100% Facebook-Free," our episode about pulling Basecamp from Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp - 6:42

Previous subcommittee hearings on "Online Platforms and Market Power" - 8:01

David's prepared remarks - 8:35

Congressman Ken Buck - 11:25

The other witnesses were Patrick Spence of Sonos, David Barnett of PopSockets, and Kirsten Daru of Tile - 12:13

"PopSockets CEO says Amazon uses 'bullying with a smile' to press for lower prices" (CNBC) - 13:02

"Everything we know about Apple's Tile-like item tracking device" (9to5Mac) - 19:22

"Apple's Flashlight Is Why We Can't Fund Nice Dumb Things" (TechCrunch) - 19:40

The story of Steve Jobs calling Dropbox a "feature" is recounted in this 2011 Fortune article - 20:23

"Here's how we can break up Big Tech" (Elizabeth Warren) - 26:29

Goldman Sachs estimated that Google paid Apple $9.46 billion in 2018 to be the default search engine - 26:50

The European Union's landmark antitrust case against Microsoft required it to offer a choice of browsers to Windows users - 27:08

NerdWallet's explainer of the Glass-Steagall Act - 27:24

A New York Times explainer of the Overton window - 31:13

Jan 28, 2020
You Never Forget George Pappageorge

Basecamp CEO Jason Fried is back in the studio with an update on the company's Chicago headquarters. Basecamp will be leaving its office this summer after a 10-year run, and Jason is looking at a number of options—including a space that will bring him full circle with one of his original 37signals partners.

Show Notes

"Office Space," our last episode about the fate of the Chicago office - 00:45

Brininstool+Lynch, the architects behind Basecamp's office - 6:54

Carlos Segura, who co-founded 37signals with Jason and Ernest Kim - 13:13

Coudal Partners is the Chicago design firm that makes Field Notes - 20:49

Chicago artist Nate Otto has worked with Basecamp for many years - 21:17

You never forget George Pappageorge - 21:33

Jan 21, 2020
Less Business, More d20s

Matthew Vincent, a member of Basecamp's Ops team, spoke at Nomad City 2019 about life as a remote worker. Close your eyes and pretend you're in the Canary Islands as you listen to this audio version of Matthew's talk.

Show Notes

Matthew Vincent's Nomad City speaker bio - 00:30

Nomad City - 00:34

d20 System (Wikipedia) - 1:23

"Thirteen Months of Working, Sleeping, and Eating at the Googleplex" (Bloomberg Businessweek, July 2015) - 2:21

"Which Googler holds the record for living at Google HQ?" (Quora) - 2:23

Ben Discoe's LinkedIn - 3:06

Entry in Basecamp's handbook about the Continuing Education Allowance - 7:18

The tweet that Matthew references - 9:00

Automatic Check-ins - 14:00

Basecamp's Employee Handbook - 21:36

Shape Up by Ryan Singer, Basecamp's guide to product development - 21:48

All of Basecamp's books - 22:03

Videos for Nomad City 2019 talks - 28:45

Jan 14, 2020
Welcome Aboard

Welcome back! We're kicking off the new year with an episode full of practical advice about onboarding new employees. Ashley Bowe from Basecamp's customer support team talks about how they welcome and train new colleagues, and leadership coach Karen Catlin of Better Allies shares advice and examples of what companies can do to build more inclusive cultures.

Show Notes

Basecamp's Support team - 00:47

The Better Allies Approach to Hiring by Karen Catlin - 1:03

"Hire When It Hurts," our episode about hiring - 2:51

Entry in Basecamp's handbook about summer hours - 6:44

"I've never had a goal" (Signal v. Noise) - 7:36

Shaun talks about not eating lunch for a week in "Workaholics Aren't Heroes" - 9:03

Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson write about the joy of missing out in this Quartz essay - 14:39

Karen Catlin on Twitter | her website | Better Allies on Twitter | Better Allies website - 19:28

The Uber leather jacket debacle was chronicled by Susan J. Fowler in her now-famous essay about working at Uber - 22:43

Jan 07, 2020
BONUS - The Knight Before Christmas

Listeners may remember that last year Wailin watched ALL of the holiday rom-coms and decided to share them with me on our ill-advised holiday bonus episode. Well, we're bringing it back! This year Wailin made Shaun watch The Knight Before Christmas. It's got magic, chivalry, time travel, wide-legged pants, and an inexplicable post-credit scene. Is the holiday bonus episode still ill-advised? Yes. But, is it fun? Also, yes! Happy Holidays to all of our listeners and we'll be back in 2020 with more stories.

Dec 24, 2019
Are The Kids Alright?

In this anxious era of bullying, teen depression, and school shootings, tech companies are selling software to schools and parents that make big promises about keeping kids secure by monitoring what they say and write online. But these apps demand disturbing trade-offs in the name of safety. In this episode, we dive into the normative, privacy, and transparency implications of this software for both schools and families, and examine how the rush to fix societal problems with technology can amplify harm to young people while enriching companies that stand to profit from increased surveillance.

Show Notes

Gennie Gebhart's bio | Twitter - 00:38

Electronic Frontier Foundation - 1:02

The EFF's 2017 report on student privacy (PDF) - 1:12

"Facial Recognition Tech Comes to Schools and Summer Camps" (Wall Street Journal) - 1:32

"Heal the Internet," our episode on removing tracking pixels from emails - 2:06

"Big Brother at the Office," our episode on workplace surveillance - 2:10

Previous episodes on Big Tech include "100% Facebook-Free," "The Google Ads Shakedown," and "Nevermore, Amazon" - 3:19

"Breaking the Black Box," our episode about algorithmic bias - 3:24

Caroline Haskins on Twitter | her stories for Vice | her stories for BuzzFeed News - 3:51

BuzzFeed News' series on schools and surveillance - 4:04

"Gaggle Knows Everything About Teens And Kids In School" (BuzzFeed News) - 4:06

Gaggle - 4:08

Bark - 7:05

This Vice article takes a closer look at Bark's self-reported safety statistics in North and South Carolina - 7:29

ManagedMethods - 8:31

Bark's FAQs about its Parent Portal - 8:57

Ryan Stanley's op-ed for the Juneau Empire - 10:14

"School computer monitoring program makes botched debut" (Juneau Empire) - 11:10

"Schools make adjustments to Bark" (KINY in Juneau) - 11:15

More anecdotes about false positives can be found in this Guardian piece about school surveillance - 12:25

"Cruel and Unusual Punishment: The Shame of Three Strikes Laws" (Rolling Stone) - 13:22

Sarah Roberts, an assistant professor at UCLA - 13:50

Marika Pfefferkorn's LinkedIn profile - 14:21

"When School Feels Like Prison" (The Atlantic) - 14:38

"St. Paul, Ramsey County to end youth data-sharing agreement after withering criticism" (Pioneer Press) - 14:44

The Minnesota Department of Human Rights' FAQ about discriminatory suspensions in public schools - 15:10

"Black kids are way more likely to be punished in school than white kids, study finds" (Vox) - 15:20

The Brennan Center for Justice's report on school spending on social media monitoring - 15:45

"Do metal detectors and X-ray machines belong in schools?" (Washington Post) - 16:42

"School Officer: A Job With Many Roles and One Big Responsibility" (New York Times)  - 16:46

"School apps track students from classroom to bathroom, and parents are struggling to keep up" (Washington Post) - 16:52

"The algorithms that detect hate speech online are biased against black people" (Vox) - 17:15

