In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Iron Man vs Iron Man battle. The man in the newest suit was unmasked and revealed to be Weasel Wills, a lifetime criminal with an unfortunate name. But was Weasel the one committing the crimes? Or was he a scape goat? How did Weasel steal the suit to begin with? How did he maintain the suit? How was he defeated with an old, obsolete suit? Is there a deeper conspiracy we are not aware of? It was terribly convenient (inconvenient?) that all of the Avengers were missing during the crime spree. Mike and Ed get to the bottom of these important questions!

Behind the issue:

Many of the Captain America stories at this point are “historical stories” from back when the Captain was fighting during World War II. Perhaps that is why Stan decides to keep Captain America on the Avengers when he writes all the others off the team. It was too hard keeping track of where the heroes were in their own titles AND the Avengers title. But it was less of an issue for Captain America, whose own title was not taking place in the same time period

In this issue:

Career criminal Weasel Wills steals Iron Man’s suit, masters it easily, and starts robbing banks. Tony Stark digs out an earlier model and battles Weasel. He defeats Weasel by applying the rope a dope strategy, and unmasks him. Weasel swears he is truly Iron Man, but no one believes him.

Assumed before the next episode:

Conspiracy theories abound about the identity of Iron Man.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man has taken down the imposter.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss when it is appropriate for a regular human to get involved in super-conflict. If you can’t help, you don’t need to show off - just run away and call 911! Also: Are all Asgardians super? If they are, why wouldn’t all of them come to Earth where they could be super powerful? Or is that just beneath their dignity?

Behind the issue:

This is the point where Stan has decided to take Thor “off the table”. He is going to leave the Avengers, and more of his stories will involve stuff happening in Asgard and the politics of the gods, rather than fighting villains of the week on Earth.

In this issue:

Thor and Loki are engaged in battle in a faraway land, at the behest of Odin to sort out who lied to him. This all came about because of a trick that Loki played on Thor and Odin. Ultimately, Odin realizes that Loki lied to him, and that Loki had put Jane Foster in harms way as part of his scheme. Meanwhile on Earth, the Enchantress and the Executioner kidnap Jane in broad daylight, and a bunch of pedestrians intervene in an ill-fated attempt to rescue her. Back to the faraway land - Loki escapes, leaving Thor stranded.

Assumed before the next episode:

People watch footage of the pedestrians being unable to take down super-powered Asgardians and realize they probably shouldn’t try that.

This episode takes place:

After Thor is stranded in another dimension.

Full transcript:

Edward: Mike, it is kidnapping week here on the show, ,

Michael: and I didn't even mark it in my calendar, but you're right. Every year it creeps up on me every year. Kidnapping week, you know, I just think really it's kidnapping week. It's been that long. Oh gee.

Edward: Yeah. Yeah. It's time for the friends and family of our heroes to be put at risk where the villains come in and, use them as leverage to. I dunno, I guess to get the heroes to fight. Why, they couldn't have just got them to fight before, it feels like most of these heroes won't turn down a chance to fight with these villains. Like I think the kidnapping part is a little unnecessary.

Michael: It does seem unnecessary and maybe that's why we're taking a little jaunty view of it, where yes, they're being kidnapped, but it usually works out , no one's really injured. It makes it seem almost like a juvenile game between the super villains and the superheroes.

Edward: And in this particular case, two of the top people at, Stark Corp, pepper Pots and Happy, I'm sorry, I don't know Happy's last name. Happy Hogan. Happy Hogan. Yeah. Happy Hogan. We're kidnapped. Everyone can, Breathe easy. They have all been rescued. Iron, Man has rescued them from the kidnapping. So they're back at home. Happy is now happy. And meanwhile, Sue Storm from the Fantastic Four, the actual superhero Sue Storm, has also been kidnapped by the Frightful four. And she's not yet been returned. So that the case is still out. Although with her powers, she's gonna be much easier to protect herself than Pepper and happier.

Michael: I guess, we'll see how it all shakes out, but on a more serious note there is a concern about these connections with these superheroes that leave them exposed to risk. You gotta wonder about what they're doing to protect themselves in the case of Iron Man, no one knows who he or she is. It's just that there's a person in a suit of armor and they just associate, but

Edward: he's associate, yeah. He's associated with Stark Corp. And so That's right. People know that Iron Man is Tony's Stark's bodyguard more than that. He's like the bodyguard for the company, the face of the company. And so, clearly if one of the top people at the company is kidnapped, Iron Man is gonna come to the rescue. And that's exactly what happened.

Michael: But I think sometimes about say a royal of family or a distant relative of say the president,, if your cousins with the president, are you worried about getting kidnapped? And do you get a security detail? And the answer is no. And if you're 20th and line of the throne. Do you need a security detail because somebody kidnapped them, then it would be news. But I guess there, there is some cold comfort for people that work at Star Corp is that they're that far removed and they're not really at risk, but then again, maybe their career's not going so well, if they're not, if they're not exposed to kidnapping.

Edward: That's right. This, this, you've been promoted and also kidnapped.

Michael: Yeah. And they're like, thank God. Finally, you know what? They gave me a corner office and that was great and all, but it wasn't until I actually was reporting directly to Tony Stark that I was kidnapped. I was kidnapped by a Russian spy

Edward: I've made it. I've made it. Mike . My career is finally taking off, and I'm a prisoner in Russia.

Michael: Keep my bonus kidnapping and take me Siberia. .

Edward: Is that like, I wonder if that's like a bullet on their resume for their next job was kidnapped four times. Therefore, it must be important.

Michael: rescued by Iron Man three times and once by Thor. It was great. You know, recommended five stars.

Edward: Yeah so this time, I dunno, we should probably cover both these kidnappings, but the first kidnapping of, pepper and Happy, was I guess a former Russian agent called Black Widow. And, someone called Hawkeye. And, Hawkeye apparently dangerous cause he did significant damage to Iron Man's Armors, Iron Man, managed to recover the two kidnappings. Black widow and Hawkeye did escape, but in the process, Iron Man's Armor was severely damaged. So this was a real threat.

Michael: It is, but it's super weird, right? So Ironman's basically a living weapon. He's a rocket gun, you know. The way I understand Hawkeye is he fights with a bow and arrow and while I accept the fact that he somehow used the bow and arrow to get acid on costume. I don't think the operative part was the bow and arrow. I think it was the acid that just could eat through the suit. And my question,

Edward: The arrow was a delivery vehicle for the.

Michael: You could get a water gun for that , you know, especially,

Edward: I'm pretty sure the wa like, I dunno if you, so I have some young children and they use water guns. Water guns do not shoot water very far. Okay. Whereas a bow and arrow, you could shoot that very far. Like maybe not as far as a sniper rifle, but a solid bow and arrow. You can shoot that thing a long wave.

Michael: I know. Okay, I get that point. But I guess what I'm saying is that it seems like the only thing he's got is a bow and arrow so if he's truly the marksman, why is he not using a gun? Not that I wanted to use a gun cuz he's a bad guy. But wouldn't it be more effective in a fight if you had a gun and an earring? Accuracy

Edward: Depends who you're, you're fighting against. I think if someone brought a gun to fight Iron, Man, those bullets would just bounce off his armor. But instead, well, he fired an acid arrow at him that melted his armor and practically took him.

Michael: But I guess. Up your game, Hawkeye bring a rocket launcher. You know, or like, it's not gonna get bone arrow. It just the acid arrow. How it seems like the only thing that might've helped again, and in a fight between Hawkeye and Iron Man, like what else, what other arrow could he have?

Edward: Maybe he has,, I could imagine many arrows, right? I can imagine. Many imagine he had like an emmp arrow that knocked out electronics. Clearly he didn't have one of those. Cause if he did, he could've taken out Iron Man with one. But he even, but maybe he should get one for next time.

Michael: A projectile, like a gun. He could use, he could shoot like a little disc or something.

Edward: Don't arrow guns don't. Guns don't have e emmp blockers. They don't have, there's no such arrow bullets. There's no acid bullets. These arrows do. These arrows do. Why not? Why not? ,

Michael: I just think it's, Silly. I just think it's silly. It seems like he's committed. He's like, you know what? I like, I like being an archer. And they're like, hold on a second, the 17 hundreds called, they want their weapons back. And they're like, yeah, forget it. I'm sticking with it. No, it's not even the 17 hundreds, like the 14 hundreds, there's been advances in technology Hawkeye. And if you're really good at aiming things and shooting things, invest in a little. You know, gun work

Edward: Well, here's my theory is that Hawkeye has some sort of incredible superpowers that'll, that give him the ability to shoot these things the same way we talked about the green goblin being able to balance on that, right? On his, on his hoverboard. I feel like Hawkeye has some sort of advanced superpowers on firing arrows. And he's combined that with incredible technology that provides these arrows that do incredible things. And I think, just because it seems silly to you, Mike, doesn't mean it's not.

Michael: No, I, acknowledge that. I just, I guess I'd like to, again, like many of these superheroes I like to talk to and say, just so I understand this, have you thought about something different? Just like, explain to me why this is the process, if it's not just a shtick that you have because you like looking like, a bad Robinhood Halloween costume.

Edward: I think, this is a case, Mike, where you are sitting here being the critic, right. Going and arguing against these guys, whereas he's out there risking his life actually doing this stuff and, and like I, the bad guy, I'm, I'm gonna, well he's doing evil, but at least he's doing something. He's, he's stepping up and he's, and he's taking action and he's making things happen in the world. And I, feel like sitting back and critiquing it. We should be trying to understand it and let's understand what he's doing and why he's doing it that way. But to, wave your hands and say what he's doing is dumb and stupid, man. I wanna see you go out there and fight Iron Man with your rocket launcher .

Michael: I'm not, but I guess, okay. I guess I was, I just still find it silly. But no, I'm ed you've really made it, you've made some headway in this discussion. Yes. Okay. Iron, Man, keep it up or no, Iron Man haw. Keep it up. Keep it up. See how, see what happens. But I'm just saying to you right now, in a year's time, he is in jail, , and it's like, and I'd be curious. And they take away his arrows. . Yeah. I'd be curious. He says like, yeah, you know what, you know what my mistake was? I used a bow and arrow in a modern world to commit crimes instead, I should have. A gun or a rocket launcher, or a flame thrower, or even a water gun. that shot.

Edward: Hey, speak. Speaking of other options, let's, let's move on to our second kidnapping of the week. So Sue Storm, kidnapped by the frightful four. All four of them, I guess, got together and took her out. Usually the fight for four are battling the entire Fantastic four. And this case they focus their efforts on one individual, on the team, kidnapped her, are now demanding the other ones come and fight them. So far nothing really exciting in the news, but I think what's interesting, maybe interesting is that, two of the dreadful four, are, if not new then rebrand.

Michael: I think they're definitely rebranded, and I find it, again, I guess the theme I'm having is that it just seems kind of silly. So like, do you know what the name is?

Edward: Like we talked about the silliness, . Let's give these guys some credit. They're battling the Fantastic Four. These are not clowns,

Michael: not silly people. Okay. Okay, let's go through this. Okay, so we know about what's his, um, what's his real name, the Wizard's real name, uh, bent. Whitman Bentley Bettman? Yes, that's correct. Okay. Okay. So he goes from Bentley Whitman very intelligent person knowing the world over to calling himself the wizard cuz he's like super smart and he wants to out Fox the Human Torch who's a teenager. And then he's rebranded himself as a Wingless wizard cuz he's using is, he's still using his anti-gravity suit, which he had before. And my first. Who are you talking to about the branding? Like boy, the wingless part is not the interesting part of this. We already know you're the wizards so you're flying, but you and I Ed are wingless. This isn't the win the Wingless radio show. You know what I mean? I'm not the wingless lawyer. You're the winless dad of your children. The Thing.

Edward: If he was, if he was armless, maybe he should call that out. But you're right, a human who is Wingless doesn't seem to be The Thing that you care about.

Michael: No, it's not. It's not like, woo. I'm really intimidated. He's wingless. Watch out. He's wingless. .

Edward: You can imagine all these other characteristics he does not have . The claws.

Michael: Claws, you know. I don't know, like the finless, like, I guess you wouldn't be good swimming. Like it's just dumb . So it's not just, it's not just silly, it's kind of dumb.

The guiltless, the guiltless wizard. , what I hope, what I hope, because he's a bad guy, he's doing bad things and he kidnapped somebody recently is, I hope that he paid a lot of money to some consultant to say, what am I missing? Why, why are people thinking I'm a bad guy, just cause I do bad things? They're like, you know what it is? It's because, you know, the wizard is so intimidating. Let's just say, to soften you up and say like, here are things you, you aren't, you're, you don't have wings, so we're gonna call you wingless and that, and everyone likes alliteration. You're the. You're the wingless wizard now. That'll be $5,000 here. Thank you very much. Goodbye, Lee. I just think it's not very good.

Edward: Okay. I think we can agree the Wingless wizard was a misfire when it comes to branding. But. The other member of the team who's come up with a new name for themselves, paste Pot, Pete, which I always have a hard time saying, and yeah. Frankly, might be the worst name in the superhero business, . And it was about, it was about time he changed and he did change to what I like. Well, it's not a worst name.

Michael: The Trapster. The Trapster. You know, I think the irony here is that they're on the same team and the Wisher goes to a worst name with alliteration and Pace Pot pete goes to a better name, and eliminates the alliteration. . Yeah. So it's no longer Pace Pot Pete, which is kind of like, again, pace Pot is not like, Ooh. Oh no. They might. Something sticky on me. The trapster is a little more, nefarious, right? And I think it's more intimidating if that's what you're going for as a super villain. And it just seems that maybe. Pete Trapster should go over talk to Wing Wizard and say, you know what, ,

Edward: as much as we all love the alliterations, it's, they're unnecessary these days. You can, like, they're, yeah, don't, you don't need to li you don't need to put yourself in that box wizard. You could call yourself the box less wizard.

Michael: Yeah, but he should say something like, Hey, I was like you before where I thought what people needed to know was have in my name was have descriptions like Pace Pot. You know, Pete wasn't enough, had to be Pace Pot, and you had to be winless, but you don't need it at all. Just go right to the name, the Wizard, and I'm the Trapster and you're Wizard. So you're smart and you're devious, and I'm. I'm gonna trap you with my pace Pot , but I'm not gonna say that part because it's just gonna happen. It's just like I'm gonna trap 'em,

Edward: talk, talk, talk, talk about what you achieve, not how you achieve it.

Michael: That's right. And I won't be tied down to the PACE pod cuz I have more than glue, not much, but I have more than glue I might have like genius plans.

Edward: I can trap you with whatever methods I choose. .

Michael: Yeah. And I might just talk to my friend, the Wizard who's super smart. He's gonna help me figure out how to do these plants and I'll just, I'll do it. Sometimes it'll evolve pace, but I'm not tied down to it. And you know what, you might just float away. But no one needs to know why. just do listen. Just do.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss two recent kidnappings: Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan by the Black Widow and Hawkeye, and Sue Storm by the Frightful Four. How senior do you need to be at StarkCorp before you are at risk of being kidnapped? Is a bow and arrow an effective weapon in the modern age? Should a wizard be defined by a lack of wings? Isn’t lack of wings a common trait we all hold? All this and more - just don’t call us silly!

Behind the issues:

As we get further into 1965, more and more issues are multi-part stories. Tales of Suspense #64 re-introduces Hawkeye as a villain, only to have him switch to being an Avenger next month in Avengers #16. Fantastic Four #38 ends with the heroes being at the epicenter of a nuclear bomb, and the after effects of that conflict continue for the next two issues. This pattern of moving beyond “supervillain of the month” becomes more regular with all of the titles over the next few months.

In this issue:

Tales of Suspense #64

In the first story, Black Widow meets up with Hawkeye again. She explains how she has been pressed into service for the USSR, and that they have designed her fancy new costume replete with weapons and gadgets. She enlists Hawkeye with her task, to destroy Iron Man. To that end, they kidnap Happy and Pepper in an effort to attract Iron Man to their trap. Iron Man shows up, and Hawkeye and Black Widow nearly take him down. Fortunately, Iron Man rescues his friends, as the supervillains (soon to be superheroes) flee.

The second story is a Captain America tale from WWII, when he had a secret identify as a first class screwup in the US Army. In this tale, Cap and Bucky battle a team of Nazis who have set up an innocent man who shows American audiences on a large crystal ball showing the awful future that awaits the US if it joins in the war. Cap and Bucky are able to break this propaganda show up. In the course of this story, we meet Agent Thirteen for the first time.

Fantastic Four #38

The Wingless Wizard (formerly the Wizard) argues with his teammates in the Frightful Four, the Trapster (formerly Paste Pot Pete), Medusa, and Sandman, and ultimately establishes why he is their leader with his mastery of gravity (basically he can fling things around with his anti-gravity tech). The Frightful Four kidnap Sue Storm, and the world takes notice. They take her to a small atoll in the ocean, and the Fantastic Four give chase, tracking them down and attacking the other foursome. The Human Torch is captured but then rescued by Reed and Ben, and the battle between the two foursomes then begins in earnest. Ultimately, the Frightful Four leave the atoll, leaving the Fantastic Four on the island moments before it is to be blown up by a bomb. The bomb detonates, but fortunately Sue protects her teammates in a force field, floating unconscious on the water’s surface.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering what the deal is with these superpowered people and the number 4.

This episode takes place:

After the Frightful Four have bested the Fantastic Four, and assume they have been blown up.

Full Transcript:

Edward: Mike, it is kidnapping week here on the show, ,

Michael: and I didn't even mark it in my calendar, but you're right. Every year it creeps up on me every year. Kidnapping week, you know, I just think really it's kidnapping week. It's been that long. Oh gee.

Edward: Yeah. Yeah. It's time for the friends and family of our heroes to be put at risk where the villains come in and, use them as leverage to. I dunno, I guess to get the heroes to fight. Why, they couldn't have just got them to fight before, it feels like most of these heroes won't turn down a chance to fight with these villains. Like I think the kidnapping part is a little unnecessary.

Michael: It does seem unnecessary and maybe that's why we're taking a little jaunty view of it, where yes, they're being kidnapped, but it usually works out , no one's really injured. It makes it seem almost like a juvenile game between the super villains and the superheroes.

Edward: And in this particular case, two of the top people at, Stark Corp, pepper Pots and Happy, I'm sorry, I don't know Happy's last name. Happy Hogan. Happy Hogan. Yeah. Happy Hogan. We're kidnapped. Everyone can, Breathe easy. They have all been rescued. Iron, Man has rescued them from the kidnapping. So they're back at home. Happy is now happy. And meanwhile, Sue Storm from the Fantastic Four, the actual superhero Sue Storm, has also been kidnapped by the Frightful four. And she's not yet been returned. So that the case is still out. Although with her powers, she's gonna be much easier to protect herself than Pepper and happier.

Michael: I guess, we'll see how it all shakes out, but on a more serious note there is a concern about these connections with these superheroes that leave them exposed to risk. You gotta wonder about what they're doing to protect themselves in the case of Iron Man, no one knows who he or she is. It's just that there's a person in a suit of armor and they just associate, but

Edward: he's associate, yeah. He's associated with Stark Corp. And so That's right. People know that Iron Man is Tony's Stark's bodyguard more than that. He's like the bodyguard for the company, the face of the company. And so, clearly if one of the top people at the company is kidnapped, Iron Man is gonna come to the rescue. And that's exactly what happened.

Michael: But I think sometimes about say a royal of family or a distant relative of say the president,, if your cousins with the president, are you worried about getting kidnapped? And do you get a security detail? And the answer is no. And if you're 20th and line of the throne. Do you need a security detail because somebody kidnapped them, then it would be news. But I guess there, there is some cold comfort for people that work at Star Corp is that they're that far removed and they're not really at risk, but then again, maybe their career's not going so well, if they're not, if they're not exposed to kidnapping.

Edward: That's right. This, this, you've been promoted and also kidnapped.

Michael: Yeah. And they're like, thank God. Finally, you know what? They gave me a corner office and that was great and all, but it wasn't until I actually was reporting directly to Tony Stark that I was kidnapped. I was kidnapped by a Russian spy

Edward: I've made it. I've made it. Mike . My career is finally taking off, and I'm a prisoner in Russia.

Michael: Keep my bonus kidnapping and take me Siberia. .

Edward: Is that like, I wonder if that's like a bullet on their resume for their next job was kidnapped four times. Therefore, it must be important.

Michael: rescued by Iron Man three times and once by Thor. It was great. You know, recommended five stars.

Edward: Yeah so this time, I dunno, we should probably cover both these kidnappings, but the first kidnapping of, pepper and Happy, was I guess a former Russian agent called Black Widow. And, someone called Hawkeye. And, Hawkeye apparently dangerous cause he did significant damage to Iron Man's Armors, Iron Man, managed to recover the two kidnappings. Black widow and Hawkeye did escape, but in the process, Iron Man's Armor was severely damaged. So this was a real threat.

Michael: It is, but it's super weird, right? So Ironman's basically a living weapon. He's a rocket gun, you know. The way I understand Hawkeye is he fights with a bow and arrow and while I accept the fact that he somehow used the bow and arrow to get acid on costume. I don't think the operative part was the bow and arrow. I think it was the acid that just could eat through the suit. And my question,

Edward: The arrow was a delivery vehicle for the.

Michael: You could get a water gun for that , you know, especially,

Edward: I'm pretty sure the wa like, I dunno if you, so I have some young children and they use water guns. Water guns do not shoot water very far. Okay. Whereas a bow and arrow, you could shoot that very far. Like maybe not as far as a sniper rifle, but a solid bow and arrow. You can shoot that thing a long wave.

Michael: I know. Okay, I get that point. But I guess what I'm saying is that it seems like the only thing he's got is a bow and arrow so if he's truly the marksman, why is he not using a gun? Not that I wanted to use a gun cuz he's a bad guy. But wouldn't it be more effective in a fight if you had a gun and an earring? Accuracy

Edward: Depends who you're, you're fighting against. I think if someone brought a gun to fight Iron, Man, those bullets would just bounce off his armor. But instead, well, he fired an acid arrow at him that melted his armor and practically took him.

Michael: But I guess. Up your game, Hawkeye bring a rocket launcher. You know, or like, it's not gonna get bone arrow. It just the acid arrow. How it seems like the only thing that might've helped again, and in a fight between Hawkeye and Iron Man, like what else, what other arrow could he have?

Edward: Maybe he has,, I could imagine many arrows, right? I can imagine. Many imagine he had like an emmp arrow that knocked out electronics. Clearly he didn't have one of those. Cause if he did, he could've taken out Iron Man with one. But he even, but maybe he should get one for next time.

Michael: A projectile, like a gun. He could use, he could shoot like a little disc or something.

Edward: Don't arrow guns don't. Guns don't have e emmp blockers. They don't have, there's no such arrow bullets. There's no acid bullets. These arrows do. These arrows do. Why not? Why not? ,

Michael: I just think it's, Silly. I just think it's silly. It seems like he's committed. He's like, you know what? I like, I like being an archer. And they're like, hold on a second, the 17 hundreds called, they want their weapons back. And they're like, yeah, forget it. I'm sticking with it. No, it's not even the 17 hundreds, like the 14 hundreds, there's been advances in technology Hawkeye. And if you're really good at aiming things and shooting things, invest in a little. You know, gun work

Edward: Well, here's my theory is that Hawkeye has some sort of incredible superpowers that'll, that give him the ability to shoot these things the same way we talked about the green goblin being able to balance on that, right? On his, on his hoverboard. I feel like Hawkeye has some sort of advanced superpowers on firing arrows. And he's combined that with incredible technology that provides these arrows that do incredible things. And I think, just because it seems silly to you, Mike, doesn't mean it's not.

Michael: No, I, acknowledge that. I just, I guess I'd like to, again, like many of these superheroes I like to talk to and say, just so I understand this, have you thought about something different? Just like, explain to me why this is the process, if it's not just a shtick that you have because you like looking like, a bad Robinhood Halloween costume.

Edward: I think, this is a case, Mike, where you are sitting here being the critic, right. Going and arguing against these guys, whereas he's out there risking his life actually doing this stuff and, and like I, the bad guy, I'm, I'm gonna, well he's doing evil, but at least he's doing something. He's, he's stepping up and he's, and he's taking action and he's making things happen in the world. And I, feel like sitting back and critiquing it. We should be trying to understand it and let's understand what he's doing and why he's doing it that way. But to, wave your hands and say what he's doing is dumb and stupid, man. I wanna see you go out there and fight Iron Man with your rocket launcher .

Michael: I'm not, but I guess, okay. I guess I was, I just still find it silly. But no, I'm ed you've really made it, you've made some headway in this discussion. Yes. Okay. Iron, Man, keep it up or no, Iron Man haw. Keep it up. Keep it up. See how, see what happens. But I'm just saying to you right now, in a year's time, he is in jail, , and it's like, and I'd be curious. And they take away his arrows. . Yeah. I'd be curious. He says like, yeah, you know what, you know what my mistake was? I used a bow and arrow in a modern world to commit crimes instead, I should have. A gun or a rocket launcher, or a flame thrower, or even a water gun. that shot.

Edward: Hey, speak. Speaking of other options, let's, let's move on to our second kidnapping of the week. So Sue Storm, kidnapped by the frightful four. All four of them, I guess, got together and took her out. Usually the fight for four are battling the entire Fantastic four. And this case they focus their efforts on one individual, on the team, kidnapped her, are now demanding the other ones come and fight them. So far nothing really exciting in the news, but I think what's interesting, maybe interesting is that, two of the dreadful four, are, if not new then rebrand.

Michael: I think they're definitely rebranded, and I find it, again, I guess the theme I'm having is that it just seems kind of silly. So like, do you know what the name is?

Edward: Like we talked about the silliness, . Let's give these guys some credit. They're battling the Fantastic Four. These are not clowns,

Michael: not silly people. Okay. Okay, let's go through this. Okay, so we know about what's his, um, what's his real name, the Wizard's real name, uh, bent. Whitman Bentley Bettman? Yes, that's correct. Okay. Okay. So he goes from Bentley Whitman very intelligent person knowing the world over to calling himself the wizard cuz he's like super smart and he wants to out Fox the Human Torch who's a teenager. And then he's rebranded himself as a Wingless wizard cuz he's using is, he's still using his anti-gravity suit, which he had before. And my first. Who are you talking to about the branding? Like boy, the wingless part is not the interesting part of this. We already know you're the wizards so you're flying, but you and I Ed are wingless. This isn't the win the Wingless radio show. You know what I mean? I'm not the wingless lawyer. You're the winless dad of your children. The Thing.

Edward: If he was, if he was armless, maybe he should call that out. But you're right, a human who is Wingless doesn't seem to be The Thing that you care about.

Michael: No, it's not. It's not like, woo. I'm really intimidated. He's wingless. Watch out. He's wingless. .

Edward: You can imagine all these other characteristics he does not have . The claws.

Michael: Claws, you know. I don't know, like the finless, like, I guess you wouldn't be good swimming. Like it's just dumb . So it's not just, it's not just silly, it's kind of dumb.

The guiltless, the guiltless wizard. , what I hope, what I hope, because he's a bad guy, he's doing bad things and he kidnapped somebody recently is, I hope that he paid a lot of money to some consultant to say, what am I missing? Why, why are people thinking I'm a bad guy, just cause I do bad things? They're like, you know what it is? It's because, you know, the wizard is so intimidating. Let's just say, to soften you up and say like, here are things you, you aren't, you're, you don't have wings, so we're gonna call you wingless and that, and everyone likes alliteration. You're the. You're the wingless wizard now. That'll be $5,000 here. Thank you very much. Goodbye, Lee. I just think it's not very good.

Edward: Okay. I think we can agree the Wingless wizard was a misfire when it comes to branding. But. The other member of the team who's come up with a new name for themselves, paste Pot, Pete, which I always have a hard time saying, and yeah. Frankly, might be the worst name in the superhero business, . And it was about, it was about time he changed and he did change to what I like. Well, it's not a worst name.

Michael: The Trapster. The Trapster. You know, I think the irony here is that they're on the same team and the Wisher goes to a worst name with alliteration and Pace Pot pete goes to a better name, and eliminates the alliteration. . Yeah. So it's no longer Pace Pot Pete, which is kind of like, again, pace Pot is not like, Ooh. Oh no. They might. Something sticky on me. The trapster is a little more, nefarious, right? And I think it's more intimidating if that's what you're going for as a super villain. And it just seems that maybe. Pete Trapster should go over talk to Wing Wizard and say, you know what, ,

Edward: as much as we all love the alliterations, it's, they're unnecessary these days. You can, like, they're, yeah, don't, you don't need to li you don't need to put yourself in that box wizard. You could call yourself the box less wizard.

Michael: Yeah, but he should say something like, Hey, I was like you before where I thought what people needed to know was have in my name was have descriptions like Pace Pot. You know, Pete wasn't enough, had to be Pace Pot, and you had to be winless, but you don't need it at all. Just go right to the name, the Wizard, and I'm the Trapster and you're Wizard. So you're smart and you're devious, and I'm. I'm gonna trap you with my pace Pot , but I'm not gonna say that part because it's just gonna happen. It's just like I'm gonna trap 'em,

Edward: talk, talk, talk, talk about what you achieve, not how you achieve it.

Michael: That's right. And I won't be tied down to the PACE pod cuz I have more than glue, not much, but I have more than glue I might have like genius plans.

Edward: I can trap you with whatever methods I choose. .

Michael: Yeah. And I might just talk to my friend, the Wizard who's super smart. He's gonna help me figure out how to do these plants and I'll just, I'll do it. Sometimes it'll evolve pace, but I'm not tied down to it. And you know what, you might just float away. But no one needs to know why. just do listen. Just do.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the trial of the century! Namor the Submariner is on trial for vandalism, which seems like a minor charge for the head of state of an empire that attempted to take over the world. He is represented by celebrity lawyer Matthew Murdock. Murdock, who also represents the Fantastic Four in real estate matters and is accordingly well familiar with super-powered individuals and their super-powered issues. But regardless of client base, can one lawyer really understand civil AND criminal law? Is Murdock too specialized … or not specialized enough?

Behind the issue:

Namor continues to be one of the only “anti-heroes” in Marvel Comics at the time. He is self-righteous and impatient, but he is also honorable and motivated by more than taking over the world and being “evil”. Stan Lee clearly liked writing this character, and he will soon get his own monthly feature.

In this issue:

Namor, as leader of Atlantis, wants to find a peaceful way to take over the surface world. He visits Matt Murdock and tells him he wants to sue the human race Murdock says that’s impossible, and Namor leaves in a huff. He then causes a ruckus in New York City, causing wanton property damage, leading to his arrest after battling Daredevil (who is secretly Matt Murdock) in the streets. Murdock then represents Namor on the criminal charges brought against him, and countercharges the human race (which is quickly, and correctly, thrown out of court). Namor is then informed of a rebellion back home, which causes him to just leave the jail and attempt to return home. Daredevil battles Namor again, and does quite well, but ultimately Namor wins the battle and returns to his life below the waves.

Assumed before the next episode:

Matt Murdock rethinks his approach to the practice of law after this disastrous experience.

This episode takes place:

After Namor returns to the sea.

Full transcript:

Edward: Mike, does this mean that we're defendants? Are we defendants because we're part of the human race? ?

Micheal: Short answer, no. , no. But it's a surprising turn of events in,

Edward: is it though, is it surprising? Is it actually surprising?

Micheal: I guess we should, we should never use the word surprising when it comes to superheroes and New York City. But, the recent news. Not surprising, but unfortunate from a lawyer's perspective about the abuse of the legal system and the justice system. I would say,

Edward: Mike, you can handle it when they tear apart our cities, but when they tear apart our legal system, that's when you get upset.

Micheal: That's a long too far. Ed. That's just a, just, it's too much. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. I'll say that,

Edward: So, hey, what I'm talking about here is that, Namo, the Submariner, the Prince of Atlantis, was charged with what, with vandalism. He's going to jail for vandalism, ,

Micheal: pretty penny anti stuff, like causing a ruckus in the city and causing damage. And then he hires a pretty wellknown lawyer. A lawyer we've talked about before, Matt Murd.

Edward: Yeah. Matt Murdoch. So he represents the Fantastic four. He also had some notoriety in the past. He came forward and said that made this big claim that he could prove that Daredevil and the Matador were the same person and it turned out that that was not true. , that Daredevil is not the Matador. And, he got a little bit of egg on his face for that one, but now he's back, he's back in the public eye. Probably the most famous lawyer in the world, right. .

Micheal: Yeah. So, I've always found it confusing when I've read about Mad Murdoch, cuz I thought he was mainly a criminal lawyer. So it's odd that he would be on retainer or have anything to do with a Fantastic Four. But here at least he, it started out as being a criminal matter like NAR was charged with an offense and had to appear in criminal court. But what was confusing? Which causes me to question Matt Murdoch. As a lawyer is that he filed a counter charge. You're gonna see entire human race. No, no. Like what's, that's, that's, that's ridiculous. Like, like

Edward: so, so Mike, in your legal opinion, he can't do that.

Micheal: Yes, yes. That's my legal opinion. Like there's, there's just no way to describe it other than the criminal court involves, there's prosecutions in the simplest way, the state lays a charge against a person for an offense and that's what happens. Like the person who's been charged with the offense doesn't get to claim against this. The state , if you like, we have a whole system, we have civil litigation for that purpose. If you want to say as an individual, Sue, the United States. You can advance a claim, I guess if you're the basis for it, or Sue you, or anybody.

But you don't,

Edward: could you, could you Sue the, is the human race one of the options? Can you Sue the entire, no, not a person. But what, but what if the human race has done me wrong? What if the human race has, I don't know, killed my dog, can't I? Can I file a claim against the human race for doing that?

Micheal: No. No, ed, I'm just telling you I'm gonna entertain this. Other than like, you just can't. You can't. If you've got a problem with the human race, I guess, you know, then you should. Talk to like a therapist or something. But if you have a claim for damages that you want to advance in civil court, it would be against entities such as United States. It could be the state of New York. It could be, any number of companies. It could be any number of people. But this concept of the human race, uh, isn't, uh, a, a viable party.

Edward: How small a group do you have to go to? Like the Native Americans were treated very badly by the European settlers when they came to America. If there is a leader of the Native American tribes, can they counter Sue against the American people, the American government? Is that possible?

Micheal: I don't wanna get into that, that's a whole conversation about indigenous rights but you're talking about a group of people who have been mistreated in the past. It's not like you could just Sue a group of people you need a definable defendant. You can't counterclaim against the human race when you've been charged criminally and that's what Matt Murdoch did. And the question is why would he do that? Because he's obviously not a moron, but that's a moronic thing to do, like and it,

Edward: it's, you're not stupid, sir. But that was a stupid question, .

Micheal: That's right. And it's so why would he do it? He's not an idiot, so he knows that he shouldn't do this, and the only person that benefits from what he did is himself. For the notoriety, because we're talking about it right now. Naor doesn't benefit from it because he's, first of all, he's paying Matt Murdoch for this service, and it's a service that he can't really discharge, which is. To represent him properly in a criminal dispute where he advances a claim that they'll be dismissed right away.

Edward: Unless Namir is just doing it for publicity as well. Sure. Matt Murdoch's getting a ton of publicity from this, but so is Namir. I think everyone is talking about the fact that he believes that. Humanity owes him something. And I think that talk has happened. Clearly the judge shot it down. There's no counterclaim happening, but, we're still talking about it. Maybe that's what he wanted.

Micheal: As it relates to Murdoch. I think that he acted contrary to the duty that he owes as a lawyer, because you're an officer of the court and you can't knowingly advance something that's fundamentally inconsistent with the justice system. There is a time and a place to advance a claim, a personal claim. It's not a criminal court. And Murdoch knows that such a complete waste of time and a complete waste of judicial resources. And he shouldn't have done

Edward: but, but Mike, yeah. But it was one sentence he said in his corner or that was shot down immediately? No, no, no. As far as time wasted, like there was not that much time was.

Micheal: No, no. Ed, I know that he says he, he wanted to file that, but he had to actually file written papers. The other side being the state would've to respond to it, to dismiss it and, advance an argument. But what I'm saying is that Murdoch, if he truly wanted to discharge his duty, and he would've the same notoriety to be honest. If he could have, assisted na more as a head of states, I suppose, to navigate diplomatic world, to advance grievances, I guess between one state and the United States and perhaps advance that the United Nations or. Consider how to advance a civil claim for damages with respect to say, I don't know, the ocean or something and how the United States is interfering with their homeland. There's things that can happen countries have disputes through different processes and treaties throughout the world or on the world. You could advance these claims, but to do it in this, it's abusive of the system of justice and it's also just counterproductive and it didn't really serve what apparently name or aims are. And I think as a lawyer you have to do your best to serve the interests of your client, even if it's telling them, great idea. We can't do that. , and here's why.

Edward: Well, this is why that you're not his lawyer. Mike, if you, if he came to you , you'd be like, no, go, swim in an ocean Naor. But Murdoch was like, Hey, I'll take you for your word and we'll go and we'll actually do it. Even though to your point, it was a bad decision to do. But what of the things you touched on there, I think he's worth exploring is Nair's, a head of state. Are we allowed to charge the head of state with vandalism when they visit our country? Is that a.

Micheal: I, have limited understanding of that, but the way I understand it's that if a head of state is here on official business, I think that they have some kind of protection against prosecution, right? Because otherwise there could be some mise, I suppose, about visiting heads of state in foreign lands with different laws to what?

Edward: Yeah, like it was, it was only otherwise applied to them. It was only last year when craven, this international hunter came to New York. Craven is not the head of state, he's just a foreign national. He came into our country and then proceeded to hunt a human being, and, we didn't charge him, we just, deported him. So why was he deported? Whereas Namo. While he did many bad things, didn't hunt a human, and, uh, say what you will about namir.

Micheal: Say what? You'll about namir. He didn't hunt a human. He didn't hunt a human one bit. Not at all. .

Edward: Yeah. He just be broke down. Some, some walls and stuff caused some damage. Why does that go to court at all? Why is it happening? Does the US even have the ability to do that? Are we allowed to? Well, clearly we are. Cause we did. But is that a.

Micheal: Yet another failing of Matt Murdoch. I mean, you

Edward: shoulda dismissed. You shoulda had dismissed

Micheal: right off the bat. Yeah. I have a feeling, I have a feeling that Mr. Murdoch may run up against, a complaint at the bar, if not by name, more than perhaps by other participants in the justice system for just this complete dereliction of duty. I would say as a lawyer, just outrageous, but ultimately, maybe he doesn't care that he keeps his license. He's like, so, He has, like everyone knows who he is. He can say he's got the Fantastic Four and now name, where as his clients. And there might be, there's probably, an appeal to a lot of, clients to having a famous superhero adjacent. Lawyer and maybe Murdoch is trying to get away from the criminal work to get into the civil work or the commercial work to make more money.

Edward: I feel like we've been talking about this it's come up again and again where you keep having this idea that we need to have like specialty, specialty right people for the superhero space. Well, here, Matt Murdoch has done that and instead of specializing in insurance or criminal law or family law, Whatever else you lawyers do. He said, I'm gonna specialize in superhero law. And he's representing the Fantastic Four in I don't know, real estate contracts and he's representing Namo in criminal court. And he's like, I can do it all. As long as it's like, as long as it's superhero adjacent, I can cover across all the different legal verticals.

Micheal: Yeah, I think that, I thought, a bit more of a narrow specialty ed, like, I act for insurance companies, but it's not like Civil and commercial disputes. But it's not if, say that one of the executives was charged with murder, they would hire me to do the murder trial. Like it's just like that's a specialty, that's a unique set of, are you saying specialized area?

Edward: You are a specialist in insurance murders.

Micheal: No, . They need a murderer lawyer. They don't need a, they need, they don't need like an insurance lawyer just cuz they work in that industry. So I think that, I think Murdoch is being, I would, I'd use the word irresponsible.

Edward: I would use the word opportun.

Micheal: and you do some other op opportunistic lists. Right? But I'd imagine that he could seek, I'm sure he could specialize in doing, superpower criminal work. And maybe he could have a law, join a law firm where there'd be other people that work in that as in that field, or they service the superhero community. But a specialist does the real estate work for superpowered people. A specialist does the damages claims for superpowered people.

Edward: I think the problem, Mike, is that the insurance industry is a much bigger industry than the superhero industry. Mm-hmm. , there's just, there's, there aren't like, I dunno how many people. Work in insurance in America, but I'll bet that number is much higher than the number of superheroes there are in America. And so it feels like they need more legal support. And so there may not be enough work out there for a lawyer that specializes in like superhero real estate or superhero insurance or superhero accounts management.