"For Immigrant Students, a New Worry: A Call to ICE" (New York Times) - 17:34

EndTAB - 22:39

"Cameras, surveillance, and the sinister tech behind domestic abuse" - 22:54

"A Majority of Teens Have Experienced Some Form of Cyberbullying" (Pew Research) - 23:24

Apple's Family Sharing feature | Find My device - 24:02

Life360 - 24:14

The Coalition Against Stalkerware - 25:16

"FTC Brings First Case Against Developers of 'Stalking' Apps" (press release) - 25:24

This report by software company Malwarebytes summarizes how parental monitoring apps work the same, on a technological level, as stalkerware - 26:05

"Are Minnetonka Public Schools secretly monitoring students' social media posts?" (MinnPost) - 29:37

"Will my child know that Bark is installed?" (Bark FAQ) - 30:28

ScreenGuide - 31:49

"Cambridge Analytica: how did it turn clicks into votes?" (The Guardian) - 34:15

In Maryland, a parent got his local school district to conduct a "data deletion week" - 34:45

Have I Been Pwned - 36:23

"What does the panopticon mean in the age of digital surveillance?" (The Guardian) - 38:21

Dignity in Schools | Counselors Not Cops - 40:14

Surveillance Self-Defense (EFF) - 40:22

Dec 17, 2019
Lab Week

Get out your Bunsen burner! It's time to do some experiments. In this episode, we talk to two businesses that aren't afraid to try new things. First, the three founders of The Mad Optimist, a soap company in Indiana, talk about letting customers choose what they pay for their products. Then Natalie Nagele, the co-founder and CEO of software company Wildbit, talks about an ongoing experiment with four-day work weeks and what she's discovered about productivity, happiness, and deep work.

Show Notes

The Mad Optimist website | Facebook | Instagram - 00:45

You can find The Mad Optimist's live revenue number in their Humanifesto under "We practice radical transparency" - 9:43

Natalie Nagele on Twitter - 16:51

Wildbit website - 16:53

Basecamp's entry on Summer Hours in the company handbook - 16:57

Deep Work by Cal Newport - 18:54

Dec 10, 2019
Venture Capital and Control with Dave Teare

Dave Teare is the co-founder and official "heart and soul" of 1Password, which recently raised $200 million in its first round of venture capital. Basecamp is a longtime happy customer of 1Password and also a longtime critic of venture capital, so the funding announcement led to some back-and-forth on Twitter between Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Dave Teare. In this episode, DHH and Dave get on the phone to hash out their feelings about venture capital and what this funding round means for 1Password's future.

Show Notes

"Open Source and Power with Matt Mullenweg," our episode featuring a phone call between DHH and Automattic's Matt Mullenweg - 00:34

DHH's tweet about Automattic's funding round - 00:49

Dave Teare on Twitter | 1Password - 00:56

1Password's blog post announcing the funding round - 1:02

DHH's tweet about 1Password's funding announcement - 1:04

"A love letter to DHH and others concerned about our recent funding announcement" - 1:30

"Bezos Expeditions invests in 37signals" (Signal v. Noise) - 1:55

1Password co-founder Roustem Karimov on Twitter - 3:10

DHH's Ruby on Rails demo about building a blog engine in 15 minutes - 3:30

"Conceal, don't feel" is a lyric from Frozen's Let It Go - 14:14

"Inside WeWork's week from hell: How the mass layoffs went down" (CNN) - 19:16

"The day I became a millionaire" (Signal v. Noise) - 21:22

"It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work" - 25:31

Apple's Differential Privacy policy (PDF) - 26:25

Our Incredible Journey (Tumblr) - 31:42

"The Mess at Meetup" (Gizmodo) - 32:08

"Meetup wants to charge users $2 just to RSVP for events — and some are furious" (The Verge) - 32:18

"Patreon now offers creators 3 plans, with fees ranging from 5-12%" (VentureBeat) - 32:45

An irate forum post about Dropbox's new storage plan - 33:12

"GitHub is trying to quell employee anger over its ICE contract. It's not going well" (LA Times) - 34:55

"The deal Jeff Bezos got on Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise) - 39:20

"How to Fly a Horse" by Kevin Ashton (Wikipedia) - 41:00

Arun Mathew on Twitter - 43:10

"Patagonia Is Refusing To Sell Its Iconic Power Vests To Some Financial Firms" (BuzzFeed) - 47:22

Getting Real - 49:45

Jeff Shiner's LinkedIn profile - 58:18

Dec 03, 2019
Calm in the Political Storm

Workplace cultures in politics and tech share many similarities: Overwork is glorified; long hours are the norm; employees are expected to respond to communication instantly, no matter the day or time; and those that opt out are seen as lacking hustle or ceding ground to competitors. Marty Santalucia, a political consultant in Pennsylvania, wanted to do things differently. In this episode, he talks about applying calm work principles to an industry that's known for the opposite dynamic.

Show Notes

NPR's Up First podcast - 00:51

FiveThirtyEight's Politics podcast - 00:55

Dan Sinker's website | Twitter - 1:15 - 1:21

Marty Santalucia on Twitter - 2:55

MFStrategies website | Twitter - 2:58

"Sanders Campaign, Workers Ratify Union Contract" (NPR) - 22:23

Bonus link! The New York Times asked 2020 Democratic candidates how much sleep they get a night and filmed the responses.

Nov 26, 2019
BONUS - Basecamp: This Time It's Personal

Basecamp has a long history of experimenting with "freemium" models and recently launched its most generous free plan yet: Basecamp Personal. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about the debate and data analysis that went into the launch, what makes this a little scary, and why it's healthy for a business to experiment.

Show Notes

"Launch: Basecamp Gets Personal" (Signal v. Noise) - 00:13

37signals' 2004 announcement about the launch of Basecamp - 1:44

Basecamp's announcement about closing Backpack to new signups - 2:18

"Launch: Basecamp 3" (Signal v. Noise) - 2:31

Our episode about finding an SEO consultant - 7:10

Our episode introducing Basecamp's new head of marketing - 7:18

Basecamp's ace Support team - 23:46

Our episode about the Apple Card controversy and algorithmic bias - 25:06

Basecamp Personal on Product Hunt - 26:10

Basecamp's "Until the End of the Internet" policy - 26:53

Nov 22, 2019
Spending in the Clouds

Basecamp has cut back its reliance on Amazon and Google, but there's one area where it's tough to find alternatives to Big Tech: cloud services. Even so, there are ways to cut spending on this $3 million annual expense while keeping the company's apps running smoothly. In this episode, Blake Stoddard on Basecamp's Ops team talks about how he volunteered to look for savings on cloud services and really delivered—to the tune of over a half-million dollars.

Show Notes

Blake Stoddard on Twitter - 1:27

AWS Lambda - 4:45

The Reddit hug of death is also known as the Slashdot effect - 4:55

Maybe Roxane Gay can save us from our cord-cutting dystopia - 15:49

Nov 19, 2019
BONUS - Breaking the Black Box

Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson sparked a national controversy this week when he posted a series of livid tweets about how his wife received a much lower credit limit than he did on their Apple Cards, despite applying with the same financial information. What began as a rant against opaque algorithms turned into a regulatory investigation and more. In this episode, Dr. Ruha Benjamin of Princeton University and entrepreneur Mara Zepeda, co-founder of the XXcelerate Fund and Zebras Unite, talk about how the tech and financial sectors perpetuate systemic inequalities and how to start repairing the damage—or building something more equitable and inclusive from the ground up.

Show Notes

Apple Card - 1:31

DHH's Twitter thread - 1:53

Steve Wozniak's response - 1:58

The New York Department of Financial Services' announcement of its investigation into Goldman Sachs - 2:11

"About the Apple Card" (Jamie Heinemeier Hansson) - 2:28

Ruha Benjamin's website | Twitter - 2:57

Race After Technology by Ruha Benjamin - 2:59

University of Michigan article about the failures of the state's MiDAS system - 7:31

"Racial bias in a medical algorithm favors white patients over sicker black patients" (Washington Post) - 8:18

"Biased bots: Artificial-intelligence systems echo human prejudices" (Princeton University) - 12:40

"Amazon scraps secret AI recruiting tool that showed bias against women" (Reuters) - 14:15

Ruha Benjamin's Resources - 15:29

Joy Buolamwini on Twitter - 16:52

"Atlanta Asks Google Whether It Targeted Black Homeless People" (NYT) - 17:40

Tuskegee Study, 1932-1972 (CDC) - 18:35

Atlantic article about J. Marion Sims and his experiments on enslaved women - 18:51

NYT article about China's use of facial recognition technology to oppress the Uighur minority - 20:10

"Somerville Bans Government Use Of Facial Recognition Tech" (WBUR) - 20:38

"Can you make AI fairer than a judge? Play our courtroom algorithm game" (MIT Technology Review) - 22:31

"Brooklyn students hold walkout in protest of Facebook-designed online program" (New York Post) - 23:55

Data for Black Lives - 26:25

"St. Paul, Ramsey County to end youth data-sharing agreement after withering criticism" (Pioneer Press) - 26:58

Mara Zepeda's website - 30:20

Mara Zepeda's tweet - 31:00

Mara's company, Switchboard - 30:39

Business for a Better Portland | Zebras Unite | XXcelerate Fund - 30:47

"Where Are the Start-Ups? Loss of Dynamism Is Impeding Growth" (NYT, 2018) - 33:21

"Funding for Female Founders Stalled at 2.2% of VC Dollars in 2018" (Fortune) - 33:42

Portland Business Journal article on "capital chasm" for black entrepreneurs - 34:37

"2014: An Important Anniversary for Women and Credit" (NerdWallet) - 36:54

Washington Post op-ed on redlining and other historical factors contributing to the racial wealth gap - 40:26

"First Women's Bank would be Chicago's first bank startup in 12 years" (Crain's Chicago Business) - 42:52

The Equal Opportunity Credit Act - 43:06

Colorado Lending Source - 43:41

"Here's Why So Many Americans Feel Cheated By Their Student Loans" (BuzzFeed News) - 44:10

"Why Women-Owned Startups Are a Better Bet" (Boston Consulting Group) - 44:50

Kauffman Foundation - 46:02

Jason Fried's episode on Zebracast - 49:26

Sen. Ron Wyden's PROGRESS Act - 52:38

America's New Business Plan (PDF) - 53:40

The Verge article about the proposed Algorithm Accountability Act - 54:15

Nov 15, 2019
Big Brother at the Office

Jason Meller - 00:25

"What is SSL?" - 1:13

This is Outback Steakhouse's page for the Bloomin' Onion, which is categorized as an "Aussie-tizer." Yes, that's what Outback calls appetizers. I cannot un-know this fact and now I pass it to you. - 2:43

"At an Outback Steakhouse Franchise, Surveillance Blooms" (Wired) - 2:51

"Presto Launches Computer Vision Product for Real-Time Restaurant Operations Insights" (Presto press release) - 3:18

"The Employer-Surveillance State" (The Atlantic) - 3:40

Kolide - 5:45

Basecamp's security overview with a mention of Shipshape (PDF) - 20:54

"Introducing Netflix Stethoscope" (The Netflix Tech Blog) - 20:58

Nov 12, 2019
Rework Mailbag 5

Simulacra and Simulation by Jean Baudrillard - 2:57

Max Temkin is a Chicagoan and a co-creator of Cards Against Humanity - 4:01

Little Free Library - 4:04

Maverick by Ricardo Semler - 4:48

Berkshire Hathaway shareholder letters by Warren Buffett - 5:27

Amazon's 2018 shareholder letter by Jeff Bezos - 5:38

Listen to our previous episodes about hiring a director of marketing, "In the Market for a Marketer" and "Meet Andy" - 13:02

Nov 05, 2019
A Hosty Retreat
Oct 29, 2019
Meet Andy
Oct 22, 2019
In the Market for a Marketer

"Hire When It Hurts," our previous episode about hiring - 00:57

"Farewell, Happy Camper," our episode about rebranding Basecamp - 1:51

A Signal v. Noise post by Jason about design challenges for job candidates - 4:26

Detroit Bus Co. - 11:17

Oct 15, 2019
Nevermore, Amazon

She Said: Breaking the Sexual Harassment Story That Helped Ignite a Movement by Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey ( - 00:40

Playing at the World: A History of Simulating Wars, People and Fantastic Adventures, from Chess to Role-Playing Games by Jon Peterson ( - 1:14

"Independent Women," our previous podcast's episode about Women & Children First bookstore - 1:31

"Heal the Internet," our episode where David Heinemeier Hansson endorsed IndieBound - 2:00

Danny Caine's website - 2:37

The Raven Book Store's website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:40

The Raven's viral Twitter thread from April 2019 - 6:46

"Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit for 2018" (Yahoo Finance) - 10:10

Books Are Magic - 11:00

Caitlin Doughty - 13:17

"Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale sequel escapes from tight secrecy" (The Guardian) - 14:46

The Raven's Twitter thread about the embargo on The Testaments - 16:36

The huge demand for Michelle Obama's memoir affected printing capacity for Basecamp cofounders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's book, which came out in the fall 2018. We covered those issues in this episode - 19:19

Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat by Samin Nosrat - 19:28

The Raven's Twitter thread on bestsellers - 20:23

Quoth the Raven newsletter - 20:30

Paradise Cafe Cookbook by Missy McCoy - 21:24

El Dorado Freddy's, Danny Caine's forthcoming book of poetry - 23:38

The Nickel Boys by Colson Whitehead - 24:38

Ducks, Newburyport by Lucy Ellmann - 25:18

The Instructions by Adam Levin - 26:33

Wailin's husband read William Gass' The Tunnel so you don't have to - 28:22

Oct 08, 2019
Open Source and Power with Matt Mullenweg
Oct 01, 2019
Heal the Internet

Mike Davidson's blog post on Superhuman, "Superhuman is Spying on You" - 00:13

Mike Davidson's tweet about Superhuman - 00:35

"Marking the end of pixel trackers in Basecamp emails" and "Let's stop shaking people down for their email addresses" (Signal v. Noise) - 00:57

"You can heal the internet" (Signal v. Noise) - 1:18

The EU's official website about GDPR - 11:00

"California Passes Sweeping Law to Protect Online Privacy" (New York Times) - 11:08

Basecamp stopped reimbursing employees for Uber rides in 2017. DHH elaborates on that decision in our episode "Take A Stand" - 15:26

IndieBound - 16:37

DuckDuckGo - 17:45

"Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg says the 'future is private'" (The Verge) - 21:46

"Facebook Has Watched You Browse The Web For Years. And No, 'Clear History' Won't Really Stop It" (BuzzFeed News) - 22:15