Micheal: No, no, I get it. I think though, I guess what I'm trying to work out here for Murdoch , his problem is that I think what I'm seeing is that you could still be the go-to person for when, as if you're a superhero who's charged with a criminal matter. You could be the go-to person because you to that community and. would lead to more regular business. Like when I started out, I did some work at a criminal law firm with a very famous and well-known, criminal lawyer. And I, didn't want to be a criminal lawyer after that experience, but I definitely saw the business model where this lawyer serviced like very high profile cases. He serviced that industry where people would go to him. Rich and famous people if they were charged with an offense. And he did that. He acted as her lawyer. But the bread and butter wasn't that work. The bread and butter was more the regular assaults and fistfights and whatever that criminal lawyers do. So, by extension, I think that someone like Murdoch could. Service the superpower community to bring in the rest of the work. Just like a commercial. He could do the same thing, you know?

Edward: Got it. So he goes and represents the superheroes in their fights and their battles, and their disputes becomes famous, and then spends his time representing normal criminals.

Micheal: That's right. And so that way, it drives in the business what I think the irresponsible part is that he's being too broad. I don't think that you can say you're a specialist for the superhero community, but I think you can see I'm a specialist in criminal law and I've acted for these, superheroes, that's just the marketing thing that he's.

Edward: Maybe, we should take our show and expand it to talk about non superhero stuff. We bring people in for the superheroes, , and then we just talk about normal everyday things that are not as interesting. But you, you already lo know and love us, so you stick around for the other stuff.

Micheal: Come for the heroes, stick around for the, um, stuff, other stuff.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the battle between the Avengers and the Masters of Evil - not to be confused with the Brotherhood of Evil. Ed explains the importance of differentiation in your brand - you don’t want to be confused for someone else. Mike wants to know if every superhero also has to be a tailor in their spare time. How many costumes does someone like Spider-Man own? Is his summer costume made with different material than his winter costume? Is the real benefit of being on a super team the laundry services? And why is Giant-Man re-branding yet again? The red and blue suits you, big guy, now stop fiddling with it and just embrace the fit!

Behind the issue:

This is the last full issue of this Avengers roster. The next issue, Avengers #16, completely changes the membership (more on that when we cover that issue). This issue ends on a cliffhanger but is wrapped up quickly in the next issue. The battle is used as the driver of why most of the team members decide to leave the organization. Also in this issue, Captain America battles Baron Zemo one-on-one and kills him. But that takes place in a far away country and is, at this point, unknown to the wider public.

In this issue:

Steve Rogers is contemplating a career change. As he does so, he notices the supervillains the Enchantress and the Executioner drive by, and he chases after them but they get away. Steve changes into his Captain America gear and reports back to the Avengers about the evil duo being in the city. They resolve to deal with them, but before they can do so, Rick Jones is kidnapped right in front of them by henchmen working for Baron Zemo. The Enchantress and the Executioner then break the Black Knight and the Melter out of prison and have them join their team with Zemo, the Masters of Evil. Iron Man and Thor do battle with the Black Knight and the Melter high above the city, while Giant-Man and the Wasp chase after the Enchantress and the Executioner at street level. The villains are ultimately defeated. At the same time, on a separate mission, Captain America locates Rick and frees him, with Zemo dying in the process by his own hand (accidentally).

Assumed before the next episode:

People are keeping an eye out in the streets for large muscular people in costumes, and then running for their lives so they are not caught up in a super-person battle.

This episode takes place:

After the Avengers have defeated the Masters of Evil.

Full transcript:

Edward: All right. That's what I'm talking about, Mike. We got the Avengers fighting a League of Evil super villains in the city. They're back to doing what we pay them to do.

Michael: Or somebody pays them to do , but definitely

Edward: our tax dollars at work. Mike, our tax dollars at work,

Michael: back to business, doing what we want them to do and not dealing with what was the last thing that they're caught up in, just. Regular,

Edward: regular, regular what wasn't like giant man dealing with the mafia, I just felt like know, like get, get, get back on track. We have police that can deal with the regular stuff, but when you have a guy who can melt walls and an enchant who's casting magic spells and an as guardian and executioner, now is the time to step in with superpower people.

Michael: That's right if we're anything Ed, we definitely believe in specialties and specialists. and superheroes are by definition specialists in super villains, not just, you know, rescuing cats stuck in trees and, and, uh,

Edward: oh, my, I would be mundane, angry if Thor was spending his time getting cats outta trees.

like, I feel like, like, not, not a good use of tax dollars. I dunno what we're paying him, but I figure we could pay someone a lot less to get the cats outta the trees. .

Michael: But that being said, if my cat got stuck in a tree, I'd rather Thor flew up there than I had to climb a tree and possibly break my neck trying to rescue the bloody cat. But anyways,

Edward: I, okay. Like you are not specialized in getting cats outta trees, that is not your specialty either. You stick to the law. Thor sticks to the super villains, and we can get the firefighters to get the cats out of the trees.

Michael: All right. I think we've settled on it, on what should happen, certainly with cats and trees, but also with superheroes addressing super villains and so, It's back to business as usual, not great that we had to have them as, you know, having evil super villains, the masters of evil coming back and battling the Avengers, but at least, yeah, fine. The Avengers are tackling this discreet issue.

Edward: Let's not even talk about the fact they're called the Masters of Evil. Again, we have the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, we have the Masters of Evil, we have the frightful four. Like these guys are just throwing themselves out there as being, I am not to be trusted.

Michael: I know. Bless. I don't know. It's like good and evil are just, there's no like room for gray in here. Maybe there's . There's no misunderstanding.

Edward: The masters of Gray we're the brotherhood of ambiguity, .

Michael: How about misunderstood, tough childhood and trying to work through it. People together in a union, fighting for own version of justice

Edward: I will say as a marketing guy the bigger problem is, it's just confusing because right, there's the brotherhood of evil, but, and there's the masters of evil, like, I think. The evil is the key word in both those brands and it's easy to confuse them. Mm-hmm. So to be clear, the masters of evil who fought the Avengers this week there was the melter who could melt metal, not magni, who could move metal. Totally different people, unrelated, different teams, different names, but the same team name. Using that evil.

Michael: There's some overlap there I guess, but I think they maybe, well you gotta wonder why they haven't consulted with, an agency about branding, which would make sense.

Edward: So the key thing on branding is, number one is be descriptive. And I guess they're being descriptive. We are evil, mean people. And they've handled that part of it. But you also need to differentiate yourself. The other people who are doing similar work. And so if there's two teams of evil people doing evil super stuff, you just can't, you need to find a new name for yourself. And Frightful four does it, right? Frightful four does not use the evil name. They went to their local Theora and they've, looked up evil and they're like, you know what else is similar to evil is frightful. How about frightful instead of evil? And they're like, let's go with it. And there's no confusion there. But I think Masters of Evil and Brotherhood of Evil, to me, those are too close. And one of them should re. .

Michael: That leads to the next question. We talked about lawyers might specialize in super powered people and insurance might be responsive to it. I wonder if there's any, well you would know, are there any agencies that deal with this kind of stuff?

Edward: I don't think it's, the market's not big enough, Mike. The market's not big enough. Hmm. And, and especially if you're dealing with, nobody wants to be the marketing agency to. The criminals and the mafia. There's no mafia doesn't have a marketing agency working for them. They might have marketers as part of their team, but it's not like they need, they don't need them the way they need, lawyers and accountants.

Michael: I'm not saying that General Electric is evil or anything, but you know, , they, they, they definitely, and they, they don't practice

Edward: the, the General Electric of Evil .

Michael: No, but I mean like, like they're big corporations that, that, actually I don't wanna get sued by General Electric never meant nevermind about that. But, but regardless, I would imagine that there's agencies that would, for the right price would certain. Wanna be engaged by the Masters of Evil to say, let's call yourselves, maybe not the masters of evil, but the master, you know, the brotherhood of people. I don't know. Or something. Brotherhood of people. Some kinda, some kinda like, I said the, brotherhood of evil. Like the idea is like there's some kind of more palatable name that they could have to achieve their goals. I would imagine

Edward: they could take the name they have right now, instead of the Masters of Evil, just be like, How about just the masters? The masters, the masters of super, the ma, the masters of powers, take the other characteristics they have other than evilness and lean. Lean into those. .

Michael: Yeah. Like maybe like, they're really smart, I don't think if they're getting in fights with the Avengers, they need people to tell them that they're the antagonist in this dispute. Cuz the Avengers have clearly occupied the superhero world. Why don't you just call them some, call themselves something else? Like the masters or the, uh, the terrifics or something. It's the positive. Be positive by yourself, the public.

Edward: Take the Avengers name and play that. Like, they can be the Avengers, like they can, they're the anti Avengers and the anti Avengers. You could define yourselves as being the opposite of your competitor.

Michael: And leave it open as to whether they're in the wrong or not, that's what I find so confusing about the branding of automatically saying, we are definitely in the wrong, we are evil people. Evil, evil, evil. Or we are frightful, terrible, terrible people, , we just call themselves the amazing four, let people find out that they're bad. ,

Edward: surprise, also evil.

Michael: Surprised I was evil. But you know, we kind of had you there. You bought our action figures, because we're the amazing four hey Rob banks and try to destroy nuclear powered, power stations. But anyways. Mm-hmm. we're the amazings,

Edward: I think the part of the has become is we don't see a lot of rebranding we've seen groupings of superheroes that come together and created a new brand, but the Avengers haven't decided, oh, we're gonna change our name. Or the Fantastic Four haven't been like, you know what? We've, we totally made a mistake. There is a possibility we could add a fifth member . Um, we need a new name. Um, yeah. It seems like everybody's commit. Well, I guess with one exception, ant Man has rebranded, right? Right. But apart, but apart from Ant Man, everybody's basically stuck with the. Brand since they started. We have any superhero that's switched brands along the way, or super villain for that. .

Michael: No. And again, I kind of was being a little tongue in cheek about having agencies that might be involved in branding, but there's probably something to it, if not the name, certainly in the costumes or the outlook or the perspective on, or at least the narrative that they wanna advance. Because we do know that there are some superheroes who are more popular than others, why is Captain America more popular than Spider-Man? It might. because of the name. It might be because he's not covering his whole face. It might be just a costume, but, I'd imagine that there's something there. There's value in being popular and being celebrities as we know the fantastic force. Certainly there's a value in that and a financial benefit to that. So you think it might be worth their time to actually consult? Maybe a lot of them have, certainly the Fantastic four have already consulted with a brand expert and they say, you know, yeah, sure you might be limited in your membership numbers, but you're doing everything else right? You have a very clean, clear lines in your costumes. You're not hiding your face. You don't even have se secret entities. And that's led to them being not only popular, but making money from the whole enterprise. And you gotta wonder, maybe other people would. From it. Or they've already gone through it and just are just trying to play out the whole marketing plan.

Edward: We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We can just see the effects and like I can say there are certain things that are pretty consistent in the world of branding that are important. Mm-hmm. , so things like affiliating your brand with good things. , right? So this is why we run advertisements. That's why beer commercials show people drinking beer and having fun. And now you say, oh, you know what, if I drink beer, maybe I will have fun too. Maybe I will be surrounded by attractive women. And I think there's no difference in superheroes where if Spider-Man is continually getting affiliated with bad things, we start to affiliate Spider-Man as being bad. And if Captain America's affiliated with winning World War ii, which was a pretty good thing that. Leans off onto his brand. So that's number one. Number two is brand longevity matters a lot too. So a brand that's been around for a long time, people tend to like the things that stick around. And part of that's a trust thing because if you have a brand that's brand new, you don't know whether to trust it or not. But if something's been around, like ivory soap has been around for 60 years or something like that, they have a pretty good consistent record on, they're gonna do, they're gonna make you clean. And I think that's part of the reason why Captain America is so loved is he's been around longer time and they, he's consistently stuck on message and delivered that same message over and over and over again, over an extended period of time. And so we can trust him. But Spider-Man, he's like a brand new dude who knows what's what he's gonna do.

Michael: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Well, yeah. And of course, this is something you have an expertise in about branding. But that leads to the question then. But the question I asked earlier is do you think that most these of these superheroes have consulted with a brand expert?

Edward: No. No, of course not. No. they not talking to anybody. They peop, but like, just like most companies don't spend a lot of time with brand experts. They figure out things on their own, uh, and mm-hmm. and the biggest companies have lot. They're spending money on everything. But smaller companies, and I think most superheroes, you can think of them as fairly small companies. They're small, like little tiny startups trying to figure stuff out and they're not gonna have a budget to go. Spiderman doesn't a budget these spending on public relations people and a marketing team and a advertising organization and like they, they don't have that stuff. Most celebrities may have a publicist and a manager at best. And I think most superheroes are behind. .

Michael: Well then let's talk about the one superhero who seems to be constantly rebranding and who would probably benefit from having some assistance. Antman, I mean, giant Man. I mean, okay. , whatever he is. How many costume ?

Edward: Well, he's just had three. Right. So he had Antman and he was fairly consistent as Aunt Man. Yeah. And then he rebranded to Giant Man, and that was very confusing. Yeah. For a long time we didn't even know the Giant Man and Antman were the same person. And then, and now he has a new costume again, so this is. His second rebrand, and as far as I know, he's sticking with the name this time. He's not rebranding the name, just the look and. .

Michael: But it's sort of funny, so if you go through those cautions first, when he is ant man, he clearly looked like, he's small and stuff and it's just like a red costume and stuff. And then when he is giant man, he still had those sort of funny antennas on his, head that suggests like, all right, okay, and he's bigger, he's walking around and like all giant, he's a giant now. He's a giant ant. Like it's just like, why don't you just call yourself like big aunt or something, and then, cuz that's what he's like, why if you're now giant, man, when I think of giants, I don't think of having an antennas on their heads, but whatever. That's what he did and now he seems to have. Well, let me think about, look at the news. Did he, does he still have those antenna on his head in his new costume?

Edward: I don't even know. I haven't, I should have done more research. I feel like I haven't spent time really examining this new costume of his

Michael: Well, regardless, it's another rebranding and so that's where I'm wondering. Okay. If he, if this isn't part of a plan, then what is it? Is it just that he's like, I don't know, I don't say this, but insecure about his, you know, he's just like, oh gosh, doesn't make me look so good.

Edward: So I think it's like, Hey, stay. Staying with a consistent costume can't be easy on any of these guys. Now the advantage is they don't need to think of what they're gonna wear in the morning, but the disadvantages is how many costumes do they have to have? Like you, you and I, I think I have a fairly consistent brand in terms of what I wear. I don't wear, I'm not gonna show up to work in like, I don't know, green tights. I'm gonna wear the consistent clothes every time I go to work. , but it doesn't mean I wear exactly the same clothes. I might have a blue suit or a black suit. I might wear a white collar or a blue collar. I feel like I can change up within a range. Yeah. It feels like superheroes don't do that and maybe giant man is just trying that. He's like, you know what, today, I just didn't feel like the antennas.

Michael: Well, okay. Just to loop back on that, I've looked at the, the reporting still going with the antennas, , I don't get it, but regardless,

Edward: he's, keeping, so there you go. That's his consistent theme. Yeah. He was like, he was an ant man to a giant man, to a, new giant man, and he kept like the ant theme all the way along. And, that's a branding choice too. So you take some brand elements and you carry them forward so people can still, when they walk into the store to pick up their. Tide, the new Tide brand looks different, but it looks similar enough to the old brand. They're not gonna get confused.

Michael: Okay. So he is following some of the rules that you've identified, but when you're talking about this costume idea, so leaving aside the branding issue is just how is it working with costumes? Because, you know, like I like to exercise as you, as you know, and so do you, and I've got a number of outfits that I use. For any other reason than practicality. If I exercise, I need to wash the clothing right away. So these guys are like, let's say take Spider-Man for example. That guy is swinging through the city. He must be sweating like crazy . And you think he just goes home? Is he doing laundry every single night,

Edward: Do you think he has a summer version of his costume and a winter version? When it's cold out, he wears his warm tights and then the summer he's wearing I dunno, really, really thin tights.

Michael: You'd have to, it'd be a winter weight and a summer weight but also on top of that, in the summer, you probably have to have way more versions of this costume . And so who's making it for him? Or is he just laundering it every night? Who made it to begin with, but then. , who's clean, who's continuing to make other costumes for 'em, or same version of the costume, which looks complicated. You see all the design elements and then clean.

Edward: I guarantee if I was a superhero, I would be wearing block colors. There's no way I'm gonna making, these are like small black lines on my, I'd be like, I'm gonna wear red and I'm gonna go buy some red stuff and just make a red costume. The idea of sewing together the blue and the red, and then to your point, not doing it once. It's not like the guy behind Spider-Man's mask is, maybe he's a tailor for his side job, but, he's not making one costume. To your point. He, he must have dozens of costumes for the different seasons and, for the smell. If he has so many and to make them all identical.

Michael: Yeah, it's quite an enterprise and to my knowledge, I don't think Spider-Man makes money from what he's doing so it's quite an investment. It's not just one costume. Maybe he could have gotten away with having a few of those costumes if he just was dressed in all black, for instance, with a funny mask and maybe you don't to, well, he had to wash the mask every night. If you're wearing this full head on mask, It probably It would stink too.

Edward: Yeah, like crazy. And maybe that's, maybe he only has one or two costumes and he just washes them every night. He goes home. He has his own, he's clearly not taking them to like a public, dry cleaners. He probably has his washing dryer in his house and he's just running the washer and dryer. Every he gets home, takes off his outfit, washes it, dries it, and it's ready to go the next day.

Michael: Or has the most discreet laundromat in the world, , you know, in addition to the most discreet Taylor, but that's not just him, right? It's all the, these heroes, they present with the same costume. And if we're comparing them to say, The police or the military, they have multiple versions of their outfits when they're on duty, when they have to wear outfits for work. It's mindblowing to me. So let's go to a team element, I'd imagine that, if you want to find out, I suspect they all know who each other are on this, on the Avengers. So we wonder if, find out who they were. I bet if they all are having their costumes washed by somebody or they're having mul tailors, , you know, prepare their costumes for, somebody's gonna speak about it. You know what I mean? It should, they should find out. Oh,

Edward: well the Avengers are different though, right? The Avengers, we know they we're close with Star Corp. I'm sure Star Corp has like a supply of tailors and stuff to make these costumes, right? So whatever giant man's secret identity is, he's not taking the costume to a tailor a secret identity. He's just passing it into the, through the stark corpse team of people and they make the costume. They probably have industrial cleaners that take care of it every night for them. I think that's all very

Michael: standardized. . Can you imagine? What's your job? It's star carp. Okay, I've got a really top secret job, but job, I can't talk about it. And then as this man's telling his wife, I can't even talk about my job. It's star carp. I just cannot tell you. I can't tell you what I do. And then he's sitting alone in a dark room. He's like, I wash giant man's clothing. .

Edward: I get, I get, that's what I do. I get the stand. You think your trouble tough, he was attacked by a lava monster. Getting lava stains out of these costumes is impossible.

Michael: yeah. It's just like it. But that's what it would have to be. , it would be top secret, right? To keep his identity secret. So whoever's washing his clothing would have to like oh. Under, under penalty of like imprisonment. Don't tell, you can't tell anybody. You know anything about Captain America's the underwear he wears outside of his pants or whatever. It's just wild to me. It's just what a job.

Edward: Well, I think I, we figured out the number one recruiting technique. I feel like if I'm an independent hero now, the number one reason to join the Avengers is not the money. It's not the fame , it's the laundry service.

Michael: Sign me up, Eddie. Sign me up.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the increased police presence in the city and how that is affecting both real and perceived crime. Is this because police have less to do as a result of the superheroes helping out? Is the presence of superheroes itself causing criminals to give up lives of crime, and maybe even become heroes? More to the point, is that what happened with the Green Goblin - he was inspired to become a hero? If so, why has he not changed his appearance? Does he want to be scary, or is what he truly looks? And how the heck does he balance on that glider - does he have abs of steel?

Behind the Issue:

This is the third appearance of the Green Goblin. Clearly, he does not become a hero. Steve Ditko and Stan Lee decided to keep the Goblin’s identity secret, but behind the scenes they were debating who he should be. Lee wanted him to be someone from Peter’s life, but Ditko wanted him to be a stranger. The disagreement meant that the Goblin’s identity remained a secret from the readers until Ditko left the title (the Goblin’s identity was revealed in the first issue after Ditko was replaced). Oh, the drama!

In this issue:

The Green Goblin tries to take over the New York City underworld, and while they are not convinced, he is definitely scaring them. Meanwhile, Peter Parker notices that former reporter and criminal Frederick Foswell is back at the Bugle. Apparently, the Bugle’s publisher J. Jonah Jameson believes in redemption, or at least the value in giving people a second chance. Peter is not convinced that this is a redemption story, though, and he tails Foswell, whom he notices speaking with a thug. Foswell turns over information to Jameson that the thug had on a crime boss, who in turn provides this information to the police. The Goblin is overjoyed with these pieces falling into place - he has set this whole thing up to help him with his hostile takeover of the world of crime. Peter then changes into his Spider-Man outfit and tracks the Goblin, who tricks him into conflict with a mob boss and his lieutenants. Spider-Man basically does the Goblin’s dirty work, taking out the gang and leaving them for the police. Realizing he has been played for the fool, Spider-Man finds and attacks the Goblin, who gets away. It’s not all roses for the Goblin, though, who is disappointed to find out that Spider-Man did too good a job when he took down the mob boss and his entire gang, with the result that the Goblin had no gang to take over.

Assumed before the next episode:

The Green Goblin is going to need to rethink his whole gang takeover strategy.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man took down an entire gang.

Full transcript:

Edward: Feeling safer these days? Mike?

Michael: No. ? No, I wouldn't say so. ,

Edward: I feel like, like there's increased police presence on the streets. They're putting some crime bosses away. Is New York not a safer place than it was even a few weeks ago?

Michael: Oh, well I guess that's standard than maybe, but I definitely have noticed a greater police presence in the last little while, certainly since the, a. Population of superpowered individuals on the scene. Do I feel safer before buildings could be captured and kidnapped and brought into space? I wouldn't say so in, you know, multiple invasions in New York City, but

Edward: so, so, so, so clearly. Life is less safe now than it was in 1960 before.

Michael: Right

Edward: buildings. Were getting torn away, but I'm just talking about recently, like recently it feels like the superheroes are out on the streets. There's a bunch of them now. It feels like they're covering the ground around the monsters and the super villains, and that's freeing up the police to go and take out the normal villains.

Michael: Well, I think so. I have noticed that there's more police for sure. I, don't know what element of that is performative and what element is that the costume vigilantes that we speak about every week have been in addition to attacking gods and monsters and aliens have also been attacking street level crime as well. There is no doubt that Ant-Man and now Giant-Man and Spider-Man and all the insect related heroes, I suppose are trying to deal with some street level justice, which probably is freeing up some time for the police to focus on other things, other elements of society that require policing. That's my guess. Or, is his performatively they're just trying to show that maybe they shouldn't be ignored. Yes, there's people flying through the air, but we're the police, darn it. And we're in the. Keeping you safe, .

Edward: Yeah. That, that, that is something, right? If that performativeness makes us feel safer, it could also make the criminals feel less safe and drive the criminals back into the holes they came from.

Michael: Maybe. It could, but I still wonder if it's just performative. It's almost just trying to get attention, if you know what I mean. Like it's like everyone's talking about Iron Man, but don't they know we're the real heroes, , and it's like

Edward: the, the every we have, we need more, less kids. Dressing up as Iron Man and more kids dressing up as everyday police officers.

Michael: That's right.

Edward: Let's have more realistic dreams. Kids. . .

Michael: Yeah. Unless you are a super science genius, can invent your own costume, you should probably apply to the police academy

Edward: don't expect to be superhero. Just be a regular, everyday hero.

Michael: Yeah. And that's good enough. But no, but seriously, I guess I haven't made my mind up. I'd be curious about the statistics. let's just call it regular crime and whether police are being freed up to deal with more of the regular crime that's why we're noticing it. And if they aren't, if there's no real change in how much, in the impact of like regular crime and how it's being policed, then I think it is performative. And it just seems like they're just trying to get some of the attention. I have a mixed mind, not when it comes to the police in general, it's just they're not there to tell me what to do and not to do they're there to investigate crimes and well, and,

Edward: and they've, and they, so they've had some successes lately, right? So, lucky Lobos basically says whole criminal enterprise got all swooped up. The Frederick Farwell, a former crime boss himself outta prison now working for the daily bugle, put together a. Basically did investigative reporting figured out where all of Lucky Lobo's financial records were kept and, blew it out to the police. And they shut down, not just the head of the family, but basically shut down the entire operation and that's gotta reduce crime. ?

Michael: Well, yeah, it would, I think, I'm not saying that there haven't been some recent successes, it's just that I'd like to see that's more anecdotal. Or at least there's a recency effect here. I'd like to see what has been the impact? I guess I'd express it this way. What has been the impact of having superheroes and super villains out in, say, New York City on the ability of police to police regular crime? If there has been any impact, so is it that the superpowered individuals are taking care of that and a little bit of regular crimes such there's more effort being put into a policing regular crime or if it's just no impact at all. And it's just for show, I don't know.

Edward: It's interesting when I was in business school, one of the studies that we looked at was about crime in cities. And clearly like when crime goes down, real estate prices go up. And so we, well, we cared about in business school was money Mike and how forget about safety, but how safety affects money. But the point was, When you could, one way to drive down crime and drive up real estate prices was to basically do us like a spike of policing. Because if crime was at a relatively low level, that meant the police that you had on duty could identify any new crime that happens and shut it down. But if crime is at a really high level, the same number of police can't handle all that crime, and crime goes unenforced, which then encourages more crime, cause you can get away with it. Your chances are getting cock down. And so you need to drive it down to a low level and then keeping. At that low level is a lot easier than getting it there to begin with. And so I wonder if this, like the spike in policing that we've seen, the performative nature of it, the fact that we have these superheroes doing stuff. Has that driven crime down to a level now that it's gonna be easier to maintain at a low level. And it's driving even super villains to become superheroes like so the Green Goblin, for example, now he's gone from being a villain to like apparently being a hero. And maybe that's because crime doesn't pay anymore. let's switch to the other side.

Michael: Before we get to the Green Goblin, I understand the point you're making, maybe, I mean, again, but I think as a business person, you would like to see the data as would I, but I'm a little confused. Why are you saying the Green Goblin is, is acting like a hero?

Edward: So Green Goblin was involved in this whole shutdown of The lucky Lobo criminal gang, he helped take them on and he was seen battling them and taking out the crime bosses. He's working for the good guys.

Michael: Yeah, Goblin's always worked for the good guys.

Edward: Are you saying? Saying maybe if he's gonna switch sides, he should change his name too and become like the green? I don't know. Green Elf, .

Michael: I don't know. He is got this goblin mask, he looks frightening on purpose. So are you sure he's on the side of the angels now, ed, you don't see that maybe taking out a whole. Might be in the interest of someone who's previously acting like a villain and attacking the city.

Edward: Oh, so you're saying that he's just taking out his competition?

Michael: Well, I mean that's, yeah, I mean, cuz The Thing is, okay, how about this? Previously he was acting like a villain, dressed up like a goblin, and he's frightening. He's on this glider, he is throwing bombs. at a, I think wasn't at a TV state. At a, at a tv

Edward: Wait, at, at, the fan event, the Spider-Man fan event. He was like terrorizing people.

Michael: I think it was being filmed too, but whatever it was, it's certainly at a fan event. So that's a criminal? Who should be locked up? And so do we have such a short-term memory that he just is still wearing the same stuff with the same equipment? And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm good now. Well, he really

Edward: yes and no. So we assumed he was a villain, but we also assumed that Spider-Man was a villain, right? There was a lot of assumptions flying around with these people, and it's not like Spider-Man and the Human, Torch haven't had public battles in Times Square, like the go what did the Goblin really do in his past event? He basically tried to attack Spider-Man, but like, it feels like everybody wants to attack Spider-Man. Maybe he's just like a guy who like has a grief with Spider-Man and now he's like trying to do.

Michael: Wasn't he throwing bombs at crowds of people?

Edward: Wasn't the Human Torch throwing like fireballs at crowds of people?

Michael: I don't think he, no, I don't think he was at crowds of people, but I don't know. But may I assume you're right.

Edward: They were in New York City and there were fireballs going around and there were people in New York City. Now nobody got hurt, but I don't think anyone got hurt from the goblins bombs either, did they? .

Michael: I don't know off the top of my head, but I think there's a difference between throwing a bomb into a crowd of people and then actually being engaged in a fight. But anyways, I don't wanna make that go down, that so far cuz then we get the whole idea that you're right, they shouldn't be fighting in crowded places, but let's, okay, let's assume he's the go, the green goblins now a hero. You're a business guy. Is this good marketing? Like should he, what if he just got a new costume?

Edward: Fair enough.

Michael: He's truly on the side of angels and just changed it. So he looks like, I don't know, the,

Edward: well, here's the other thing. Do we know it's a costume? Patel? Maybe he's like a Defor. Maybe he's like, that's his face. Like do we know it's like an actual mask? Maybe It's like, like, I dunno, like the Hulk looks kind of weird and stuff like there, there's all sorts of villains.

Michael: I think it's a rubber mask. I, I think that the reporting shows it's a rubber mask. It's not like as a skin texture, but,

Edward: maybe his, I think he, like Mike, we live in a world of monsters and aliens. Maybe his face just looks like a rubber mask, , and the poor guy can't change his face. The poor guy is like this ugly. Deformed thing that was driven into crime because it was deformity and people were making fun of him, mocking him, people like you. And now he's trying to go to the side of good and we're still mocking his like ugly.

Michael: So you heard it here first, folks, ed, nevermind humanitarian, , goblin, goblin, defender,

Edward: . I'm just, I'm just saying that not enough people defend the ugly people. People like there are focus groups and there are groups that help all these different people who have a tough time in life, but there's no group of like the Association of Ugly people that helps people like,

Michael: Ed, I think that you've got the organizational skills. I think you're the person that should do that. But I wanna talk about one other thing before we go on to your pledge drive to help the criminally ugly people in the world. But what do you think about the green goblin? And I was, I was kind of thinking about this for a while. Like, what do you think about the fact that he is flying around on a glider like technology that doesn't exist? Right? He flies through the air at fantastic speeds. On the one you think, he must be a genius to invent that. But on the other hand, don't you think he would take some special training in order to manage that? Like I as a kid found a skate. Challenging, you know what I mean? as an adult,

Edward: many people can use skateboards. Michael , many people use skateboards.

Michael: It's, yeah. But to really use it like, to do tricks and whatever and to go down the street. But as an adult, I think I would find it impossible. But what do you think, but what kind of skill level would it take to properly manage that glider? I mean, we've seen it. We've seen it in action. It's incredible what he can do with it.

Edward: Clearly, clearly the goblin has some skills.

Michael: Some skills, but where do, where does he get the skills? So he gets it from, is he actually a military trained operative who's now broken, bad or good? Depending upon your view of him. Is he like,

Edward: maybe, maybe he's just a really skilled skateboarder.

Michael: really skills skateboarder . But what if he's a foreign national scent here to just ferment descent? I mean, I don't know, but that's the first things that jump to mind, right?

Edward: Yeah. Yeah. So , it's po It's possible maybe I'm a foreign national here to do dissent. Who knows. I think jumping to the conclusion just because this poor man is ugly, that therefore he is a foreign national Michael. Like, like they're, they're ugly people Are, they're ugly Americans as well,

Michael: what I'm saying. Forget the, you're the one calling him ugly, by the way. I'm not like, I've never called the,

Edward: you said he's so ugly and he must be wearing a mask that no human can look as bad as this poor man looks .

Michael: I think he's wearing a mask. I definitely think that, but you're the one that calls it ugly. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make though, is that to talk about what is where do you think the green goblin's from? Right, and I think the ability in and of itself to fly in that glider tells me that he's had some training.

Edward: Or, or maybe he has like superpowers, like other people do. Like Spider-Man, I dunno. Like spider, I'm pretty sure Spider-Man doesn't climb walls and fly on webs cuz of training. He's not like some foreign national or military guy. He has like some sort of superpowers that give him like the powers of a spider. Maybe the green goblin has like the powers of a goblin. .

Michael: Yeah. He's got like an amazing core, . so strong, and he's like, he's like, his quads are unbelievable. Just like the power of like standing crouched like that and flying at like standing upright, well, flying through the air at 50 miles an hour. The amount of strength that takes.

Edward: He's, he's ripped man. The man is ripped. So all you women out there that are worried about his ugly face, but he's a ripped body. You know, this is the trade off that sometimes has have with men. But I think Spider-Man for example without any, I think additional training could be riding that glider, captain America could be riding that glider. Right. We, we have a lot, we have a lot of these superheroes that have special abilities. To me, it makes sense that the goblin has these special abilities too, and the fact that he, and, maybe he didn't invent the glider himself. Maybe Tony Stark invented the glider and gave it to somebody who had the superpowers to be able to use it. .

Michael: I'll tell you what I think that the Green Goblin, if he's listening to our show, should feel comfortable coming on our show because , hi,

Edward: because it's a radio show and it's no video, so he doesn't have to worry about his ugly appearance.

Michael: no, I never said he is ugly and he is clearly gonna offend and Ed, who thinks he's a good guy? So, come on the show Goblin, but leave your goblin pouch outside with the bombs.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the peace treaty between Earth and the Skrull Empire, as negotiated by Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four. How does Reed have the authority to sign such a treaty on behalf of Earth? Do the ends justify the means? Don’t the Fantastic Four have a conflict of interest given that a Skrull killed Sue Storm’s father? How would we feel if a Russian super team completed this negotiation? And now that we have gone to another galaxy, are we going to be able to go to Mars?

More detailed summary of the podcast (from AI):

Edward and Michael are discussing the Fantastic Four's recent mission to the Skrull’s home world. Edward believes that peace has been achieved, thanks to the efforts of Reed Richards. Michael is skeptical and points out that there is no evidence to support Reed's claims, and that the Fantastic Four's actions could be seen as hostile and unauthorized. He questions who authorized the mission and if it was sanctioned by the United Nations. Edward believes that sometimes the US needs to take action, even if it's not sanctioned by the UN, and that in this case, it worked out. Michael is concerned about what would happen if it didn't work out.

Behind the issue:

This is the first appearance of the Skrull home world, but it is not named here (and is not named until 1983 — “Tarnax IV”). The Skrulls keep their promise not to invade Earth for three years, but change their minds in Captain Marvel #2 when they discover that the Kree had an interest in the planet.

In this issue:

Sue Storm is unhappy that the Skrulls were not punished for killing her father. This leads to Reed Richards deciding to take the team to the Skrulls’ homeworld to bring the murderer of Sue’s father to justice. And so the team embarks on this mission, flying in a spaceship of Reed’s design, and with the blessing of NASA. They land on the Skrull. homeward and battle the Skrulls, leading to their capture. They are held captive by the Skrull who murdered Sue’s father, Morrat, who plans to murder the Fantastic Four too. Just before they are killed, Reed offers Morrat unlimited power in exchange for sparing their lives. Meanwhile, Morrat’s girlfriend Anelle tells her father, the Skrull King, that Morrat has captured the Fantastic Four. This angers the King, who races to confront Morrat. Before he arrives, it is revealed that Reed tricked Morrat into repowering the team (they had been depowered when they were captured), and this time the Four are about to defeat the Skrulls when the King arrives with reinforcements. Anelle is nearly killed by accident by the soldiers during their standoff with the Fantastic Four but is saved by Sue’s invisible forcefield. This leads to Reed negotiating with the King to deliver to them the Skrull who killed Sue’s father. They learn that it was Morrrat, who has been killed in the firefight. The Fantastic Four then journey home, safe and sound from their adventure.

Assumed before the next episode:

Reed starts to wonder how far he will go to impress Sue. What do you do after nearly starting an intergalactic war?

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four return from their wildly irresponsible revenge mission to the Skrull homeward.

Full transcript:

Edward: Reed Richards has done it again, Mike. There is peace in the world. Peace in the universe. There's peace in the galaxy in the entire universe. We are no longer at war with the scrolls. Thank you. Reed. Richards.

Michael: Well, okay. ? Yes. If we believe what Reed Richards says, then sure. But much like a lot of Reed Richard. Advice to us about battles and adventures that are unseen. There's no other proof beyond his good word. And what's kind of crazy right now is that what we're talking about is how Reed Richards and his team, the Fantastic Four, went to the scroll home world.

Edward: That's right. We took the battle to them. They've been invading us, and we said, you know what? Enough of this, we're gonna take the battle over. I was gonna say overseas, but it's not overseas. It's over stars. What do we have vocabulary for? What they.

Michael: over empty space. They went to the squirrel home world. A home world of people of, sorry, of like beings that can shapeshift and turn into,

Edward: I think you can call them people. I think squirrels are people.

Michael: Well, okay, let's call 'em people. They,

Edward: they're not human people, but they're still people. Like, I think that we can use the broad definition of people. I think it could be insulting to call them. Not people. They're an animals. They're, they're people.

Michael: Okay, well, sure, we'll call 'em people. So, but they're people that can take the form of anybody. So we're taking the word of Reed. Richards that he. To the scroll home world to negotiate a peace treaty, but at the same time also bring a killer to justice like somebody who killed his future father-in-law to justice. So let's break this down a little bit. ,

Edward: there's a lot going on here, Mike. And we haven't even gone to the fact they didn't go there alone. They combine the technology that they've developed with research scientists at NASA in order to develop this, subspace traveler to travel to other galaxies. Like we've just opened up the universe for human explor.

Michael: Okay. That's fascinating. And so, and I,

Edward: you don't seem to care, like you don't seem to care on these

Michael: I aren't you, Lou, aren't you a little worried, ed, that it looks like either, there's a few things happening. Number one, the Fantastic Four took it upon themselves to basically invade a planet for no shifting people.

Edward: It was with, nasa, it was Fantasic, Four, and nasa.

Michael: I haven't read that being, I know that they had NASA technology, but did NASA Greenlight the plan to go invade another planet, to grab somebody and then also negotiate a peace treaty? And does NASA has a capability to do that? Is that within their authority?

I doubt it. Number one, ,

Edward: I don't know. I'm not sure The founding fathers really decided on what NASA could or could not do, was wasn't on their list of priorities when they were making the constitution in the 1700.

Michael: Well, it, it wouldn't be, but that's just assuming that this only affects America, which it doesn't. What happened here is that American citizens went to another planet and in a hostile way to grab one of their citizens to bring them to justice, number one. And number two then apparently had free reign to negotiate a peace treaty with these people. And that isn't,

Edward: what do you prefer? They didn't, Mike, do you want them to go there and then start a war? They went there and they ended a war. That's good. That's good news.

Michael: Well, I don't know. I mean, this is what we're hearing.

Edward: What you don't know. You don't know. Do you want us to be at war with them? You, we. Peace is good news, right? We can agree on.

Michael: No, no, but hold on a second. We have to go through the proper channels on this to figure out this is done right, and this is actually in our interest. So number one, who green lit this? Who authorized this? Is this an American thing only or is this on behalf of the world? Did they go to the United Nations and get, and somehow, for the first time in human history, Get all the nations to agree to one thing, which was that we're gonna send these four people who aren't trained in any form of diplomacy to go there in an active war and negotiate peace. That is wild to me that that would be authorized by anybody.

Edward: Well, I'm pretty sure the UN did not authorize it, but if we waited for the UN to authorize things, nothing would get done and we'd still be at war with the scrolls. And so sometimes the US has to take things into their own hands and just take action. And we did take action and it worked out.

Michael: Okay, this time, okay, let's say what would happen to it if it didn't work out. Like it's like we send the Americans send these envoys being the Fantastic four who have no training in this type of activity of negotiating peace. Send 'em over and it backfires. And at least the, to this girls actually, redoubling their efforts to take over the earth. Well, and it's not just Americans pay the price of the entire, it'd be the entire Earth.

Edward: Are we at, would we be at any worse place than we were?

Michael: Yes,

Edward: the scrolls were already ready to, these girls have already attempted at least two or three invasions that we know of. They're, they're coming after us. They're trying to take over our planet, and now they're.

Michael: So I'm wondering yet if they're trying to invade us because Reed Richards ghost to their planet and kidnap their citizens . You know what I mean?

Edward: Like this is the, this is the first time he's gone there. They, unprovoked, they came after us and they came after us again and again trying to take over our planet and now we've turned the tables on them. This is like Japan has attacked us in World War ii. And we turned the table and said, no, no, no, you can't take our Hawaii. We're gonna come after you and go to your islands. And that's what we did. And we did it well enough. And, and not only did we do it well enough, we did it with a small little Strikeforce team. We didn't have to blow up a scroll planet or even a scroll city. He went in and spoke with the emperor himself, herself, emperor somebody. He, negotiated with somebody over there and they've agreed to not attack us. .

Michael: But Ed, if you bring in like the, world War II and America fighting Japan. Japan attacked America and America responded by. That was an act of war, which led to America actually fighting Japan, which is, yeah, I don't wanna sound too Pollyanna, but limited between those two countries. At least at the start of it, right before the countries actually can volun, can actually declare war on the other nation here effectively. The United States declared war on the scrolls and there

Edward: no declared war on the planet Earth and they and America stepped up and got them to say, No,

Michael: no, but America has to go, has to go through the proper channels. They can't just decide something so significant about going to war with another nation without actually getting the rest of the world on board with it.