Our episode on becoming 100% Facebook Free - 22:28

"Mister Gotcha," a four-panel cartoon by Matt Bors - 22:55

A lavina is an avalanche - 26:00

The U.S. Federal Trade Commission's page about the Equifax data breach - 29:21

"Apple apologizes for listening to Siri conversations" (CNBC) - 30:30

Sep 24, 2019
Slow Fashion

A GQ profile of Japan's Kapital Denim - 1:26

Pure Blue jeans - 1:44

Meghan Markle - 2:39

For a great peek into the denim industry and its environmental impact, we recommend this episode of the Articles of Interest podcast - 2:57

David Hieatt - 3:18

Hiut Denim | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter - 3:20

A 2002 BBC story about the closure of the Dewhirst jeans plant in Cardigan - 3:58

Howies - 4:20

A selvedge denim explainer - 5:25

A story in the Independent about Meghan Markle wearing Hiut's jeans - 13:56

Denim Breaker Club - 17:52

No Wash Club - 21:46

Do Purpose: Why Brands With a Purpose Do Better and Matter More by David Hieatt - 24:35

The DO Lectures - 24:42

Sep 17, 2019
Farewell, Happy Camper
1108 - 00:19

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 00:29

"Connecting the dots: How we put a smile on the Basecamp logo" (Signal v. Noise, October 2015) - 1:22

You can see the 37signals logo in the upper right corner of this website - 3:48

37signals changed its name to Basecamp in 2014 - 4:20 

Jonathan Van Ness - 5:23

Garmin's BaseCamp - 6:51

The original 37signals manifesto - 8:40

Pentagram - 11:35

UnderConsideration's review of the new logo - 14:40

Sep 10, 2019
BONUS - The Google Ads Shakedown

Jason's tweet - 00:18

"Six Hours of Phone Calls," our episode about hiring an SEO consultant - 00:44

Adam Stoddard, Basecamp's marketing designer - 2:17

CNBC's story on Jason's tweet - 3:35

CNN story on Burger King's mobile app promotion that trolled McDonald's - 10:18

Sep 05, 2019
The Cult of Overwork

Ty Fujimura on Twitter - 00:52

Ty's Medium essay, "The Cult of Overwork (And How to Avoid It)" - 00:54

Cantilever website - 1:10

Cal Newport's website - 8:47

"The Cult of Overwork," James Surowiecki's New Yorker piece - 22:56

Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken - 25:54 (Wailin would like to say that she describes the circus trick incorrectly: The rider actually mounts a moving horse before diving off the platform. Wailin would also like to say that she corrected herself on mic but Shaun cut that part.)

Sep 03, 2019
BONUS - 37signals Podcast - Q&A with Jason and David

We're taking off the month of August! During our hiatus, we'll be playing some vintage episodes of the 37signals Podcast, a show that Basecamp ran from 2009-2011 (and then forgot all about until Wailin came across the show during an unrelated Google search). In this episode, Basecamp (then 37signals) co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson answer questions from Signal v. Noise readers about the company's affiliate program, staying motivated, playing the stock market, and more.

We'll be back with new episodes of Rework next week!

Aug 27, 2019
BONUS - 37signals Podcast - Making People Pay

We're taking off the month of August! During our hiatus, we'll be playing some vintage episodes of the 37signals Podcast, a show that Basecamp ran from 2009-2011 (and then forgot all about until Wailin came across the show during an unrelated Google search). In this episode, Basecamp (then 37signals) co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about when to give something away and when to charge.

Aug 20, 2019
BONUS - 37signals Podcast - Valuation Tales

We're taking off the month of August! During our hiatus, we'll be playing some vintage episodes of the 37signals Podcast, a show that Basecamp ran from 2009-2011 (and then forgot all about until Wailin came across the show during an unrelated Google search). In this episode, Basecamp (then 37signals) co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss a satirical press release they wrote to skewer overblown tech company valuations. That leads to a broader discussion about investment, exits, and serial entrepreneurship.

Aug 13, 2019
No Half Measures

Our previous two episodes, Shape Up and Shape Up Roundtable - 00:37

Welcome Industries website | Twitter | Instagram - 1:16

Pam's bio at Northwestern University - 1:31

Brandon Williams' website - 3:31

Umbra - 3:39

Brandon's original idea for Float | Umbra product page - 3:54

Kickstarter for the cork bag - 5:23

Kickstarter for the photo frame - 5:56

Kickstarter for the measuring cups - 6:52

Most funded Kickstarter campaigns - 7:31

Yanko Design's Instagram - 13:01

International Home + Housewares Show - 13:53

Janler Corporation - 14:41

The cups are made of a plastic called Tritan - 18:58

Crazing is cracking on the surface of an object - 19:07

MoMA Design Store - 22:35

Welcome Industries page to purchase the cups - 23:48

Drink those claws - 27:19

Wailin's explanation of "Hot Girl Summer" is mortifyingly inaccurate, so read this explainer instead - 27:28

Aug 06, 2019
Shape Up Roundtable
Jul 30, 2019
Shape Up with Ryan Singer

Books by Basecamp - 00:13

Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 00:17

Ryan on Twitter - 00:19

Breadboard on Wikipedia and in Shape Up - 6:30

Forrest M. Mims III on Wikipedia - 7:00

"Planning is Guessing," our episode featuring Jason Fried on six-week cycles (his segment starts at 10:03). See also his Signal v. Noise post, "What six weeks of work looks like" - 13:20

"Bets, not Backlogs," a chapter in Shape Up - 16:17

The section on appetite in Shape Up - 17:13

The section on the circuit breaker in Shape Up - 19:16

Jul 23, 2019
Hire When It Hurts

Big Integer, our episode about the outage - 3:56

DHH's posts on subsequent outages - 3:59

"Basecamp is hiring a Head of Marketing" (Signal v. Noise) - 6:15

archive of past talks by Basecampers - 6:29

Books by Basecamp - 6:30

Six Hours of Phone Calls, our episode about looking for an SEO consultant to help with Basecamp's Google ranking - 6:46

Basecamp Support - 8:28

"Basecamp is hiring Customer Support Representatives" (SvN) - 8:38

"We're hiring a Director of Operations" (SvN) - 9:19

"Basecamp is hiring a Senior Programmer" (SvN) - 11:12

Workable - 14:38

Hiring Is Not Hazing, our episode about code reviews and other aspects of tech interviews - 20:00

Know Your Team, our episode about the company formerly known as the product Know Your Company - 29:25

"Why work doesn't happen at work," Jason Fried's 2010 TEDxMidwest talk - 31:27

Jul 16, 2019
Last Week with Jason Fried: Six Hours of Phone Calls

Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 00:45

Jason's tweet asking for SEO consultant recommendations - 1:36

For more on design challenges as part of the hiring process, check out our episode "Hiring Is Not Hazing" - 4:12

Jul 09, 2019
The Open Office

A peek inside Basecamp's office in Chicago - 00:21

"The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea" (Signal v. Noise) - 00:34

"Library Rules: How to make an open office plan work" (Signal v. Noise) - 00:43

Tommy George on Twitter - 1:30

YouVersion Bible app - 1:31

Zemana - 13:39

Jul 02, 2019
Long-Time Snacker, First-Time Caller

Nikki Sylianteng on Twitter - 00:34

"Thanks to Popular Demand, Planters Cheez Balls and Cheez Curls Are Back" (Kraft Heinz press release) - 2:54

Nikki's tweets about eating Cheez Curls - 3:24

Jun 25, 2019
We Love the Subs

Jonas Downey on Twitter - 00:08

Quiznos website - 00:21

"We Love the Subs" commercial - 00:46

Joel Veitch's site, Rathergood - 3:04

Tarsier on Wikipedia - 4:29

"We Like the Moon" video - 5:27

Ty Harper's website - 5:45

The Martin Agency website - 5:49

Kerry Feuerman's website - 6:30

Quiznos coupon commercial - 15:57

Quiznos Huns commercial - 16:00

REGO Restaurant Group on LinkedIn - 21:51

"Where's the Shop? Cliff Freeman Slips Into History Books" (AdAge) - 30:22


Jun 18, 2019
Open Source Beyond the Market

This is a lightly edited version of a keynote address Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson delivered at RailsConf 2019 about "open source, markets, debts, purpose, and no less than the meaning of life." David also sits down with Shaun to talk briefly about how he approached this keynote differently than past talks.