Edward: Well, they're not, but they're not going to war with the other nation. The other. The nation declared war, not the nation, the emperor, the empire, the squirrel empire declared war. On earth, on all the countries on earth. Cause they don't care to them. We're all the same. We're all, we're all people, we're all humans. And so the US says Hey, no one else is taking care of this. No one else has the technology to take care of this. But this fantastic four working with nasa, developed the technology to go after the scroll home world. And they went straight there and they negotiated a piece so that the scrolls, wouldn. Anyone on Earth again, it wasn't like they negotiated a piece just with America. They could have done that, but why would that, that would be a terrible thing for them to do. They said, Hey scrolls, go ahead and invade our planet as long as you leave this continent alone.

Michael: How would you have felt if Russia, which does have Superpowered individuals and does have, technology, what, how would you feel that they went to the scroll world and tried to do what the Fantastic four did and it back.

Edward: Well be a, be a problem if we backfired. But it didn't back. If it didn't backfire. If the Russians went over there and negotiated the scrolls, I'd be like, given like a little swastika, high five, no, well, not swastika. What do they have? Would I be doing that hammered hammer sickle? I'd give a little sickle high five. There are enemies, but they, but they helped us. They would, and that's great. Sometimes the Russians and the Americans need to get together. Were on the same side to stop the squirrels from.

Michael: But Ed, but so right now on our earth, we actually have international organizations that are designed to work cooperatively to actually achieve the goals of the group, right? We have the United Nations, which is the entire earth. We have nato, which actually is set up to to deal with the Warsaw Pack group of countries. And so there, it's not like one NATO country could decide to attack Russia without having. , quite frankly, the rest of the nations in NATO objecting to it. There's a system in place and I think the same thing should happen here when it comes to dealing with intergalactic relations.

Edward: Well, maybe there was May.

Michael: I don't understand why there isn't.

Edward: May, maybe there maybe NASA and Fantasic Four talked to the rest of nato. I don't know. We don't know exactly what the channels they went through. I'm pretty sure they did not ch check in with the Soviets before they did it. But I think that's just the world we live in. We live in a in the, in reality, we don't wanna be sharing our subspace travel technology with the Russians for as long as we can anyway.

Michael: But right now, the first question is there a clear and present danger presented by the scrolls to the planet Earth? And you're saying, well, because they've invaded before and they've been repelled. The answer is yes. Okay, fine. Assuming that's correct, then, is it that every country for itself can deal, can figure out how to deal with it and then how do they and I think the answer has to be no, it has to be that there's no,

Edward: you're right, you're right.

Michael: You're in a democratic, the democratic nations that are involved in military alliances that they wouldn't actually consult with us to figure out what the right plan is. I dealt the right plan. If I was in, involved in it would be, we're gonna send these, just these four people. If you're really truly deciding to invade this grow planet. You probably had a lot more than four people, but

Edward: Well, they were trying to invade though, they were trying to create peace. They were, they were creating peace. They're not, they weren't, you're not gonna invade a planet with four people, but maybe traveling through subspace in these spaceships. We probably don't have the technology to send battalions. We don't have the technology to send warships and stuff with us. We have this technology to send four people, and so we sent the four people that we thought could handle it, and they did.

Michael: Well, they didn't consult me and you and I aren't doing interview this. I'm offended on behalf of the rest of the earth, number one. But number two, I would say this, if they consulted with the Avengers, they could have had access to giant man's technology, shrunk them, everybody down, shrunk down, all like the ships and the planes and all the soldiers and stuff, and then gone there instead of letting Reed Richards go off in some kind of, Cowboy Justice Mission to, to grab the scroll that had killed Sue storm's, father, and then incidentally negotiate peace, which is I think, which is what I think happened. I'd rather have had an authorized military action by the world, or at least the majority of the world, it's something that, at at least smacks of democracy or democratic approach to these things because there's the consequences will be felt not just by America, but by the entire world. And then actually start thinking about using the technology that we know exists in a proper military application in a military way.

Edward: I lo I love the idea of giant man shrinking down the US military into ants and sending the whole whole army over there. And hopefully growing them when they get to the other side. Otherwise, Having a bunch of ants fighting that this girls made have been a problem. But, I think it be hard, but the risk with that now is now you're risking a real war. Right? If we go and actually invade their planet with thousands and thousands or hundreds of thousands of soldiers, that risks escalating the war, and instead of escalating, we sent four people who they went in, they had a polite conversation with the emperor explained the miscommunication, explained that we were a people's too, and that we shouldn't be invaded. And if they did invade, we would hit back hard. And they were able to prevent intergalactic war.

Michael: But that's my discomfort. They sent the fantastic floor who clearly had a bone to pick with the scrolls and were looking for a tray. They were trying to get them the person or the, the scroll that had killed, one of their fathers. I don't think that's how typical diplomacy works. It's not like we send over emissaries to like Russia. We don't send like the son or daughter of somebody who's killed by a bunch of Russian spies or soldiers. They might have a bit of too much skin in the game for that. They might not be objective when they're negotiating the peace treaty, I think would, I'd rather send somebody over that ha could be a little more objective and uh, and.

Edward: Yeah, fair enough. Can negotiate properly. Sometimes you go to war with the army. You have not the army that you dream of, right? Like we had the Fantastic four who were able to go and do this. They had the technology to get over there. They had the diplomatic skills to do it. And did they have some conflicts of interest? Sure. . But, but, but, but they, they, they worked around those conflicts of interest and they saw, they saved the day. They saved the planet. They saved potentially the galaxy. They may have saved the universe, and I think we should give them some credit.

Michael: Well. . Okay. Tell you what, let's just, at the risk of making this ad hominem, you sound like a typical business person saying, sure, there's some conflict of interest. is, did we, did we break the law? Did we do something that was totally in our own self-interest? Guilty is charged, and I'm saying as a lawyer, it's a conflict of interest. Hold on a second. That poisons the whole, in that the whole analytical approach, these things. So again, I work for businesses, I work for business people. I think they're all great. I don't wanna hurt my. Business structure, but come on, Eddie .

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how to pronounce “Madam Macabre”. Is she a villain or just a Giant-Man competitor? Can we trust Giant-Man on this? How fast will growing/shrinking technology proliferate? And why is everyone with a superpower a hero or a villain? Why not just use your abilities to save some money or become an entrepreneur?

Behind the issue:

This is the first and only appearance (so far) of Madam Macabre. Part two of this issue is a Hulk feature, which is not covered in the podcast. The only public fact of the Hulk feature is that Bruce Banner is in the Soviet Union, and it is unclear if he is defecting or kidnapped again.

In this issue:

Giant-Man and the Wasp story

Madam Macabre is able to use technology to shrink inanimate objects. She is envious of Giant-Man’s ability to shrink himself. And so she sets up a meeting with Giant-Man. She explains at the meeting that she was mentored and tutored by the supervillain the Mandarin. She then makes the pitch for Giant-Man to quit the Avengers and to partner with her in some vague plan to take over the world. Being the hero that he is, Giant-Man rejects the offer. She returns to her lair and schemes to defeat the Giant-Man. The step in this scheme is to kidnap the Wasp, which lures Giant-Man to her lair. He is trapped in a shrinking room, but the Wasp breaks free and rescues him. The Wasp then successfully defeats Madam Macabre and frees Giant-Man.

Hulk story

The Hulk is trapped in the Soviet Union. A kindhearted Soviet scientist helps him out, but he is killed. This causes the Hulk to become very angry. He goes on a rampage at the Soviet base, where he is stuck for a while, and eventually escapes.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to wonder about all of the superheroes and supervillains with similar powers.

This episode takes place:

After Madam Macabre has been soundly defeated.

Full transcript:

Edward: Mike first there was giant man, then there was the wasp, and now is there. There is mad. Mc, oh my gosh. I can't even say the word. You can't say it, eh, I can't say it. Madam Mc mc macur mebrak. Madam. I can't, I can read the word Mike. I just can't say it out loud.

Micheal: I think you need to start watching some old films. Macra describes like some old classic film noir, if I'm thinking of it correctly, but certainly it's a word. Macca

Edward: Mac. But here's The Thing. You should do so. So say the. First person who can shrink ant man, first person that can grow. Giant man. Very descriptive names. The wasp also like descriptive as in small animal. You'd think that Spider-Man could also shrink, but no, he doesn't. But this new person who has the ability to grow and shrink things, Madam Mak, uh, has nothing to do with, with changing size. Like what type of name?

Micheal: Well, it's not descriptive, but, I would award points for originality. I think the intention behind calling yourself Madam Mac is that you're suggesting some malhi days. You know, you're suggesting some mallin, some malicious intent. Right. And, certainly some, darkness to her. And she was according to giant man, she was, Villain who could shrink. Just like him, right?

Edward: And according to giant man, she was like stealing something that, like a art gallery or something. She was breaking in and stealing stuff and they caught her. To be fair though, we only have giant man's word on that. We have No, I don't, I dunno if there's any evidence that she was actually doing that other than giant man say so.

Micheal: Other than name, other than the word of an unknown vigilant, master vigilante who happens to have captured someone with the exact same power set as him. It seems, if I was being cynical, I would say that I would question whether a giant man is trying to take out the competition. But we know he is, he's been a hero. It's just that, that he's also human, I think, and so maybe he just felt threatened by having somebody with the same power. Being out in society?

Edward: I would think so. You can look at the timeline of it, right? So the timeline was Madam Mebrak. I'll look at that. I can say it now. Thank, thank, thank you for this education. Madam Macabre, she becomes semi-famous. So she's in the papers. Mm-hmm. , she has this special ability, she's not committing crimes. She's just advertising her ability to say, Hey, I figured out this technology. I too have the ability to grow and shrink. And then shortly afterwards, giant Man comes out and. . Yeah, but she needs to go to jail cuz she's a criminal. So the timing is a little bit suspicious in terms of him shutting her.

Micheal: Yeah, it is. And the adventures have all had, they've recently had some issues that we've observed when they appear to be acting in their own interests after a few years of acting heroically. So we just don't know what to make of it. And I would assume people will find out more at the criminal trial, but much like any trial you need to have, you need. Evidence for witnesses who could be identified. And so Thank you. I would imagine she go, she might go, she might go free, you know, like, cuz it's just the word of a vigilante. So an Avenger's,

Edward: an official, he's an official vigilante though. He's working for somebody. We're not exactly sure who, but he's working for somebody. We think he's like at least semi-official. I think what, to me, what's interesting about this is two things. One is that, sooner or later this technology is going to get out, right? We know, we've seen from other evidence that giant man's powers don't come from the fact that he was experimented on or some sort of magic radiation, it's some sort of pills that he was taking, and so mm-hmm. , it's a technology that he has that's able to go and do this. And we know from the past that once someone has the technology, it gets spread, right? Like the Americans were the only ones with the nuclear bomb in 1945. And like by 1950 there was at least four or five countries with the nuclear bombs. And so, it feels like this technology is gonna get out there. Once we know it exists, someone's gonna be able to d.

Micheal: But I don't think there's any evidence that, Madam MCC Abra had got the technology. You know what I mean? It's more. I wonder if it's just it's more the idea that gets out there.

Edward: That's right. That's right.

Micheal: Where she learns that somebody can shrink through some kind of process and so she creates it or duplicates it in her own way because there's historical precedent for that as well. At least when it comes to people, meeting challenges and surpassing.

Edward: Yeah, I'm not claiming that she stole his abilities. And as far as I know, giant man isn't even claiming that she stole his abilities. And so, no, he has reason to claim that she is and he's not. So it suggests that no, she came up with it independently. But we've seen that happen again and again in different technological situations like both in scientific theory and in technology, right? So, like Isaac Newton is credited with inventing the theory of gravity and calculus, but if he hadn't, there was, there were a number of other people that were waiting in the wings who would be publishing the same things soon afterwards. It's very rare that a scientist is doing it, and if they weren't around that nobody would've ever come up. .

Micheal: And it suggested inevitability to the scientific process, but also even just with respect to humanity and people. Remember that people thought the four minute not be run and then as soon as Roger's Banister, broke that record, ran the four minute mile, what was it a month and a half later, someone beat that record and then people thereafter continued beating that record, just suggests that as soon as people could see that it was possible, it became possible for.

Edward: That's right. It was Landy or something. It was 46 days after Banister broke the four minute mile. It was, John Landy came out and beat it. Mm-hmm. and, and, and, and, and banister just barely beat it. Like he was point happened to be half a second faster than the four minute mile. And then Landy came in and like blew past him, was Two seconds faster, like a few days later. And since then a number of people have break broken the four minute mile. I think it's interesting before Banister did it, doctors were saying that anybody who's going to be able to break, anyone who attempts to break the four minute mile will die. I think that was the quote. They will die. It is so hard on the human body. If you ever run that fast, you will die. And now we've no, absolutely not true. And other people are training for it, and they know that it's possible. They know that it's something that you can achieve. And now we know shrinking the human body down to the size of an ad is something that we can achieve.

Micheal: That's it. And I think that's the take home message really. And the question lends itself to whether other superpowers are gonna be, duplicated and we're gonna start seeing more. But you gotta wonder sometimes, have we. I don't think we have, but have we hit maximum powers? You know, we have people that can grow large, they can grow small, they can get strong, they can uh, they

Edward: can fly. We talked about Thor last week. He'd fly really fast.

Micheal: They can fly really fast. And I are we gonna see a lot of different powers, you know what I mean? Or is this just that we've hit the max powers and our, we're gonna see versions of it come out, with more shrinking and whatever.

Edward: Could be, could be, I dunno. But it feels like we're still seeing a significant amount of variety happening, right? It wasn't that long ago that Sandman popped up and he's, the ability to turn into sand like that seems pretty unique and different from everybody else. Spider-Man's power different than other people. I guess some things, like he being really strong or flying seems to be common, but we're also getting we're still seeing lots of variety. Just because we have somebody else shrinking doesn't mean that this is it. It's not the end of, it's not the end of the beginning, Mike. This is just not even the beginning of the end.

Micheal: We're continuing on. Here's the other question that I had though I have to admit, it's been bothering me. So, you know, when you, when you

Edward: tell me your therapist today,

Micheal: my therapy session, so Dr. Ed, here's what's been on my mind, and it might just be because it's unreported, but it seems that when people developed a technology or developed powers, they go one of two ways in quite a binary sense. They either become superpowered Adventurers or they become criminals, and you know what, I'm just like, well, wait a minute, isn't there like a third path where let's say for instance, I was inspired to develop technology, to learn how to grow taller or shrink Maybe I wouldn't decide to quit my job as a lawyer and become an adventurer, or certainly become a criminal. I just decide well, I gotta reach that can, on the top shelf in my kitchen, I'm just gonna grow. Instead of grabbing, going in the step ladder or I, I move in, I decide like, you know what? I wanna maybe downsize a little bit. Literally, I get a smaller apartment in New York and I can fiddle up more furniture, or I can get around more easily in my own apartment. It just fiddle. I don't know.

Edward: It's like that you have like a very spacious apartment. All of a sudden. Your television is enormous. You have the biggest screen television in the whole world.

Micheal: You know, or maybe I wanna save on food and maybe, I dunno if this is how it works, but I shrink cuz I, I could just order small portions everywhere, and just like nibble away for like a week on something. You know, this loaf of bread, one loaf of bread fills me up. Maybe eating a lot of bread isn't a good idea, but you know what I mean? , and so, but I just gotta wonder. And there's not just, there's other technologies. Like if I had the power to turn Invisible again, would I join a super team or break into a bank or would I more likely turn Invisible so I can, when I'm walking home in the evening, I don't want to pop,

Edward: I don't wanna hear who you're spying on. Mike, I don't want to hear, I don't want, this is not time replace . Hey, I think, I think you're coming onto something right? Of like, Hey, you have these, if you had these abilities, if this technology was out there, you don't have to go and fight criminals and you don't have the best way to help society is not necessarily to go and help criminals. Maybe if you had this power to grow and shrink instead of stealing art, you could just start a moving. Imagine how efficient your moving company would be. They could just, you go to someone's house, you're like, no problem. We'll just shrink your whole house down. Bang, we'll throw it into an envelope. We'll ship it to the new place and then we'll just grow it again. And we can be the most efficient, fastest, we can charge a much lower rate and make much higher margins. And like all of a sudden we have a nice little business going.

Micheal: Yeah, exactly. Or what if I could be like a Human Torch, I could just, save money on my heating bill every month.

Edward: so like, here's The, Thing, . Every time you get a power, you're looking for a way to, to save some sense. I think the better look for growth opportunities. Look for ways to increase your revenue. Don't just cut your cost. You can't shrink yourself into success, Mike.

Micheal: You know what? That's a good point. And this is why we're buddies. So this is, I'll bring the pessimism. You bring the optimism .

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how the Wasp is being treated while she is in critical condition and digress into trying to understand just how fast Thor can fly. He can cross the Atlantic in three minutes. That is faster than any plane, train, or automobile! Is it faster than a rocket? Does he light the air on fire? What would it be like to be saved by Thor at that speed? Do we need to worry about mid-air collisions? Should we apply speed limits to superheroes?

Full episode summary:

The Trouble with Thor's Speed - Controlling Velocity for Protection.

1. The Wasp's Critical Condition: An Update

2. Uncovering the Mystery Behind Thor's Travels

3. Controlling Thor's Speed: A Discussion

4. Speed Limits: The Need for Superhuman Regulation

The Wasp in Critical Condition

Reports of the Wasp's condition have been grim, but optimistic. She is currently stable but in critical care. With the Avengers involved, it is unclear what sort of medical help she is receiving and what types of injuries she sustains. It could be something as common as a car accident or sports injury, or something more specific to what the Avengers do.

The Mystery of Thor's Travel

Interestingly, Thor has been reported to have been flying around the world, potentially looking for a specific doctor to help the Wasp. Reports also indicated that he flew across the Atlantic in three minutes, much faster than any plane could go. Whether he is flying suborbital, as some science fiction theories suggest, or following flight paths at a certain altitude to avoid mid-air collisions, it is remarkable to consider the speeds at which Thor is traveling. One aspect of Thor's power that often goes overlooked is his impressive speed. During a podcast discussion, the hosts discussed just how fast Thor can fly. They estimated that Thor can fly at about 80 times the speed of sound - Mach 80 - which is much faster than any mechanical aircraft on Earth, and even faster than a rocket to the moon.

Controlling Thor's Speed:

The hosts then discussed how Thor's speed might be useful in saving people. They concluded that Thor would need to understand how to control the speed. If he could fly to someone quickly but then decelerate to a stop, he could rescue them before they were injured. They also discussed the amount of power behind his speed, and the air displacement it could cause if Thor flew by someone on the street. All in all, Thor's speed is an extremely impressive part of his power set and is a major factor in why he is considered one of the most powerful superheroes., The speaker highlights the potential problem of an individual traveling at a speed far beyond what humans would normally experience. They discuss the potential damage that could be caused in the wake of someone flying at such a high speed.

The speaker questions whether the superhero, Thor, should partake in control testing far away from other people, to see the damage that could be caused by traveling at such a high speed. They point out that although the idea of traveling from one place to another quickly may sound great, it could lead to destruction in his path. The speaker emphasizes the need for speed limits for a reason, to ensure that people are not traveling too fast, resulting in destruction.

Behind the issue:

This issue deals with the cliffhanger we were left with in issue #13, with the Wasp in critical condition. The story introduces a new alien race, the Kallusians, but they are not revealed to the human race, and they are never mentioned again in the Marvel Universe.

In this issue:

The Wasp is in critical condition, and with not a moment to spare, Thor flies to Norway to basically kidnap a medical specialist, Dr. Svenson, to hopefully save the Wasp’s life. It turns out that Dr. Svenson is an alien in disguise, and when his mask is removed he dies. And so the Avengers are now on the hunt to find the real Dr. Svenson. They do that by tracking down the aliens in the North Pole; they have a futuristic city beneath the Earth’s crust! The aliens subdue the Avengers and, being the bad guys, they monologue about themselves and their plans. They’re the Kallusians, and they escaped an interplanetary war and hid out on Earth. They have trouble breathing on Earth, and when all looked hopeless, Dr. Svenson stumbled their way, and they kidnapped him, convincing him to help them figure out how to breathe on Earth. Dr. Svenson figured out how to help them, but the Kallusians have refused to release him. The Avengers break free, battle the Kallusians, and then find out that Dr. Svenson does not want to leave, as he has agreed to stay and help them with their breathing issues for as long as they need to hide out from their interplanetary rivals. And after that exposition is provided, the Kallusians’ alien enemies locate them on Earth! What are the odds? Anyway, Thor basically scares them to leave the planet and fight their enemies in space, freeing up Dr. Svenson, whom they take to New York City to operate on the Wasp and save her life (he does). The Watcher also shows up at the end of the episode to explain how lucky it was for humanity that the two warring alien races did not duke it out on Earth.

Assumed before the next episode:

The Avengers are likely wondering what to do with the now-abandoned alien city beneath the North Pole.

This episode takes place:

After the Wasp’s life has been saved!

Full transcript:

Edward: the wasp, is still in critical condition? Mike? They think she might recover, but we don't know her her state right now.

Michael: No, but I suppose good news to find out that she hasn't passed away. She hasn't died in the line of battle. And our thoughts are obviously with her and the rest of the team

Edward: I think they're saying stable but critical. So she's in critical care. Mm-hmm. , but not getting worse. Stable. They're trying to find some sort of doctor to help her, and they're communicating with us. And so I think we're cautiously optimistic, right.

Michael: But you gotta wonder, you gotta wonder what is it? We don't know exactly. We know that she was injured injuring battle. But is it something that is a run-of-the-mill medical issue that could happen to any of us if you're in a car accident or you're in a sports event or even in a regular military engagement?

Or is there so. Specific to what the Avengers do, and if it is the latter I'd be curious because we've been following the superhero SUPERPOWERED community for so long, is there something unique that's being done for her? .

Edward: We don't know. And it's nice of them to share at all. I think at this point, you don't want to give away too much of the secret sauce that makes them superheroes and what could possibly hurt them? What are things that can hurt the wasp? Probably the same things that can hurt you and I only, mm-hmm. , she's just far more athletic and capable and able to change.

Michael: Key among them is that she changed the size. I mean, that seems to be, to be an inherently risky thing to do . So I'd be curious about what the injury is, and also it may affect the ability to treat her. I don't wanna speculate too, too much out of respect for the wasp, but I'd imagine that. There could be something complicated about her physiology now.

Edward: We don't even know what size she is now. Is she being treated Yeah. As, a wasp or is she being treated as an adult human, or is she like a giant man? She's extra big. We don't know what size she is. And maybe that's part of the complication. Maybe she is mm-hmm. In a very small form and maybe a very special doctor who's able to treat her with special in.

Michael: Well, and don't say this analogy too, too far, but it could be a regular surgeon who might be involved, or doctor, it could be a pediatric surgeon if she happened to be, you know, size, smaller size, quite frankly, it could be a veterinarian, you know what I mean? To deal with the idea of no, seriously, she, oh, she

Edward: has wings, , maybe her wings are anything.

Michael: She, she has wings, but also she might be super small, like a small animal. Or she could be the size of a horse, you know? And both those were the fields of veterinarians. So I don't wanna, I'm not trying to suggest in any way anything more than she is a mammal who might be a different size and there are specialists that deal with that. And, on we go, good luck to the wasp .

Edward: Do you think this is why, Thor is flying around the world? Is he looking for a specific doctor to help her?

Michael: That's what I started thinking about, so we heard the news, that Thor was being tracked, flying across the ocean and by the reporting, and this is interesting, I hadn't heard this before. Thor traveled across the Atlantic Ocean within minutes, within minutes and , you know, and, and it's like, I would've thought he could have, if you believe he's is an as guardian, he's a, a Norse God from Asgard. that he would travel in some form of interdimensional, something rather, that we don't know about. But no, he didn't, and he didn't do that to go to Europe and said he just flew across the yo.

Edward: We don't, we don't even know what, I think at one point people thought he has his hammer and he is just so strong that he swings his hammer around, throws the hammer and the hammer like, I dunno, the hammer's so powerful. It pulls him in a direction or people thought that he's the, got a thunder. He can control the weather and maybe he's using the winds to pull him around. But neither of those explanations make sense when you can cross the Atlantic in three minutes.

Michael: No, and, the first thought I had is okay, number one, so air travel is carefully regulated. There's flight paths between say New York and London and miami and Dublin. And so there's gonna be paths, and the idea is it's very carefully regulated to make sure that you don't run into people. Uh, so planes don't run into each other as they're flying at the required altitude so is Thor flying? I would imagine Thor to be, if he wants to get there quickly, would probably fly to certain altitude, much like the planes to cut through the air as well as you can. Well,

Edward: I'm sure again, Thor does not wanna be part of a mid-air collision. Imagine the news when Thor runs into an airplane and Families are destroyed and died because he was blasting through them with his hammer. And it seems like that's a very easy thing to avoid by just flying at a different height than airplanes fly at. I'm not sure what flight, I'm sure there's like certain flight paths and certain flight altitudes and he would just fly either like lower or presumably higher.

Michael: Well, but think about this with my point is that I suspect that, and we should talk to an aeronautical engineer we probably could confirm this. There are heights you likely. for maximum, efficiency,

Edward: well that depends on how you fly, right? So airplanes fly because they have engines that are shooting off exhaust that are propelling them forward, and then they have wings that are providing lift. So as they propel forward, the wings provide lift and they get lifted up into the air. And then they can control that up and down. There's no exhaust coming from. , at least no visible exhaust. Unless he's no I don't wanna be vulgar here on the radio, but I don't think there's like exhaust coming from his ass, like pushing out, pushing him through the space

Michael: Too many beans ,

Edward: too many beans. . If, if he's, if he's ever gets into shilling for products, he should definitely promote beans. Like Oh, get your, get your Aus Garan beans from Thor.

Michael: It's a magical fruit. .

Edward: The, the, the more you eat, the more you fly.

Michael: fly. no, but, I'm getting a little bit away from what I really wanna talk about, I would think that there is, if you're Thor and you wanna get across the ocean quickly because your teammate. Needs you to do something, which is what Thor was doing, that you would probably do your best to fly the most efficient way across the ocean. But you're right, I don't think he'd irresponsible. So he is likely isn't flying that high.

Edward: Or, I think he's flying probably higher. Like higher. Here's The Thing too. If, if he's. Given that he's like the mighty Thor, he probably is able to survive pretty high in the atmosphere. I dunno, can he survive in space? It wouldn't surprise me. He feels like he's like, he feels like he's the type of person who would survive in space, didn't he? He sent the absorbing man. Yeah. Right into space. Maybe Thor can survive in space and so if he can survive, he can go high enough. It depends if he's able to, if he's able to propulsion himself high enough, he doesn't need air to prop, repulse himself off of which he may not, then going higher is actually better for him cause it's, it's less wind, there's less wind resistance, less air resistance.

Michael: Could he also, like, could he also break through the atmosphere and spike up and as the earth is, if he's going across to Europe, the earth is moving in his direction and he goes up and then down, that would be. Efficient way of getting, of getting across the earth quickly. Right.

Edward: That's true. So instead of flying in a straight line, he could just fly suborbital that. That's, and there's been lots of science fiction written about that. If you wanted to go mm-hmm. to from London to Sydney as fast as possible, and we had the technology to do it, we would fly a suborbital flight that would blast off. It'd be a parabola, we'd basically a parabola from one to the other. Yeah. And so maybe if that's how Thor travels parabolas.

Michael: I mean, in my head, I must say, I wasn't thinking of parabolas. I was thinking of Thor, kinda like just flying, just barely above the ocean. And hopefully not hitting a ship, but maybe he's the right height to not hit a ship either. But my thought was if he flies across, and this is what I really wanted to talk about, even though I'm kind of fascinated by the idea he'd fly into Pablo, which so cool. ,

Edward: we, we, you, we should, we should have, we should think, talk more about paras. It feels like parabolas are under talked about topic on radio University.

Michael: Our listeners love it. They love those parabolas, but if you are getting across the ocean within minutes, let's say it's about three minutes, and it's about over 4,000 kilometers. Well, you tell me are you applying so fast that you're we're gonna light the, like the air on fire. You know what I mean? That, that seems un unfathomably fast.

Edward: It is remarkably fast. I, so yeah. Let's, let's, let's run through the math and so, okay. I know we are in America and we should be using, local imperial measurements, but when you start talking about the speed that Thor is flying at, we're gonna use that archaic metric system that the French use and cause the math is a lot easier. And so the ocean is like roughly, I think from North America through to Europe. We're talking at roughly 4,800 kilometers, 4,800 kilometers, 3000 and something miles, right? For the rest of us. And then, He did that in three minutes. So he's doing that at what, 1,200 kilometers per minute? That's, uh, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's doing three times that. So he's doing, yeah, in a minute he's doing 15,000 kilometers or 14,000 kilometers or something like that. Per, per, no, no, no, no. That was right the first time. No, no. He's doing a little over a thousand kilometers in a minute, and then in three minutes he gets all the way to the 5,000 kilometers. But that turns out that flying a thousand kilometers a minute is really, really, really, really fast. And like the speed of sound is about a third of a kilometer per second. . We do some math, dividing, whatever. I think it works out too, that he was flying at roughly 80 times the speed of sound. So, so mock 80. Mock 80. For those who are familiar with the mock terms

Michael: And how fast, I mean, what's our fastest plane like, how fast did the rocket to the moon?

Edward: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know I should know that to break the orbit, right? But like I know that planes, like passenger planes don't fly that fast. They fly no, significantly slower than the speed of sound. The really, really fast, like breaking the sound barrier, which we did before we went to the moon. Breaking the sound barrier was a big deal. And that by def the sound barriers was what, what we call mock one and I know we have planes that go faster than the speed of sound now, but not a lot. Fast mock two, mock three, something like that. Thor was going mock. It's fast.

Michael: I don't think that that's fast. It's fast. And I don't think that when I, when we've seen the footage on, on our, the rockets to the moon. I don't, they don't, I don't think they were going that fast. At least visually didn't seem that they're . You get across the ocean. How high, how high is it to get to get, to break the atmosphere? Right. How, how high is it? It's not, how high is the atmosphere? Four. Yeah, it's not tough. 4,000 kilometers and it takes, it took a few minutes certainly to get above, to break the atmosphere. So they're not going as fast as Thor a Thor can get across the ocean.

Edward: No, no. So, so the atmosphere, so I think the atmosphere is bigger than that man. I think the atmosphere is roughly 10,000 kilometers up.

Michael: No,

Edward: yeah, yeah. Like 6,000 miles or. And depends, depends where, depends where you, it turns out there's not like a line, there's not like a fence where like now you're, now you're in space and it slowly becomes less atmospheric all along. But when you start going the, the high atmosphere, it's like roughly, roughly 10,000 kilometers, 6,000 miles.

Michael: Okay. Well, could you get up there in, I guess within 10 minutes? Does it, does the rocket take, did the rocket take 10 minutes to get above there? Which would be kind of similar to Thor flying across the ocean?

Edward: Yeah, so he is going, I think faster than rockets. I think Rockets are going, yeah, I think so. Like somewhere under 10 kilometers. Like they, when they get going to speed, they're going about 10 kilometers a second. And what do we say Thor is doing? Thor's doing. 80 times the speed of sound. And the speed of sound is a third of a kilometer per second. So what's that 80 divided by three? He's doing 20 times, 25 times, times the times. 25 kilometers per second, something like that. And our rockets when they're like, when they're really, when they get this really going up there when they're really picking up speed. They're doing about 10 kilometers a second. And so he's roughly two and a half times faster than a rocket . And so that's, but, but as fast, it's fast. It's fast. But as fast as, rockets aren't setting air on fire. I don't think Thor is setting, he's not setting air on fire fast.

Michael: No, no. But he's still going fast enough, like faster than any any mechanical device on earth,

Edward: he's definitely the fastest human in any form of transportation that's ever happened.

Michael: And it's funny because I guess we've always sort of, when we talk about Thor or any of these heroes, we focus on a few things, like for Thor, we've always focused on, he's a p he's very strong he's a God. But I've never thought much about him flying, which is funny because if you started flying, I would think that's incredible Ed. But it's, um,

Edward: and, and if I started flying at 80 times a speed of sound, you'd be like that is, that is extra incredible. That is like more incredible.

Michael: Yeah. That's worthy of a discussion. But, um,

Edward: that could be don't, but your point is that could be a main power. If someone's power was flying 80 times the speed of sound, we would be. Wow. You are definitely one of the best superheroes on the planet. And yeah, the fact that that was Thor's, fourth or fifth power.

Michael: Yeah. Like Thor. Let's just break it down. So if Thor, if you're walking across the street and you're carrying a coffee and you're not paying attention and a truck comes barreling at you, Thor could easily grab. You know, maybe that's not the most heroic thing, but move you from the, the crosswalk so you don't get struck. But there's probably something, there must be a better example, but I wouldn't even know who saved, you know what I mean? That fast,

Edward: you know, like if he moved that fast on a human, Thor is very solid. He's a very strong human being who bullets bounce off him and that most bolts don't bounce off cars. And so he is big, he is stronger than a car, more solid than a more dense than a car. And if a car was. 80 times the speed of sound and ran into you. You would not be saved. Saving is not The. Thing. That would happen. .

Michael: That's right. Well, is there a way to like, you know, when you catch a ball, someone throws you at a ball at you, right? You kind of grab it and you control the momentum of it. We think we talked about this before. Sure. So is there a way that. How about this? Let's slow it down. ,

Edward: I think, I think if you were thrown at Thor, if someone like threw you at Thor and Thor, caught you, but then went with the motion, the way you went with a ball. Yeah. Then yeah, I think that he could stop you from, from being squished, but if you were flying at him and he said, you know what? I need to get to you quickly. I'm gonna fly towards you at 80 times a speed of sound. Like you're not gonna have a body left after.

Michael: So if Thor is going at 80 times, the speed sound up to you thinking, oh, that person's in a crosswalk he's gonna get struck by that truck that's outta control. And he went up and just touched you. , , his finger would just go right, like right through your body as he just continued on. There must be a way that he could do it.

Edward: Would, would you rather hit by a truck going at. 20 miles, 50 miles an hour. Or Thor going at like 1000 miles an hour.

Michael: Oh, Thor. Thor. It'd be so much cooler to get blown up that way,

Edward: but I guess if you're gonna die, go out in style .

Michael: Well, could you do this? How about this? I'm still now thinking about it. What if Thor went very quickly and went. Under the ground and cut the ground out from underneath you and lifted you through or would like, there'd be so much wind resistance you'd be ripped apart by Well,

Edward: if you move through the air Yeah. You're telling me what if the ground underneath me started flying upwards? Mm-hmm. Immediately at 80 times the speed of sound. Yeah, that would, that's not like, let's be human. When we, when, when, when we first started trying to break the speed of like, the sound barrier, like people died trying to make their break the sound barrier, and that's mock one. We're talking about mock 80. It's not, there's, there's no scenario, no world where, that is a helpful place for a human to be.

Michael: Okay, let me loop back then, ed. I don't know if it's the most useful power then for saving people. Perhaps, but it's useful to get to where you need to go. As long as he's maneuverable and he can stop and maneuver and not run into things, then that part's useful but I was thinking like, what if he'd be a very useful superhero if he could just go really fast and get you outta danger, but if he just blow you up every time he touched you, ?

Edward: No. I think the key is using his speed to get to you and he has to. He just, we need to understand how fast Thor can decelerate. That that's the key. If he can, that's critical fly, fly to you very quickly, but stop on a dime and pick you up gently. Fly away slightly faster than the truck is coming towards you.

Michael: Here's another question then just think about how fast story. So, he's coming at you. Is air being pushed in your direction? Or is it not? Or is it, or is he cutting through it?

Edward: I think generally he's cutting through air. He's moving so fast that I don't think, I think he's moving faster than any air particles getting pushed. I think if he blew pa, if you were like standing on the side of the road and he blew past you, I don't think you would experience anything until he passed you and then all the air he displaced would hit you and it's like a train. When a train comes by, you can feel the train coming after the fact, but it's not coming before the fact.

Michael: Okay, so let's say again, using my example of I'm in the street. Flying on the street, what would happen if he's flying through and, then at that speed, or he is even slowing down, would not like, there would be a train, a trail of destruction right behind him. Things, you know what I mean?

Edward: I, could see that I could see like a bunch of it. It, yeah I think what we're dealing at with is an order of magnitude of speed that I think us normal humans can't really comprehend. And, we just don't, we don't experience speed like this at any normal time in our lives.

Michael: So I, I'd like to, I guess, Thor, I'd like you to maybe do some control testing far away from other people to see, because I mean, just in case you're attempted to like race to the scene of a crime or an incident or some event that you wanted to prevent at first. Seems like a great idea. But in second thought, it sounds like it might be complete, like it'd be fine flying across the ocean it doesn't run into anything. But it wouldn't be that fine if he's flying across North America, if he's getting too low to the ground, causing damage in his, in, in his wake, right.

Edward: Yeah. Hey, hey, we have speed limits for a reason. Thor, we have speed limits for a reason.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

…and we are back. For those waiting patiently, sorry for the hiatus. Mike and Ed both had great holidays, and are now back on track with weekly episodes. Both this one and next week’s were a lot of fun. Enjoy!

In this episode:

The rumors of Tony Stark’s death were greatly exaggerated. After three months of absence, the titan of industry has returned, and Mike and Ed have opinions! Iron Man was apparently a terrible replacement boss while Stark was away. What makes anyone think a superhero would make a super boss? New joke: How are superheroes like doctors and lawyers? Tune in to find out!

Behind the issue :

This ends the four issue storyline of Tony Stark being stuck inside the Iron Man armour, and the challenges that created for his personal and professional life. The second half of the issue is a re-telling of the origin of Captain America. Recall back in the 1960s, getting access to character origins was a lot more difficult than today, so many readers would not have known Captain America’s origin, and regular reminders were important to the mythology.

In this issue:

Iron Man wanders into the office and acts like a real jerk to Pepper and Happy. They think that Iron Man let Tony Stark get killed, and as such, they are not thrilled to see him anyway. Iron Man/Tony gets to work behind closed doors at fixing his chest plate so that he can live without wearing the whole Iron Man suit, and figures it all out. Now out of his Iron Man costume, Tony struts out of his office like nothing happened, causing serious confusion to Pepper and Happy, and the world at large. He explains that he was caught up in a secret love affair and is engaged to be married. People seem relieved that Iron Man will no longer be at the helm of the company. Meanwhile, the Phantom is attacking Stark facilities, leading to unsafe conditions for workers that causes union bosses, and the government holding the Stark military contracts, to put pressure on Tony Stark to catch the Saboteur. Iron Man ends up catching the Phantom, who turns out to be a jaded Stark employee.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how stable Tony Stark is, after disappearing for months on a love affair with an unnamed woman.

This episode takes place:

After Tony Stark has “returned from the dead”.

Full transcript:

Edward: Out with the new and in with the old Mike, the old guard is back.

Michael: Well, I'm sure that the market responded favorably to find out that Tony Stark is indeed among the living .

Edward: Yeah. It turns out the laser from space that destroyed his residence and we all thought he died. He wasn't, he was, he just wasn't there. He was off having a gallivanting with some woman that he's now engaged to.

Michael: Yeah. And so I, think. Leaving aside our interest in the SUPERPOWERED community and the Avengers, I think that there's a lot of questions that arise just for the head of one of the most important companies in the world. Just, disappearing for months, for a few

Edward: weeks, months. At a time. For months now? No, it was it months. How long was it? Months. It was months. It was, it like when the,, I'm trying to think of the exact date when the laser hit, but it was back in January or something. We're in April now. Like that's, that's a long time to be like, oh yeah. The, whole world is freaking out. The, stock is plummeting. Iron Man is running your company and, just. Did you not just read, check the news? Is he not just looking at the morning news and be like, you know what, I should probably correct the record.

Michael: Well, it's not just the idea that he owes an obligation to his company, his employees, his shareholders. How about his personal life? I mean, ed, if you were reported dead and just disappeared for months at a time, I'd be worried and I'd be quite upset with you.

Edward: Thank you, Michael, for caring about me. .

Michael: Well, yeah, I'd be worried. And, just like with Tony Stark, there'd be, funeral announcements and it'd be articles written about it. I dunno if you get the same treatment. , I would notice and the have you come back from the dead would be, shocking that you, it'd be a shock and it'll also be disappointed that you'd treat your personal relationships like that.

Edward: Oh, can you imagine? And not only that, you probably, we've, you love replaced me on the show. There'll be some new, new host for, three where a helmets , where your helmet, because that new host does not want to reveal his identity.

Michael: No. Exactly. And then, and then just turns out, it turns out that you were alive all the time. This whole time you just decided to take a break from life, have a fantastic old time, just gallivanting a around, well,

Edward: not just Galvan, he dropped back into life, not just Galvan. He was so, he dropped out of life. He didn't drop out, he dropped out of his professional life, but he accelerated his personal life. The guy's engaged to get married. .

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's,

Edward: that takes focus, Mike. He couldn't be distracted by things like running his publicly traded company. He couldn't get distracted by maintaining his relationships, couldn't be distracted by informing the public of what's going on. He was focused on this woman like that. That a hundred percent focus.

Michael: So you're saying that maybe the key to Tony Stark's life and his success has not been that he's a multitasker, but he's a uni tasker. He's a uni tasker. So he can only focus ,

Edward: the ultimate uni tasker, .

Michael: Yeah. So it's just like, okay, you know what? I'm going to, uh, be the leader, a captain of the industry, and then I'm gonna take a four month break and devote myself to wooing this one woman. And then what happens now doesn't bode well for the engagement, I must say, not his return to taking the reigns of Star Corp.

Edward: Yeah. Like, well, yeah, I guess now, now he's gonna be focused a hundred percent on Stark Corp. And this woman's gonna get left in the dust. And, hey, my prediction. Prediction right now is that this wedding doesn't happen. He's so distracted now by running the company. He can't do two things at the same time.

Michael: Well, that leads to the next point that we have is that, so, we've discussed before how odd we've found it that a man, or we think it's a man in an Iron Man costume operating under a pseudonym, has been running one of the most powerful companies in the world.

Edward: Well, Mike, if, Iron Man was a woman, don't you think they would call it Iron Woman?

Michael: Um, they could, but who knows? We don't, we don't know what's under the mask though, ed. It could, it could very well be a, woman who's in a man's costume, but, but, um,

Edward: oh, that, that would be the ultimate trick, right? Like she calls herself Iron Man, but she's really a woman. And then now everyone, no one, no one suspects the woman under the mask.

Michael: exactly, but whoever it is. The reports have been coming out now since Stark has taken the reins that I don't think that Iron Man was the best boss, or at least the most well liked boss. And, and maybe it's not a shock for a few reasons, right? Like number one, you didn't know who it was, who are you talking to? Who's giving you the, these orders? It's a massive,

Edward: he's like, he's like, look, look, look me in the eye, or like into these little holes that you get. You, you, you, you assume there's eyes.

Michael: Yeah. Like, you just don't, it the unsettling to work for someone who you didn't and you didn't know their, real name or what they even look like, what they were like, I mean, you know,

Edward: or, or, or facial expressions. Like so much communication is facial exp Like, I tell my boss, like, oh, I wanna go and do this. And they don't say no, but you see it like in their eye. You're like, oh, maybe I, that was a, that was a, I shouldn't have told them that. I shouldn't have said that. It doesn't, you know what I mean? Like, you can, we can read these signals. You can't read any signals from an Iron.

Michael: No, it's unsettling. And I think it really is a counterproductive to developing a proper workplace and or a happy workplace.

Edward: Mike's rules for man, Mike's rules for management entail, uh, show your face, .

Michael: Show your face and tell them your real name. I mean, those are, to me, those are deal breakers and they should have done, he should have done that, but he didn't. And the stories that are coming out like show that just wasn't well liked. And it's, again, it. unsurprising because of the reasons she just said. But also because you know, we've speculated, you and I have speculated openly on this show, did Iron Man have something to do with Tony Stark's disappearance?

Edward: Well, turns out, no turns there. There was suspicions about that, but turns out Tony Stark did it all by himself. He was off like . This woman, this woman is to blame not to not Iron Man, unless this woman is Iron Man. Wouldn't that be a twist?

Michael: Whoa. Well then, yeah, then we got a whole other, other episode on this. But no, it's, I think the reason why people might be unhappy with Iron Man is because they thought he might have been involved in the disappearance of Tony Stark, and maybe they're annoyed now in retrospect that Iron Man must have known all along that Tony Stark, someone that the, company grieved and the workers grieved for months is alive. So maybe that's why, it's another reason why they wouldn't be that happy with, with Iron Man. Now.

Edward: Well, well, hey, let's count the reason. So, number one, they thought that he killed the old boss. That's a way, that's a reason not to like your boss. Number two, he's wearing an Iron mask. We don't know his name, a reason to dislike your boss, but here's number three, which is , how much management training do you think Iron Man? How much experience do you think he has managing people? His specialty The. Thing, he's really good at is, being a mighty hero who saves the earth from aliens. That does not necessarily mean you're gonna be good at managing one-on-ones. .

Michael: Yeah. It doesn't translate into, reviewing reports and giving feedback to people that are working for you and saying, you know what, maybe we should work a little, harder on this, on this marketing plan. Jerry .

Edward: Let, let's, let's, let's set our priorities and you know, what my priority is saving the planet. What? What's on your list? What are your OKRs this week? What are you planning to get done? I just don't see Iron Man being particularly good at that. I mean, maybe he is, but if he does, it's uncorrelated with his ability to save the planet from aliens.

Michael: Well, yeah and let's say this, I would suspect that Iron Man might be connected with the military, and I said that because he's acting as a superhero, and works with the Avengers who are connected with the American military. So I'd say that in the best case scenario, from a management perspective, iron. Man may very well be a military person. I don't know if military command structure translates very well to corporate structure. Right. Okay. It might be a little more severe.

Edward: Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's fair. Although there is, there's lots of successes of people coming out of the military and having very successful careers in corporate America. So I think that if he was trained by the military and if he has a lot of military training and being able to, the military, the military's different than the Avengers. Avengers is five people. The military, if you got to any degree of seniority, you're managing, overseeing hundreds of people. And if you have the skillset to do that, you probably have, it's very similar to the skillset of running a big corporation. Not the same, but there's overlap. There is no overlap, in firing a blaster and like shooting off in rocket.

Michael: Realistically, yeah. No matter where Iron Man came from his, yeah, his skillset was dealing with extraterrestrial, and interdimensional threats. It's funny because he was one of the most popular people in the world, one of the most popular heroes in the world. It saved,

Edward: We've done episodes on that, on how well he managed his PR for so, .

Michael: Yeah. But it turns out maybe being a superhero doesn't make you a super boss. It might make you a terrible boss. Oh man. The world's the world's greatest hero. The world's worst boss. .

Edward: So they've done studies of salespeople, and you take your salespeople and you take your best sales. The best salespeople tend to get promoted to being sales managers. And when they do that, it turns out that the best sales people aren't the best sales managers. In fact, if you look at the people who are promoted to sales manager, it tends to be. Of the people who are promoted, the worst performing sales people who are promoted tend to be the best sales managers. And so Iron, Man being one of the world's greatest. You know what? Given the fact that the most popular hero becomes a terrible boss, maybe we should look at the worst heroes out there, the least popular heroes, and give them the promotion.

Michael: Spider-Man is up and down. , you know,

Edward: Spider-Man, spider boss. Spider Boss.

Michael: Well, it's funny because I know that when it comes to I work in as a lawyer and this is no secret on lawyers and law firms, but, as lawyers, we're not trained in running a business. Number one, we're trained in the law, but if you're in private practice, you run a business. And number two, we're not trained in management necessarily. Of the very successful lawyers that I know, they're driven by their personality to some degree, and a lot of them operate as solo people. Even if they work in a firm and to go from that to managing a business is, it would happen later in life, in your career and I've seen it, not necessarily across the board, but it's challenging for the people to make that leap. And I've heard the same thing about doctors. Doctors, might be excellent doctors, but not great business people.

Edward: I think what we're saying is there's two types of people out there. There are people who are good at managing and there are doctors, lawyers, and superhero.

Michael: That's good.

Apologies for no episode last week. Here in 2022 we are also shutting down for the Christmas holidays. We should be back the first week of January.

Also: Welcome to all the new listeners. If last episode was your first with us, we would love to hear how you heard of us. Apparently we are now the #25 top Marvel podcast, but that was published on December 11th, and we picked up many new listeners on November 30th. Where did you all come from? If you subscribe at www.SuperSerious616.com you can reply to the email we send you and you can tell us. We would appreciate it if only to satisfy our curiosity! See you in the New Year!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the mind-bending news that a sabertooth tiger has been found in Antarctica. Does this mean that other previously assumed extinct animals are not actually extinct? What about dinosaurs? Questions abound!

Behind the issue:

This is the first appearance of Ka-Zar and the Savage Land, which will go on to be a major environment in X-Men comics and the Marvel Universe more generally. There are rumors that the Savage Land and Ka-Zar may make an appearance in the MCU during the Thunderbolts movie due out in a couple of years. This is where it all began.

In this issue:

The evening news broadcasts a video from Antarctica of a Tarzan-like figure with a sabertooth tiger fighting explorers to the frozen continent. The X-Men suspect that this wild man may be a mutant, and they decide to investigate. They head to Antarctica and find a secret passageway through the frozen environment to a tropical land filled with dinosaurs and other strange creatures. They also encounter warriors fighting with preindustrial weapons. The wild man Ka-Zar and his sabertooth tiger Zabu come to their aid and help turn the tide of the battle. The X-Men leave, having made a potentially valuable ally.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are still wondering whether the sabertooth tiger is real, and if so, whether other extinct animals may return from the dead.

This episode takes place:

After the amazing news that a sabertooth tiger has been cited has been somehow lost in the new cycle.

Full Transcript

Edward: Mike, when did Sabertooth Tigers go extinct?

Michael: I don't know exactly, but I thought they were prehistoric. Did they not go out at the time of the Willie Mammoth? Think so. 2000 years ago.

Edward: I feel like, my understanding is that they, ex, number one is they existed. They're not like a unicorn. Unicorns never did exist. I know some people think that unicorns went extinct, but they did not. There was never a unicorn as far as we know. But sabertooth tigers, which kinda. Kinda unicorns. Cause they have giant, huge, giant teeth that kind of stick out. They existed and I think they were North American. I think they existed in North America. Yeah. And then when people came across that the land bridge into Alaska and then came down through the continent, there were all these crazy animals there. And humans just basically killed them all. By the time the Europeans got there, there weren't many of these big animals left. There were still bison and there were cougars, but, things like the mammoths and the sea two tigers were all killed off.

Michael: Were they killed off or they just die? I don't know if there's historical record for it being killed off by humanity, but I thought,

Edward: I think the record is, they overlapped with humanity. So humanity was there at the same time as they were. And, humanity lasted and they didn't. So they died off at some point after humans were there. And it turns out humans liked to eat animals. So there's a possibility that humans. Them all.

Michael: I thought it'd be more temperature. I thought it'd be more temperature related.

Edward: It could again, maybe, maybe Was Willie Mammoth ? Well, there's, there's wooly mammoth in Europe I think as well, but they also went extinct. And we know that humans ate those things for sure. Mm-hmm. , I think there's a lion, but regardless Europe, there's a lion in Europe too, and that, that also went extinct and we know that humans kind of wiped that out. I think I was curious what's going a lot of these animals in, in North America, they basically, they didn't have a defense against humans. Like all the animals in Africa. They evolved along with humans and the ones, and so they had defenses against humans. But I think all those animals in North America, we were an invasive species and we showed up and the animals had never seen us before, so they didn't know what.

Michael: That's interesting. Well, anyways, you asked me, but going back to the beginning. Yeah. So Saber Tooth Tigers haven't been around for a long, long time.

Edward: Except now they are.

Michael: Except now they are. Yeah, I mean, like

Edward: they're back baby. They're back.

Michael: They're back. They're back. And they're better than ever. So the people, uh, they watch this

Edward: not just as a sports team logo, basketball. No.

Michael: Well, like, so what we're talking about,

Edward: I feel like there should be though, shouldn't there be, why isn't there a sports team with like the Philadelphia Sabertooth Tiger.

Michael: Well, I, support it, but now they could probably get one maybe, but, for people that aren't, that haven't, haven't watching the news lately, what it is, is that there's a recording, a video recording of a man who looks like Tarzan walking with a sabertooth tiger who's attacking people in Antarctica. And it's like, it's so,

Edward: can interrupt that

Michael: crazy.

Edward: He looks like Tarzan. What does that mean? That means he, that means what does Tarzan even look? You mean like the drawings, the things that were on the covers of his books like a hundred years ago.

Michael: Yeah. Like a bear chested, loin, loincloth, guy walking around Antarctica, which is odd with a se tiger.

Edward: When you're saying he looks like Tarzan, you're basically saying there was some dude without clothes on.

Michael: It's for our younger listeners. I didn't wanna get too graphic, but Yeah. Some, some dude is basically wearing Speedo, walking around Antarctica with a sabertooth tiger.

Edward: Mike's gonna go to the next swim meet and he's gonna be like, Tarzan Tarzan's everywhere.

Michael: Well, that's what comes to mind when there's a man dress in a loin cloth with a prehistoric animal. Yeah. It kind of makes sense. Or with a big cat, like a saber tooth tiger. But there's a saber tooth tiger.

Edward: Yeah. But, Tarzan was never a, didn't have prehistoric animals in those books, did he? He was just, it was a chimpanzee, elephants,

Michael: the lord the jungle. No, he's in charge of the jungle and this guy's in charge of, it looks like from the video that he's in charge of the sabertooth tiger. And so, no, that's why, that's my connection, . But anyways, the Tarzana, the tar side. What I'm really getting at is that it's nutty.

Edward: Don't get confused by the Tarzan reference. Tarzana is not evolved.

Michael: I'm moving on from it. Moving on from bit, but here it is. So a sabertooth tiger. And, 10 years ago we would be, it would've blown our. If there's a video of a saber tooth tiger, that would be the front page of the news. I don't think many people know about this. Number one, and number two, we can't. We, you and I were talking before our show. Neither of us can totally agree on what is the most likely reason. There's a sabertooth tiger right now.

Edward: Yeah. There's a couple of things going on. Number one is, there's a sabertooth tiger. They went extinct thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, and now there's one back. So that's weird. Number two is it didn't appear in North America where they were last seen. It appeared in Antarctica. , which is like a weird place for it to be. And then number three is of all the, the weird places for it to appear. How does it survive in Antarctica? Like nothing survives in Antarctica. There's penguins.

Michael: And, and then so you say, well, where would it have come from? Because presumably, if there's been a line of savory tooth tigers for thousands and thousands of years that we didn't know about, there would be some evidence of that. And, people that investigate these things and the study of prehistoric animals just got it wrong and missed it and missed the evidence of years and years and years of sabertooth tigers prowling around or, the evidence, their bones or whatever

Edward: Be fair fossils if sabertooth tigers were really prowling around Antarctica this whole time, we haven't spent much time in Antarctica. I just think the evidence that any animal could survive in Antarctica is so low. That's the reason why we haven't been exploring Antarctica, is it's not really a place where animals survive.

Michael: Well, so that leads, okay, so number one, sabertooth tigers can survive in Antarctica. That's number, that's the first question, but it doesn't make a lot of sense because there are mammals, they're furry mammals that would live in,

Edward: they're predators. They have to eat other animals. If this sabertooth tiger is surviving in Antarctica for any period of time, that means there are prey animals living in Antarctica for some period of time. And I don't think it's just penguins. Like I think we've studied penguins in Antarctica as far as we know they do not have lions preying on them.

Michael: No, no. And so, it's kind of odd, but that's the most logical thing is that just it, we just happen to have missed it. And that's the conclusion that we'd have to draw if this was 10 years ago. But we have to entertain other possibilities. Could it be that we know time travel exists? So maybe it's a time travel thing.

Edward: That sounds a really easy answer, right? Like if, Kang who came here and tried to take over our timeline, take over our world, what would stop him from just going back in time and picking up a caveman in a sabertooth tiger and bringing them into our time. That sounds very reasonable.

Michael: It's a possibility or maybe it's another dimension that overlaps with our, we know that there's other dimensions and overlaps with ours and just maybe that. There's a crossover point down there. Maybe,

Edward: maybe in that dimension, Antarctica is like hot and bombing because we also know that a long time ago in humanity, Antarctica was hot and bombing, it was a nice warm right place with lush forests and so on. Maybe there's another dimension where that never changed and we got a portal to that dimension and these guys hopped through.

Michael: Maybe it's an alien because we know that there have been alien attacks and they seem to be similar. The aliens seem to be relatively similar to how we look, so maybe there's versions of mammals on other planets and this is just an alien either left their sabertooth tiger here, or maybe the sabertooth tiger is an intelligent species from another planet and we just haven't found the spaceship .

Edward: And he brought along his prehistoric man as a pet .

Michael: That's right. That's what it is and then maybe the other one I was thinking maybe it's from Asgard or something. Maybe it's from where Thor comes from. Because just a magical beast just like Thor's a magical Oh, that's true. God, I don't know.

Edward: And then this magical beast might be tens of thousands of years old. It's an un aging magical tiger.

Michael: Yeah, but the point is that we don't know. And so,

Edward: oh, I have another, I have another possibility.

Michael: What's that

Edward: robot? You know what I mean? We've had robots be we're we thought they were aliens. Turns out they were robots or we thought it was Iron man. Turns out it was a robot. It feels like robot impersonators are a thing. Why not just make a robot cat?

Michael: How about, and that's a good idea. But how about this also, it came from underneath the earth.

Edward: Oh, we, Atlantis is we know there's, there is an Atlantis underneath the earth. That could be a, it's almost like another dimension at this point, but yeah, that makes sense. Totally.

Michael: Boy, this all leads though. Is that

Edward: Maybe this old Atlantis kidnapped primitive humans. Mm-hmm. and and, giant cats and mammoths and stuff. And then breeding them underground in zoos. And these ones just escaped from the zoo.

Michael: Well, the point is that these are all now equally logical. , right, because it's just because there are of the

Edward: broadest sense of the word .

Michael: Well, but there are, there, they, we know that there's these are things that are, have happened last few years and so it, it doesn't stretch the imagination to believe that this is that there are sabertooth Tigers through any of these various reasons. So this is why you and I have been doing what I consider to be the hard news Ed, where we've been talking about the real stories. And I do think, these things have to be studied so that people, we, we could turn to, a more scholarly academic source to say, oh no, we've looked into this and turns out the robots who promote it, and now that people can study it

Edward: like mad scientist, it's a mad scientist who found ancient DNA and recreated primitive man and and tigers.

Michael: Oh my, I love it. I love it.

Edward: It's, it's The Thing. It's The Thing for an academic to dive into.

Michael: Yeah. Well, you know, Ed, if you and I, if our legacies that we're encouraging scholarship, so be it.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Thor’s battle with Crusher Creel, “The Absorbing Man”. Thor has used his own power against him by turning Crusher into helium and banishing him into outer space for an indefinite period of time. Thor claims that there are special laws and enforcement for “powerful people”. Who gets to decide who is powerful, and what the consequences are? Have we put too much trust in our heroes?

Behind the issue:

This is the first appearance of Crusher Creel, the Absorbing Man. His powers as demonstrated in these issues allow him to gain the strength and abilities of whimever he is fighting. That power will later be retconned into just the ability to gain the strength and abilities of the materials he touches. Also, don’t worry about Crusher - he later escapes from his life as an amorphous cloud of helium floating through the solar system, returning the bedevil our heroes again and again.

In these issues:

Journey into Mystery #114:

The issue opens with Thor battling another super-science criminal. While in the midst of battle, Thor’s brother Loki cast a kind of spell to harm Thor, although Thor spoils his plan, not knowing that his own brother was trying to kill him. Enraged, Loki comes up with a new scheme. He searches the Earth and finds a brutal man named Crusher Creel, who has been imprisoned for his vicious crimes. Loki adds an enchanted potion to Creel’s drink, which gives him the amazing power of being able to assume the properties of anything he touches. He uses this amazing power to escape prison. Thor learns of the prison break and confronts Creel, who proves to be incredibly powerful, and potentially a match for Thor, all witnessed by a newspaper reporter. Thor is spirited away in the midst of battle to Asgard, as Loki has kidnapped the woman he loves, Jane Foster.

Journey into Mystery #115:

The issue opens with Thor battling Loki for the life of Jane Foster. Meanwhile back on Earth, Crusher Creel has broken into the house of a young couple, and is basically terrorizing them. Back on Asgard, Odin breaks up the fight between his two sons, and after some back-and-forth, Odin agrees that Thor can leave the battle to finish his fight on earth with Creel. Thor returns to Earth and engages the villain once more. Crusher Creel again proves to be a potential match for Thor, using his powers in creative and effective ways. Thor is finally able to defeat the villain by tricking him into absorbing the quality of helium gas, causing him to leave the planet in the ethereal form of an amorphous cloud of helium.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if superheroes have assumed too much power and authority after learning that Thor acted as judge, jury, and executioner of the villain Crusher Creel, the Absorbing Man.

This episode takes place:

After Thor has banished Crusher Creel to his own personal hell, floating in a ghostly form through space for an indeterminate period of time.

Full transcript:

Edward: Mike, I wanna start off today with a quote. Can I do that? We've never done this before.

Micheal: Proceed.

Edward: Okay, Thor recently battled a new villain. This new villain that's just popped up called The Absorbing Man. And after he defeated the villain, he was speaking to a reporter, and I'm just gonna read it verbatim what he said to the reporter.

He said that this absorbing man person, "Crusher Creel has become lighter than the air and is swiftly being drawn into the atmosphere as I planned. In this gaseous state, he can survive indefinitely. I shall allow him to drift through space until the unearthly power he possesses is about a useless forgotten memory. Only then will he return to earth and assume his rightful form." So that seems really terrible.

Micheal: That's a chilling quote because we know that Crusher Creel is the absorbing man, and he was a bad dude who's in prison, but suddenly he got these powers and Thor's solution to him is to let him. So I guess people should know, I don't really know this, but it's been big news. I thought that the absorbing man can turn into anything like which he touches or something like that. So Thor somehow tricks him to turning into helium and floating away. Isn't that hellish? ,

Edward: You think? So?

Micheal: He's turning to a ghost.

Edward: We know that putting somebody in jail is a punishment. Within jail if you wanna punish the person further, what you do is you put them in solitary confinement where they basically aren't allowed to interact with other inmates. You know what's worse than that is floating through space for eternity

Micheal: Yeah. Or however long a thunder God decides you should. Thor talks about returning to finish his prison sentence, but only after he's lost a sense of who he is. So it means it could be an eternity. You could be going for eons through space going mad and you're right when you reference solitary confinement in prison. That's inhumane, right? I have a very strong view on this. It's inhumane and because as humans you do need social interaction. Basically turned into a ghost and float away is cruel no matter who this person is.

Edward: And solitary confinement, I think you're still allowed to read books. I think you're still having some sort of interaction with the broader world. If you're a gas helium, you went to a Cassius Helium floating through space, you don't have any interaction at all. Even if you're in solitary confinement, you can look at the bugs in your room, or you can look at the shadows that are changing. This guy's just floating through the vastness of space as helium.

Micheal: Yeah. So he's been sentenced to an indeterminate punishment, right? Like an indeterminate number of years by a thunder God, who may forget about him, be honest. But even if he doesn't. Thor doesn't forget that he has basically got a prisoner floating through space in a gases form. It's still, it's chilling that a well regarded superhero would choose this type of punishment, and you gotta ask why.

Edward: And it feels like if Thor had killed him, just murdered this guy, we would be having a conversation. There'd be people, a lot of people up in arms that these superheroes would just take the law into their own hands and murder people who they feel free to do that to, but instead what he's done, is it worse than murder? You could argue it is worse than murder and there's no up roar at all. In fact, the reporter who reported on this non ironically called Thor, the bravest, most self-sacrificing crusader he has ever known.

Micheal: I don't think he fits that description by doing that. This is an ungodly punishment for this person. It's hellish. The human equivalent here on earth of imprisoning somebody so they couldn't move and just kept them alive. If that happened on here on earth, if people are doing that, and certainly if police forces were doing that, our governments were sanctioning that we'd rightly denounce that as being torture. So that's what's happened is that it's clearly an avenger is committed torture.

Edward: He's committing torture and we just write it off. I think partly because it's a villain that he did it too, and partly because we can't see the impact. I think your point of if he had been frozen where he's in the middle of Central Park as a frozen statue and we know his mind is still working, but he's not able to move or communicate or do anything. I think people would be offended and mad, but because he's like off in space somewhere, it's like, oh, you know, we can't. We just, we'll just ignore it and, and call Thor the bravest, most self-sacrificing. How is self-sacrificing? What did he self, did he sacrifice anything?

Micheal: Nothing. And this skips over and I don't wanna skip over the idea that this is actually a punishment without a trial. It's imprisonment as a ghost without a trial. It just offends all notions of justice and liberty.

Edward: And, and it was premeditated too, it's not premeditated murder. It's premeditated extra-judicial torture intentions. Torture. Yeah. Like before this whole thing happened when, when Creole was happening when he was like causing problems and before Thor was able to deal with him, Thor also spoke to the reporter and told him that, what was it? What did he say? He said that, that crusher is too powerful for regular law .

Micheal: So that's it. Right? So is it that, would people be more accepting of what's happened here because Thor has determined that, nothing else is gonna work. We gotta deal with this trust me on this, guys. This is somebody I can't defeat and therefore, All the rules are, there's no rules and he's throwing the book out. It's just coming up with a new way of dealing with it. I don't think we can accept that.

Edward: It feels like there's a few things going on. One is the fact that there's some sort of bar above which if anybody is above that bar, they are so powerful that we stop falling the law. Like the fact that we create that bar at all. Should there be some level of power that we ignore the law, it feels like as you get more powerful, that makes the law even more important to follow.

Micheal: It would render the law meaningless, to be honest, because this is why the Lords back in the time of the Magna Carta went to King John and said, we need to have rules here and that they wrote out the world's first, or the West, sorry, not the world's, but England certainly wrote out the rules that should apply, the laws that should apply, not just to people that the king feels they should be applied to, but to the king or queen themselves. It's my sense of the Magna Carta in my head

Edward: There was an ammendment to the Magna Carta that said that it applies to all people, including the king, but not to very powerful super villains.

Micheal: Oh, that whole, the, well, that's the first amendment to the Magna Carna. The first Amendment. That's now...

Edward: And even if we gave them that, even if we said, you know what, okay, when someone gets so powerful, the only way to deal with them is to ignore the law and just allow Thor to be the final arbiter of everything. Even if we agree to that, then the question becomes is how powerful? Who decides how powerful that is? Is there a certain... Hey, you know what, Human, Torch law applies to him? Cause he's not that powerful. But, you know, The Thing, he's so powerful that the law starts up, doesn't start applying to him. Do we have some sort of ranking of power levels of individuals and if you are a villain, your goal is to get as close to that top of that bar as possible without going over

Micheal: It's frightening. And what about this? So what if Thor didn't have good intentions? What if Thor just decided that, you know what, this guy's more powerful than me and I like being the most powerful, strongest superhero out there. And so he just decides, actually this new superhero that's out there, superpowered person, he's more powerful than me. So we need, we needed to deal with him right away cuz he was, he was doing bad things. Trust me on that. That's kind of what happened here. We know in this case that Creel was a bad person and he'd done bad things.

Edward: He was in prison before this whole thing happened. He should be put back in. Even if he committed no crimes, he still needs to be put back in prison for his old crimes.

Micheal: That's right. But so in that case though, so we know he is done bad things. I don't say he's necessarily a bad person, but he is done bad things and he is battling Thor. And that's enough for Thor to decide because he's so powerful. I'm just gonna be judge, jury and executioner.

Edward: Judge, jury and torture.

Micheal: Torture in chief. And how do we know that Thor couldn't just with that new power that he has this authority, he could just do that whenever he feels like if somebody is threatening him. Like what if there's, I don't know hercules comes around , right? Hercules might be stronger than Thor. If the Hercules exists, if the Greek myth, He says, no, no, no, no. You guys don't know. I know Hercules. He's a bad dude. He's stronger than me. And so I battled him and I and I killed him, or I turned him into, I don't know, I tied him into healing blooms and he's floating through space forever, whatever.

Edward: I made him hold the earth for all eternity with a raven plucking at his liver. He's not what God's do.

Micheal: Yeah, that's, that's right. So it is troubling and if we allow this to happen, if we allow this to continue, then we're accepting the fact that the laws don't apply equally. And that we're also allowing superpowered individuals to write their own laws and write their own rules

Edward: Effectively there's two laws out there now. There's the laws that apply to everybody unless you're a threat to Thor.

Micheal: I don't like it.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss whether the Fantastic Four or the Beatles are more famous. The Thing and the Human Torch were recently at a Beatles show and did some damage while capturing thieves who targeted the cashboxes. Who should pay for that damage? Should good samaritans like the Fantastic Four be held responsible? If they are, what type of disincentive does that create for other superheroes to help others? Are there more superpowered people out there who are keeping their abilities secret because they can’t afford the insurance?

Behind the issue:

The Beatles are first mentioned in the Marvel Universe in Fantastic Four #34 (two months prior to this issue’s release), but this is the first appearance of the actual band. The Beatles' first comic book appearance was a few months earlier in July 1964 when Dell Giant released a special issue focused on the fabulous foursome. A few days after the Dell book hit the stands, an Archie title also mentioned the Beatles (Archie's Girls Betty and Veronica #105) and the girls shopped for wigs, but the actual musicians did not appear. Perhaps the very first appearance was in the aforementioned Archie series #104, which teased the following issue and had a page of text explaining who the Beatles were (see below). The Beatles are mentioned in Marvel Comics a number of times through the years, but, as far as we are aware, they do not appear again until 2007, when it is revealed that the band had been kidnapped years ago and had been replaced by Skrulls (who were responsible for the majority of their music in the Marvel Universe).

In this issue:

The Thing and the Human Torch are getting under each others’ skin, and likely need a break from each other. No such luck, as their girlfriends convince them to go see the breakout sensation from Britain, the Beatles. The foursome head to the show, but before it begins, they learn that the venue’s payroll has been stolen. The Thing and the Torch head out and capture the criminals, but unfortunately miss the entire show.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are more interested in being entertained by the Beatles than being saved by the Fantastic Four, or so we assume

This episode takes place:

After the Beatles have started their British Invasion!

Full transcript:

Edward: Mike, who is more popular? The Beatles or the Fantastic Four ?

Michael: I think if you listen to our show regularly, you would assume the Fantastic Four. But if you lived in the real world you'd probably say The Beatles people meaning it for a reason, right?

Edward: Fantastic Four have clubs, fan clubs, but there's no fantastic mania. How even the four mania how would you even say that?

Michael: Yeah, I don't know ff mania, but like, you know, there's, I think

Edward: we don't swear on the show, Mike. No swearing on the show.

Michael: Yeah, . Well, they're certainly popular. They're incredibly popular and they're being followed and there's celebrity magazines that report on them, but, Nothing like the Beatles. Nothing like The Beatles has happened in a superhero superpowered world. Yeah.

Edward: And in this particular case, we had the Fantastic Four went to go and see a Beatles show and we've had no incidences, we know about where the Beatles have gone to see a Fantastic four show.

Michael: No, they're not showing up the Baxter Building, you know, pen and paper hand asking for autographs. Although, funny about it is maybe it's just a comment on human nature or our society, but like the Fantastic Floor have saved the world more than once.

Edward: And Beatles, the Beatles have not, Beatles have never saved the world.

Michael: So you think, you'd think that if there's gonna be this adulation, idolatry, of anyone, it would be the fantastic for, but no, it definitely isn't. It definitely is not. The Beatles are far more popular.

Edward: Yeah. The, I guess the Beatles have saved music.

Michael: Okay, we'll go with that. They definitely struck a nerve in our society and they're making their mark. And so time will tell us whether the Beatles will be remembered. But right now it's hard to avoid them. If you're trying to avoid them, they're everywhere.

Edward: There's that question too, a thousand years from. Looking far, very, very far in the future, are we gonna remember the Fantastic four of the Beatles and I think it would be the Fantastic four, the first real superheroes on the planet are I imagine more memorable than any music band

Michael: the Fantastic four are, as we chronicled or the vanguard of this new evolution of almost post humanity then this is a moment in our history, where there's, who knows where we're going to evolve to. So my money would be that the Beatles are a flash in the pan and the Fantastic four are here to stay

Edward: and interesting there's four of each of them. I think that's a coincidence?

Michael: Oh my, I didn't think about that. So do you think that maybe, do you think that there's a matching principle going on here, we noted in, remember we talked about recently with the frightful four, there's four of them and we're just confused as to why they would limit them.

Why wouldn't they be like the hateful eight or something. But instead it's like they pick the four and the beetles are quarted as well. So do you think. Are we? Are the Beatles being influenced by the Fantastic Four? Is music being influenced by superhero culture?

Edward: Yeah, maybe. Or maybe the other way around. Maybe the Fantastic Four just search out for groups of four things.

Michael: Yeah.

Edward: They go to the grocery store and be like, yeah, I know you have a dozen eggs, but do you have like a smaller package, like maybe a third the size?

Michael: Or maybe. Or maybe it's just. Things come into four, right? There's the four of food groups, there's four seasons. It kinda just naturally would evolve to where the Fantastic four, who, when you really think about their powers are quite elemental in nature. They have this sort of,

Edward: there's four elements. There you go.

Michael: There's four elements. Yeah. So maybe there's an inherent connection to the idea of having teams of four. Although maybe I'm just spinning some mirror here. But anyways,

Edward: Can you match them? Can you look at the, we talked about this before, the frightful four. There's like a match almost between, Medusa had her stretchy hair. Mr. Fantastic Reed, Richards could stretch his body. There was kind of a rough match between

Michael: mm-hmm.

Edward: the Frightful Four and the Fantastic Four. Can we do the same thing with the Beatles, is there does Paul match to Sue? Like what is the match? The Four Beatles and the four Fantastic. Four.

Michael: You know, I just don't know enough about 'em but maybe there might be something there. Maybe that's something that if they stick around, we can we'll explore it a little more and look, maybe they're the first. Maybe the Beatles were the first super. Powered band. Maybe we're gonna find out that they have powers too. Just don't know about, we just know, know

Edward: IF it happens to anybody, it'll happen to the Beatles. I think a couple things to talk about. I think with this encounter with the Beatles and the Fantastic Four, well, I guess the Fantastic Half, the Fantastic four, it was The Thing in the Human. Torch were going to see a show and in the process, I guess someone tried to steal all the money from the show and

Michael: mm-hmm.

Edward: the Fantastic Four prevented that. So I guess they did, they did their good deed for the day. But in the process of doing that good deed, they did some damage and. I think this is interesting is that the damage that they caused is not being paid for by the theater, not being paid for by the Beatles, not being paid for by the government, not even being paid for by an insurance company. The fantastic for themselves are gonna cover that damage. And I think that's just, it's interesting that it wasn't like The Thing and the Human Torch were being professionally employed by anybody. They went out of their way to help the Beatles or to help the theater anyway with these thieves, and now because of that good deed, they're gonna have to pay. They're taking the money outta their own pocket, and that doesn't seem,

Michael: It doesn't, and it, but it's interesting. It probably, it gives us some insight into the institutional nature of the, or at least the institutional connection between the Fantastic Four the society that they live in.

 So we've talked before about how the Avengers seem to have a pretty direct connection, almost be a separate like military force or arm of the armed forces in America. But the Fantastic Four haven't. You think that Fantastic Four has some kind of formal relationship. As being almost a police force that they would. They'd have an immunity from any kind of possible civil liability or prosecution if they're,

Edward: are you saying that they are a police force or they should be a police force?

Michael: I'm saying that they aren't, because if they were then if they're acting in the course of their duties, then they would have an immunity from prosecution and civil liability to provide that they were still carry of their duties within their own responsibility. And so then they wouldn't care about paying the damage themselves because if they got sued, they have an insurance policy, they would respond. And they're not, they won't be worried about, say, being arrested for the damage that they caused in the course of exercising their duties.

Edward: And that's, I was gonna say that's probably true. If when the US military went and asked the Fantastic four to go and take down the Hulk, they were basically working under the under the authority of the US military, and I'm assuming that any damage caused during that battle with the huk was paid for by the US government, by the military. In this case nobody asked Ben and Johney to go and stop the thieves. They just, they were good Samaritans and they went and did it. That changes the calculation a little bit.

Michael: It does up that. I think when they're tasked by the American military, I think that they could be considered to be contractors in that role. But I am saying that here, that they just acted as good Samaritans and did a public good. They acted as if they were, police officers. But the fact that they paid outta pocket tells me that they don't have any kind of special protection or immunity from prosecution or from civil liability. So they did, then they wouldn't have reached into their own pocket. But the fact they reach into their own pocket tells me that they're doing the analysis, which is that it's probably better for us just to pay outta pocket than to get sued by the people that owned the buildings that were damaged or anyone that had a possible liability claim.

It's probably just worth their time to pay it out. So they must have number one tons of money. And number two they don't have any kind of protection. So number three, they're gonna use their money to avoid getting sued and have their time being eaten up. It's just worth their time to just pay people rather than having a claim against them.

Edward: But I guess why are they doing it at all? So basically these thieves came in, they stole the money, they took off if Ben and Johney just said, oh, you know what, that's not our problem. We're gonna go sit and watch the show.

Michael: Mm-hmm. ,

Edward: Then number one, they get to see the show, and number two is they're only out of the ticket price. Instead, they went and chased these guys down. They didn't get to see the show, and they had not having to pay a bunch of money outta their pocket. What was the incentive for them to do that?

Michael: That's The Thing, right? If there was a, they had immunity from a civil lawsuit, then they would go do it. But here they clearly don't. And so they had to pay out of pocket because they're involved in this incident that caused damage and they pay out pocket cuz it's easier for them to make the claim go away, the potential gifts go away. And I don't know what their incentive is other than to do that other than that they're heroic or because they feel they can solve the problem and they have so much money that it's worth it for them to both be heroic and to also make sure that they don't have their time wasted that they're, after you keep against them,

Edward: you keep saying they have so much money. Is that true?

Michael: They'd have to, otherwise they wouldn't do it. If they didn't why would they pay out of pocket? Why would they wait and get sued? I guess.

Edward: I guess that's my question. So where's that money coming from? I guess they had that one movie that they had a while back. And Reed has some inventions that he's invented. He lost all his inventions that he invented in the past due to that bankruptcy. But he presumably he's invented other things since then but it doesn't seem that that's an unlimited fund of money. I just, I think there's a, from my business world. One of the heroes of the business world was Adam Smith, who invented the whole idea the trade is good. And one of his famous quotes was, it's not the benevolence of the butcher, the baker, or the brewer that we expect our dinner, but it's regards to their self interest. We don't count on the butchers and the bakers to give us their foods for free. Why are we counting on superheroes to do all of their work for free?

Michael: We're missing some information then, right? Because it's clearly happening. So number one, the Fantastic Four don't have this protection from being suit for damage that they cause in the course of acting heroically because they're paying out pocket, because that's the only reason that you would pay outta pocket. So why would they continue? Why would they do it?

Edward: So let me dive into that cause it's exactly right. It sounds like of there's an incentive to be a butcher, there's an incentive to be a baker.

Michael: Mm-hmm.

Edward: society incentivizes people to be police officers and salesmen and retail clerks and radio personalities like us, there's all sorts of incentives in the system for these things. It sounds like right now there's a disincentive to be a superhero, and so that's what, okay, go ahead.

Michael: I was gonna say that, but that's where I think this is going is that. On its face it doesn't make any sense unless they have so much money and how are they getting so much money? I don't know. Perhaps it's that we are talking about the Fantastic four who have access to space travel and interdimensional travel, right? Based on their recent adventures to our knowledge.

Edward: They're just stealing from other dimensions and bringing,

Michael: I don't, yeah, I don't know. I do not know if they have access to resources or minerals or something that we don't have access to here and that we're just not made aware of it. Or Reed has been inventing things and selling and profiting off of that.

Edward: Yeah. So I guess that could be it, right? So you could be Right. Maybe they're just obscenely wealthy and in order to keep that wealth, in order to keep getting access to these other dimensions and keep the government off their back, they go and do good deeds for good public relations and those good deeds cost them money. But in the same way that, I dunno, Proctor and Gamble donates to clean water in Kenya, they're just like going like they're, it's like the tax on them. The good deed tax is there to keep their good PR so that they can go and make their money some other way that we don't really know.

Michael: Yeah but on a personal level I work as a lawyer, so I make my money by going to work and billing and I bill my time. And so if I'm walking to work and I see someone's gonna walk into traffic and I'm gonna stop them because that's a normal human thing to do and it, but on a cost benefit, I guess it costs me time so therefore it costs me money. Cause I don't get to go to work early enough. But, It's on a human level it's what you wanna do. Now if it's now if to save, if I saw someone fall into traffic and for me to save them would require me to, you know, run.

Edward: You don't want to skuff your shoes.

Michael: No, but if I could lose my life, then I think that it might be more, I'd hope I'd be heroic and chance losing my life to save somebody who's falling into traffic but I don't know, maybe that's where there would be a line. And what I'm saying is that the fantastic core haven't hit that line yet. Yeah, it's still worth their time.

Edward: Let's going back to this scenario, it's even worse than that. It's imagine if now you go and you save that guy, he falls down the road and you rush into the road and you save him but in so doing so, you cause a car to swerve and hit another car. And so now they wanna fine you for that car accident because you jumped in the way to save that dude. That doesn't seem right either. It's one thing you've already risked your life, you've already taken your time. Now we're gonna say, Hey, oh, and by the way, now we want your money too.