Jun 11, 2019
How Buffer Meets Up

Buffer's website - 1:24

Carolyn Kopprasch on Twitter - 1:45

Buffer CEO Joel Gascoigne on Twitter - 11:32

Buffer's Open blog - 22:59

"Remote Team Meetups: Here's What Works For Us" - 23:08

Jun 04, 2019
James Glazebrook at Support Driven Expo Europe 2019

In April, Basecamp Support team member James Glazebrook gave a talk at Support Driven Expo Europe about Everyone On Support. It's an all-hands program where Basecamp employees rotate through a day of working in customer service. James noticed the system—while well-intentioned—wasn't working properly, and set out to fix it. And that, as James himself might say, is pretty metal.

May 28, 2019
Rework Mailbag 4

If you have a question you'd like answered on the next Mailbag, leave us a voicemail at (708) 628-7850!

May 21, 2019
DHH on The Heartbeat Podcast

To listen to more of The Heartbeat Podcast, visit or look for the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

May 14, 2019
Know Your Team

Claire Lew on Twitter / Know Your Team website — 00:15

The Heartbeat Podcast — 00:34

Know Your Team's "About Us" page — 1:04

"Building Know Your Company" (Signal v. Noise) — 8:04

"How we put together a simple deal to spin off Know Your Company" (Signal v. Noise) — 12:31

"Want to be a better manager? Work as a restaurant hostess" (Know Your Team blog) — 10:55

Daniel Lopes on Twitter — 21:13

The Watercooler — 21:40

"Big news: Know Your Company is now Know Your Team" (Know Your Team blog) — 24:43

May 07, 2019
Last Week with Jason Fried: Office Space

We're introducing a new segment called Last Week with Jason Fried, where Basecamp's CEO talks about a task or concern that recently fell on his plate. In this inaugural episode, Jason talks about how the end of the company's lease on its Chicago office leaves him with a big decision on how to design a space for a mostly remote workforce and whether Basecamp needs an office at all. Meanwhile, all work and no play makes Shaun a dull boy.

Apr 30, 2019
Unplugged from the Matrix

Our 2017 episode, "Can You Sell Water? Part 2" - 00:29

The Institute for Justice Clinic on Entrepreneurship at the University of Chicago - 00:37

The study "The Growth, Scope, and Spatial Distribution of People With Felony Records in the United States, 1948–2010" was published in the October 2017 issue of Demography - 3:23

Microsoft made $16,005 in revenues its first year - 5:31

Wikipedia article on ichthys - 9:22

" Puts Onus on Families to Check Caregivers’ Backgrounds—With Sometimes Tragic Outcomes" (Wall Street Journal, March 2019) - 12:42

"103 Uber drivers accused of sexual assault or abuse" (CNN, April 2018) - 12:44

KENTECH - 12:48

Apr 23, 2019
Job Scam

We're introducing a new segment called Check-Ins, where we talk to folks at Basecamp about their answers to recurring questions that get asked of everyone here. Recently, Jeremy Daer on our Security, Infrastructure, and Performance team dealt with an incident where an Internet scammer was fraudulently posing as a Basecamp recruiter to collect personal information from job seekers. We hear from Jeremy about how this scam works and from Shanae Dykes on Basecamp's Support team about how to keep yourself safe while looking for remote job opportunities.

Apr 18, 2019
Subscription Hostages

The DHH tweet that started it all - 00:36

Wailin's tweet about the Chicago Tribune - 2:23

Laura Hazard Owen on Twitter - 2:55

NiemanLab - 3:34

Consumer Federation of California - 4:21

California Senate Bill 313, which former Governor Jerry Brown signed into law in 2017 - 5:40

California News Publishers Association - 6:31

The New York Times' cancellation screen - 9:36

The Wall Street Journal's cancellation policy - 9:43

The Washington Post's cancellation policy - 9:57

Pete Mortensen on Twitter - 10:12

Matter Ventures (which shut down in late 2018) - 10:18

Jen Sabella on Twitter - 14:54

Block Club Chicago - 14:59

"Billionaire Owner Shuts Down DNAinfo, Gothamist Sites A Week After Workers Unionize" (NPR) - 15:09

Apr 09, 2019
Did You Order the Code Red?

Read David Heinemeier Hansson's blog post and Jeremy's follow-up post on the mass-login attack.

Our episode on the Big Integer outage - 00:41

The big Code Red moment starts at 3:06 of this clip but c'mon, just watch the whole thing - 00:48

Jim Mackenzie on Twitter - 1:15

Background on the data breaches at Marriott, Equifax, and Yahoo - 1:53

Jeremy Daer on Twitter - 2:10

"It's a Unix system!" - 7:24

Have I Been Pwned? - 13:47

1Password, LastPass, Dashlane - 14:52

"Clever girl" - 17:24

"I've got the same combination on my luggage!" - 17:29

Mar 26, 2019
BONUS - Ruby on Rails

In 2004, Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson released a framework called Ruby on Rails that has since been used by over 1.2 million web applications including Twitter, Airbnb, Hulu, and, of course, Basecamp. In this bonus episode of Rework, David talks about creativity, finding a passion, and how writing Ruby changed the way he thinks about programming.

Mar 19, 2019
Hiring Is Not Hazing

Hello, Mallory - 00:20

The Baby-Sitters Club - 00:40

Aja Hammerly's website - 2:18

Aja's post, "There Is No Perfect Interview" - 2:22

Aja's tweets on hiring from November 2018 - 7:24

A blog post by Basecamp CEO Jason Fried that talks about design challenges - 14:20

Aja on Twitter - 23:15

For further reading from Basecamp on this topic, Jim Mackenzie on the Support team has written some great Signal v. Noise posts about hiring: "Interview or Interrogation?" and "Under Pressure"

Mar 12, 2019
Remote Work: Extreme Edition

The IceCube website - 00:46

What is a neutrino? (Scientific American) - 1:13

SNOLAB in Canada is an example of a neutrino observatory located in an old mine - 1:58

When neutrinos collide with other particles, a blue light is emitted. This is what IceCube detects. Read more about this blue light and IceCube in this article from the National Science Foundation - 2:13

Emsisoft - 2:48

Skynet satellite (and the other Skynet) - 4:38

Mt. Erebus in Antarctica is the southernmost active volcano on the planet - 14:00

The Thing (the 1982 version by John Carpenter) - 19:28

The IceCube website has an entire section about living at the South Pole - 26:53

The defibrillator scene in The Thing (Warning: VERY SCARY! And gross!) - 27:39

The blood test scene in The Thing (Warning: ALSO VERY SCARY AND GROSS) - 27:50

Feb 26, 2019
No Hard Feelings

"Happy Pacifists," our episode about violent rhetoric (and its opposite) in business - 00:24

"Big Integer," our episode about how Basecamp managed a major outage - 00:30

"Spark Joy with DHH," our episode about applying Marie Kondo's tidying-up principles to business - 00:38

Liz Fosslien's website. Mollie West Duffy's website. Their joint website. - 1:22

No Hard Feelings: The Secret Power of Embracing Emotions At Work - 1:28

IDEO - 1:54

Humu - 2:08

Gretchen Rubin - 12:09

The Shultz Hour, named after former Secretary of State George Shultz - 19:25

Liz and Mollie on Instagram - 35:42

The Book Table - 36:00

"Independent Women," the episode of our previous podcast about Women & Children First bookstore - 36:03

Feb 12, 2019

Signal v. Noise - 1:49

Episode 01, "Sell Your By-products" - 2:00

"Signal v. Noise moves to Medium" - 2:37

Jason Fried and Adam Stoddard - 2:48

Medium's changed policy on custom domains - 3:55

Medium's membership program - 6:10

A Vox article on how Tumblr's ban on adult content negatively affects the broader community - 7:30

History of WordPress - 9:55

A Quartz article on how WordPress employees work remotely - 10:03

Matt Mullenweg, founder of WordPress - 10:15

"Medium has been great for us" - 15:51

An Atlantic article about seasonally attired porch geese - 20:00

Jan 29, 2019
BONUS - Spark Joy with DHH

Marie Kondo’s official website - 00:14

Marie Kondo's interpreter is Marie Iida and here's a Quartz interview with her - 00:28

Author Courtney Milan's Twitter thread on Marie Kondo's misunderstood advice about books - 00:49

Everything Wailin learned about arguing on social media she learned from DHH in the "Pick A Fight" episode of Rework - 1:00

The Life Changing-Magic of Tidying Up - 1:12

Extreme Programming Explained by Kent Beck - 6:42

The history of the We Work Remotely job board is written up in the last entry of this page of the Basecamp handbook - 9:06

Basecamp decided to sunset Highrise in 2018. Read Jason's note on the Highrise website - 9:32

Jan 22, 2019
Big Integer

On Thursday, November 8, Basecamp 3 went down for almost five hours. It was the worst outage to hit the company in a decade and a stress test of Basecamp's practices around internal communication, customer support, and calm work. Today's episode goes inside the company on November 8 to see how the outage unfolded.

Show Notes

Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's most recent book, It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - 1:41

Basecamp's Support team - 6:03

Basecamp's Status page - 6:40

DHH's timeline from November 8 and his post-mortem, published on Signal v. Noise - 6:46

Our episode on "How to Say You're Sorry" - 15:57

Jan 15, 2019
BONUS - Happy New Year

We tried to record an episode, but there were more important things to talk about. See you in 2019 with more episodes of REWORK.

Jan 01, 2019
BONUS - 100% Facebook-Free

After yet another round of revelations about Facebook's use of customer data, Basecamp has decided to become 100% Facebook-free. We've actually been off Facebook proper for a while, but on Wednesday we decided to remove the company from Instagram and WhatsApp as well. This is a conversation with Basecamp's CTO, David Heinemeier Hansson, about making that decision and why he thinks you should follow in Basecamp's footsteps.

Dec 21, 2018
BONUS - Rename

On the last episode of Rework, we talked about the dangers of using violent language in a business context. We've had to grapple with other kinds of problematic language at Basecamp as well. In this mini bonus episode, Shaun talks to programmer Jeremy Daer about shedding harmful terms for database relationships that persist in the industry.

Dec 19, 2018
Happy Pacifists

The Brigham Young/Utah "Holy War" game is so famous it gets its own Wikipedia entry - 00:03

Steve Jobs' quote about going "thermonuclear" against Android was first revealed in Walter Isaacson's biography - 1:18

Joshua Gubler's website - 1:49

David Wood's website - 1:57

Joshua Gubler and David's research, conducted with Nathan Kalmoe of George Washington University, was published in the Journal of Business Ethics in September 2015 - 3:20

Planet Money did a story about The Art of War's popularity in business culture - 9:33

If you have anxiety about late-stage capitalism like Wailin does, you should read this article by Alexis Madrigal - 11:08

The Center for Nonviolent Communication - 13:07

Check out Elizabeth's previous appearance on Rework - 13:25

Dec 18, 2018
Sometimes It's Crazy At Work

Books by Basecamp - 00:18

Harper Business - 3:52

Adam Stoddard, Basecamp's marketing designer and the designer of the new book's cover - 4:01

Jason Zimdars, Basecamp designer and book illustrator - 5:26

Mike Rohde, the illustrator for Rework and Remote - 5:45

Charles Darwin on Daily Routines, a blog that became the book Daily Rituals: How Artists Work, edited by Mason Currey. The book was an important reference for the illustrations. - 7:05

Jason Zimdars' Signal v. Noise post on how he illustrated the new book - 18:20

You can watch the entire pilot of Small Wonder on YouTube, or you can be like Shaun and staunchly refuse because you find the entire thing creepy, which is also fair. - 10:20

The Economist review of the book (you might hit a paywall) - 13:49

Blade Runner 2049 baseline test - 25:55

You can read David's write-up of the book launch debacle on Signal v. Noise.

Dec 04, 2018
The Worst Performance Review

Rachel Ernst, VP of employee success at Reflektive - 00:41

Reflektive’s #MyWorstPerformanceReview contest and the winners - 2:12

Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson’s classic screed against fundraising and startup culture - 7:00

Reflektive’s press release on its $60M Series C - 7:32

Watch a real-life design review with Conor and Basecamp CEO Jason Fried - 13:46

Hey, did you know we at Basecamp haaaaaaate meetings with the fire of a thousand suns? - 19:24

Ralph Vaughan Williams Symphony No. 3 (Pastoral), 4th Movement - 26:00

Nov 20, 2018
Rework Mailbag 3

Behold the wonder of raclette - 00:59

Looking for a calm company while job searching - 2:33

How a business that deals with clients can work more calmly - 4:24

The 37signals manifesto - 6:03

Applying calm principles in a school setting - 8:40

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say most schools start too early - 10:24

Alfie Kohn’s website. DHH recommends Punished by Rewards and The Myth of the Spoiled Child - 11:50

How to start a calm company when there’s limited runway - 13:51

Listen to our previous episode, “You Need Less Than You Think“ - 16:11

How Basecamp recovers from periods of non-calm - 19:05

Healthy ways for co-founders or partners to disagree - 22:56

J.P. Graziano, the Italian sub shop where Shaun buys lunch almost every day. We also featured the business on this episode of our previous podcast. - 28:19

Nov 06, 2018
The Myth of the Overnight Sensation

Our previous episode - 0:11

It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson - 0:19

Rework by Jason Fried and DHH - 0:37

The story of Squatty Potty - 1:13

This Unicorn Changed the Way I Poop, the original viral video - 1:28

Oct 23, 2018
It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 2

We’re taking your questions for David and Jason to answer in an upcoming mailbag episode! Leave us a voicemail at (708) 628-7850 and you'll be entered into a drawing for an autographed copy of It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work.

Listen to the first part of this interview - 0:23

Jason and David’s previous books are Rework and Remote - 3:37

Jason and David will be speaking at the Wall Street Journal's one-day Future of Work conference in New York on October 17 (check out their official WSJ stipple portraits!) - 6:50

Oct 16, 2018
It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 1

We’re taking your questions for David and Jason to answer in an upcoming mailbag episode! Leave us a voicemail at (708) 628-7850 and you'll be entered into a drawing for an autographed copy of It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work.