Michael: That analysis only works, that analogy only works, is that I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, hold on a second. Let me pay for everything outta my own pocket. But I have an insurance policy that would respond to it. So likely I'm gonna be okay. So even if I did that quick math in my head, is it worth it for me to go in traffic?

Edward: Yeah. But should your insurance company be paying for that? The guy who busted his car up again, not, not his fault, maybe the guy who felt that in traffic, you go after him, but going after the insurance company of the guy who saved the person's life, that doesn't seem right,

Michael: It doesn't work like that though. If somebody falls into traffic and I go in and try to save them, as a result, some other car gets into an accident. I guess if they sustained injury, they would sue me. They wouldn't Sue the insurance company. My insurance company would respond on behalf of me. And there are some legitimate legal defenses that would apply to that very scenario where it's there. I didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't negligent. They'd have to establish negligence in order to trigger it. But my point was less about the intricacies of motor vehicle law and claims, and more just to say that my analysis is not gonna be influenced. I wouldn't have to think I take into my pocket and pay this person out rather than pay my deductible so that when I got sued, that my insurance company would respond and defend me. Whereas the Fantastic Four, clearly it's just not worth it for them to. To possibly don't have insurance, which I don't think they do to respond to the claims that would be made them damaging that

Edward: if they did their insurance would be so high ,

Michael: they'd be so high.

Edward: What insurance?

Michael: You're an orange, rocky, monster that could destroy a building. So I think the insurance would be quite high if you had it. But at the same time, they could sued personally. The, Thing would have to, he is paying outta pocket. They must have so much money that it's just like there's, they're not even thinking about being tied up in a potential lawsuit later because so much dough

Edward: and so clearly all these disincentives that we're creating haven't stopped the Fantastic Four from existing. But what's I always find interesting is when these disincentives exist, we have to ask what isn't happening because of these disincentives. Are there lots and lots of other superheroes out there that are being like, you know what, I don't wanna be a superhero. Look how much it's gonna cost. It's too expensive to be a superhero, like being a lawyer. I'll just be a lawyer by day and a nothing by night because it's too expensive.

Michael: Well, I'm not, nothing by night a cause you know that.

No that's why Spider-Man wears a mask. We've been quite critical on Spider-Man, how he wears a mask and doesn't reveal his identity would be super critical of him.

Edward: And it's not, it's not afraid of a villain's attacking him. It's not because he's wants to do criminal things. It's because he's not super rich. Everyone who's not super rich wants to be a superhero, has to cover their face.

Michael: So maybe, so I think the solution would be if we recognize it being a superhero is public good, much like having volunteer firefighters and police officers and things like that, then there needs to be new legislation passed in order to provide some immunity from civil prosecution civil claims, if he did, it would remove that disincentive if The Thing and the Torch burned down a building or destroy a building, the building owner can't sue them because they were legitimately acting the course of their superhero duties and roles, then I guess I had to put a claim over to their insurance company. But what would, and I think the only way that works is that probably all of our insurance rates are gonna rise to accommodate that but it's pretty fair to spread their risk out of superhero related damage

Edward: It does. And then what that should open up is all these other superheroes that are presumably hiding right now and aren't doing anything. Or have they have secret identities or they have no identities at all because they're not super, they're just, well, they're super, but not heroes. If you wanna take, if you want more of your supers to be heroes, fix the insurance laws.

Michael: No fix. You know what we need to have, there? Have to be local, state level and federal legislation that's passed in order to have, immunity from prosecution and immunity from civil claims pass. And that the question for us, I guess as a society, is that a better way to go? Or is it better to have them running around with masks and I don't know. I used to be pretty anti masked, but now I'm kind of seeing the value of it.

Edward: Yeah. I think these laws, when you create these new laws, don't they have like catchy names and stuff too?

Can we call this law the put the hero back in supers?

Michael: I like where you're going with this, but what it be like, there's no i n team, but there's I Insurance Act from 1965.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Reed and Sue’s engagement party. Why were only superheroes invited? Was there another non-superpowered person party that was kept secret? Also: the Wizard has recruited Paste Pot Pete, Sandman and Medusa to become the “Frightful Four”. Why did he stop with four villains? If he really wanted to defeat the Fantastic Four, he should have created the Terrible Twelve or the Amazing Eighteen. Why are the villains fighting fair? At least they waited until the party was over.

Behind the issue:

This is the first appearance of Medusa, who is clearly tied to Greek Mythology at this point. Later she will be retroactively changed to being the noble Queen of the Inhumans, but there is no sign of that at this point.

In this issue:

The media are abuzz, and falling over themselves, with the news of Reed and Sue’s engagement. Meanwhile, the Wizard has gathered together three other super-powered people to create his own Frightful Four - the Sandman and Paste Pot Pete, who happened to be flying by the Wizard as he floated through the atmosphere weightlessly after his last misadventure, and Medusa. The newly formed Frightful Four attack the Fantastic Four at their headquarters after Reed and Sue’s engagement party (which was full of superheroes) and nearly defeat them, although they are ultimately defeated, with the Frightful Four mysteriously disappearing from the fray.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are more interested in who attended the party than the FF’s battle with the other FF.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four have seemingly defeated their apparently evil counterparts.

Full transcript:

Edward: I don't think any journalists were invited to this engagement party. Mike, did you get an invitation?

Michael: No, and I was looking for it. But sadly, no.

Edward: Reed Richards and Sue Storm are now officially engaged. I think they were unofficially engaged before, but now this is like a, kinda like they're coming out big party and a big, big giant celebration at the Baxter building.

And, well I say big, but it was probably more intimate in that it was really only other superheroes that were invited to this party.

Michael: It's sort of funny you'd think that they would've parlay, I mean, the superheroes, like the Fantastic Four are the most celebrity focused kind of superhero, I think the most media friendly superheroes.

You'd think that that would lead to them parlaying that celebrity into connecting with other celebrities outside of their particular field. Because you look at Hollywood parties, it's not necessarily that rock musicians only hang out with rock musicians when they throw parties.

 All forms of entertainment types seem to gather. So it's sort of funny that superheroes only invite superheroes for their big party.

Edward: Seems that's even weirder than that. You think about if, Reed and Sue, presumably like they've not been superheroes for that long, we're talking about a few years now, four years, did they not have any friends or family from prior to them being superheroes that, maybe would wanna invite to their party?

 This engagement party was such a publicity event okay, so some rockstar gets, I'm sure like celebrities know celebrities and some rockstar gets married to some other rockstar. They invite a lot of rock stars, but presumably they also invite their brother and their I don't know, their, friend that they had from when they were a kid. These people have these entourages doesn't look like Reed and Sue do it looks like their only real friends to invite to this party were the X-Men and the Avengers.

Michael: Shows they have a complete dissociation to their past life. It just seems odd. Maybe this, actually, I've been thinking about this this whole time.

We're talking, what if this is just the public one?

Edward: Oh, I see. They're having another one

Michael: This is a celebrity one, right? The photos. That's true because the media we're there. I don't know, maybe let's play it out this way. If you are Sue storm's cousin, would you really want to go where there's all these nosy tabloid photographers because there were a ton there, right?

Edward: More than that. We know that every time these superheroes have some public event, they're attacked by super villains and see, do you want, do you want your cousin to show up and be attacked by the wizard?

Michael: So maybe what they did here was. Okay. At first I thought was just weird, but now it kind of, it makes a little bit of sense. Okay, we're gonna have this, and we know that the tabloids would rather have a picture of say the Human Torch standing next to Thor. You know what I mean? So we'll have, we'll throw that and that that'll give the tabloid. Reporters and photographers a chance to write their story and take their photographs and that's the public one.

And then there's more personal and intimate one that's with their friends who aren't in the game. And that way you don't put them at risk. That's true actually, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Edward: Does make a ton of sense. It's interesting cause I say there was only superheroes invited, There were, there were two non superheroes invited to the party. One was Professor Xavier, who's an expert. The mutant genes. And how these mutants are happening. And the second was Bruce Banner, who was the, the guy who saved the world , from the alien invasion a couple years back. So I guess when you, save the world from an alien invasion, you're an honorary superhero.

Michael: Yeah. And they didn't care about the safety of those two guys, I guess, . Wow. Well, they're very smart. They can, they can figure, they can respond.

Edward: I guess the other thing around safety is , we know that, when Spider-Man shows up at his fan club, they, get attacked. And when Reed Richards goes and talks at his alma mater he gets attacked, but in this case, you had to be a pretty ballsy superhero to go and attack the Fantastic Four and the X Man and the Avengers all in the same place at the same time.

Michael: So maybe it could have had Aung Pentunia show up, but I don't know. It doesn't seem to make, I think I can see why they split this up.

Edward: It's interesting that I talked about, these, villains attacking, the Baxter Building was attacked by super villains, but I guess they waited until the party was over. Let's wait until Thor vacates the building before we attack Reed Richards.

Michael: Smart. They're getting smarter Ed. They're just getting smarter. .

Edward: Well, the Wizard is one of the, the smartest, villains. Well, one of the smartest people in the world. Right? He was known as well before he became a villain. He was one of the smartest people in the world didn't, he still hasn't been able to defeat the Fantastic Four using, incredible brilliance.

But he has been able to recruit, a more substantial team. He's realized that trying to take them on, on his own is not the way to go. And so now he's recruited, uh, pop. Yeah. How Pace pot. Pot pee., yep. Who he's worked with before, but now he's also recruited the Sandman and this new, super villa villains super villainous, named Medusa, at his side.

And so, I guess four on four is probably, better odds. And as far as, as far as we know, it was kind of a stalemate, right? So they, they, they did not successfully hurt the Fantastic Four, but they also escaped fairly unharmed.

Michael: Well, yeah. It's interesting though, it seems like the wizards figured out, like you say, he might have stand a better chance if he has a team of his own, but it seems like incredibly personal, his whole purpose of his team seems to be to match up perfectly with the Fantastic four, apparently they're called the Frightful Four , and it's just

Edward: He's just trolling them now. He's just trolling them with that.

Michael: He's trolling them. Like, I mean, like I, I took issue with, there's been some unimaginative team names, like Fantastic Four is one of them. It just seems like it's a

Edward: Terrible trio. Remember the terrible trio?

Micheal: Yeah, that's right. But they're just trying to like, No, no, no. I'm not looking about world going for world domination anymore. I'm just doing this because I'm a better, smarter person than read Richards, it seems to be what seems to be what the Wizard's trying to go for it

Edward: And clearly getting, getting four of them together is, gives them better odds and trying to take him on like one on four. But it's funny that he can go further. Like why? Why stop at four? And then why even limit yourself with your branding, the Frightful Four? Why not be be like the terrible 12 and that that yeah, your odds are gonna be a lot better.

Michael: Yeah, exactly. So maybe, maybe the wizard isn't as smart as he thinks. .

Edward: He needs a few more. He needs a few more.

We are using a new service to edit these episodes. As part of the process it produces a full transcript. The transcript is not perfect, but it’s pretty close! And we think we will get better over time. Transcripts will be included below. Enjoy!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the ending of martial law and the innocence of the Avengers. They were framed by Count Nefaria, but the events showed just how poorly the country was prepared for our heroes turning on us. And why were we fooled to begin with? Shouldn’t there be some method of double-checking when a hero declares war to make sure it really is the hero? We live in a world of mind control, and magical and technological illusions. Some sort of back-up plan should be in place. Why wasn’t it? Also: After causing a national state of emergency, why is Count Nefaria being deported rather than charged with the crimes he committed in this country? Do all Counts get diplomatic immunity? Even when they cause the Avengers to battle the U.S. Air Force?

Behind the comic:

This is the first appearance of Count Nefaria. He will soon battle the X-Men and Iron Man in a solo outing. Eventually, he dies due to his experiments, but is resurrected to join the Legion of the Unliving. While he never achieved iconic status, he is active in the Marvel Universe to this day.

In this issue:

The Avengers have successfully stymied American crime, and the Maggia is unhappy about it. Their secret leader is Count Nefaria, the most powerful crime lord on earth. He is also the wealthiest European nobleman. He decides to move to America, having his castle rebuild brick by brick in America. He meets with the Avengers and basically creates holograms of them. He sends thr hologram Avengers into the real world and has them basically declare war on the US. The US responds by declaring the Avengers enemies of the state. This all happens while the Avengers are basically kept in suspended animation. They are released from suspended animation and are attacked by American troops. They respond by battling the armed forces, only to find that they are public enemy number one. The Avengers eventually figure out what has happened and they confront Count Nefaria and defeat him. Count Nefaria is deported, and the Avengers are left with one of their own, the Wasp, having been struck down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are happy the Avengers did not try to take over America, but they are not exactly comfortable with the idea that they could probably take on the combined U.S. armed forces.

This episode takes place:

After some major P.R. on behalf of the Avengers, the former, wrongfully accused, enemies of the state.

Full transcript of the episode:

Edward: All right, Mike. It was not mind control. It was not the chameleon doing an impression of them. But, the Avengers are not actually trying to take over America. It was all a false alarm.

Michael: What an alarm. False alarm though. I mean there was conflict between the Avengers and the American military

Edward: Correct. So the confrontation that happened in New Jersey where the Avengers fought the Air Force, that was the real Avengers fighting the real Air Force. They took down the planes. The Avengers, the real Avengers actually did go into hiding. They were at large. The prior where the Avengers actually threatened the Pentagon, the thing that started the incident that started all of this where the Avengers threatened America's democracy and tried to dismiss the Pentagon. Those were not the real Avengers

Michael: is what we're being told. And it's just, but it's. I don't know. There's mistakes and then there's mistakes, right? like, I mean, so if there wasn't mind control and this wasn't, imposters, if this is just a misunderstanding, it's quite the misunderstanding. Cuz it's like if, the Grand Admiral, the Navy has a misunder, there's a misunderstanding about where their loyalties lie and the Navy goes to, gets into a scrap with the rest of the armed forces cuz the adventures are basically part of our armed forces. And it just , it just seems like something you have to be sure about and, you know, and it's like, especially given they have high security clearances.

They're granted extraordinary powers. Masked vigilantes, that have effectively turned into an arm of a division of our government. And the idea that you just assume that they turned against you based on a misunderstanding. I dunno. It was blowing my mind, Ed.

Edward: It's clear that, that we jumped the gun, right. To be clear this is Count Nefario, who is the, richest nobleman in Europe has admitted to causing all these problems. And what he did is he created some sort of electro images of the Avengers. An illusion effectively, that apparently had the ability to be seen and heard. And he sent these illusions at the Pentagon and made this whole thing start. But I guess the first question is why do we believe that? Why were we fooled by these illusions? is there not some sort of double check, double checking mechanism to be like, Oh, you know what? Captain America just said that he's declaring war in America. Let's call Captain America and make sure that this is the real guy. This is, we're sure about this. like what's the. Hey, Captain, before you declare war on US Captain America please tell us the code that we've given you to verify that you actually are Captain America. What if an illusion of the president comes in and says like, I want to fire a nuclear weapon. We have nuclear codes that he has to type in. So we can't get fooled by a president impersonator. Why are we being fooled by a Captain America Impersonation?

Michael: Well, maybe this shows a bit of the naivety on the American military and government that they didn't have those built in redundancies or, backups or fail safes. Right. I'm sure that the American intelligence agencies are always checking to make sure that there aren't any slip-ups with people in high ranking authority, the American military and, government. That's the point of intelligence gathering operations to make sure you're not surprised. And I guess what this shows is that maybe there isn't, there wasn't that level of intelligence operations within the Avengers, which we know is, well, it's only five people. there's more to them than that. I mean, especially given their connections with Star Corp. So maybe it's just shows the naivety

 And then the next step is interesting competence. I think there's gonna be a crackdown. Well, there should be. There should be. Like, there has to be where you have to make sure. Sorry, but you, It's that the adventures themselves are gonna be like, under greater scrutiny and, they'll know it now because it's for their own benefit as much as anyone else too.

Edward: I wonder how much of it was that, first of all, we didn't have the processes in place and we need to have those processes in place. We live in a world where mind control exists, where Mastermind is a criminal that the Xmen shared with us that can create these illusions.

We, knew that, the ability to create, We didn't know about Campari's illusions, but we knew that there were villains out there that had the ability to create illusions. We needed to have, measures in place so we're not fooled by them. I also wonder how much of it was That people kind of just believed it without question, as soon as Avengers turned on us, it wasn't a matter of like, this is not possible. It was, Oh, this is happening. Let's deal with it. Like it feels when the top heroes in your country turn against you. Maybe we shouldn't have just like taken it at face value.

Michael: I think, ready fire aim is not a good approach to dealing with people who have, you know, been rightly without it for being heroes. I mean, it was shockingly last time we were speaking about this, you know, we were, well, we were in shock, because we couldn't believe what was happening. And I think to be fair to us, it did seem that it was happening because you wouldn't assume that the American military would go to go to war with the ventures over a misunderstanding. So it is quite shocking. It's something that has to, that we have to, I'd imagine there's gonna be congressional hearings in this for years.

Edward: A few other things that are worth talking about. So, number two is, when we last spoke, we talked about why weren't the Fantastic four and the X-Men called in to deal with this. Mm-hmm. , I think we've, we've found out now that they were actually specifically asked to step down. Like they, they basically were told to stay back and let the military handle it. And I, I. Number one, whether that, Well, first of all, was, was that a good idea in not, or should they have done that or should the process be in place that the other heroes take charge when that happens? Or number two is were there suspicions already that the Avengers kind of weren't the enemy here and that's why they held back the Fantastic Four as we'll use them if we need them, but let's just keep things under control and not start a superhero war until we're really, really sure that these guys are actually the problem.

Michael: I don't know because my thinking was just that if the intelligence operations with respect to the Avengers are so piss poor, then I'd imagine they would be similarly, ine. For the fantastic for the Xmen, such that I don't think the military could really trust what they were seeing or what, or their, their past relationships. So my thing is they wouldn't bring them in because they didn't wanna compound the problem the way we were talking about it in our last broadcast, but who knows? I mean, what's sort of interesting is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of countermeasures set up for the avenger. because we didn't see that in the field. We didn't see, how Dr. Blake had created that Andrea that could effectively respond to Thor. But I didn't hear about that being put into the field.

Edward: It just, what you're saying is that this was kind of like, If the Avengers or the Fantastic Four, the X-Men did turn against our country for real, this was the dry run on how we would respond.

And like, I dunno, the grade is not a D minus. Do we give them an F? Yeah,

Michael: It's terrible. It's terrible. And so, and I think I wouldn't probably chance bringing in other superpower people that might not be on your side. This is a huge deal. It's should shock the world into preparing countermeasures to combat the potential. Of the Avengers turning on us, in a democracy where we're set up with checks and balances, just doesn't seem to be any, for superpowered individuals still, and we've been talking about this for a long time, but there should be.

Edward: And if anything I think makes it, it makes it worse because now imagine military recruitment is never easy, right? Recruiting kids to go and join the militaries is hard. You're asking them to potentially sacrifice their life for the country, but now they, number one is you can be called up if you, even if you're a reservist, they were called up in this situation where right reservists are rarely called up in this country. And so they were called up and then they're called to do, they're called up and asked to fight a mythical God. Like, like, like you're, you're talking some, some 18 year old kid and we're saying, Hey, here, here, take this rifle and you are gonna have to fight the God of Thunder. It's one thing to go up against,, Vietcong, or humans. It's another thing to fight a Giant Man.

Michael: I know you're gonna fight somebody that can shrink the size of an ant and then grow to the size of, an elephant, in a matter of seconds. Or you might fight against, one of the greatest American heroes, Captain America, like an expert in hand, hand combat that to help bring down the Nazis. I mean, it's a lot. What we're really circling around is the fact that. We have in our emergency preparedness, we get a failing grade. And what's gonna happen now at Imagine is that there's gonna be investigations into why. And I think that all superheroes, no matter. Their past service are gonna be under greater scrutiny, and I would even suggest possibly greater control. At the same time, there's gonna be, a greater investment into countermeasures to combat them. Even though it turns out that it wasn't the emergency. We thought it was, it still wasn't very good. It's not good for anybody it turns out.

Edward: And meanwhile, the guy who caused all this is Count Nefario. He's not being charged. He's being deported, but what he did caused, Well, it could have been worse. Right? The battle between the Avengers and the Air Force that happened that was caused because of his, actions. No one was, killed. But million dollar fighter jets were destroyed. And they could have been if it had been successful, if the Air Force had successfully killed Captain America, this guy would be directly responsible for that and we're just deporting him back to Europe

Michael: Well, don't ignore the fact that he potentially destabilized the world order…

Edward: …with no consequences. It was just last week that we talked about, Bruce Banner being charged with treason. They charged the Avengers with treason. Now those, both, those charges, all those charges have been pulled away. I guess we can't charge them with, treason if they're not American, so I guess we can't charge count nefario with treason. But what's the equivalent of treason for someone who's not American? It's not being deported. It's, what? He's an enemy combatant now. Like shouldn't we put him into prison?

Michael:  I don't think he's, a diplomat or something. He's a rich European and I think a rich

Edward: He's a count, He's a noble. Do all nobles get diplomatic immunity?

Michael: No, they don't. And so he committed crimes in America. So, sending him back to Europe is not what should happen. He should have been arrested. Maybe though, Maybe the American government was just sweeping us under the rug, because there's the reasons we've been discussing that. It was such a catastrophic intelligence military. Political failure, they just wanna forget about it. they wanna just move past it as if we should, which we shouldn't. I mean, this is so bad. He's clearly an enemy of America. We don't know the reason why he did this, but I can't imagine it's because he's got our best interest at heart . So why don't, we shouldn't, shouldn't there be, he should have been arrested or should have been a trial and there should be a further investigation. It's, pretty tough. But we'll see. tough day I guess, but we'll see. Cuz it's interesting for us, cuz we have a show about this, but you know,

Edward: Never a dull moment Mike. Never a dull moment.

Michael: Nope.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the declaration of a national state of emergency, martial law, and the Avengers declaring war on America and democracy itself. Where are the other heroes? Is this the best we can do to defend ourselves from these unthinkable events? Was no one prepared for this? Does this mean Iron Man was responsible for Tony Stark’s assassination? These are dark times for America, but the show will go on.

Behind the comic:

This is the first appearance of Count Nefaria, who will go on to have a surprising impact on Marvel comics.

In this issue:

The Avengers have successfully stymied American crime, and the Maggia is unhappy about it. Their secret leader is Count Nefaria, the most powerful crime lord on earth. He is also the wealthiest European nobleman. He decides to move to America, having his castle rebuild brick by brick in America. He meets with the Avengers and basically creates holograms of them. He sends thr hologram Avengers into the real world and has them basically declare war on the US. The US responds by declaring the Avengers enemies of the state. This all happens while the Avengers are basically kept in suspended animation. They are released from suspended animation and are attacked by American troops. They respond by battling the armed forces, only to find that they are public enemy number one. The Avengers eventually figure out what has happened and they confront Count Nefaria and defeat him. Count Nefaria is deported, and the Avengers are left with one of their own, the Wasp, having been struck down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are less than impressed with the Avengers but are willing to move on.

This episode takes place:

After the Avengers have done some spin control to convince people that they were not the enemies they were said to be.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Bruce Banner being charged with, and then absolved of, treason. Only 30 people have ever been charged with treason in America, so what exactly did Banner do? And why were the charges dropped so quickly? The last time treason charges were dropped was in 1947, and the process took four years. If Banner should not have been charged, someone should lose their job. If he SHOULD have been charged, then why were the charges dropped? Is America part of some secret war, and with Banner aiding the enemy. Has he been set free “they” don’t want the public to know about the war? And who are “they” anyway?

Behind the issue:

In the issue, Banner was charged with treason, but the charges are made to go away as a result of the direct involvement of the President (who was informed by Rick Jones). If this had happened in real life, it would have been an impeachable offence by the President. But in real life, it is pretty unlikely that Banner would have ever been charged. In real life, for crimes committed post-WWII, only one person has been charged with treason in the USA. This is largely because the bar to prove treason is so high that most prosecutors will charge the suspect on a different offence. (Note: people were charged with treason after WWII, although all of these charges related to crimes committed during that war - it was not until 2006 that someone was charged with treason, for aiding and abiding Al Qaeda).

In this issue:

Bruce Banner its in a military prison, charged with treason for trying to sabotage his own invention. He had not tried to do that - he was trying to protect his nuclear invention from being captured by the villainous Leader’s Humanoid - but he really cannot explain himself without revealing that he is really the Hulk. Meanwhile, the Leader plots to study his fellow gamma-irradiated human, the Leader. We return to Washington, D.C., where Banner refuses to tell his lawyer why he is innocent (i.e. that he is the Hulk, etc.) His teenage friend Rick Jones shows up and, after flashing his top-priority Avengers I.D. card, visits with the President of the U.S.A. to tell him why Banner is innocent, i.e. that he is the Hulk. The President agrees that it would not be in the public interest for Banner to share his secret, and at the same time, he does not want to lose one of the U.S.’s greatest scientists to a lifetime in prison. Faced with this conflict, the President pulls strings to have Banner cleared of all charges, and Banner goes free. Well, free to head to an island in the ocean to test his new atomic device. While there, Banner turns into the Hulk, and the Leader, who is also interested in Banner’s invention, sends his Humanoids to attack the Hulk. The battle rages and rages, with the Hulk growing more savage and more wild. How will this end?

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering what the heck is happening with Bruce Banner being charged with treason, and the charges then being dropped.

This episode takes place:

After Bruce Banner is cleared of treason.

In this episode:

On the backs of the Atlantean attack on the airline, Mike and Ed discuss the physiology of Atlanteans. If they are evolved for living under the oceans, why do they have legs? Why do they have hair? Why do they have lungs? Something is not adding up. Ed proposes that they are an advanced civilization that used genetic engineering to create their abilities. Mike suggests they might be aliens. They definitely don’t seem to be dolphins.

Behind the issue:

This episode came about from a “post episode” discussion we were having. We decided to turn it into an extra episode for your listening pleasure.

In this issue:

The Wasp’s plane is captured by the Atlanteans as it soars above the ocean, with some kind of bubble structure pulling it, safely, to ground. This attack is orchestrated by the Atlantean war lord Attuma. Giant-Man races to her rescue, taking on the Atlantean warriors and singlehandedly defeating them.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are curious about Atlantean physiology.

This episode takes place:

After people have had another look at Atlanteans.

Note: When this episode was first published it referenced TTA #62. It is actually about TTA #64. We regret the error.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the “attack” on an American airliner by Atlantians. The underwater empire used advanced technology to capture the airplane in a “bubble” and lower it to the water. No one was killed, or even injured, so was it an attack? Are America and Atlantis at war? Or do we just not understand their culture? Do we have an urgent need for sociologists? How many factions of Atlantians are there? Are there more in the Pacific?

Behind the issue:

Tales to Astonish is now split between Giant-Man/the Wasp and the Hulk. We cover the Hulk part of the issue in “part 3”.

In this issue:

The Wasp’s plan is captured by the Atlanteans as it soars above the ocean, with some kind of bubble structure pulling it, safely, to ground. This attack is orchestrated by the Atlantean war lord Attuma. Giant-Man races to her rescue, taking on the Atlantean warriors and singlehandedly defeating them.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if we are at war with Atlantis.

This episode takes place:

After Giant-Man has rescued the Wasp and her fellow passengers, as well as the crew.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the recent exploits of the Human Torch. In less than a week he has captured four super criminals, and he has done it with style. Meanwhile, Dr. Strange has been asked by the media to come forward and explain what magic is, and has refused. The hosts contrast the different choices that these two superheroes have made for handling public relations, and argue that Dr. Strange may be making a choice that leads to being ostracized like Spider-Man. Also: A lack of evidence does not mean something has been proven to not exist.

Behind the comic:

The three issues we discuss in this episode were all released on the same day (at least officially). Marvel’s two most popular characters at the time were Spider-Man and the Human Torch, and ASM #21 is a great example of Stan differentiating the two teenagers: in the eyes of the public, the Torch can do no wrong, and Spider-Man can do nothing right.

In these issues:

Strange Tales #129:

Story one

Three of the supervillains (who were given powers by Dr. Doom previously) have escaped from prison. Johnny “the Human Torch” Storm hears about it while on a date with his girlfriend on the golf course, and quickly races to investigate. He is overpowered by the trio after running out of energy and captured, but is able to fire a flash to alert his teammate Ben “the Thing” Grimm. Ben races to the scene but he is likewise overpowered. The two heroes are tied to train tracks, although the Thing is able to kick the train away, and thereafter capture the three supervillains.

Story two

The media want Dr. Strange to discuss magic on a TV show; he answers the requests with silence. TV presenters who decry Dr. Strange and, from their perspectives, “alleged” magical abilities have an old statue rumoured to have mystic powers that they wanted to ask Dr. Strange about. The four TV presenters mysteriously disappear, leaving only the old statue on the studio floor. Dr. Strange investigates and determines, with the help of his mentor, that the statue does have mystic powers connected with an ancient and evil magician named Tiboro. Dr. Strange confronts Tiboro and is able to best him after a fantastic battle, freeing the four TV presenters. The rescued quartet are grateful and want to put on a show about how magic is real, although Dr. Strange casts a spell so that they all forget what happened.

Amazing Spider-Man #21

The supervillain Abner “the Beetle” Jenkins is released from prison and immediately sets about planning his revenge against the Human Torch. Before the inevitable battle, we see how the public responds to the Human Torch - with love and admiration - and Spider-Man - with fear and trepidation. The Beetle first battles Spider-Man, and their battle leads to them crashing into the house of the Torch’s girlfriend Dorrie. The Beetle kidnaps Dorrie, and when the Torch arrives at her place, he mistakenly thinks that Spider-Man was involved. The two battle and, once the Torch figures out that Spider-Man was not involved in kidnapping Dorrie, they team up to fight the Beetle, eventually overcoming the supervillain.

Tales of Suspense #62:

The episode opens with Iron Man captured and at the mercy of the Mandarin, who goes about monologuing his supervillain origin story (which involves capturing rings from an alien spacecraft). Iron Man breaks free from his confinement and is able to break up the Mandarin’s efforts at starting a nuclear war. The two battle, with the Mandarin fleeing, vowing to destroy Iron Man another day.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if Dr. Strange is legit or a fraud, and they are still unsure about whether Spider-Man can be trusted. Meanwhile, everyone loves the Fantastic Four.

This episode takes place:

After news stories about Dr. Strange refusing to talk about magic, and about Spider-Man and the Torch’s battle, are aired.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Reed Richards’s invitation to speak at New York State University, where he studied many years ago. While he was giving his speech, the campus was attacked by Diablo and a robotic “Dragon Man”. Is it irresponsible to invite superheroes to public events given that they seem to be magnets for supervillains? Do superheroes have their own security like other celebrities, or is having superpowers security enough?

Behind the comic:

Marvel began like DC by using imaginary locations like Metropolis and Gotham, although Stan quickly pivoted to having the Fantastic Four based in New York City. But he still used imaginary locations for smaller cities, African and Eastern European countries, and in this issue, a university. We made the decision in the podcast to call Reed’s alma mater “New York State University”, but in the issue Stan just calls it “State U”. The other interesting set of events that we do not talk about in the episode is Stan’s use of cameo appearances. Apparently while Reed is touring the campus, so is Peter Parker, who is scouting future universities, and Charles Xavier and Scott Summers (Cyclops), who are interviewing students to find more mutants. None of these heroes get involved in the conflict. Perhaps they did not want to wait around for Reed’s speech?

In this issue:

Fantastic Four #35

The Fantastic Four land their Fantasticar at State University, as Reed has been invited to give a speech. He is warmly received. At the same time, Charles Xavier and Scott Summers are on campus, secretly looking for new mutants. Meanwhile, Diablo escapes his earthly imprisonment in Europe and heads straight to America to take his revenge on the Fantastic Four. He arrives at the university, and brings a robot that a university scientist created to life. The robot, which looks like a biped dinosaur and is nicknamed Dragon Man, battles the Four along with Diablo at the University, with the battle shifting out of town. The Four ultimately emerge victorious with the assistance of Dragon Man, who turned on Diablo and pulled him into an icy lake with him to their apparent doom.

Journey into Mystery #113:

Thor refuses to return to Asgard as his father, Odin, wants, as he has fallen in love with a mortal, Jane Foster. He returns to Earth and, in his Dr. Donald Blake identity, admits to Jane that he is actually Thor. Meanwhile, the Grey Gargoyle has returned and decided to search out and battle Thor. We return to Asgard, where Odin, having been manipulated somewhat by Loki, decides to depower Thor, which basically traps Thor in his Blake identity. The timing could not be worse, as Blake is unable to transform into Thor to show Jane who he really is; and because the Grey Gargoyle attacks Blake so that he can lure Thor out. Fortunately, Thor/Blake has friends in high places (Odin has secretly sent a warrior from Asgard to help his son), and he is helped out, and eventually his ability to turn into Thor is restored. He defeats the Grey Gargoyle, as Thor, and as Blake, he basically allows Jane to think he had made up the whole “I am the god of thunder” thing.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are starting to question the safety of being around superheroes. Oh, the irony.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four have defeated Diablo.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss JJJ’s claim that he single-handedly defeated the supervillain called “The Scorpion”. This strains credulity… which makes us question the integrity of the Daily Bugle. Is the publication a newspaper, or a tabloid? In a world of real alien invasions and superpowers, what is the difference anymore? If Big Foot attacked Seattle, would any of us really be surprised? How can tabloids even compete with reality these days? What is the truth, really?

Behind the issue:

This was the first appearance of the Scorpion, who would go on to be one of Spider-Man’s continuing archenemies. It is also revealed that JJJ was directly responsible for the villain’s origin (if not his first defeat).

In this issue:

Peter is wandering around town, wondering if people are following him, and concerned that he may inadvertently reveal his secret identity. Meanwhile, J. Jonah Jameson is mumbling to himself in his office at the Daily Bugle, obsessing about Spider-Man and finally deciding that he needs to meet with a scientist who has apparently figured out how to cause artificial mutations. He convinces the man whom he hired to follow Peter (in hopes of finding Peter’s favourite photo subject, Spider-Man), Mac Gargan, to volunteer for an experiment which will give him the powers of a scorpion. The expieriment works, augmenting Gargan’s strength, and when combined with a scorpion costume, Gargan, now called the Scorpion, feels invulnerable. He heads out and confronts Spider-Man, defeating the young hero. Scorpion, flush with victory, decides to take over the city. He beats some cops, and he then ignores the scientist who gave him his powers, following which the scientist falls to his death. Spider-Man meets up with the scorpion for round two, and they battle. JJJ has second thoughts about his creation of a mutated supervillain when he finds out that the scientist is now dead, and he happens to be at the right place at the right time when Spider-Man defeats the Scorpion, taking credit for the superhero’s victory.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how a middle-aged newspaper published such as J. Jonah Jameson defeated an artificially enhanced, animal-themed supervillain.

This episode takes place:

After JJJ has “defeated” the Scorpion.

Apologies for the gaps in new episode this summer. Even though we had pre-recorded, vacations and some technical difficulties (my computer lost the ability to charge last week) caused us to miss our regular Wednesday drops. We should be back on track going forward and you should get at least an episode a week dropped in this feed every Wednesday morning. We appreciate your patience.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Avengers’ statement to the Daily Standard that the recent tremors felt around the world were created by the Mole Man attempting to speed up the planet’s rotation to destroy all life on the surface. Thank goodness for the Avengers, but how confident are we that villains such as the Mole Man will stop trying to wipe out humanity with new and creative ways? When villains have the ambition to destroy the planet and the technological means to do so, what should we as a society do to prepare? We don’t have all the answers, but we suggest you go and see the leaning Tower of Pisa before someone knocks it over for good…

Behind the issue:

We believe this is the first mention of the “Daily Standard”. Stan usually used the Daily Bugle whenever he needed a paper mentioned, but for some reason he made up a new paper in this issue for the Avengers to provide the exclusive.

In this issue:

Giant-Man is alerted by his ants to the fact that the Mole Man is up to something. He tries to engage the Avengers on this potential plot by the Mole Man, and to have them investigate, but they brush him off. And so he investigates on his own, going underground and being captured by the Mole Man and his followers. And then Mole Man’s plan is revealed - he is speeding up the Earth’s rotation, and people around the world start to feel it. The Avengers feel badly for blowing off Giant-Man, and they go to rescue him. A furious battle ensues underground, although the Mole Man and his crew escape. The Mole Man teams up with another Fantastic Four antagonist, the Red Ghost, and they battle the Avengers together. The Avengers ultimately defeat the terrible twosome and their followers, and stop the Earth from seeing up its rotation, and their heroism is reported in the Daily Standard.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are dealing with the fallout of the Earth briefly speeding up its rotation, which caused untold devastation and potentially longterm problems.

This episode takes place:

After the Daily Standard has reported this adventure on its front pages.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss both the reveal that Tony Stark is still alive, and his subsequent assassination from a space laser. Tony’s will leaves all his assets to Iron Man, which puts the suspicion for the laser attack squarely on the Avenger’s head (at least in terms of motive), but the show summarizes the motives of other potential assassins (there are many!) Maybe more importantly, who has the ability to kill from a distance like this, and who will they target next? Are all of our best scientists at risk? Is solving this attack Reed Richard’s number one priority? If not, why not?

Behind the comic:

Stan attempts to pull off pathos in this issue and the panels spend some time with people like Happy Hogan, who is broken up by Tony’s apparent death. Meanwhile, Stan lets the implications of these events sit for a while. The issue ends with Iron Man being a captive of the Mandarin, and the next issue is the full origin of the villain - which means that Tony Stark “stays dead” for a full two months in the comic continuity, before returning from the dead in early March.

In this issue:

Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan announce they are quitting and are unhappy that Tony Stark is missing and Iron Man has basically taken over the company. They speak to the police about the matter, and the newspapers find out about it, finally noticing that Tony Stark is missing and that Iron Man is now a suspect in his disappearance. Tony Stark, who is actually Iron Man, decides to deal with the situation. He decides the best way to do that is to appear to Happy as a sick Tony Stark who explains that Iron Man is in charge of the company on his behalf. Happy then supports the perspective that everything is legitimate. Meanwhile, the Mandarin uses a killer ray to attack the Earth. Specifically, to attack Iron Man, who escapes, although the news report that Tony’s home has been struck by a deadly ray of unknown origin. Tony Stark’s closest friends realize that and accept that Tony Stark is dead and Iron Man has taken over the company. Meanwhile, Iron Man fights the Mandarin and ends up being captured. The episode ends on a cliffhanger.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are dumping StarkCorp stock.

This episode takes place:

After people find out that Tony Stark was killed by a fricking space laser.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the X-Men’s release of photos and power descriptions of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (Magneto, Toad, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Mastermind). Why were these details released now? Was the motivation related to the recent anti-mutant feelings of the public? Or was it just about providing information so we can all protect ourselves? Also: Why were Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver meeting with the Fantastic Four?

Behind the comic:

From their first introduction, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were presented as complicated and reluctant villains. Scarlet Witch believed that she owed a debt to Magneto, and Quicksilver’s motivation was just to protect his sister. This was the first issue where that motivation is explored outside the X-Men series. The two villains attempt to give up their life of crime, but when they are attacked anyway by the Thing and the Human Torch, they abandon their plan and head back to Magneto. We are not aware if Stan Lee was already planning for the duo to switch sides and join the Avengers (less than 6 months away), but either way this is a nice example of long-term foreshadowing.

In this issue:

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch decide to leave Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. They decide to meet with the Fantasic Four to see if they can advise them on how to make the transition to the side of the heroes. At the same time, the X-Men have released photos and details about the Brotherhood, including those of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. As a result, when the reluctant villains and aspiring heroes show up at the Fantasic Four’s headquarters, the Thing and the Human Torch are already primed to think that they are there with ill intent. They battle and, at the end of it, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch decide to return to Magneto, feeling that they are safer with him.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are confused as to what Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are planning.

This episode takes place:

After Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch‘s near transition to the heroes’ side.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the current situation with Tony Stark and Iron Man. Tony has been missing for over a month, and Iron Man is still in charge of Stark Enterprises, but the walls are closing in. Tony’s top lieutenants have quit the company, Iron Man is under a grand jury investigation, and Iron Man has also been suspended from the Avengers. Also: Why won’t the Avengers comment on the situation? When asked, Thor just went into a rant about how he was stronger than the Hulk. Is that is what is important right now?

Behind the comics:

Many of the comics in this era are in-universe responses to letters sent into Marvel. One of the common questions at the time was “who is stronger, Thor or Hulk?” Stan’s response was this issue, in which Thor tells the “previously untold story” of his battle with the Hulk in Avengers #3.

In These Issues:

Tales of Suspense #61

Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan announce they are quitting and are unhappy that Tony Stark is missing and Iron Man has basically taken over the company. They speak to the police about the matter, and the newspapers find out about it, finally noticing that Tony Stark is missing and that Iron Man is now a suspect in his disappearance. Tony Stark, who is actually Iron Man, decides to deal with the situation. He decides the best way to do that is to appear to Happy as a sick Tony Stark who explains that Iron Man is in charge of the company on his behalf. Happy then supports the perspective that everything is legitimate. Meanwhile, the Mandarin uses a killer ray to attack the Earth. Specifically, to attack Iron Man, who escapes, although the news report that Tony’s home has been struck by a deadly ray of unknown origin. Tony Stark’s closest friends realize that and accept that Tony Stark is dead and Iron Man has taken over the company. Meanwhile, Iron Man fights the Mandarin and ends up being captured. The episode ends on a cliffhanger.

Journey into Mystery #112

People in the streets are debating whether Thor or the Hulk is stronger. Thor descends into the crowd and explains that he had a secret battle with the Hulk and after a pitched battle, the Hulk disappeared. He seems unable to honestly answer whether he was stronger then the Hulk.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are dumping StarkCorp stock.

This episode takes place:

Before the world thinks Tony is deceased.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the decision of Gregory Gideon (the richest man in the world) to donate all of his assets and holdings to charity. In a “normal” world, we would expect his heirs to question the decision and ask if he was being manipulated or going senile. In this new world of superpowers that we live in, shouldn’t someone be asking if he is being mind-controlled? Also: Reed Richards was mistaken for a Skrull and the Matador is NOT Daredevil. Who can we trust? What is the truth? Who decides?

In these issues:

Fantastic Four #34

Gregory Gideon, one of the richest man in the world, decides to take defeat the Fantastic Four, as he appears to be bored with every other challenge. He sets up complicated scheme to turn the Fantastic Four against each other. While his plan is in motion, we are introduced to his son Thomas, whom he appears to actually love. In any event, Gideon manipulates the team to the point that they knock each other out. His son Thomas overhears the rest of his father’s plan to destroy the Fantastic Four, causing him to race over to warn them of the final stroke of the plan. Thomas is caught in the crossfire, which causes Gideon to realize the error of his ways. In penance, he renounces his fortune, turning over all of his wealth over to charity.

Daredevil #5 Part 2

The criminal Matador embarks on a crime spree in New York City. Daredevil takes it upon himself to track down the criminal. They fight, and the Matador comes out on top. The public venerates the Matador over Daredevil, even though he is clearly a criminal. In an attempt to bring him down, Matt Murdock, who is secretly Daredevil, announces that he is in fact the Matador. This leads to the Matador tracking down Matt, and meeting up with Daredevil. They fight, and Daredevil comes out on top.

Assumed before the next issues:

The public is questioning the business decisions of corporate titans, wondering who may be pulling their strings.

This episode takes place:

After Gideon announces that he is donating all of his money to charity, and just before he meets the consequences of his monumental decision.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Giant-Man’s exclusive interview with the Daily Bugle. What did the Bugle have to agree to in order to get the exclusive? Were there questions that were not asked? Or did Giant-Man choose to give the paper an exclusive because of their historically heavy superhero coverage? Also: What was the cause of the giant plant that almost destroyed the entire city? Is there going to be an investigation so that we can be assured it will not happen again? Or do we just count on Giant-Man to rip it out from the taproot each time it happens?

Behind the comic:

The Daily Bugle’s first appearance was in Marvel Mystery Comics #18 in 1941. In the Marvel Silver Age, the paper was first mentioned in Fantastic Four #2, but it quickly became central to the Spider-Man storylines. This issue was an uncommon example of the paper taking a more (somewhat) significant role in a non-Spider-Man issue, but mostly the paper is used as the generic “newspaper” anytime a paper or a reporter is needed in any New York-based story.

In this issue:

A criminal steals Giant-Man’s costume and technology and uses them to commit crimes. At the same time, Hank Pym has created a serum that is causing plans to grow out of control, creating a massive public safety issue. Fortunately, Giant-Man is able to steal his costume back and fix the plant problem.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are more wary of giant plants.

This episode takes place:

After Giant-Man has fixed the problem that he created.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss what drives superheroes. Why is Daredevil, a man without any superpowers, out there risking his life every day? Does he have a psychological problem? Is the claim that Daredevil is also the Matador legitimate? Does it just means he wants to be famous by being flashy on either side of the law? And how does this all relate to Spider-Man’s return to popularity?

Behind the issues:

The Spider-Man issue wraps up the “Spider-Man is a coward” 3-issue thread. Meanwhile in Daredevil, the first four issues of the series were drawn by a mix of different artists. Daredevil #5 marks the beginning of the “permanent” art of Wallace Wood. Daredevil’s costume is superficially the same (still the yellow-and-black), but Wallace is not afraid to make some small changes (with no in-world explanation for those changes). Wallace will soon go on to make more substantial changes, including the famous red costume in issue #7, but this is the issue where he starts testing the waters to see what he can get away with.

In these issues:

Amazing Spider-Man #19

The Daily Bugle says that Spider-Man is washed up, but he’s not. He’s out fighting crime in dynamic fashion. Meanwhile, the Human Torch is overwhelmed by Sandman and the Enforcers. Spider-Man then battles this gang of thugs but their fight is broken up when the police arrive. Eventually, Spider-Man tracks down the criminals and fights them again, freeing the Human Torch and defeating the gang.

Daredevil #5

The criminal Matador embarks on a crime spree in New York City. Daredevil takes it upon himself to track down the criminal. They fight, and the matador comes out on top. The public venerates the Matador over Daredevil even though he is clearly a criminal. In an attempt to bring him down, Matt Murdock, who is secretly Daredevil, announces that he is in fact the Matador. This leads to the Matador tracking down Matt, and meeting up with Daredevil. They fight, and Daredevil comes out on top.

Assumed before the next issues:

The public is wondering if there were wrong about Spider-Man and Daredevil and should in fact grateful to the two heroes.

This episode takes place:

After public sentiment seems to have turned in favor of Spider-Man and Daredevil. Before Daredevil’s battle with the Matador.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the police decision to declare Tony Stark missing and Iron Man as a suspect. Did Iron Man kill Tony Stark? Why is Iron Man still in charge of StarkCorp. while he is under investigation? Why hasn’t the board of directors already acted, and how will they respond when they do? Is this the most exciting story since the founding of the Fantastic Four? Also: Pepper Potts, Tony Stark’s secretary, has been kidnapped by a masked villain using a bow and specialty explosive arrows. Is it all related as part of a conspiracy? Or is it just a distraction from the bigger issue of Mr. Stark’s disappearance?

Behind the comic:

Most Marvel comics at this time were monthly, in theory (X-Men was bi-monthly). But in practice the comics came out whenever the artists completed their work. This meant that Spider-Man comics were often delayed (Ditko started delivering in a more timely manner in 1965), it also meant that some of the storylines got a little mixed up. There WERE a number of issues released between Tales of Suspense #59 and #60 (Tales to Astonish #61, Fantastic Four #33, Journey Into Mystery #11, and Strange Tales #127) but, coincidentally, none of those issues had any publicly visible events. So from a Super Serious perspective it means Part 2 of this Iron Man drama follows immediately after Part 1. In the real world Part 3 does not come out until January 1965, but from a comic book continuity perspective it happens BEFORE Avengers #11 (which was on newsstands the same day as this issue), so we will cover in our next episode.

In this issue:

Tony Stark is frustrated because he feels he needs to wear his armour all the time, lest his fragile heart stop. This means as well that he has to remain Iron Man at all times and tell his closest friends that Tony Stark is away on a secret business matter. His friends call the police, who interrogate Iron Man, who draws suspicion and flees under a hail of bullets from the cops. Meanwhile, Hawkeye is convinced by the Black Widow to raid StarkCorp.‘s factory to steal plans for its newest weapons. Hawkeye kidnaps Tony Starks’s assistant Pepper Potts. This draws Iron Man back to rescue Pepper, whereupon he battles Hawkeye, chasing him off.

Assumed before the next episode:

StarkCorp.’s share price keeps going up and down on the uncertainties involving its founder and Iron Man.

This episode takes place:

After Pepper Potts has been rescued.

In This Episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Tony Stark’s donation of his giant Upper East Side Mansion to the Avengers. Was the mansion donated directly from his personal wealth, or was it done through StarkCorp? What was Tony’s motivation? Is it related to his recent decision to turn StarkCorp temporarily over to Iron Man? Is is suspicious that Iron Man has taken control of Stark Corp within days of also taking possession of one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in New York? Also: Why did the mafia choose this moment to attempt an Avengers Mansion home invasion?

Behind the Issue:

This issue marks the first modern stand-alone Captain America story. Going forward Tales of Suspense is splitting its storytelling between Iron Man and Captain America (just as Tales to Astonish has split between Giant Man/Wasp and the Hulk). At this point in Marvel’s history every Avenger has their own stand-alone (or shared stand-alone) title.

In This Comic

Coming Soon! Check out the post online.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the revelation that Tony Stark has put Iron Man in (temporary) charge of StarkCorp. Can someone with a secret identity be a corporate officer of a publicly traded corporation? (No.) Can a CEO unilaterally declare a temporary new temporary CEO without first speaking to his board of directors? (No.) Is Tony Stark doing both of those things anyway? (Yes.) Super Serious is here to explain the rules of corporate governance and why Tony Stark believes rules do not apply to him.

Behind the comic:

This may be the first three-part story told by Marvel Comics. It starts here and continues into Tales of Suspense 60 and 61. The idea of Iron Man becoming the CEO of StarkCorp because Tony is not able to remove the armor and living is a great premise that Stan Lee milks for all it is worth (and raises the stakes! Just wait until next issue!)

In This Issue:

The Black Knight’s flying horse helps free him from prison. Meanwhile, Tony Stark suffers from a medical emergency. His armour is the only thing that can save him, and so he puts it on. He then battles the Black Knight as Iron Man. After the battle, Tony is worried that he will not survive if he takes his armor off. He decides to stay in his armor and, as Iron Man, tells his two most trusted employees that “Mr. Stark” will be out of town for a while and has left “him”, Iron Man, in charge of the company.

Assumed before the next episode:

StarkCorp stock likely drops.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man starts his sort of take over of StarkCorp.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the claim that Spider-Man is a coward. The hero clearly ran from at least two fights (with the Green Goblin and later with Sandman). Does that make him a coward, or just concerned for his own safety? What makes someone a coward? Even if Spider-Man is not a coward, if he is now afraid to engage with supervillains, is he just in the wrong line of work? If you are afraid of driving fast, that is okay, but maybe do not chose to become a race car driver …

Behind the comic:

Most of the issues in this time period - across all the titles - are standalone. The hero ends each issue in a very similar place to where he started. This issue is different. In Spider-Man #17, Peter ran away from the Green Goblin because he had to help his aunt. This issue builds on those events. Peter is now worried that he should not be Spider-Man because if something happens to him, his aunt will have no one to care for her. These dilemmas that Stan thrusts on Peter are what make the early Spider-Man titles stand apart from so many of the other titles at the time. Peter’s issues continue into Spider-Man #19.

In this issue:

The Daily Bugle publishes a story on how Spider-Man is a coward, and the world at large appears to believe it. J. Jonah Jameson is really playing up the story, and Spider-Man’s reputation is really quite damaged. Peter struggles with what he should do, staying on the sidelines while his aunt is ill. She eventually recovers, and Peter decides that he can return to his duties as Spider-Man.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if they are being a little hard on Spider-Man. I hope.

This episode takes place:

While Spider-Man is considered to be a coward.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss an ad that has been appearing in the back of comics and magazines that promises to provide customers with superpowers. Are we finally seeing mass-produced superpowers? Is this organization being run by the government? Will getting powers be dangerous? Or is it all a scam or a prank?

Behind the comic:

This is the first appearance of Immortus. Immortus is later retconned into being a future version of Kang the Conqueror, but in this appearance he is a standalone character with no connection to Kang.

In this issue:

Rick Jones responds to an ad which promises to give him superpowers. It is a ruse by Immortus, who is working with Baron Zemo and the Masters of Evil, to bait the Avengers into a fight. The Avengers oblige, and Immortus, as a master of time, bring various historical figures to the present to fight the Avengers. Ultimately, the Avengers prove their mettle and defeat Immortus and his motley crew drawn from the far reaches of time. This issue also includes a classic “heroes fighting due to a misunderstanding”, and demonstrates the might of Captain America.

Assumed before the next episode:

The Avengers are wondering how to protect themselves against someone who can travel through time.

This episode takes place:

After the Avengers have defeated Immortus.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the recent attack on “The Beast” of the X-Men. Beast was attacked not for what he was doing, but for who he is: a mutant. Why are people anti-mutant? How are mutants different from other people with superpowers? What is driving this hysteria? Is there any logic to the prejudice? How should the broader super-human community respond?

Behind the comic:

Until X-Men #8, the X-Men were not very different from the Avengers. They were younger and in school, but both teams worked for the government and fought bad guys and monsters. The X-Men’s villains were more likely to be mutants, but that was just the use of a different rogues gallery. That all changed with X-Men #8, when Stan Lee started with the idea that mutants themselves were “hated and feared”. This idea gains steam over the coming months (Sentinels are introduced in X-Men #14), but this was where it all started!

In this issue:

Hank “the Beast” McCoy rescues a child in front of panicked onlookers, following which the crowd attacks him. They identify him as a mutant, whom they apparently hate. Hank is obviously upset, and wonders in anger whether Magneto isn’t right. He leaves the team and becomes a professional wrestler, where he meets a fellow mutant, Unus the Untouchable. After the match, Unus meets with Mastermind to see if Magneto will let him join the Brotherhood, but he gives him another test, which is to defeat a member of the X-Men in combat. And so Unus joins in on a bank robbery, hoping this will lead to a battle with the X-Men. Which it does, although the results are inconclusive, and Unus gets away. When they meet again, Hank shoots him with an energy gun which augments his power, creating a King Midas type scenario, Unus being unable to touch anything. Hank thereafter powers Unus down, having promised him to quit trying to join Magneto and his Brotherhood, and to stop acting supervillainy.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are becoming more intolerant towards mutants, which is sad.

This episode takes place:

After Unus has been defeated… for now.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Cobra and Mr. Hyde being released on their own recognizance due to an anonymous individual posting their $500,000.00 bail. Should super-criminals be released on bail of ANY amount? What is the responsibility of the bail poster now that both suspects have immediately returned to a life of crime by kidnapping a woman and getting into a confrontation with Thor? Also: Mike explains to Ed how bounty hunters work.

Behind the comic:

Long before Superman turned back time in his feature film, Stan Lee was arbitrarily adding powers to his superheroes whenever he needed to. In this issue (and the next), Thor gains the power to stop time by creating a swirling whirlwind vortex. That time-stoppage allows Jane Foster to stay alive in a state of suspended animation while Thor battles Hyde and Cobra. His effort in defeating those villains creates the goodwill that inspires Odin to give Jane the magical antidote to her poisoning. Eventually the power sets of these heroes become more defined and writers work around those limitations, but in this early stage of the Marvel Universe, all of that is still being figured out.

In this issue:

Loki disguises himself as a well dressed man, and posts bail for the supervillains Cobra and Mr. Hyde. Once out of jail, Loki explains to this dastardly duo that he is Loki, an Asgardian god, and that he wants them to kidnap Jane Foster. He powers them up and sends them on their way. They kidnap Jane, and Thor is made to look like a coward in front of his father Odin, who banishes him from Asgard as a result (all a part of Loki’s plan). Thor battles through Asgard to meet with his father Odin to beg his forgiveness, which Odin does not really give, and then returns to Earth to battle Cobra and Hyde. Jane is injured during the fight, and Thor saves her life by suspending time around her.

Assumed before the next episode:

Thor is working out his father issues, I think.

This episode takes place:

While time is suspended around an injured Jane.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the true identity of the Invincible Man. Behind his mask, he was apparently Franklin Richards, father of Sue and Johnny Storm. But that identity was also fake, and behind the second mask he was the Super Skrull (which explains his duplicated Fantastic Four powers). The bigger topic of discussion is how Reed Richards obtained the ability to wipe out the entire Skrull race. He did not commit genocide, but he could have, and he threatened to do so. Does this ability make us safer, or less safe? Does it matter that it is in the hands of a private citizen instead of the Presidents of Russia and America? Was Dr. Strangelove a documentary!?!

Behind the comic:

The potential genocide we dive into in the episode is almost an aside in this issue, and as far as we are aware the capabilities are addressed in the comics again. Instead, this issue is important in Marvel continuity for providing background on the parents of Sue and Johnny. Their father was just introduced, but he dies here a “hero” - sacrificing himself to prevent a Skrull sneak attack.

In this issue:

An alien arrives on earth and assumes the form of Franklin Storm, thereafter sending Dr. Storm to another galaxy. “Dr. Storm” escapes prison as the Invincible Man, using the same powers of the Fantastic Four. He thereafter threatens the world while dressed in a bizarre costume and calling himself the Invincible Man. The Fantastic Four battle him to a standstill. The world turns on the Four, assuming they took it easy on the villain. On their second battle, Reed reveals that he knows the truth and, once he is confronted, the Invincible Man reveals his true identity, the Super Skrull. Reed threatens the Skrull home world with nuclear genocide if the real Dr. Storm is not returned to Earth. The Skrulls agree to this condition, and return Dr. Storm, although he is boobytrapped with a bomb that kills him upon his return to Earth. Dr. Storm dies a hero, or at least not as a villain.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why the Skrulls’ plan was so complicated.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four have defeated the Skrulls.

Programing Note:

Both hosts will be traveling this summer and we realized we may not be able to record new episodes for a period of two months. In order to keep a regular cadence, we are going to pre-record as much as we can in May, and then drip them to you at a rate of one per week. We hope to pick up the pace again sometime in August or September. In the meantime we hope you will be able to “savor” the episodes on this slower cadence. We have also invested in improved post-production editing. Maybe you noticed a difference in the last half dozen episodes?

In This Episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Purple Man, a villain who admits to having the ability to compel people to follow his every verbal command. What is the difference between persuasion and compulsion? Are they different in kind, like running vs flying, or just degree, like running vs running super fast? If someone is persuaded to do something illegal they are criminally responsible for the act, but what if they are compelled? If someone can resist being compelled, are those who fail to resist liable? Where does one draw the line? Can a line be drawn at all? Also: Is the US military secretly experimenting on mind control chemicals? Have I persuaded you to listen to this episode yet?

Behind the Comic:

This is the first appearance of the Purple Man, who in modern comics becomes a very dangerous, disturbing villain. He is most famous for taking Jessica Jones hostage and under his control for months. The after-effects of that mind-kidnapping were explored both in the comics (Alias #24) and the first season of Jessica Jones (originally on Netflix, now available on Disney+)

In This Issue:

(Not ready at time of publication. Will be updated soon!)

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Giant-Man’s covert operation in East Berlin. He rescued a suspected American spy and busted through the Berlin Wall. Now that it is clear he is working directly for the CIA, how does that affect how the Avengers will work with foreign governments? If they get in disputes, will they be treated as spies? Will this make defending the Earth more difficult? Also: Why did Giant-Man threaten violence to his fan club?

Behind the issue:

Since Stan Lee was writing every series at this point, he began having the Avengers guest-star in more and more of the non-Avengers titles. The perception is that the five Avengers basically spend all their time on Avenger’s business. In this case, the Avengers were asked to save the American spy, and Giant-Man was the individual who was sent on the mission. At the time, new issues came out as the artists completed the work, which sometimes made it difficult for Stan to keep the different storylines coherent (something similar is happening with the Marvel Cinematic Universe right now. Spider-Man: No Way Home was meant to come out AFTER Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. The multiverse elements of Spider-Man were supposed to follow what was kicked off in the Dr. Strange movie. When the release dates were switched, the storylines needed to be changed to make sense. This may be why Stan changed the Avengers line-up in Avengers #16. Coming soon!)

In this issue:

Giant-Man breaks up his own fan club meeting. He’s in a bad mood because he is stressed about his friend Lee Kearns, who has been captured in East Berlin. He decides to fly to Europe and liberate his friend. He sneaks into East Berlin, breaks his friend out of his cell, and fights a bunch of hyper-intelligent gorillas that the Soviets have at the prison. He ends up busting down part of the Berlin Wall, ferrying his friend to freedom.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are worried that an Avenger may have started WWIII.

This episode takes place:

After Giant-Man has broken his friend out of East Berlin.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Kraven and the Chameleon sneaking back into America. How porous are our borders? Iron Man captured Kraven, but was then tricked by the Chameleon. Given that the two criminals are known associates, shouldn’t the capture of Kraven have led the superhero community to be on the lookout for impersonators? Why wasn’t Iron Man suspicious when “Captain America” started acting strangely? And shouldn’t the Avengers have files on every known super-criminal? There are not that many of them!

Behind the issue:

This issue guest stars Captain America. It seems it was a “test run”, as starting in issue #59 the book gets split into two shorter stories, one continuing Iron Man’s adventures and the other featuring Captain America. Within a few months, every Marvel hero is going to have their own title, or split a title with another hero (Tales to Astonish featuring Giant-Man and the Wasp will add a Hulk feature. Amazing Tales starring the Human Torch will add the Thing, with an additional regular feature with Dr. Strange).

In this issue:

Kraven the Hunter and the Chameleon are smuggled back into the U.S. Almost immediately, Kraven is captured by Iron Man, as the entry point for them was a Stark Corp. factory. What terrible luck for Kraven. Thereafter, Captain America tells Iron Man about his battle with the Chameleon and how he barely escaped. But it turns out it was the Chameleon disguised as Captain America. Iron Man was fooled, and he goes after the real Cap and fights him. They eventually figure out the truth, while the Chameleon is captured by Giant-Man and the Wasp.

Assumed before the next episode:

The Avengers likely start seriously thinking about their security set up - and whether they should learn each others’ secret identities.

This episode takes place:

After the Chameleon has been captured.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the creation, and dissolution, of the Spider-Man fan club. What types of risks are teenagers taking on by joining a superhero fan club? How often will these fan clubs be targeted by supervillains? Does the hero showing up at a meeting protect the club from attacks, or act as a magnet that makes the attacks happen to begin with? Also: Is the Human Torch a fan of Spider-Man, or did he just show up to protect the club members because he knew that Spider-Man wouldn’t? And why is Spider-Man so afraid of the Green Goblin?

Behind the comic:

This issue ends with Spider-Man running away from the Green Goblin so that he can save his Aunt May. Since no one else knows the reason, this makes the public think that Spider-Man is a coward. Most of the issues at this time “reset” things by the end of the issue so that things go back to the status quo the next issue. But in this case, Stan Lee carries over the “people think Spider-Man is a coward” bit into issue #18. It is another example of Peter Parker not getting any breaks.

In this issue:

Flash Thompson has started a Spider-Man fan club. Ironically, Flash is rude to Spider-Man when he is in his secret identity, Peter Parker. In any event, Spider-Man interrupts a movie shoot, thinking that he was stopping a crime, which does not win him any fans. Other than in his new fan club, which Spider-Man attends in an effort to dazzle and impress. The Green Goblin shows up at the fan club and attacks Spider-Man, putting everyone at risk. The Human Torch joins the fray. Mid-fight, Spider-Man overhears that his Aunt May is in the hospital after a heart attack, which causes him to race away, leaving the Human Torch to fight the Green Goblin on his own. Everyone but Flash Thompson thinks that Spider-Man is a coward.

Assumed before the next episode:

People think that Spider-Man is a no good coward. We know they could not be more wrong, but what can you do?

This episode takes place:

After the Human Torch has chased the Green Goblin away.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the death of Wonder Man. He joined the Avengers and died before his joining was even announced. It is hard to mourn someone you never knew, but his death leads to many questions about how things are handled for superheroes with secret identities. Is the government involved in creating a cover story for a civilian identity? Is StarkCorp? Who is told about the identity before death? What processes kick into place when the death happens? Have these things been planned for, or are the Avengers operating off the seat of their pants? Will they be better prepared when the next hero dies?

Behind the comic:

This is the first appearance of Wonder Man. He is introduced as a villain, but dies a hero. It is later revealed that his brain waves were saved and he is brought back to life (multiple times) in different artificial bodies, eventually becoming a hero and member of the West Coast Avengers in the 1980s. He may also be the only hero whose opposite sex version is owned by a different company. All the Bat-heroes are DC. All the Spider-heroes are Marvel. But the Wonder-heroes are split between the two companies. Wonder Man and Wonder Woman may never meet…

In this issue:

Simon Williams is arrested for embezzlement - and blames Tony Stark. Seemingly for this sole reason, the Masters of Evil decide that Simon will make for the perfect pawn in their fight against the Avengers. They experiment on him, granting him amazing powers. He is named Wonder Man and dispatched to integrate into the Avengers, which he does by joining a staged fight with the Masters of Evil. Wonder Man is admitted to the Avengers, and they treat him as one of their own. The team then fights the Masters of Evil again, and Wonder Man shows his true colours by fighting the Avengers. He eventually flips back and joins the Avengers, helping save them from the Masters of Evil, although he is killed in the process.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how rigorous the Avengers admission process truly is.

This episode takes place:

After Wonder Man develops his strange powers, joins the Avengers, betrays the Avengers, rejoins the Avengers, and dies.

In This Episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the new super villainous team the Sinister Six. How did Spider-man manage to defeat six arch-nemesises at the same time? First heroes joined together for mutual protection, now more and more villains are doing the same. Do the heroes need to step up their game to be one step ahead? Why are is the Fantastic Four still communicating through sky writing? And why does anyone need to take an ad out in a newspaper to get in touch with a super hero?

Behind the Comic

This was the first giant-sized annual for Spider-man and Lee decided to go all out. It was the first appearance of the Sinister Six, but the issue also had cameos from Dr Strange, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four and the X-men - along with plugs for their respective titles. It was superhero tale as blatant cross-promotion. The end of the issue was filler art - pin ups of Spider-man, how his powers worked, and a page each to every villain he fought in his history - starting with “Burglar”.

In This Issue

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the World Fair. Yes, it had an exhibit on superheroes, but why wasn’t there an exhibit on alien races? Or undersea civilizations? Or underground civilizations? Or other dimensions? Why weren’t there demonstrations of the FantasticCar or Iron Man-type armor? It seems like a missed opportunity. Also: Why was Daredevil in the superhero exhibit? Can anyone get a statue as long as they put on a mask and punch people?

Behind the comic:

The World Fair was a big deal in 1964, and Stan Lee used it as the backdrop in a number of issues around this time. The main plot line of this issue (which is not discussed in the episode) was the battle between Thor and Magneto. It is interesting that while every hero has their own rogues gallery of villains, Lee does not hesitate to, every once and a while, cross villains. Dr. Doom (FF villain) fought Spider-Man. Loki (Thor) battled Dr. Strange. And Electro (Spider-Man) battled Daredevil. Magneto is a little different, in that his rivalry with the X-Men was almost absolute. There are only a handful of the early issues where he does not appear. He barely has time to do battle with anyone else. This is the first time he does (and even here, the entire X-Men team make a guest appearance).

In this issue:

the World Fair is on, and they have an exhibit displaying a good number of American superheroes. Meanwhile, Magneto sends his minions to find the X-Men while he decides to test his mettle on New York City. Thor leaps into action after witnessing the mayhem created by Magneto using his powers to lift cars in the air, among other things. Thor battles Magneto, who fails to turn him to his cause, and yet Magneto is able to get away.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why the World Fair does not have exhibits on aliens, gods, or monsters.

This episode takes place:

After Thor defeats Magneto.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of the Mole Man. Reed Richards was NOT lying to us, but he WAS a little incompetent, trying to seal the underground-man underground… Didn’t work so well now did it, Reed? During the encounter, the Avengers and the Fantastic Four got in a dispute that led to a physical confrontation. Mike and Ed discuss both the legal and moral implications of heroes settling their disputes with fisticuffs. Also: Should we negotiate with super-terrorists?

Behind the comic:

Sue is taken hostage… again… It is a trope now that when heroes first meet, they fight before they settle their differences and team up. But back in the early 60s the tropes did not yet exist - Lee and Kirby were making things up as they went along. Any kid who read superhero comics wants to know things like, “who is stronger, the Thing or the Hulk?” and “Who would win in a fight, Spider-Man or Superman?” These comics set things up to help answer those questions. It had been done before and it will happen again, but the mass audience does not seem to be tired of it (it was repeated again in the first Avengers film).

In this issue:

Earthquakes plague New York City, and the Fantastic Four are drawn to investigate. They discover that their original nemesis, the Mole Man, is back, and he is the cause of the earthquakes. The Mole Man kidnaps entire city blocks, and ensnares Sue “Invisible Girl” Storm. The remaining members of the team attempt to rescue Sue, but are defeated. The Mole Man informs them that if they try to attack again, Sue will pay the price. The three return to the surface, and the Avengers then arrive. The Avengers refuse to listen to Reed Richards and head off to fight the Mole Man. The remaining members of the Fantastic Four are forced to fight the Avengers to prevent them from antagonizing the Mole Man, for fear he will kill Sue. Calmer heads prevail, and Reed then has time to cobble together devices that they will need to fight the Mole Man, which they do. Unfortunately, Sue sustains a head injury in the fight, and the only person who can save her is her disgraced surgeon father, who recently escaped from prison. He performs the operation and saves his daughter, but at the cost of his freedom.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if now is the time to leave New York City, rather than stick around and see if their city block will be dragged below the surface of the Earth.

This episode takes place:

After the Mole Man has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the detonation of a nuclear bomb on American soil. The bomb was meant to be used against the Hulk. Is that an acceptable use? Will this lower the taboo on the use of nuclear weapons? Is the Hulk more of a threat than a nuclear winter? What about other existential threats? Also: What type of jail could hold the Hulk? And why is the answer inter-dimensional?

Behind the comic:

At this point in Marvel history, Stan Lee is using the Hulk increasingly as a supporting character. The Hulk’s own title failed, but he is becoming a draw when paired with other heroes. In a few months, Lee will add the Hulk as a regular second feature in Tales to Astonish. This issue was (we think) a trial run.

In this issue:

Davy “The Human Top” Cannon conspires to take his nemesis Giant-Man down. Meanwhile, Giant-Man and the Wasp head to New Mexico in an effort to track and take down the Hulk. The Human Top tracks the Hulk down first and warns him that Giant-Man is on the way. The Hulk and Giant-Man then meet up and fight. The Army launches an atomic missile at the Hulk. The Wasp warns Giant-Man of the incoming missile, who informs the Hulk about it. The Hulk heroically intercepts the missile.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether the Hulk survived an atomic weapon, and what that could mean.

This episode takes place:

After Giant-Man’s battle with the Hulk.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Spider-Man’s charitable work. His first charitable event turns out to be a front for organized crime. Was that coincidence? Bad luck? Or was Spider-Man working undercover from the beginning? To avoid these situations, should Spider-Man only work for well-established charities? Would that just mean the large charities get larger, and the small innovative ones are shut out? There are no easy answers, but that does not stop our hosts from asking questions!

Behind the comic:

The first Daredevil crossover and the first time he interacts with Spider-Man! Unfortunately, everything Daredevil does in this issue is unseen by the audience (who are in a trance), so he gets no credit in our episode. Also notable, this is the second appearance of the Ringmaster and the Circus of Crime. They first appeared in the Hulk, where it appeared that they were captured and detained by the authorities. Stan Lee does not even bother explaining why they are back in action and fully united. Maybe he was tired of always providing two pages of “criminal escapes from prison” before he bringing back an old villain.

In this issue:

Spider-Man rescues Matt Murdock from street thugs, not realizing that Matt is actually the costumed vigilante Daredevil. That evening, Matt and his co-workers Foggy Nelson and Karen Page go to the circus, not realizing it is the criminal mastermind the Ringmaster’s Circus of Crime. The Ringmaster advertises that Spider-Man will be appearing at the circus that night. This is a lie designed to get more people to attend the circus so that the Ringmaster and his thugs can rob them while they are hypnotized by the Ringmaster. Spider-Man, seeing the ad, decides to attend, as it looks suspicious. At the circus, Spider-Man and the crowd are hypnotized. Matt Murdock is not hypnotized, as it is apparently a visual hypnosis, and Matt is blind, such that it does not work on him. He changes into his Daredevil costume and fights a hypnotized Spider-Man, ultimately breaking him out of his hypnotic trance. The duo then take down the Ringmaster and his gang.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to wonder about superhero advertising.

This episode takes place:

After the Ringmaster has been taken down.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the largest fraud every committed: Diablo has conned people, businesses and governments around the world with his phony potions and technology. Now that he has been entombed in his castle in Transylvania, how will the victims of his fraud be made whole from what was stolen from them? Mike believes the answer is lawsuits, but given the scale of the fraud, how long will that take? And who are we suing when the criminal is an immortal hidden away in an isolated castle? Do we even know where the money is being kept?

Behind the comic:

This issue introduces Diablo, who seemed to be inspired by Dracula. But in later continuity, Dracula himself becomes a Marvel character and Diablo builds out his own villainous niche. The issue ends with Diablo being trapped “forever” in his castle, but he ends up being freed by Dr. Doom within four months (just in time for Reed and Sue’s wedding). But that is a story for another episode…

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four decide to go on vacation in Transylvania, traveling in their superhero costumes and somehow becoming lost in the mountains. They stumble across a mysterious castle, and despite being warned by the local mayor that they should not enter this castle which, according to legend, has been the prison of the evil alchemist Diablo for the past 100 years, they decide to waltz in and spend the night. The Thing is bewitched by Diablo in the middle of the night and frees the dreaded immortal sorcerer Diablo, who then becomes the world’s richest person from the sales of miraculous cures, potions, and the like. Reed Richards figures out that Diablo’s miracles are really fakes and frauds, but it is too late for the many victims around the world who fell for Diablo’s worldwide scam. The world declares Diablo public enemy #1, leading armies and also the Fantastic Four to attack Diablo in his stronghold. After a fierce fight, the Fantastic Four is able to take Diablo down and trap him in his castle once more.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are wondering which class action to join in an attempt to get their money back.

This episode takes place:

After Diablo has been defeated… for now.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss workplace safety issues at StarkCorp. A man was saved by Iron Man, but is that an acceptable solution? Iron Man can’t be standing on duty at every plant. Using superheroes as safety supervisors seems like negligence combined with “putting a patch on it”. Too often it seems that the world’s problems are being “patched” by superheroes. We need to solve the root causes.

Behind the comic:

This is Hawkeye’s first appearance, in which he is billed as an “archvillain”, although his only public role is limited to a heist of a jewelry store, which is not commented on in the episode. What is interesting is that he is working with (being manipulated by?) the Black Widow, with whom he is smitten. How much of their partnership in the MCU is based on this first appearance in which they are “partners”?

In this issue:

Iron Man saves a Stark Corp. worker from a workplace accident. After doing that, Tony Stark decides to take his assistant Pepper Potts on a date, which is interrupted by another malfunction which puts lives in danger, leading Tony to change into his Iron Man armour and save the day again. Meanwhile, a circus performer decides to become a costumed adventurer, and thus begins the career of (eventually legendary) Hawkeye. He intercepts a robber but is mistaken by the police as being part of the robbery. Hawkeye escapes and is picked up by the Black Widow. She convinces him to help him defeat Iron Man. Hawkeye attacks Iron Man and holds his own for a while, although ultimately Iron Man comes out on top. Hawkeye escapes, with an injured Black Widow.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how much Iron Man gets paid to act as a workplace safety supervisor.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man defeats Hawkeye.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how the world came together and united in opposition to Kang the Conqueror. Why were there no holdouts? Why were we not united this way when we were challenged by the Atlanteans, or aliens? What makes Kang so much more dangerous than other evils we have dealt with as a planet? Kang claims to be a traveler from the future. Do we believe him? If so, how does time travel work? Is time travel compatible with free will? You don’t need to kill your parents to ensure you don’t exist, you just need to change the timing of conception - “you” will be replaced by your new brother (his name will likely stay the same). There was a lot to untangle in this extra-long episode!

Behind the comic:

This is the “official” first appearance of the iconic villain, Kang the Conqueror, although he had appeared under the alias “Rama Tut” twice before. The first time was in Fantastic Four #19, when the team encountered him during their own time travel adventure (although nothing was “public”, so it was not discussed on the show). His second appearance was in Fantastic Four Annual #2 (which was on the newsstand concurrently with this issue). In FF Annual #2, Rama Tut encounters Dr. Doom and the two men consider the possibility that they are actually the same man at different points in his life (never mind the fact that one of them would then remember the encounter!) Many of the origin stories in this era are weak, but this was a great issue and worth reading.

In this issue:

The Avengers are summoned by the Pentagon to attend a Red Alert meeting (by video). They are informed of a strange UFO, and asked to intervene. They do so, and meet the occupant of the UFO, a man who identifies himself as Kang the Conqueror. Kang explains that he is a time traveler with futuristic weapons. He uses these weapons to easily incapacitate the Avengers. The governments of the world unite to face down their common enemy, Kang. Meanwhile, the Teen Brigade convinces Kang that they are on his side, and he allows them to go into his ship, whereupon they free the captured Avengers, who do battle with and ultimately defeat Kang, who escapes into… time (don’t we all?)

Assumed before the next episode:

World peace does not last very long.

This episode takes place:

After the Avengers defeat Kang.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss diplomatic immunity and how it works in practice with Dr. Victor Von Doom. As a head of state, he cannot be charged domestically with a crime, but he can be expelled. And if he is expelled and returns to the country, he no longer has immunity. At least that is how we think it works. So why, after all of the crimes Doom has committed in our country, has he not been officially expelled? Also: Yes, Reed Richards, attempted murder IS a crime in our country.

Behind the comic:

This is a seminal issue. One part (not discussed in the episode) explores the relationship between Rama Tut (soon to be Kang) and Dr. Doom (where they hypothize that they might be the same person at different points in their timeline). Another part is the full origin story of Dr. Doom. Until this point, Doom was just a crazy scientist. This issue retroactively changes his origin story to include being the monarch of Latveria. The third part of the issue is Doom’s battle with the Fantastic Four, where the idea of diplomatic immunity is brought up (and discussed in our episode).

In this issue:

Dr. Doom recounts his humble origins in the small European nation of Latveria. Orphaned at a young age, with a grudge against the aristocracy of Latveria, young Victor Von Doom trains to be both a brilliant scientist and talented sorcerer. His research leads him to a scholarship in the US, where he meets a young Reed Richards. While at university, Doom sustains a serious facial injury when one of his experiments goes awry. This tragedy ultimately leads him to don the famous mask, and persona, of Dr. Doom, and to him taking over Latveria as its absolute monarch. And the world trembles!

In another story, we see Dr. Doom rescued from space by the time traveller Rama Tut, who has himself escaped the Fantastic Four from the distant past. Doom is deposited back on Earth and thereafter sets up a devious plan to break the Fantastic Four apart. Basically, he has them invited to the Latverian embassy, and they are tricked into thinking they are each others’ enemies. Eventually, the Four battle Doom once more, all leading to a battle of wills between Reed Richards and Dr. Doom. Reed wins, of course, by fooling Doom into thinking that he won. And with that, Doom saunters away, safe in the (mistaken) believe that he has defeated his mortal enemy.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether Latveria’s diplomats will be expelled after their leader tried to kill America’s sweethearts, the Fantastic Four.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four have once again defeated Dr. Doom.

Last week, due to human error, we published both of our two weekly episodes on Monday instead of Monday and Thursday. We will try not to let it happen again. Apologies.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Avengers Emergency Fund. Thor created a shockwave damaging the structure of buildings across half the state. He has admitted to the damage and directed those concerned to the emergency fund. But how does the fund work? Who decides who gets the money and when? Do you fill out a form? Do you have to sue? Do you need a lawyer? Mike walks Ed through the legal questions as we ask: “Are we now at the point where we need super-lawyers?”

Behind the comic:

This is the first meeting of Thor and Dr. Strange. At this point, Stan Lee has managed to guest his heroes in each other’s stories with regularity, but Strange is still the odd man out. Having the sorcerer battle Loki makes a ton of sense. Also interesting here is that when Strange needed surgery, it was performed by Dr. Donald Blake.

In this issue:

Thor strikes the ground with his hammer, causing damage halfway across the state. All to save Billy from getting run over by a truck (the hammer strike caused a runaway truck to move, avoiding a clueless Billy chasing a ball across the street). Thor volunteers that he will reimburse the city for the damage he caused (which, again, extended halfway cross New York State) by accessing the Avengers Emergency Fund. He then flies away to see Dr. Strange, who has hailed him through his astral form. Strange is taken to the hospital and operated on by Thor in his mortal guise of Dr. Donald Blake. Later on, Loki appears, separates Blake from his cane (which he uses to turn into Thor), and kidnaps Blake’s nurse/love interest Jane Foster. Blake then goes to Dr. Strange for help finding his cane, which he does. This allows Blake to transform into Thor, track down Loki, and rescue Jane.

Assumed before the next episode:

Thousands of people are trying to figure out how to make a claim to the Avengers Emergency Fund.