It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - 1:05

Jason and David’s previous books were Rework and Remote - 1:12

Check out our previous mailbag episodes, here, here, and here - 1:55

”Marissa Mayer: You, Too, Can Work 130 Hours a Week If You Plan When to Take a Shit“ (GIzmodo) - 7:53

The quotation ”It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it“ is attributed to Upton Sinclair - 9:12

Basecamp’s policies on vacation time and summer hours can be found in the company handbook - 15:56

Work Can Wait - 19:57

Oct 09, 2018
Farewell, Noah
Sep 25, 2018
The Bean Machine

Take A Break, our last regular episode before sabbatical - 2:47

Why we only work 4 days a week during summer (Signal v. Noise) - 3:02

Carcassonne in southern France is a UNESCO World Heritage site - 4:11

It is also a board game that Shaun enjoys! - 4:14

Wailin thought she discovered Aperol spritzes in Europe but it turns out she was just brainwashed by a liquor brand and has no original ideas or tastes of her own. She still likes to drink Aperol spritzes. - 4:36

All about the viol da gamba - 4:58

It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work, due out October 2 - 5:38

The Bean Machine on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram - 6:53

Sep 11, 2018
BONUS - The Distance - The Business Cycle

Shaun and Wailin are still on vacation, but we have another of our favorite episodes from our previous podcast, The Distance, which was about long-running businesses. Wailin's pick is this story of America's last bicycle manufacturer.

Aug 21, 2018
BONUS - The Distance - Diamonds Are Forever

Shaun and Wailin are on vacation! During our hiatus, we're bringing you our favorite stories from our previous podcast, The Distance, which was about long-running businesses. Shaun's pick is this story of a 90-year-old jewelry store and how running a business can be a true labor of love.

Aug 07, 2018
Take a Break

Rework made its podcast debut with an episode called "Sell Your By-products" in August 2017 — 00:37

A list of employee benefits at Basecamp — 00:51

Adeline Koh is the founder of Sabbatical Beauty and you'll also find her in the company's very friendly and welcoming Facebook group — 1:45

Adeline's essay on starting a business while on academic sabbatical —1:59

A primer on Korean beauty — 4:20

Jason Fried — 14:08

Jason and DHH's upcoming book about calm company practices — 16:19

Soapwalla — 23:01

Rachel Winard's original cleanser and moisturizer are still sold today — 24:13

Rachel's blog post about taking sabbatical — 24:34

Jul 24, 2018
BONUS - Out in the Open

In a bonus conversation with Sarah Park of MeetEdgar, she talks about making the company handbook public and why they have a policy of opening up meetings and conversations to everyone.

Jul 17, 2018
Temperature Check

One of our colleagues on the Basecamp customer support team, Jayne Ogilvie, wanted to find out how other tech companies with remote staffs handle issues like communication, career development, and hiring. Jayne sent out a survey and got back a wealth of information and ideas about how other teams work together. In this episode, we hear more from two participating companies: Sarah Park of MeetEdgar talks about how their staff gathers internal feedback on important decisions, and Patrick Filler and Anitra St. Hilaire of Harvest talk about taking on the challenge of making their company more diverse and inclusive.

Jul 10, 2018
Go Behind the Scenes

A famous guy once said, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" But he was a grifter. In fact, going behind the scenes—whether it's a factory tour or cooking show—can be a valuable experience for both visitors and guides. In this episode, we crash a middle school field trip to the Method soap factory on Chicago's South Side. We also hear from Basecamp's CEO Jason Fried on his YouTube series on making design decisions and from the managing partners of Zingerman's Bakehouse in Ann Arbor, Michigan on why they don't believe in secrets.

Jun 26, 2018
You Need Less Than You Think

Who needs a fancy office when you can work out of a dingy food court? Who needs fancy equipment when you can buy what you need at Walmart? Who needs to hire an SEO specialist? What does an SEO specialist do, anyway? (A question for another episode, or maybe another podcast altogether.) On this episode, three very different companies—a fashion brand, a company that sells fresh salads from vending machines, and an auto detailing shop—discuss their humble beginnings and offer practical advice about being resourceful and staying lean.

Jun 12, 2018
But Wait, There's More!

Do you struggle with finding the right podcast? Are you tired of true crime shows and hosts trying to sell you a mattress? Introducing Rework, a podcast that's free of both murder and midroll ads. When you listen to this episode of Rework, you'll learn the fascinating history of infomercials and hear sales tips from experts like the marketing guru who made the Thighmaster a '90s sensation. But wait, there's more! Stick around after the episode to hear Wailin explain the premise of Three's Company to Shaun. Subscribe to Rework today!

May 29, 2018
Rework Mailbag 2

Alison Green of Ask A Manager, whom we featured in our previous episode, gives her advice on a couple of questions too. Topics covered:

  • Communicating changes in a corporate culture when the workforce is remote (0:40)
  • Being transparent about why a change is made when the news is unequivocally negative (3:25)
  • Setting up a system where conflicts and problems can be escalated and resolved (9:28)
  • Managing feelings of loneliness and isolation as a remote worker (12:15)

If you'd like to submit a question for Jason and David to answer on a future mailbag episode, call us at (708) 628-7850 or email us at

May 15, 2018
Ask A Manager
May 01, 2018
BONUS - Culturati Summit 2018

A video of this discussion is also available.

We're still taking your calls for an upcoming mailbag episode where Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson will answer your questions about workplace communication. We're also bringing in a special guest, Alison Green of Ask A Manager, to give advice! Call us at (708) 628-7850 or email us at

Further Reading:

Dean Carter on Patagonia's family-affirming policies.

The President Stole Your Land, Patagonia's campaign against the Trump administration's move to shrink Bears Ears National Monument and Grand Staircase-Escalante in Utah.

2016 article in Outside about Patagonia donating all of its Black Friday sales to environmental groups.

The Obama Foundation's 2018 Fellows.

Culturati Summit.

The Culture Book, Culturati's "practical guide to building incredible company cultures."

Apr 17, 2018
BONUS - When Chris Met Mark

Chris Ruder, the CEO of Spikeball, shares a story about meeting Shark Tank investor Mark Cuban at a bar and committing a photo faux pas (a faux-to pas?), a year before he taped his Shark Tank appearance.

Apr 10, 2018
Life After Shark Tank

This episode features:

Melissa Butler of The Lip Bar, a company that makes vegan and cruelty-free lipstick in vibrant shades that work on a broad range of skin tones. Watch a clip of their episode.

Chris Ruder of Spikeball, the maker of a game that's a mix of volleyball and four square. Ruder played Spikeball as a child and later revived the brand after it had become obsolete.

Joe Moore of First Defense Nasal Screens, which patented an adhesive filter that sticks on top of the nostrils to prevent allergens from entering the body.

A friendly reminder that we are collecting your workplace communication questions for Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson. If you're seeking advice on how to talk to your boss, your employee, or a colleague, leave us a voicemail at (708) 628-7850 or email us at

Apr 03, 2018
How to Say You're Sorry

"You know I try, but I don't do too well with apologies," Justin Bieber once sang. You're not the only one with this problem, Justin! Why is saying sorry so difficult, especially for businesses? In this episode: A veteran tracker of apologies looks at what's changed (and what hasn't) in public apology culture; Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson recounts a time when the company had to say sorry; and two founders make a product to help tech companies apologize to their customers.

Mar 20, 2018
Update: Please Don't Like This

Jason Fried talks about designing an alternative to Basecamp's Applause feature that is subtle yet expressive, and distinct from the kinds of reactions and feedback mechanisms used on social media platforms. (If you missed our previous episode on the debate over the Applause feature, go back and listen!)