This episode takes place:

After Loki has been defeated by Thor once more.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Iron Man’s suspension and reinstatement by the Avengers. Under whose authority was he suspended? Who had the ability to reinstate him? Are the Avengers contractors, employees, or something different? What is the legal structure of the Avengers? Do they have an office manager and corporate lawyer? Who takes the meeting minutes? How does insurance work? Is the job a lot more boring that the media makes it out to be?

Behind the comic:

Stan Lee definitely makes the team dynamics of the Avengers very different from the Fantastic Four. Most Avengers issues DO have standing meetings where they discuss “Avengers business” - as opposed to the Fantastic Four, who are presented as a bickering family. Lee takes pains to let readers know that the Avengers each have their own private lives, and that they do not know each other’s secret identities, almost as if he is saying, “these people are not close friends - they are just work colleagues” (which eventually turned into a joke in the third Thor film).

In this issue:

Iron Man is suspended from active duty with the Avengers because he failed to respond to an Avengers alarm. At the same time, the Enchantress and the Executioner are banished by Odin from Asgard to Earth. They join up with Zemo to form a team of villains who fight the Avengers. The first thing they do is bewitch Thor into thinking his fellow Avengers are evil, which leads to him battling them as bitter enemies. Iron Man sees his comrades in peril and joins the fight, which eventually leads Thor to breaking the spell. They chase away the three villains, the “Masters of Evil”.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are taking note of villains joining up to fight superheroes.

This episode takes place:

After the Masters of Evil have been taken down, for now.

In This Episode

Mike and Ed discuss the world famous Kraven the Hunter and his trip to New York City. Was Kraven here on a tourist or working visa? Did authorities know he was coming in order to HUNT Spider-man? If Kraven committed a crime, why was he not charged domestically? If he did not, then why was he deported? Also: Will Kraven be hunting over super people with animal totems (like The Wasp, The Cobra and The Porcupine?)

Behind the Comic

Kraven is one of Spider-man’s archnemesis’s, and Lee will return to him again in only a few months. Kraven also works closely with the Chameleon in this issue, who is later revealed to be Kraven’s brother. There is no hint of that relationship in this issue though. The logic of Kraven being deported for doing the thing that he was on the front page of the paper saying he was going to do just days before is a little lost in the issue. But the art is great!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Soviet Agent “Unicorn” and his assault on a StarkCorp munitions factory. Does the Soviet Union still have plausible deniability with such a blatant attack? How will the US respond? What type of game are the two superpowers playing that can avoid a full-on nuclear war? Also: Secret identities can protect a hero’s family from being attacked by their enemies, but if the hero’s employers are public, doesn’t that put employees of the same company at risk from vengeful villains?

Behind the comic:

The Black Widow is becoming one of the regular Iron Man antagonists at this point. Iron Man’s stories, more so that the other heroes, are tied up in international conflict. Since the USSR is the US’s primary challenger at this point, it is easy to see why Lee goes back to that country for the majority of the villains that Stark faces. There will be more stories of the Black Widow coming soon.

In this issue:

Tony Stark is frustrated with living a double life. He decides to give up being Iron Man, at least for a short period of time, which leads to him dodging a call from the Avengers. Meanwhile, the mysterious supervillain the Unicorn is on the trail of Iron Man. He tears apart a StarkCorp factory, which lead to his friend and employee Happy Hogan being injured and his personal secretary Pepper Potts being captured. Tony Stark realizes the error of his ways, and springs into action as Iron Man. He tracks down the Unicorn and battles him, rescuing Pepper. The Unicorn nonetheless escapes.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if there is a more direct line between Iron Man and Tony Stark than they had previously known, given that Tony Stark’s personal secretary was kidnapped to draw the attention of Iron Man.

This episode takes place

After Pepper Potts has been rescued and the Unicorn has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the city’s latest supervillain: “the Beetle”. But is he really a villain? What do you call a criminal who steals from large corporations and then gives the money to the masses? A good person who does bad things? Is that worse than a bad person who does good things? And are superheroes fighting for the common good, or just defending the status quo?

Behind the comic:

Since the advent of the Superhero era, Strange Tales has continued to be the odd title out. Tales of Suspense and Tales to Astonish effectively became Iron Man and Ant-Man/Giant-Man and the Wasp, respectively. Strange Tales began its superhero version with a half-length story about the Human Torch (the youngest member of the Fantastic Four) followed by a random one-off science fiction story. That regular second story more and more came to be a tale about Dr. Strange, until eventually the magic-user was brought into the overall Marvel Universe and became the standard second feature in the title. With #123, two things happened:

* Dr. Strange finally gets half of the cover for himself - he becomes the co-star of the title rather than a call out in the corner.

* The Thing becomes a co-star of the Human Torch story. This was the “trial” of having Ben Grimm join the title, but it soon becomes official and the stories become about the hijinks of the Torch and the Thing instead of a Torch solo outing

In this issue:

Super-scientist (are there any other kinds in the Marvel Universe?) Abner Jenkins develops a costume that allows him to fly and gives him super-strength, among other cool tricks, solely for the purpose of committing crimes. He commits a robbery hoping the Thing and the Human Torch will try to stop them. He battles the two heroes, and the police, at one point dumping money that he had stolen onto a gathering crowd to create a distraction to facilitate his escape. He is eventually defeated by Johnny and Ben.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if the Beetle had the right idea of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor (although this was a ruse, obviously).

This episode takes place:

After the Beetle has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how Giant-Man and the Wasp prevented an alien invasion that started in Africa. Mike argues that there must be international treaties that allow foreign intervention. Ed believes that this is unlikely due to international bureaucracy, but that America can’t let that stop them from being the “World Police” - at least as it relates to extra-planetary invasions. Also: Who is paying for the jet that the two heroes crashed on their adventure?

Behind the issue:

More and more, Lee is incorporating the broader “Marvel Universe” seamlessly into each title. Here, the Avengers get an alert that there is a giant in Africa that is demanding human sacrifices, but, because it is not seen as a “huge” threat and many of the team members are busy with other work, the decision is made that Giant-Man and the Wasp can handle it on their own. The story otherwise follows the common pattern: the villain is ACTUALLY an alien who is “testing the ground” to see if his people should invade. After encountering resistance from Giant-Man, the alien giant decides for his people that “Earth is not worth it”. Sounds familiar? While Lee is trying to get kids to read more issues across the entire Marvel line, he is still generally assuming that most readers will not notice that this is the same story he has told with a half dozen earlier alien invasions.

In this issue:

Giant-Man and the Wasp head to Africa to investigate the story of a 30 foot tall giant. They fly over in a jet, and sure enough, there is a giant who grabs their jet out of the sky. Giant-Man and the Wasp are able to use teamwork to beat the giant, who is led to believe that they possess strange magical powers. The giant, who is actually an alien, decides that his people should not invade the Earth.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how broad a net the Avengers cast in the name of world security.

This episode takes place:

After Giant-Man and the Wasp have beaten the giant alien invader.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the heroism of Dr. Donald Blake, who single-handedly defeated the French supervillain, the Grey Gargoyle. What defines a superhero? Do you need superpowers, or is it enough to take on supervillains? And why was Blake on his own to begin with? Was he left out to dry by Thor because of his recent betrayal? Is the god of thunder a petulant god? Also: Why was one news agency in particular given access to the battle footage? What did they have to agree to in order to have exclusivity? Is it fair for a government-funded organization to negotiate that way? And what does it feel like to be turned to stone?

Behind the issue:

This issue introduces the Grey Gargoyle - the first super from France. Lee also uses the trope of “Avengers” and “StarkCorp” resources to allow his heroes to get access to any sort of extraordinary equipment the plot needs - in this case a portable holographic projector. But the most impactful element of this issue was requiring Donald Blake to be the hero. The idea that “being a hero is not about your powers, it is about stepping up and doing the right thing” is a common plot line in many modern re-tellings - perhaps most memorably in the film Iron Man 3, where Tony Stark needs to save the day with just his own brains and courage without being able to rely on his armored suit. This was one of the first issues to explored that idea.

In this issue:

Thor learns that Jane loves his alter ego, Dr. Donald Blake, which leads him to fly through the city like a lovesick teenager. Meanwhile, the Grey Gargoyle has landed in New York City. He has the ability to turn people to stone for an hour at a time, and it doesn’t take much for him to show of this terrifying ability. He had developed this power through a lab accident, which is fairly common for superpowers these days. He decides to use his powers for crime, and to also challenge the Mighty Thor. He gets his wish and battles the god of thunder, but is ultimately defeated by Thor’s alter ego Dr. Donald Blake, who uses a holographic projector to trick the Gargoyle into following a projection of Thor to the river, where the Gargoyle sinks to his apparent demise.

Assumed before the next issue:

People have forgiven Dr. Donald Blake for his past betrayal of Thor.

This episode takes place:

After Blake has defeated the Grey Gargoyle.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the production of the latest superhero film - this time starring Spider-Man. When Spider-Man gets paid, how does he declare it on his taxes? If he does not declare this income, does that create an additional incentive to never reveal his secret identity (because he is guilty of tax fraud)? Also: How deeply involved is the mafia in film production in America? And why are there so few superhero movies?

Behind the comic:

This is the first appearance of the Green Goblin, who is arguably Spider-Man’s archenemy. The Goblin is eventually revealed to be Norman Osborn, the industrialist and father of Peter Parker’s best friend. But in this first appearance, none of that is even hinted at. Stan Lee does not tell us who the Goblin really is (unlike most of the villains he introduces, for whom he spends a few pages on their back story and motivations). By all appearances it seems like the Goblin is just another disgruntled scientist, and his motivation seems to be best Spider-Man just for the sake of it.

This issue is also the first encounter between Spider-Man and the Hulk. We don’t talk about either set of events in the episode as they seem to be secret. But in a later issue of the Avengers, the team is looking at newsreel footage of the Spider-Man/Hulk battle. This seems weird given that the entire battle happens inside a cave. Consistency was never Lee’s strong suit.

In this issue:

The Green Goblin stops by a sleezy hotel room where the Enforcers are hanging out and takes over their gang by demonstrating his power. He then explains that he has a plan to get revenge on Spider-Man. The Goblin then convinces a Hollywood producer to shoot a movie starring himself (a costumed man on a flying broom) and Spider-Man. Next, he meets up with Spider-Man to tell him to meet with the Hollywood producer about starring in this movie. Spider-Man meets with the producer, signs the contract for the film, and then heads to Hollywood. He realizes during the movie shoot that the three Enforcers are the criminals whom he sent to jail (as they try to kill him). The fight ends up in a cave, where the Hulk happens to be. Spider-Man evades the Hulk, but is then attacked by the Green Goblin. Spider-Man escapes alive, as does the Green Goblin, and so begins a multi-decade rivalry. The movie is also cancelled.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are disappointed that the Spider-Man movie did not get finished.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man defeats the Enforcers and his movie is cancelled.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the nature of evil. Does even the most villainous criminal truly think of themselves as “Evil”? Is being amoral the same as being evil, or is that just selfish? When a group of criminals call themselves the “Masters of Evil”, how should we interpret that? Does it matter that their leader is a former Nazi? Once you signed up to work for a Nazi, you must at least be admitting somewhat to yourself that you are evil. Also: How do we know which supervillains are redeemable?

Behind the comic:

For the first couple of years of the Silver Age, Stan Lee was creating new villains for the heroes to fight every month. Then he started bringing the villains he liked back for re-matches. This issue is the culmination of that trend. It brings back three villains who have fought individual Avengers to fight group vs group. One neat twist is that the villains initially fight the Avenger that they had fought in the past, but then during the re-match the Avengers mix it up and go after villains who are not properly matched for their abilities. For instance, Melter is dangerous against Iron Man, but there is not much he can do against Giant-Man.

The villains are brought together under the leadership of Baron Zemo. The issue hints that Zemo was an archenemy of Captain America during WWII, and was responsible for the death of Bucky. This is all “Retroactive Continuity”. Zemo was a new villain created in the 1960s, and then given this backstory (just like the story of Bucky dying and Captain America being frozen in ice was a retro-continuity invented in Avengers #4). Zemo clearly goes on to be an important character, and a version is used as the primary antagonist in the MCU film Captain America: Civil War.

In this issue:

Captain America shows off his new “magnetized” shield/glove combo that allows him to basically control his shield in ways that would otherwise seem to defy the laws of physics. Meanwhile, Zemo relays his backstory to one of his agents, explaining how his mask was glued to his face during a fight with Captain America in WWII. The action then kicks into high gear, with the Black Knight flying through the city, spraying an adhesive around, causing vehicles to stick to the roads, boats to be stuck in the water, and all around causing some sticky business in the city. At the same time, the Melter melts the ground, making it sticky, too. And the Radioactive Man is radiating around, also causing things to get sticky. The Avengers meet the challenge, battling the villains in the street. Zemo joins the fray. The Avengers are tied up in sticky stuff, and retreat. They reach out to Paste Pot Pete in prison for advice on how to fix the sticky problem they face, and he directs them to a super-dissolver that he has which can dissolve any adhesive. This helps the Avengers unstick, and return to the battle with Zemo and his cronies. The Avengers are then able to defeat this group, who call themselves the Masters of Evil.

Assumed before the next episode:

Other supervillains are thinking about creating a supervillain group.

This episode takes place:

After the Masters of Evil have been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the second home invasion against the Human Torch in less than a month. How long until Reed installs security? What type of security is needed to protect against superhuman threats? Also: When should a superhero request help from the authorities and when is it more appropriate to go it alone?

Behind the comic:

Strange Tales continues to split the issue between the Human Torch (one of the most popular characters at the time) and Dr. Strange (whom Stan Lee was trying to make popular). We don’t cover Dr. Strange very much in Super Serious because almost all of his adventures take place in other dimensions or completely cut off from the rest of the world. This issue was no exception.

In this issue:

Remember the three ordinary people who were given powers by Dr. Doom? Well, they’ve decided that, despite Doom having disappeared (lost in space), they should take on the Fantastic Four. They kidnap Johnny “Human Torch” Storm, although he escapes. The three superpowered gangsters are hanging out in Johnny’s place, waiting to ambush Sue “Invisible Girl” Storm. Johnny races to confront them, although he doesn’t think to loop in the authorities or his own teammates, notwithstanding that he was recently overpowered by these three criminals. Anyway, Johnny confronts the trio and defeats them.

Assumed before the next episode:

Reed is seriously thinking about installing a security system in the home of his fiancée and future brother-in-law.

This episode takes place:

After Johnny narrowly defeats the trio of soon to be forgotten superpowered thugs.

Check out the new section in the newsletter where we go “behind the comic” below!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how Egghead was able to use an ant surveillance network against Giant-Man himself. If Egghead can do it, how many other nefarious characters will be able to do what Ant-Man/Giant-Man did? We may or may not be comfortable with an Avenger surveilling the city, but we don’t want just anyone doing it. But now that the technology is known to exist, how long until it is available to any ambitious actor? How will we stop the Soviets from monitoring our entire country with insects? We couldn’t stop them from getting the A-bomb. Also: Can Spider-Man talk to spiders?

Behind the comic:

This is the first time Spider-Man meets Giant-Man and the Wasp. Initially, like many first encounters in comics, Giant-Man and Spider-Man fight, but the Wasp convinces the two men to stop. One might think that the Wasp is the more level-headed one in her partnership with Giant-Man. But then at the end of the issue, inexplicably, the Wasp decides that she hates Spider-Man. Why? Apparently, according to the Wasp, because wasps don’t like spiders. Spider-Man’s thought bubble has Peter claiming the same thing. It seems like Stan Lee was just trying to create a sense of conflict between the characters, but in so doing he suggests that somehow heroes take on the traits of their superhero names. This MIGHT make sense for Spider-Man, but the Wasp’s powers have nothing to do with actual “wasps". So any hatred of things wasps hate - because wasps hate them - must be the result of serious psychological issues…

In this issue:

Hank “Giant-Man” Pym arms Janet “the Wasp” Van Dyne with a compressed air gun - a wasp sting, if you will. Meanwhile, Egghead has been plotting his revenge on Giant-Man. His plan? To communicate with ants, as Giant-Man does, and have them provide misinformation to Giant-Man. The first misinformation that the ants feed Giant-Man leads to a misunderstanding with Spider-Man, and the two of them brawl in the city. The police are distracted by their fight, which allows Egghead and his goons to commit a robbery. Giant-Man eventually figures out what happened, and he and Spider-Man join the Wasp in taking Egghead and his thugs down.

Assumed before the next episode:

Giant-Man is going to need to tighten up his communication system with ants.

This episode takes place:

After Egghead is apprehended.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Dr. Donald Blake’s betrayal of Thor. Why did he do it? Was it purely Machiavellian? Did they plan it? How does Thor feel about Blake now - is he still going to act as his bodyguard, or does Blake need a new Avenger to protect him? Also: Cobra seems to have shifted strategies from turning the world into Cobras to smash and grabs. Why the reduced ambition? And what will we learn now that he is in custody?

Behind the Comic:

This was part two of a series. At this point in the continuity, Stan Lee has decided to both (1) Start re-using villains, and (2) Bring the villains together in team-ups to raise the stakes. It combines this new idea with many familiar Thor tropes: Thor’s hammer is taken away by a machine turning him into Donald Blake; and Blake appears to betray Thor (discussed in the episode), which drive him further apart from his love, Nurse Jane Foster.

In this issue:

Thor battles Cobra and Mr. Hyde. During the battle, he transforms into his mortal guise of Dr. Donald Blake and is separated from his cane, which prevents him from turning back into Thor. The villains threaten the crowd and, in an effort to save them, Dr. Blake tells the villains that he will take him to Thor. The crowd is angry about this betrayal by Dr. Blake. But it’s all a ruse to allow Dr. Blake to get back to his cane, tap it on the ground and turn back into the mighty Thor. Having transformed once more into a superpowered god, Thor battles the villains and defeats them. Unfortunately, the world, including in particular his beloved Jane, believes that Dr. Blake betrayed Thor, not knowing that they are one of the same. It is a sad state of affairs for Dr. Donald Blake/Thor.

Assumed before the next episode:

Dr. Donald Blake is public enemy numero uno. Or at least, he’s certainly not well liked as people think that he betrayed Thor.

This episode takes place:

After Dr. Donald Blake apparently betrayed Thor, who was still able to defeat Cobra and Mr. Hyde.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest Spider-Man impersonator, “Mysterio”. It turns out Mysterio is NOT a hero, and has been impersonating Spider-Man’s wall-climbing and web-shooting abilities. He was only found out when Spider-Man recorded Mysterio’s confession. Is a recording like that legal? Just as it appears Mysterio was a fraud, couldn’t a tape-recorded confession also be fraudulent? Who can we trust?

Behind the Issue:

In this issue once again Spider-man has been impersonated for committing crimes. It is a trope that Lee goes back to again and again - and for good reason. The model for this title is making sure Spider-man has a “bad time” - things don’t go his way and he gets blamed for things that were not his fault. Having Spider-man be blamed for crimes he does not commit is a great way to do that. This issue is different and interesting for two reasons:

* The Spider-man impersonator actually impersonates Spider-mans abilities - not just his costume (like the pervious impersonators)

* Mysterio has his first appearance

Mysterio was the primary antagonist in the film Spider-man Far From Home. In it he begins as a hero, before he is revealed as a fraud. What is interesting is how similar that is to his first appearance here. Mysterio goes out as the latest hero who shows the world how he can defeat the “Spider-man menace”. Spider-man gets the villain to reveal his secret plans (on tape no less), and in future appearances Mysterio is just a traditional villain. But it is interesting that the first time he appears in film, the writers went back to how he was portrayed in his very first appearance.

In this issue:

Spider-Man is seen robbing a business and escaping into the night. J. Jonah Jameson gleefully announces to the world that he was right all along about Spider-Man, who is now wanted by the police. Peter Parker know it wasn’t him, though, or does he? He actually wonders if he committed the crime in his sleep. In any event, the public has turned on Spider-Man. Meanwhile, Mysterio appears at the Daily Bugle and asks them to publish an invitation to Spider-Man to meet him at the top of the Brooklyn Bridge, which they do. Spider-Man meets Mysterio high above the city and they fight, with Mysterio easily defeating Spider-Man and knocking him into the river below. Spider-Man eventually tracks Mysterio down and battles him while he is unprepared. When it appears he has the upper hand, Mysterio gloats to Spider-Man, explaining how all of his “superpowers” are really just illusions which also allowed him to imitate Spider-Man’s abilities to commit crimes. Fortunately for the true webslinger, he caught Mysterio’s confession on tape, and after a fierce battle which Spider-Man wins, he brings Mysterio to justice by turning him over to the police, along with his tape-recorded confession.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if they should stop trusting the Daily Bugle.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man has defeated Mysterio and been exonerated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how the newest vigilante, Daredevil, has quickly moved from battling common criminals to taking on supervillains. Also, what was his motivation for stealing the Fantasti-car? Is he trying to get the attention of a major superhero team, in the hopes of joining? Is he going to break into StarkCorp next? How should we feel about people without powers taking the law into their own hands?

Behind the Issues:

Daredevil #2 ups the stakes a little by having the hero battle a true supervillain rather than “common criminals”. Daredevil’s abilities become a little more impressive now as well. In issue #1 he was just “well trained” with enhanced hearing. This issue introduces his “radar sense” which effectively allows him to “see” everything close-by with 360-degree vision. DD also interacts with the Fantastic Four. Maybe there was negative feedback from putting the FF and Spider-man on the cover of issue #1 when they did not actually appear in the issue.

The Fantastic Four issue mostly takes place behind closed doors, so it is barely mentioned in the episode. It is notable though for the first guest appearance by Dr Strange in the title. Strange is unusual at this point because his magic-stuff in his own issues is very self-contained from the wider world. But Lee has clearly seen the value in having his heroes cross-over. The hope was that Strange’s appearance here would boost sales of Strange Tales (Where Strange gets half the book - but the covers are still focused on the Human Torch).

In these issues:

Daredevil #2

Ben “The Thing” Grimm retains the law firm Nelson and Murdock about an issue with their building lease. Unbeknownst to him, attorney Matt Murdock is the costumed vigilante Daredevil. This matters because Matt was too busy fighting the supervillain Electro as Daredevil to deal with this lease issue (come on, Matt - don’t quit your day job; seriously, you need it).

Daredevil’s fight with Electro was a battle for the ages. It included Electro, while trying to rob the Fantastic Four while they were away from the Baxter Building, beating Daredevil, loading an unconscious Daredevil into the Fantastic Four’s space ship, launching it into space, and Daredevil (who is blind) piloting the ship back to Earth, safely landing in Central Park. Then, Daredevil stole a horse, raced to a helicopter launch pad, grabbed onto a departing helicopter, and then dropping into the Baxter Building through a skylight to continue his battle with Electro. Ultimately, Daredevil wins the fight, and Electro is taken away by the cops. But Matt lost the building lease file.

Fantastic Four #27

Namor the Sub-Mariner is obsessing over Sue “Invisible Girl” Storm in his undersea kingdom. He decides that he must win her over, which leads to him breaking into the Baxter Building and fighting the Fantastic Four. After taking care of the Thing and the Human Torch, he pleads his case to Sue, and she rejects him. Undeterred, he knocks her unconscious with sleeping gas and steals her away to his kingdom. Reed Richards then arrives home and completely loses it when he hears that Namor has kidnapped Sue. He races off, on his own, to rescue her. Ben and Johnny are worried about Reed going off on his own and decide to enlist Dr. Strange for help. Johnny does that by writing a message to Dr. Strange in the sky in fiery letters. Dr. Strange meets up with Ben and Johnny in astral form and offers to locate Sue. He finds her being held prisoner in Namor’s undersea kingdom. At the same time, Reed busts into Namor’s palace and attacks Namor, who fights him off along with the help of his solders. Ben and Johnny come to Reed’s aid, and they battle on until Sue puts an end to the fight with an invisible shield. She then explains to Namor that she loves Reed.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are excited about this new superhero, Daredevil, who lives up to his name.

This episode takes place:

After Daredevil has defeated Electro.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the recent intense posturing by Senators and industrialists. Tony Stark has been accused of disloyalty by allowing a new weapon to fall into the hands of the Soviets. When Iron Man sets things “right”, Stark immediately claims that the weapon cannot be duplicated and that the US military cannot have it either. Is Tony Stark too powerful? OR is he trying to strike a fine balance between working with the government and acting as a bulwark against its power?

Behind the Comic

The second appearance of the Black Widow. She is back working for the Soviets. Any hint that she will one day become a hero is totally absent. Her defining traits seem to be sneakiness, beauty and charm - definitely not any fighting skills. Meanwhile, if Spider-man’s “human” issues center around being misunderstood and unlucky, Tony Stark’s issues seem to be being blamed by Senators every time the Soviets or aliens, or other civilizations do something to his company. Funny how billionaire corporate leader as government scapegoat has changed so little in 80 years.

In this issue:

Tony Stark invites an anti-gravity machine after months of work, arranging the circuits at random to the point that he could not recreate the invention if he tried (which is very odd). Black Widow, who is a Russian secret agent out in the cold, decides to steal the anti-gravity machine as a way to work herself back into the good gracious of her former spymasters. She ingratiates herself with Tony Stark and then steals the device from him. Iron Man tracks her down and ultimately destroys the anti-gravity weapon, which is preferable in his mind to letting the Russians get it.

Assumed before the next episode:

People wonder why Tony Stark did not at least keep notes.

This episode takes place:

After Tony Stark’s dedication to his country is weirdly questioned by the US government for a problem he did not exactly create.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Plantman’s attack on Johnny Storm in his own bedroom. Can we trust criminals to not attack heroes when they are sleeping? Why didn’t Reed Richards install better security? How can we prevent crimes like this in the future? Who is more at risk, superheroes or criminal prosecutors? Is this why heroes who have appeared after the Fantastic Four have been keeping secret identities, and if so, who can blame them?

Behind the Issue

Lee brings back Plantman for his second appearance. Now, in addition to communicating and controlling plants, Plantman can give plants “superhuman” [superplant?] abilities. This is part of a broader trend where the power levels of characters (both heroes and villains) inches up over time.

In this issue:

The villainous Plantman has figured out how to mutate plants into powerful weapons. Armed with this strange power, Plantman captures Johnny Storm, in his bedroom in Glenville, and locks him in his closet. He then goes on a crime spree, safe in the knowledge that teenager Johnny “the Human Torch” Storm is safely locked in his bedroom closet. Johnny escapes his closet, but it’s too late - Plantman has escaped after committing his robberies. Plantman then challenges Johnny to a fight in the Botanical Gardens. Johnny accepts and soundly defeats the villain.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering about their own safety, given that a superpowered hero such as the Human Torch can be attacked in his own home.

This episode takes place:

After Johnny has defeated Plantman once more. And likely upped his home security system.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Giant-Man’s return to mass surveillance. How far does his ant network go? Is the entire country being monitored? The entire world? Now that Giant-Man is part of the Avengers, is his surveillance technology being shared with StarkCorp and the US Military? Also, why has he shifted from organized crime to petty larceny? Do only rich people get the help of the Avengers?

Beyond the Issue

The villain in this issue is a common-criminal who also happens to be a stage magician. While Dr Strange has made it clear that magic exists in the Marvel Universe, in this case “The Magician” just uses parlor tricks and sleight of hand to confuse and distract. He is slightly similar to Miracle Man from Fantastic Four #3, only without MM’s super powered hypnosis. It is also yet another example of the Wasp being captured requiring rescue from Giant Man.

In this issue:

Hank Pym (Giant-Man) plans to propose to his partner in super-heroism, Janet Van Dyne (the Wasp). But before he pops the question, Janet makes him jealous by going to a party where she expects another man to propose. Meanwhile, Hank’s ant surveillance system picks up the Magician, whom Hank suspects is a criminal. Turns out he is right, and that the Magician has been robbing high society parties. Han decides to set up a complicated sting operation, along with the police, that involves setting up a high society party on a boat, and another one on a decoy boat that is meant to attract the Magician and his crew. The plan works, and thus begins the battle between Giant-Man and the Wasp vs. the Magician. The Magician is soundly defeated.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if they are being used as bait for sting operations.

This episode takes place:

After the Magician has been laid low by the combined powers of Giant-Man and the Wasp.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Dr. Octavius’s rampage across the country - and how no superheroes even attempted to stop him. If you commit a crime outside of New York City, did the crime even happen? And why, after all his success in places like Chicago and Dallas, did Doc Ock return to NYC? Will the ego of supervillains be their downfall? Also, to be clear, This is not legal advice for future supercriminals!

Behind the Issue

As we discuss in the episode this is one of the few examples of a super villain targeting cities outside New York. It is an iconic cover, and the first (of many) times that Spider-man was unmasked. This time Spider-mam went into the fight so weak his powers did not work, so when he was unmasked everyone assumed Peter was just trying to impress the girl. The issue also advances Peter’s first love interest with Betty Brant. Here Pete is about to share his secret with her before she tells him that she can’t stand the sight of Spider-man. More bad luck for Peter…

In this issue:

Dr. Octopus is on the run, engaging in a crime spree along the East Coast. He seems to be motivated about taking Spider-Man on again, though, and plans to return to New York City to confront him. He ends up doing that, and when they battle, Spider-Man unfortunately has the flu and is easily bested by Doc Ock. Spider-Man is unmasked and revealed to be Peter Parker. Everyone assumes that Peter was just dressed up as Spider-Man and not the real deal. Doc Ock leaves, frustrated that the “real” Spider-Man did not show up to battle him. Eventually, Spider-Man fights Doc Ock and, after an intense battle, takes a villain down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why supercriminals keep attacking New York City.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man has beaten Doc Ock.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of the Lava Men. One Lava Man tried to invade New York last year and was (barely) stopped by Thor. But now he has returned with an army. How does one stop an army of superpowered people? Apparently the Avengers DID stop them, using more brain than brawn. Is this the future of the super-team? Stopping wars before they happen? And how much is the US government paying StarkCorp. for access to this group? At any conceivable price they seem to be a bargain in this case!

Behind the Issue

In these early Avengers appearances it feel like Lee is struggling to figure out what do to with the heroes. The individual titles were relatively straightforward - make up (or recycle) a villain and have a battle with the hero (Where the hero loses). The hero re-groups and defeats the villain on the last page of the issue. The first four issues of the Avengers were different - whole they still had villains like Loki and the Submariner to vanquish, much of the issues dealt with (simplistic) team dynamics - the formation of the team, Hulk leaving the team, and Captain America joining. Now the Avengers moves onto phase two: Raising the threat level. Thor fought a Lava Man, so the Avengers can fight an army of Lava Men.

In this issue:

The Avengers are decompressing after their inconclusive battle with the Hulk. They all go their separate ways, although they are pulled back together by the attack of the Lava Men, superpowered humanoids living under the Earth’s surface who are strong and, well, very warm. The Lava Men have decided to attack the surface for a misguided reason. The Hulk joins the fight and causes more mayhem than anything before inadvertently taking away the Lava Men’s main weapon, a living stone, which helps Thor convince the Lava Men to retreat.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether the UN will engage in diplomatic negotiations with the people living beneath the Earth’s crust.

This episode takes place:

After the Avengers have defeated the Lava Men.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the threat that is “the Hulk”. What is the Hulk? Is he a human turned into a monster, or a monster with human-like intelligence? Where did he come from? Was he created by the US military? If it takes the entire Fantastic Four AND the Avengers to stop him, how will we protect ourselves from the Hulk in the future?

In these issues:

Fantastic Four #25

Reed Richards is working on a formula to reverse Ben Grimm’s transformation into the Thing, although Ben is reluctant to try the formula as he feels that his girlfriend, the blind sculptor Alicia Masters, loves him as the Thing. Meanwhile, the Hulk is being hunted by the Avengers, and rather than hide, the Hulk decides to take the fight to the Avengers and destroy them. The Hulk rampages through New York City to get the Avengers’ attention, which leads to the Fantastic Four taking him on. The Hulk and the Thing engage in a thrilling fight throughout the city, and into the ocean, leaving the Thing broken and defeated and the Hulk calling out the Avengers.

Fantastic Four #26

Ben “The Thing” Grimm continues to fight the Hulk, with the Army looking on. His teammate, Reed “Mr. Fantastic” Richards, is too sick to join the fight, although Johnny “the Human Torch” Storm, while banged up from his earlier encounter with the Hulk, rejoins the battle. The Hulk more than holds his own against Ben and Johnny, leading the Army to fire a missile at the Hulk, only to see him catch it and throw it into the sky. Finally, the Avengers show up on the scene, and the Hulk takes them on. The Fantastic Four re-engage the Hulk too, leading to these two superhero teams fighting the Hulk at once. The Hulk is finally chased away by the ants that Giant-Man has ordered to race all over him, causing them to itch so much that he is entirely distracted, allowing his young friend Rick Jones to pop an emergency gamma-ray treated capsule into his mouth, turning the Hulk back to Bruce Banner.

And so endeth the greatest fight in Marvel history.

This episode takes place:

After the Hulk has battled the Fantastic Four and the Avengers at the same time, and escaped.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if anyone can take the Hulk down.

Announcement:

After 125 episodes, we have decided to pull back on production a little to add more focus to show promotion. Starting now in 2022 we are moving to two episodes per week (Mondays and Thursdays). If we can get our listenership up to thousands of listeners per week, we will move back to three times per week. So you can help!

Please share this podcast with other like-minded friends. Review us on iTunes. Shout it from the rooftops!

In the meantime, here is Episode 125, based on X-Men #5, which is the first time the idea that mutants are “feared and hated” is introduced.

Enjoy!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss a super track athlete and the audience reaction to his abilities. Where do you draw the line between extremely-talented, and superhuman? If talented athletes are allowed and superhuman athletes are not, are we just asking the superhuman to reduce their level of effort? Who decides what constitutes “cheating”? And if we won’t allow superhumans to participate in society, are we just driving them to becoming vigilantes or villains?

In this issue:

The X-Men are on their own, without their mentor and leader Professor X, who is in a coma. Meanwhile, Magneto’s team of mutants are on the hunt for the X-Men. They actually have a secret base on Asteroid M, which floats above the Earth. They also have video wristwatches, in 1964, which is cool. Anyway, Magneto sends his henchman the Toad to participate in a televised track meet. Toad is so much faster than the other participating athletes, bounding with his mutant ability down the track, as to cause a riot amongst the spectators, who feel that he must be a fraud. The X-Men intervene and save Toad from the mob, but no sooner do they rescue him than he turns on the X-Men and attempts to escape. Magneto’s other teammates join the fight, and when the X-Men appear to be outmatched and all seems lost, they work together and are able to escape the clutches of Magneto. And Professor X also reveals that he was not in a coma, nor had he lost his mental powers (which the X-Men thought had happened in their last battle), explaining that he was just testing them (in a cruel, cruel way).

Assumed before the next episode:

Magneto and his team remain free in their orbiting headquarters, searching for their enemies, the X-Men. And people are starting to let their biases and prejudices creep in to their consideration of the superpowered set.

This episode takes place:

After the Toad trounced the competitors at the televised track and field meet.

A

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the recent appearance of Dr. Strange. Mike argues that “magic” may all be a fraud. Ed believes that magic is just science we do not yet understand. Maybe both are right? In either case, why is Dr. Strange the only magic-powered superhero? Is his magic just an application of mutant powers? And what are his powers exactly?

In this issue:

Dr. Strange walks around town dressed as, well, Dr. Strange, with his cape billowing in the breeze and his brightly coloured sash matching his brightly coloured gloves. But that isn’t the story. There is an allegedly haunted house in town, and a local TV reporter takes up the challenge to prove it is not haunted by spending the night in it. Dr. Strange tries to send his astral form into the house, but is rebuffed. He then uses his enchanted amulet to peer into the house, whereupon he sees the reporter inside the house overwhelmed by his view into the supernatural inside the home. Dr. Strange heads into the house to rescue the reporter, and negotiates with the otherworldly spirit to release the reporter in exchange for Dr. Strange remaining in the house. Dr. Strange then speaks with the spirit. It turns out that the house is actually alive, having come from another dimension to observe humanity, and is pretending to be a haunted house. Dr. Strange agrees to keep the secret of the “house”, and then banishes the house to the shadow world from whence it came.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are still trying to figure out how Dr. Strange made the “haunted house” disappear.

This episode takes place:

After Dr. Strange made the “haunted house” disappear.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the team-up of the Human Torch and Iceman. Is Iceman trying out for the Fantastic Four? Or is the Human Torch trying out to join the X-Men? What are the rules or expectations for changing from one superhero team to another? How are superhero teams the same (or different) from sports teams? Who has the leverage, the team owners or the players?

In this episode:

Johnny “the Human Torch” Storm is jealous of the attention the X-noMen are getting lately. As luck would have it, he runs into one of them, Bobby “Iceman” Drake, on a cruise. Some unfortunate criminals decide to rob the cruise ship, led by a man calling himself the Barracuda, and the Human Torch and Iceman team up to take them down.

This episode takes place:

After the Torch and Iceman take the Barracuda down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if the Fantastic Four and the X-Men are going to team up.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the revelation that the term “mutant” only refers to superpowered individuals born with their powers. Why have so many mutants appeared recently? Is the emergence of mutants at all tied to the arrival of the Fantastic Four? Or have mutants always been with us, but in hiding? Do mutant abilities run in families, or is mutation random? Is Thor a mutant? What about Spider-Man? And if mutant is the term for someone born with powers, what do we call people who obtain their powers during their life? Alterants?

In this issue:

Johnny “the Human Torch” Storm is jealous of the attention the X-Men are getting lately. As luck would have it, he runs into one of them, Bobby “Iceman” Drake, on a cruise. Some unfortunate criminals decide to rob the cruise ship, led by a man calling himself the Barracuda, and the Human Torch and Iceman team up to take them down.

This episode takes place:

After the Torch and Iceman take the Barracuda down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if the Fantastic Four and the X-Men are going to team up.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the mechanics of superhero fan clubs. Why are most members so young? Can anyone join a fan club? How much access to superheroes do members get? Do these clubs need security or at least require background checks? Is the fan club model going to work as it scales? Why is it easier to get access to superheroes than it is to traditional celebrities like rock stars and actors?

In this issue:

Giant-Man and the Wasp host a teen fan club of theirs at their downtown lab. Around that time, the Human Top escapes jail and immediately returns to causing chaos and robbing banks. Giant-Man and the Wasp investigate and ultimately run headlong into the Human Top, who steals Giant-Man’s size-changing pills and takes one, growing very large. The Top cannot figure out how to handle the size change, and he is easily defeated.

This episode takes place:

After the Human Top is bested once again.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are looking into signing up for superhero fan clubs to meet their heroes.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest costumed vigilante who goes by the name “Daredevil”. Do you need superpowers to be a superhero? How will society function when anyone can take the law into their own hands? But if people don’t start acting as vigilantes, will the city be overrun with organized crime? What are the trade-offs, and can reasonable people disagree on how to best address organized crime?

In this issue:

A man in a bright yellow and red costume, Daredevil, takes down the Fixer’s thugs through a combination of complicated acrobatics and daring do. It turns out Daredevil, secretly Matt Murdoch, has a grudge against the Fixer, who had Matt’s prizefighter father killed when Matt was a boy for not following through on a fixed fight. Bad news for the Fixer - Matt was blinded as a boy by radioactive effluent, but was also gifted with other heightened senses which allow him to compensate for his lack of sight, and then some. Matt, how secretly works as a defence lawyer, has vowed to war on crime with his amazing abilities, which led to him taking down the Fixer and his gang.

This episode takes place:

After the Fixer is fixed.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering who this latest “superhero” is, and whether he is a copycat Spider-Man or not.

In This Episode

Mike and Ed discuss what appears to be an assault on Stark Enterprises by a pair of Soviet Agents. Do they have plausible deniability? How is this different than when Thor and Hulk were advancing American interests in Asia? Also: We discuss the sacrifice of Anton Vanco, the original Crimson Dynamo, and how he should be honored by our country.

In this issue:

Professor Vanko, the Crimson Dynamo, works as a loyal employee of Star Enterprises. Meanwhile, in the Dynamo’s homeland of the USSR, the Russian spy network dispatches the Black Widow and an agent named Boris to the USA to take out Tony Start and the Crimson Dynamo. The Black Widow charms her way into meeting Tony Stark, while Boris disables the Crimson Dynamo and steals his armor suit. Boris, as the Crimson Dynamo, attacks Stark Enterprises factories. This leads Iron Man to investigate and battle Boris. Ultimately, Professor Vanko is killed in battle along with Boris, as the Black Widow, having failed in her mission, is cut loose and on her own.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man has defeated Boris.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether there are basically Russian super spies now.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Philadelphia and how super battles are expanding out of New York City. Meanwhile, Dr. Otto Octavius was released from prison and immediately returned to committing crimes. Has ANY supervillain been successfully rehabilitated? Also, are supervillains going to start working for organized crime, or are they going to start running organized crime?

In this issue:

Doc Ock is released from prison early, for good behaviour. He immediately returns to a life of crime by breaking a mobster out of prison. Spider-Man tracks Doc Ock down, and they tussle. Betty Brant’s brother, who was involved in the prison breakout scheme, is collateral damage in the battle.