Mar 13, 2018
Please Don't Like This

At Basecamp, we're in the midst of a debate over an Applause feature that was designed to improve communication but might be stoking unwanted anxiety. In this episode, CTO David Heinemeier Hansson and iOS designer Tara Mann present different sides of the Applause debate and explore the ways behavior patterns in social media are trickling into the workplace. We also look at how world-famous pianist Glenn Gould challenged norms around performance, audiences, and applause.

Mar 06, 2018
BONUS - Dan Miller on Outsourcing

Dan Miller of Mulberrys Garment Care talks outsourcing, bootstrapping, and growing slowly in some leftover bits we couldn't quite fit into episode 14.

Feb 21, 2018
Meetings Are Toxic

You'll laugh; you'll cry; you'll gnash your teeth in recognition as you hear the stories of horrible meetings we collected for this episode. Meetings are one of the worst kinds of workplace interruptions. They're held too frequently, run too long, and involve more people than necessary. Also in this episode: A Basecamp programmer gives advice on rethinking the culture of meetings and the story of one very cringeworthy meeting with a surprising outcome.

Feb 20, 2018
Interruption is Not Collaboration

Hey, are you busy? Can you listen to this real quick? It's an episode about interruptions in the workplace. You'll hear from academic researchers, Basecamp's head data wrangler, and the CEO of a remote company about how they've tackled not just the disruptions themselves, but also the workplace culture that allows those intrusions to flourish.

Feb 06, 2018
BONUS - Jason Fried On To-Do Notifications

Special bonus episode where Jason Fried discusses some of the thinking that goes into making a very small change to the to-do feature in Basecamp.

Jan 26, 2018
Don't Be Fake

Hey, are you crushing it? It seems like everyone is constantly crushing it in the business world. But maybe it would be better if we were honest about our flaws, talked like ourselves, and aimed to be genuine instead of super polished. In this episode: A Basecamp customer support representative shares tips on writing emails like a real human being; an inherently artificial industry gets a dose of reality; and two startup founders try an experiment in radical transparency to save their business.

Jan 23, 2018
BONUS - The Million Dollar Mistake

For more details, read his blog post about it:

Jan 16, 2018
Start Making Something

New year, new you! If you started 2018 with an idea for a product, business, or creative pursuit, now is the time to start making something. In this episode: A tabletop game designer finds that sometimes, all you need to get going is a pack of index cards and a pencil; a skincare blogger tries her hand at DIY and ends up with a cult hit; and a travel backpack company's first attempt at making something goes comically awry.

Jan 09, 2018
Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 2

If you'd like your questions answered on a future mailbag episode leave a message at 708.628.7850.

Dec 26, 2017
Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 1

If you'd like your questions answered on a future mailbag episode, leave us a message at 708-628-7850.

Dec 19, 2017
Planning is Guessing

Basecamp's founders never wrote a business plan when they started the company. Even today, they don't like to look too far ahead. Too much long-term planning can hamper your ability to react to the present. Did you have plans to listen to this episode later? Be spontaneous and listen now! You'll hear from a seasoned investor on how he came to run one of the oldest vinyl record pressing plants in the U.S.; Basecamp CEO Jason Fried on working in six-week cycles; and an independent toy store owner on surviving the holidays without giving into fads.

Dec 05, 2017
Can You Sell Water? Part 2

Some of the tech industry's most vaunted companies revel in their origins as mavericks or rule-breakers, having flouted regulations in the name of disruption. That kind of risk-taking is celebrated in Silicon Valley but punished in other places, most notably minority communities. In this episode: A legal advocate for low-income entrepreneurs talks about the hurdles her clients face, and a husband-and-wife team of street food vendors share what they've learned making the transition from the informal to the formal economy.

Nov 21, 2017
BONUS - The Price of Basecamp's Water

Some leftover bits that didn't make it into the last episode.

Nov 08, 2017
Can You Sell Water? Part 1

Selling is a core skill. You have to know how to sell, whether it's a product, an idea, or yourself. In 2012, Basecamp CEO Jason Fried saw the results of a bottled water-selling challenge at Techstars Chicago, a bootcamp program for startups. That one-day competition is the starting point for a conversation that includes the art of negotiation, Jason's experiences selling knives, tennis rackets, and software; and other adventures in business.

Nov 07, 2017
BONUS - Jason Fried at INDUSTRY 2017

Basecamp CEO Jason Fried talks about ideas with Paul McAvinchey, co-founder of Product Collective, at INDUSTRY: The Product Conference in September 2017.

Oct 31, 2017
The Moral ABC

Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps, which bills itself as the top-selling natural soapmaker in North America, wasn't founded to sell soap. The company was started to promote a religious philosophy developed by Emanuel Bronner, a third-generation German Jewish soapmaker, who printed his message on the labels of his potent peppermint liquid soap. Successive generations of the Bronner family have used the label's message of a united humanity to guide the company, which spends much of its profits on charitable causes and is outspoken on issues like wage equality and fair trade. Today, even as the idea of a united humanity seems more distant than ever, Dr. Bronner's continues to spread its soap and message worldwide.

Oct 24, 2017
Take A Stand

Business and politics tend to make uneasy bedfellows, but in these divisive times, even businesses that have historically stayed out of hot-button issues are coming off the sidelines. In this episode: An online florist tells racists to shop elsewhere; Basecamp stops reimbursing employees for Uber rides; and a Chicago couple creates a lighthearted product with a serious message about the treatment of female bodies.

Oct 10, 2017
Say No

It's easy to say yes, whether it's to a customer request or a deadline from your boss. But saying yes too many times can result in an unmanageable workload or distract you from the stuff you really want to be doing. It's good to practice saying no and setting boundaries. In this episode: A personal organizer helps her clients say no to physical clutter; a programmer at Basecamp peers into the abyss of burnout and steps back just in time; and a healthy meal-planning startup rejects complexity, even if it means letting some customers go.

Sep 26, 2017
Pick A Fight (on Twitter)

Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson is known for many things, including creating Ruby on Rails and writing business books. He also has a knack for arguing with people on the Internet. This cheerfully profane conversation explores how Twitter is like a virtual pillow to scream into and the role that extreme voices play in moving important conversations forward. We also relive some of David's memorable Twitter melees, including the one that got him blocked by Paul Graham.

Sep 12, 2017
Workaholics Aren't Heroes

Being tired isn't a badge of honor. There, we said it. We've been saying this for a while now, because our culture loves to glorify toiling long hours for its own sake and we think that leads to subpar work and general misery. In this episode, we talk to a veteran of the video game industry and a member of Basecamp's customer support team about workaholism and burnout. We also hear from a new business owner who's balancing mindfulness with the demands of starting her own meditation-focused company.

Aug 29, 2017
Sell Your By-products

Welcome to the first episode of Rework! This podcast is based on Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's 2010 best-selling business book, which was itself based on years of blogging. So what better way to kick off this show than talking about byproducts? In this episode, Jason explains how Basecamp's ideas have been packaged as blog posts, workshops, and books. We also visit a 145-year-old sawmill in Ontario, Canada to see how this family-owned business sells its physical byproducts.

Aug 15, 2017
Rework Teaser
"The word you always hear is 'scaling,' right? 'We gotta scale.' And I'm just like: well, why do you have to scale?" – Jason Fried

Introducing the Rework podcast: a show by the makers of Basecamp about a better way to work and run your business. 

For years entrepreneurs have been told that to be successful they have to scale fast, raise money and get big. 

We're here to tell you there's a better way.

Jul 26, 2017