This episode takes place:

After Doc Ock returns to a life of crime.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to wonder if they should build super prisons for supervillains; and whether there should be super penalties, too.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the possibility Giant-Man and the Wasp are working for the CIA. What are the risks of having American superheroes attempt to overthrow Communist regimes overseas? And who thought it would be a good idea for a 12-foot super-strong hero dressed in bright red to be the guy who sneaks around in a foreign country? Maybe this would have been a better mission for Spider-Man, or even Ant-Man…

In this issue:

The country of Santo Rico has elected El Toro as their president. El Toro was backed by the Communist bloc of countries, and Giant-Man is unhappy about that fact. Giant-Man receive a call from the government in Washington. They want him and the Wasp to travel to Santo Rico and pose as tourists, all the while gathering evidence of a communist plot in the election of El Toro. Giant-Man and the Wasp, in their civilian secret identities, are immediately identified as spies, leading to the Wasp being kidnapped and Giant-Man changing into his superhero outfit and battling El Toro, who seems to have offensive capabilities of his own. Giant-Man tears through the country looking for his partner. He rescues the Wasp, defeats El Toro, and unearths evidence of ballot box stuffing, which leads to the overthrow of El Toro and the return of a democratically elected leader.

This episode takes place:

After El Toro has been overthrown.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether superheroes should be involved in foreign affairs.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the new New York City law that bans “Flaming On” within the city limits. Can the city make a law targeting a single person, in this case, the Human Torch? Is a municipality the right level of government to regulate superpowers? How is regulating superpowers different from regulating weapons? Is “Flaming On” the equivalent of a flame thrower?

In this issue:

The Rabble Rouser, “a man with a powerful voice and a talented tongue”, whips New York City into a frenzy against the Human Torch and his alleged irresponsible use of his powers. The Rouser secretly uses his will-sapping wand to warp minds to his point of view. This leads to the city enacting a by-law preventing the Torch from flaming on without written permission of the Mayor. The Torch now out of the way, the Rabble Rouser continues working on his plan to use a sub-surface boring machine to capture a foreign dignitary, which he does. The Mayor gives the Torch permission to flame on, defeat the Rabble Rouser, and rescue the foreign dignitary. The Torch then destroys the Rouser’s wand, and all is back to normal for our young hero, as the Mayor rescinds the city ordinance targeted at him.

This episode takes place:

After the Torch has rescued the foreign dignitary.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are likely appalled to find that the Mayor enacted a law which sought to restrict the actions of a single person.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the rise of organized crime in the city, and the fact that Ant-Man (as Giant-Man) does not seem to care. Spider-Man has become involved, but is that only because he was falsely accused of leading the crime syndicate? Would he be helping out if it wasn’t in his direct interests? Also, can we trust the Daily Bugle anymore, or will they change their ways now that their reporter/columnist has been outed as a master criminal?

In this issue:

Spider-Man is attacked by criminals led by a mysterious man in a mask known as the Big Man, although he escapes. This is the lead in to our introduction to the Big Man, who has a crew which includes 3 men known as the Enforcers, ordinary men with extraordinary skills. The Big Man’s crew is on a crime spree, and Spider-Man investigates, leading to him fighting the Enforcers and, surprisingly, barely overcoming them. Meanwhile, the publisher of the Daily Bugle, J. Jonah Jameson, is having his columnist Mr. Foswell write articles claiming that the Big Man is actually Spider-Man. This obviously is not true. In any event, Spider-Man again takes on the Big Man’s crew and defeats them, although the Big Man is not caught. At the end of the issue, the police arrest none other than Mr. Foswell, who was the Big Man all along.

This episode takes place:

After the Big Man has been cut down to size.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to wonder if the Daily Bugle is needlessly biased against Spider-Man, and whether masked vigilantes can sue for defamation.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the ramifications of an alien child with the ability to destroy our entire solar system. What would happen if an army of adult aliens from this child’s planet arrived on Earth? Now that we are receiving regular visits by aliens, has it become apparent that we need to better understand the politics of our galaxy? Also, if an alien invasion won’t unite humanity, what will?

In this issue:

A bunch of weird stuff is happening in NYC. Building-sized spinning tops, giant robot figures, and other super-scaled toys are suddenly appearing in the Big Apple. The Fantastic Four investigate and learn that there is an unbelievably powerful alien behind these strange occurrences. The alien is taken in by some criminals who plan to exploit his strange powers. Mr. Fantastic figures out that the alien is actually a child who has the ability to destroy the world. He figures out a way to call the child’s parents, who arrive to pick up their errant kid.

This episode takes place:

After we all learn that it’s an alien child’s sandbox, and we just live in it.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are awed and terrified by the revelation of the destructive capabilities of this new alien civilization.

In this issue:

Mike and Ed discuss the Wizard’s most recent prison escape, but quickly move on to dive into the claim that Dr. Strange is possessing people in Germany. Does the claim hold up? Does Strange have a global reputation now? What does he do other than help police solve mysterious crimes? Is he a threat, and if so, what about all the other magicians pulling rabbits out of their hats?

In this issue:

In the first story, the Wizard escapes, again, this time having created a personal flying device while in prison. His plans for world domination are put on hold, though, as the Wizard decides to battle his arch-nemesis, the teenage hero the Human Torch. He kidnaps the Torch and then disguises himself as the young hero, mimicking his powers, and also somehow fooling his sister the Invisible Girl long enough to kidnap her too. He then tells Mr. Fantastic, as the Torch, that he and his sister are taking a vacation from the Fantastic Four. The Torch is able to send up a signal for help, and Mr. Fantastic and the Thing race to their aid and free their imprisoned colleagues. The Torch then goes to confront the Wizard, who flees with his personal flying device that malfunctions, taking him into the stratosphere.

In the second story, Dr. Strange detects dark supernatural forces at work in Germany. He heads there and learns that the townspeople have been bewitched by some dark power. It turns out malicious forces from another dimension have been possessing the townsfolk, but Strange is able to defeat them with his superior command of sorcery.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are not sure what to think about actual magic and sorcery being a part of everyday life.

This episode takes place:

After the Wizard has been defeated and tales of Dr. Strange’s adventure in Germany are reported.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Magneto’s takeover of Santo Marco. Magneto is calling his (presumably) super-powered lieutenants “mutants”. Is that the term we should be using instead of “super-powered individuals”? It is definitely more catchy. Did he recruit his “mutants” or did he create them the way Dr. Doom did? And why did they abandon the country just as they seemed to be in full control of it?

In this issue:

Magneto has gathered four fellow mutants to his cause: Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch, Mastermind, and Toad. Together, they take over the tiny island republic of Santo Marco. Professor X meets Magneto on the astral plane and pleads with him to stop attacking humanity, and to work with him for the betterment of all. Magneto rejects Professor X’s pleas for peace and cooperation. This leads to Professor X leading the X-Men to Santo Marco, where they plan to free the country from the iron grip of Magneto. The X-Men are outmatched by Magneto and his team, and while on the brink of defeat Professor X swoops in to save them. He shields them from an explosion and is likely concussed by it, and maybe even on death’s door. Magneto and his team leave the island.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether mutants are made or born.

This episode takes place:

After Santo Marco has been freed from tyranny.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of Captain America - for real this time? Unlike last year when he was selling used cars, this time the Captain is joining the Avengers, so he MIGHT be the same hero who fought in World War II. How can we be sure? And if 1940s technology can create a super soldier who does not age, why is that technology not more common today? What is causing our science to go backwards?

In this issue:

Where to begin? All right, the issue starts with Namor escaping the Avengers and swimming to the North Pole, where he encounters the locals worshipping a petrified figure frozen in ice. Namor garbles the frozen figure and throws it into the ocean. This causes the figure to thaw. Fortunately, the Avengers happen to be driving by in their submarine and see the figure, pull it in, and realize it is actually Captain America. Cap wakes up as if from a dream, panics, and then calmly explains that he is Captain America. The Avengers do not believe him and battle him, in their submarine. Cap handles them pretty well before cooler heads prevail. He then explains how he ended up frozen in ice at the end of WWII. Eventually, they make their way back to NYC, whereupon the Avengers are turned into stone statues by some mysterious power. This happens before Cap disembarks. He thinks it odd that the Avengers have statues by the dock, but he just shrugs it off and wonders into the city. Rick Jones finds Cap at a hotel to ask him questions about the Avengers’ disappearance, and the two join forces to figure out what happened to them. They figure out that there was a strange man at the dock when the Avengers arrived, and they track that fellow down and battle him. He is revealed to be an alien who has been trapped on Earth for eons, and actually inspired the legend of Medusa (as he had a weapon that turned men to stone). He further explains that Namor put him up to taking down the Avengers with the promise of helping him free his ship from the ocean floor so that he can return home. The alien works with Cap to turn the un-stone the Avengers, and the Avengers then figure out a way to free the alien’s ship from the ocean floor. Namor and his fellow Atlanteans show up and brawl with the Avengers. The Avengers, with the help of Captain America, chase Namor and his gang away. The alien also leaves Earth in his spaceship.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are cautiously optimistic that Captain America has returned.

This episode takes place:

After people learn that Captain America has returned, seemingly from the dead.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the revelation that the powers of Giant-Man (and Ant-Man) come from some sort of pill. Can anyone use these pills? How small a dose can someone take? What types of societal problems could these drugs solve? What are the side effects? Also: Giant-Man is in a cast. Does he need a Giant Doctor?

In this issue:

Giant-Man and the Wasp are putting on an exhibition of their amazing powers high above the city streets. Their old nemesis the Porcupine shoots a quill at Giant-Man, causing him to fall to the street below. He is able to avoid hurting himself too much by staying in his giant form. The Porcupine then decides to infiltrate Giant-Man’s fan club when they head to see Giant-Man, all dressed up as villains from his rogues gallery. He, of course, dresses up as the Porcupine and, once he is with the club with Giant-Man, he springs into action, attacking Giant-Man. The battle spills out into the street, but the Porcupine escapes. He has actually captured the Wasp and is holding her prisoner. The Wasp escapes, but the Porcupine has marked her with a tracker. This leads the Porcupine to Giant-Man and the Wasp’s secret base, where they battle once more. Giant-Man surprises the Porcupine by shrinking and then growing. The Porcupine grabs some of Giant-Man’s size-changing pills and swallows all of them, causing him to shrink out of sight.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering when they will be able to buy pills that can turn them into superpowered giants.

This episode takes place:

After the Porcupine has been defeated by Giant-Man and the Wasp.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the origins of Electro’s superpowers. Were they related to his job as an electrical repairman? What responsibility does the city utility have for his transformation? Also, was his brain scrambled by the electricity that gave him his powers? How many other superpowered people have some sort of brain damage? And do all superheroes have cancer?

In this issue:

The people of NYC, including the police, seem to love Spider-Man, as much as criminals fear him. At the same time, Peter Parker is worried about his elderly Aunt May. Meanwhile, Electro, a man who can channel electricity due to a freak accident and warp it to his twisted ends, robs an armored truck and a bank, and even terrorizes J. Jonah Jameson. Jameson watches Electro climb a building using his electricity powers and concludes that he must be another famous wallcrawler, Spider-Man. So much so that Jameson publishes this lurid allegation on the front page of his paper, the Daily Bugle. Spider-Man subsequently battles Electro, and the photos that Peter takes of himself in the battle are misinterpreted by Jameson to prove that Spider-Man and Electro are one and the same. Jameson eventually realizes that his slanderous allegation of Spider-Man being Electro is wrong, when he sees Spider-Man swinging by at the same time that he knows Electro is in a different location. Spider-Man then battles Electro while wearing rubber gloves and short-circuits him with a spray of water.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering about the impact of superpowers on superpeople.

This episode takes place:

After people have learned about Electro’s powers.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest Reed Richard press conference. Reed has claimed that Dr. Victor Von Doom has been able to create specific targeted superpowers on demand (specifically powers that counter those of the Fantastic Four). What are the implications of this technology? How powerful can these targeted powers be? Also, should we be worried about being swallowed up by random solar flare Flares wormholes?

In this issue:

A dinosaur runs through the Fantastic Four’s headquarters, having escaped through Dr. Doom’s time machine. The team catch the animal and return it to its home time period. Meanwhile, Dr. Doom drafts three criminals onto his team with the promise of transforming them into superpowered people. And he delivers- one has extra good hearing, another is super strong, and another is fireproof. These powers are clearly designed to counteract the powers of the Fantastic Four. And they do, leading to all but Reed being caught and imprisoned by Dr. Doom. Oh, and Dr. Doom also has a robot which mimics the Thing’s strength and power. Anyway, Reed races to the rescue. As they battle Dr. Doom, a solar wave washes over the spot where Doom is - he had somehow attracted the flare to pass over one specific spot that he planned to have the Four at, at the right moment - and Doom is once more lost in space.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering when they might get superpowers.

This episode takes place:

After Reed’s press conference on Doom’s superpower technology and

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Daily Bugle’s claim that Electro is Spider-Man in disguise. Both Electro and Spider-Man can climb walls, and the Bugle’s photographer claims to have seen someone change from one costume to another. If this is true, what is Spider-Man’s motivation? Is he trying to manage two super brands simultaneously? Electro seems to monetize better than Spider-Man at least…

In this issue:

The people of NYC, including the police, seem to love Spider-Man, as much as criminals fear him. At the same time, Peter Parker is worried about his elderly Aunt May. Meanwhile, Electro, a man who can channel electricity due to a freak accident and warp it to his twisted ends, robs an armored truck and a bank, and even terrorizes J. Jonah Jameson. Jameson watches Electro climb a building using his electricity powers and concludes that he must be another famous wallcrawler, Spider-Man. So much so that Jameson publishes this lurid allegation on the front page of his paper, the Daily Bugle. Spider-Man subsequently battles Electro, and the photos that Peter takes of himself in the battle are misinterpreted by Jameson to prove that Spider-Man and Electro are one and the same. Jameson eventually realizes that his slanderous allegation of Spider-Man being Electro is wrong, when he sees Spider-Man swinging by at the same time that he knows Electro is in a different location. Spider-Man then battles Electro while wearing rubber gloves and short-circuits him with a spray of water.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are skeptical of the Bugle’s claims that Spider-Man and Electro are the same person..

This episode takes place:

While the Bugle is suggesting that Spider-Man and Electro are one and the same.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Thor’s tempter tantrum that tore up city property and demolished at least one private citizen’s car. Stark Corp. has volunteered to pay for the damage this time, but what is the long term solution when superheroes behave badly? Also, Thor went away with an alien robot; or was that the government sending the god to his room for a time out?

In this issue:

Thor acts belligerently in New York City, and people are scared. The Avengers race to the scene to see if they can placate Thor. They don’t, but nothing happens, Thor is in a mood. Meanwhile in Asgard, Loki is bending the ear of Odin and poisoning his mind about Thor. And then, Thor returns to Asgard to meet with his father, although Odin refused to see him. Loki then reaches into the future to influenced Zarrko, the Tomorrow Man, from the distant future, to return to the 20th century to battle Thor. Zarrko, who had forgotten about his interaction with Thor, remembers, and returns to our time with a giant robot, whereupon they cause wanton destruction. Thor meets them in battle and finds himself unable to overcome the robot (as Odin has halved his strength). In order to save the Earth, Thor agrees to return to the 23rd century with Zarrko to do his bidding.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if Thor is on the level.

This episode takes place:

After Thor has departed to the 23rd century with Zarrko, the Tomorrow Man!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Black Knight, a 14th century themed supervillain who flies a winged horse from ancient mythology. Is the winged horse Pegasus from Greek mythology, or one of many from Norse Valkyrie myth? Also, Giant Man shrunk during the battle. Is this verification that he is really Ant-Man? And what does his change in branding mean? Who has control of Ant-Man’s ant surveillance network?

In this issue:

Giant-Man battles criminals who are planning to sell scientific secrets to the Chinese, and succeeds in defeating them. One of them is Professor Garrett who, after being charged with crimes against the U.S., flees to a small Balkan nation. He is inspired by a statue of a winged horse to mutate a horse into a flying stallion. He subsequently returns to the U.S., dresses in medieval armor, and starts committing robberies. Giant-Man battles this new Black Knight high above the city skyline. He is captured and hogtied, but escapes by shrinking down to ant size. The Wasp rescues him before he plummets to the ground below, and they engage the Knight once more, finally defeating him (although he escapes).

Assumed before the next episode:

People are making the link between Giant-Man and Ant-Man.

This episode takes place:

After the Black Knight has been defeated

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Leopold “The Eel” Stryke. Leopold became infamous last summer when he accidentally stole a nuclear “briefcase bomb” with a deadman switch. If he had not been found in time by the Human Torch, all of New York would have been lost in an atomic explosion. Given that his crime was relatively minor, he is just now getting out on parole. But that did not stop the Human Torch from attacking him upon his release. Mike and Ed discuss the positives and negatives of our new world of vigilante justice, and whether criminals ever truly be reformed.

In this issue:

The Eel is released from prison. Although the newscaster carelessly reports that the Eel is “at large”, which the Human Torch overhears and freaks out about. The Torch heads to the prison and confronts the Eel, who has decided that it is a good idea to wear his supervillain costume as he strolls out of prison, only for the warden to intervene to explain that the Torch has been released. The Torch’s rush to judgment is reported on the news, and he is quite embarrassed. Although his instincts were not wrong; the Eel went right back to his life of crime. The Torch figures out where the Eel’s next robbery will be and confronts him once more, although the Eel escapes in his tricked out helicopter. They meet again, and the Torch comes out on top, defeating the Eel in a dramatic showdown at the aquarium.

This episode takes place:

After the Torch defeats the Eel.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if super-criminals should be locked up in super-prisons.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how Tony Stark’s atomic experiment caused the Angel’s personality to turn “evil”. They explore the possibility that this was a weird side effect, intentional, or purely accidental Every possibility is potentially Earth-shattering. How far along is the US military in its ability to control and shape minds? Or is this Stark tech proprietary and NOT being shared with the armed forces? Which is worse?

In this issue:

The Angel is flying near a Stark company plant where they are testing weapons. Iron Man is there, and he waves the flying young man off, as they are about to initiate an atomic blast. The Angel gets caught up in the ensuing radiation, and turns evil. He flies away and tries to join up with other bad people, abandoning the X-Men and generally proving to be quite unpleasant. Iron Man chases the Angel down and shocks him to his senses. The Angel, now once again on the side of the angels, is grateful for Iron Man’s intervention, and even more grateful that Iron Man explained to the police how the Angel became evil due to no fault of his own (and that he was back to normal).

This episode takes place:

After the Angel’s bad boy phase is over (for now).

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to ask more questions about mind control - and in particular, corporate mind control.

In this episode:

Ed and Mike discuss a robot artificial intelligence that attacked a science class at Midtown High on its own initiative. If a robot is self aware, should it have rights? What will its motivations be? Will it be even more alien than actual aliens (who are at least biological)? And what is Spiderman’s involvement?

In this issue:

Scientists bring a robot they call the Living Brain to Peter Parker’s high school for a demonstration. Flash Thompson keeps needling Peter during the demonstration, and their teacher tells them to box each other to sort their issues out. Peter holds back but still knocks Flash over with one punch. Meanwhile, two thugs try to steal the Living Brain and cause some damage to it, which causes it to go on a rampage in the school. Peter changes into his Spider-Man costume and, after quite the battle, finally defeats the super smart, super strong Living Brain.

In a second story, Spider-Man antagonizes the Human Torch into a fight, and acts like a real jerk to him and the rest of the Fantastic Four. Well, other than to Sue Storm, whom he clearly likes.

This episode takes place:

After the Living Brain has been defeated.

Assumed before the next episode:

People know that AI exists, and are both excited and terrified by that development.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of the Mole Man and his attempt to prod the world’s superpowers into World War III. Also, in the biggest press conference of the year, Reed Richards shares that he has augmented Sue Storm’s powers. In addition to turning invisible, Invisible Girl can now generate invisible force shields of tremendous strength. Will Reed be able to enhance other superpowered people? Can this same technique be used to give ANYONE powers? And are we really sure the Mole Man won’t return to strike again? Is burying a Mole Man in the Earth really the right way to contain him?

In this issue:

Reed Richards is testing Sue Storm’s incredible powers, which now include an invisible force field. Meanwhile, people are complaining about the Fantastic Four having their headquarters in downtown NYC. Eventually, the Fantastic Four fly out to an island, on the premise they may buy it for their new headquarters. It turns out that the Mole Man has led them to this location. Not only is he still alive, but he remains the ruler of the mole men people in the kingdom of Subterranea. The Mole Man plans to start WWIII by getting each side to think the other has fired first. Fortunately, the Fantastic Four are able to overcome the individual death traps set up by the Mole Man and defeat him, chasing him away.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether the Fantastic Four will leave town. And why they were so close to WWIII.

This episode takes place:

After Reed Richards has explained how close we came to nuclear annihilation.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed set aside their regular “in-universe” programming to come to 2021 and speak with Tom Peyer and Jamal Igle about Jack Kirby’s legacy. Jack Kirby was the most prolific artist in the Silver Age of Marvel comics. He was the co-creator of the Fantastic Four, Ant-Man, the Wasp, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and Dr. Strange - most of the major protagonists covered on the regular episodes of the show. Jack would go on to create the Eternals, who are getting their first major film treatment premiere today (hence the timing of this episode).

Tom started reading comics in the early Silver Age. He went on to be a writer and editor at DC, Marvel, and other imprints. He was an assistant editor on Neil Gainman’s Sandman.

Jamal is the creator of Molly Danger, and is known for his penciling, inking and coloring work on Supergirl and Firestorm. In 2007, he was an artist on Countdown to Final Crisis featuring Darkseid, who was originally created by Jack Kirby. This experience led to Jamal’s interest in Jack Kirby’s legacy. He has lots to share with us today.

We are super lucky to have these two guys on the show. We hope you enjoy it!

Please feel free to reply to this email with any feedback you have. Do you enjoy these out of universe discussions? Are you impatient to get back to 1963? Let us know!

Ed and Mike (from 2021)

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Dr. Strange, the mystical magic-user whom the police claim has helped solve multiple cases that could not be explained by modern science. Has Mike already validated his 1964 prediction that magic will be important this year? How is “magic” different from the superpowers that the Human Torch and Thor have? Also, is “Strange” his real name? How convenient! And what exactly is he a doctor of?

In this issue:

Nightmare rules over the dream dimension, and plans to conquer humanity as he studies them while they sleep. He fears Dr. Strange and his tutor the Ancient One, who are able to combat him on his terms. Back on Earth, the police visit with Dr. Strange and ask him for help with the outbreak of people who cannot wake from their slumber. Dr. Strange obliges and, upon his investigation, determines that supernatural forces are at work. He enters the nightmare world to investigate, coming face to face with Nightmare. They battle, and Dr. Strange overcomes Nightmare with the use of his magic amulet.

Assumed before the next episode:

People do not know much about the strange Dr. Strange, but they are curious as to whether magic truly exists in the world.

This episode takes place:

After the police announce their use of Dr. Strange as a consultant.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss whether it was a coincidence that Giant-Man joined the Avengers just as Ant-Man disappeared (and now seems to be working with Ant-Man’s former partner The Wasp), or are Ant-Man and Giant-Man the same person? Also, the Human Top is revealed to be David Cannon, the world champion speed skater. Was he using his speed powers to cheat in Olympic competition? How many other world class athletes are actually superhumans who are hiding their full abilities?

In this issue:

Giant-Man is desperate to capture the Human Top, so much so he creates a spinning robot which replicates the Top’s abilities for practice. Meanwhile, the Human Top continues his life of crime! Giant-Man and the Wasp eventually track the Top down, and the battle is ferocious, with the Top escaping the dynamic duo with highly secret civil defence plans. Giant-Man meets with government agents to discuss how to bring the Top down before he delivers the civil defence plans to the Russians. A sting is set, as well as a trap set by the police. The battle between Giant-Man and the Human Top is joined once more, leading to Giant-Man taking the Human Top down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how closely Giant-Man is working with the authorities - and how he may be related to Ant-Man.

This episode takes place:

After the Human Top is taken down.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the impersonation of Thor by Mr. Hyde. We believe Thor because he has built up credibility and reputation over time. But how long are we going to accept these excuses or explanations for criminal behavior? Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm do NOT have Thor’s credibility, and yet they are claiming that they are not responsible for their fight (with each other) which destroyed not insignificant parts of the city because they were “mind controlled”. Are we expected to believe this as well? Also, Thor’s impersonator and the Fantastic Four’s mind controller have escaped and are still at large. Should that factor into our decisions on credibility?

In these issues:

Journey into Mystery #100

The public is unhappy with Thor, and the police actually fire their guns at him. Thor figures out that Mr. Hyde has been impersonating him while committing crimes. Thor then transforms to his mortal guise of Dr. Donald Blake, and as Dr. Blake, he takes his nurse Jane Foster out for dinner. Mr. Hyde kidnaps Donald and Jane, ties Donald up, and then takes Jane with him to steal a submarine. Donald transforms to Thor and battles Dr. Hyde, although Dr. Hyde escapes. The police then tell Thor that they had figured out that Mr. Hyde was impersonating him.

Strange Tales #116

The Puppet Master is back. He creates a Human Torch puppet and controls him to hit on his stepdaughter Alicia Masters, who is the Thing’s girlfriend. The Torch and the Thing fight, causing serious property damage in the city. Alicia figures out that her stepfather is behind the mayhem and intervenes, causing the Puppet Master to lose focus and thus control over the Torch, which causes the Torch to allow a flame fall out of the sky and burn the Torch puppet that the Puppet Master was using.

Assumed before the next episode:

The public has forgiven Thor but are not too sure about the Human Torch and the Thing.

This episode takes place:

After Mr. Hyde and the Puppet Master have been defeated.

In This Episode:

Mike and Ed give their take on what mattered in 1963, including:

* Rapid growth in the number of super powered individuals, resulting in team-ups, international expansion — and fraud!

* New Frontiers: If 1962 was the year of aliens, 1963 expanded what it meant to be alien with the discovery of three previously unknown civilizations here on Earth, plus alternate dimensions that are in some ways closer than Europe

* The Manufacturing of Superheroes: We now have a better idea how superheroes are “made”. The Sandman and Radioactive Man showed us the importance of atomic power. The Cobra showed that duplicating powers is possible. And the Russians managed to duplicate the comic-energy power generation that created the Fantastic Four

* This has led to a Technological Response to Super Powers. While 1962 saw villains like The Wizard and The Protector use technology to take on superheroes, 1963 took technology to a new level. Ironman - a normal human in a battle suit - has joined the ranks of the most powerful supers on the planet. Dr Blake’s android, while eventually being destroyed, was for a time more powerful than Thor. A half-dozen Wizard “copycats” showed that it just takes some engineering genius to enter the ranks of the super elite. Meanwhile containing supervillains has taken on a new urgency. We have not done a very good job of containing technological villains like The Vulture and Sandman, but so far super powered captives like The Vanisher and The Molecule Man, have not reemerged after whatever we did to contain their powers.

Also: Our hosts give their predictions on what the trends might be in 1964. You won’t want to miss this!

In this episode:

Ed and Mike discuss the Hate-Monger and his “Hatred Ray”. Unlike mind-control, this “emotion control” is far harder to identify. How would you know you are under the influence of a “Hatred Ray” and not just “mad and angry” for all the “normal” things that make you mad and angry? Will the effects of the Hatred Ray be permanent, or long-lasting, without an antidote? How do we know who in New York should be given the antidote? Can we force people to take the antidote? How thoroughly has this antidote been tested? Reed Richards took it, but he is not known for his caution…

In this issue:

A new villain, the Hate-Monger, causes a riot in New York City. He has whipped people into a hateful frenzy with a “Hatred Ray”. He uses it on the Fantastic Four, which leads to them acting entirely out of character, angry and hateful. Fortunately, Reed’s old army buddy Nick Fury shows up. Fury explains how the US military needs the Four’s help in San Gusto, and Reed, still feeling the effects of the Hatred Ray and antipathy towards his teammates as a result, goes alone. Meanwhile, the Hate-Monger heads to San Gusto, and he captures Reed. Fury rescues Reed and gives him the Hatred Ray antidote. The rest of the Four catch up, and Reed gives them the antidote too. Fully restored, they take down the Hate-Monger.

Assumed before the next episode:

People may still be angry, maybe due to the Hatred Ray.

This episode takes place:

After the Hate-Monger has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the pattern of supervillains breaking out of jail. Should there be greater measures placed on these super-prisoners? What about the Vulture’s technology - is it superior to Iron Man’s flying technology? The Vulture’s technology could revolutionize society! Also: do we need to worry about superheroes assaulting members of the press, like Spider-Man apparently did with the publisher of the Daily Bugle? Where does that lead?

In this issue:

The Vulture is a model prisoner. So much so that he is allowed to work in the machine shop, whereupon he creates a rough version of his personal flying device and flies away to freedom. He thereafter returns to his life of crime, stealing from businesses. He easily defeats Spider-Man when they meet up high above the New York skyline, although the next time they meet, Spidey gets the upper hand and takes the villain down. After defeating the Vulture, Spider-Man visits J. Jonah Jameson at the Daily Bugle and webs his mouth shut, out of anger at the newsman.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why prisons are suddenly so porous.

This episode takes place:

After the Vulture has been recaptured.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss apparent Thor’s turn to crime. The city seems to have a plan that they are putting into effect to stop the pagan god, but is it enough? This seems like the perfect opportunity to test superheroes against one another, and maybe even to use Donald Blake’s anti-Thor android against the real deal. Also, was Thor planning to break bad? If so, was that why he was allowing the military to test their weapons on himself?

In this issue:

The villainous Mr. Hyde waits for Thor to leave the city before he puts his evil plan in motion. Previously, Mr. Hyde was Calvin Zabo, a con man who tried to rip of Dr. Donald Blake, who fired him before he had the chance to do so. This frustrated Zabo to the point of inventing a serum which gave him super strength, and a monstrous appearance. As Mr. Hyde, he breaks into Blake’s office and threatens the good doctor, before pushing him out the window to his certain death. Blake is, of course, the mighty Thor, and he changes into his godly persona to rescue himself. Mr. Hyde is disappointed to learn that Thor saved Blake (in a manner of speaking), and decides to seek revenge. Thor then, uncharacteristically, robs a bank, leaving New York City in the grip of terror.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are afraid of their former hero, Thor.

This episode takes place:

After Thor robs a bank.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Human Torch’s battle with Sandman. It is one thing for superheroes to battle supervillains to stop them, but it is another thing for the superheroes to “call out” the villains for fights in a densely populated area! If they are going to do that, is the middle of the downtown core of the city the right place to do that? (The answer is no!) Also: please put Sandman in a glass cell or something. At least try to keep the super-criminals in jail. And Spider-Man really needs some way to stop every one from impersonating him!

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four plan to take the Sandman down. He has apparently escaped his jail cell - who would have thought a man who can turn into sand could escape a conventional jail cell - and the Four are on the case. The Human Torch goes after the Sandman but cannot force a confrontation with him. And so the Torch dresses up as Spider-Man and challenges the Sandman to a bout. Sandman shows up and the two fight, with the Sandman nearly defeating the Torch more with his brains than his brawn, but ultimately the Torch prevails.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if it is a good idea for super-powered people to fight amongst them (answer: no).

This episode takes place:

After the Human Torch has defeated the Sandman.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss “The Human Top” - a bank robber who appears to have the superhuman ability to “spin” very fast. What is unusual is that he has been “at large” since the late 1950s - long before the modern advent of superpowers. Is he superhuman, or just a very high skilled human? What is the difference between Olympic-level human abilities and “superhuman” abilities? Is every top athlete a “low powered” superhuman? Consider this - would it be ethical for the Thing to enter the boxing ring?

In this issue:

Dave Cannon has a special ability - he can spin super fast, evading anyone and everyone. He uses his special ability to commit petty crimes and then fix speed skating matches. He transitions to being a super criminal, known as the Human Top, and becomes public enemy number one! Giant Man and the Wasp decide to take him down, but are easily defeated by the whirling thief, with Giant Man causing significant property damage in New York City. The issue ends on a cliffhanger, as Giant Man and the Wasp wonder if they’ll be able to defeat this twisting menace.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering the extent to which super-powered people are in their midst.

This episode takes place:

As the Human Top terrorizes the Big Apple.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the ramifications of Iron Man working for StarkCorp (or is he working for Tony Stark himself?) Will every large corporation hire their own superhero? Do we want corporations controlling their own de facto armies? What does it cost to have a superhero on contract? Is it a case of “What is good for StarkCorp is good for America”? And what is Iron Man’s impact on the StarkCorp stock price?

In this issue:

A man named Mr. Doll is controlling people by carving miniature dolls of them. He turns his attention to Iron Man, taking control of him and sending him away. Mr. Doll then continues on with his quest to have business owners turn their fortunes over to them by taking control of them - through his dolls. Iron Man designs a new costume, which is now red and yellow, although he still finds it challenging to resist Mr. Doll’s machinations. He defeats Iron Man again. On his third try, Iron Man defeats Mr. Doll by tricking him into creating a miniature doll of himself; the shock of having done so causes him to drop the doll and incapacitate himself.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are talking about the connections between StarkCorp and Iron Man.

This episode takes place:

After Mr. Doll has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the new monster or alien or super-powered individual in Florida. Just because he is green and scaly, why does that make him “The Lizard”? Maybe he is a giant alligator or even a time-traveling dinosaur? Who is responsible for taking care of super-powered problems that are not world-threatening? Also,why didn’t the Daily Bugle offer to pay Spiderman’s bus fare?

In this issue:

The Lizard, a green reptilian humanoid, is wreaking havoc in Florida. This leads the Daily Bugle to publicly challenge Spider-Man to defeat the Lizard. Spider-Man decides to take the Lizard on, and in order to fund the trip, he convinces the publisher of the Daily Bugle, J. Jonah Jameson, to send his alter ego Peter Parker to Florida to cover the story. Spider-Man engages the Lizard, and loses. He then learns who the Lizard really is, Dr. Curt Connors, a scientist who was researching how to regrow limbs like a lizard who experimented on himself and changed himself into a reptilian humanoid. Spider-Man figures out how to reverse the transformation with a new formula, and injects it into the Lizard, turning him back into Dr. Curt Connors. Crisis averted.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether the Lizard was real or not.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man has bested the Lizard.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the potential causes for the Hulk leaving the Avengers and being replaced by Giant Man. The Hulk’s rampage through a Stark Industries manufacturing floor was attributed to an alien impersonator, but if so, why did the Hulk leave the team immediately after? Was the impersonation claim a coverup to allow the Hulk to leave without admitting liability? Also, now that Stark Industries has admitted to having Iron Man on their payroll, do we believe the corporation is funding all of the Avengers?

In this issue:

The Avengers have a board meeting. Not the most exciting thing, but even Asgardian gods and gamma-irradiated monsters need to discuss Other Business sometimes. Meanwhile, the Space Phantom arrives on Earth from outer space, dead set on destroying the Avengers to clear the way for his people to invade the Earth. The Space Phantom is able to impersonate people, sending the originals to Limbo while he does so. He invades the Avenger headquarters and thereafter impersonates the Hulk, starting a fight and otherwise causing mayhem. The Space Phantom, as the Hulk, causes a ruckus in teh street, and interferes with a Stark company weapons test. The Avengers rush in to stop the “Hulk” from causing further harm. The Space Phantom then impersonates Giant Man, and then Iron Man, and then back to Giant Man, and then back to Iron Man, causing mayhem throughout. He is only thwarted when he tries to impersonate Thor, which he apparently cannot do because Thor is a god. The Space Phantom is shunted off to Limbo as a result of his failed attempt at replacing Thor. The Hulk then quits the Avengers, unimpressed with the Avengers after learning what they really think of him during this adventure.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world distrusts the Hulk even more due to Space Phantom’s actions while impersonating him.

This episode takes place:

After the Space Phantom has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the most powerful super-powered villain encountered so far, the Molecule Man, can rearrange molecules and everything is made of molecules. After defeating the Fantastic Four in public, Reed Richards claims that his team defeated the villain in secret. How was a man so powerful defeated? Was he killed? If not, how can a man who can turn a jail cell into a rose garden being held against his will? Does the Molecule Man have any constitutional rights? And if not, where do we draw the line on who the Fantastic Four or the government are allowed to “deal with” extra-legally?

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four respond to a threat in the middle of New York City, which turns out to be a gateway to the dimension occupied by the Watcher, a mysterious alien whom we will learn more about as this series continues, but who for the purposes of this issue you should know simply observes but does not interfere. The Watcher explains that an Earthling known as the Molecule Man, who was accidentally created due to a mistake with atomic devices, poses an existential threat to the multiverse. Imbued with his powers to change molecules at his whim, the Molecule Man has been settling petty scores, and the Watcher is concerned that he will not stop until he destroys the solar system and beyond. The Fantastic Four return to Earth and take on the Molecule Man, who has already tried to take over the Earth. They do battle, but the Molecule Man comes out on top. He is nigh omnipotent, and has no problem demonstrating his amazing powers. All seems lost until the Thing’s girlfriend, the blind sculptor Alicia Masters, tricks the Molecule Man into believing that he cannot control the molecules in clay statues that Alicia has created of the Fantastic Four. It turns out that they are not statutes but in fact the Fantastic Four, covered in clay. The Watcher then re-enters the picture and spirits the Molecule Man away, rationalizing that because the Fantastic Four, at that very moment, technically defeated the Molecule Man, he can intercede and remove the Molecule Man from the equation.

Assumed before the next episode:

People wonder what happened to the supremely powerful Molecule Man.

This episode takes place:

After the Molecule Man disappears.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss a newly discovered dimension that exists alongside ours. This dimension has had the technology to observe us for thousands of years, and yet they do not yet have the secrets of atomic power. How rare is an understanding of atomic nuclear power among aliens and other-dimensional beings? Did humans advance in technology in some unusual way? Was it the discovery of atomic power that is causing all of these attacks on our planet? And is atomic power also why we are seeing so many super-powered people appear in such a short timeframe? Also, we welcome to the scene Giant-Man and take bets on which super hero team he will join.

In this issue:

Hank Pym decides to use his size formula in the opposite direction, and grow rather than shrink, becoming Giant-Man in the process. Meanwhile, the police are on the hunt for the Eraser, who is apparently erasing people from existence. The Eraser erases Hank Pym, who is actually transported to Dimension Z. It turns out the Eraser has been “erasing”, or transporting, human scientists to Dimension Z so that they can develop atomic power for them. Fortunately for Hank, the Wasp had shrunken and was “erased” with Hank too, unbeknownst to the Eraser. She helps free Hank, and the two of them free the scientists and bring them to Earth.

Assumed before the next episode:

People have not learned about Dimension Z, although they are grateful that their scientists are back. They’re also wondering about this new hero Giant-Man.

This episode takes place:

After the scientists have been safely returned to Earth.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the living legend, Captain America. Or, at least the guy who is impersonating him. Impersonating Capt seems like it would be even easier than impersonating Spider-Man - so why was everyone so eager to believe that the soldier from World War II had returned? And if Captain America truly did return, would he really spend his time selling used cars? Is our society and media truly that naive, or is it that the symbol of Captain America is so powerful that we refused to give voice to our doubts? Also, should the government create a new Captain America, if only as a symbol, or would that be insulting to the original? If we need a new name for a new icon, what should the name be?

In This Issue:

The town of Glenville is abuzz with the news that World War II hero Captain America has returned. Not only that, he’s making a public appearance at an antique auto show in town. Johnny Storm heads to the auto show and jumps into action as the Human Torch when he sees a robbery in place. So does Captain America, who treats Johnny pretty poorly. Nonetheless, Cap gets great press after he captures the thugs. We then learn that Cap was in on the robbery, when he breaks the thugs out of jail. Johnny tries to recapture the thugs and succeeds, whereupon he learns that Cap was in on the plan, which was all a smokescreen so that he could rob a bank. Johnny battles Cap once more and, once he defeats him, learns he is his old enemy, the Acrobat.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if the real Captain America will return.

This episode takes place:

After the fake Captain America has been captured.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how the X-Men have become famous celebrities, just like the Fantastic Four; what the best super power would be; and the definition of super-powered terrorism (is it the actions or the goal that make it a terrorist act?) Is the Department of Special Affairs part of the military, or does it report to the Departments of Justice or National Intelligence? Also, what do we do with super-terrorists when they are incapacitated? We do not have the jails that can hold them, or technology to neutralize their powers. Are they sedated, and if so, how can the government engage in such unethical treatment of these people?

In this issue:

The X-Men are sought after celebrities, beloved the world over. Surely this will never change. In any event, they have a new assignment from Professor X, which is to capture the Vanisher, a mutant who has the ability to teleport. The Vanisher is using his abilities to rob banks in a garish costume. He announces his intention to rob the Pentagon, which leads to much consternation. FBI Special Agent Fred Duncan reaches out to Professor X to ask him for help in preventing the Vanisher from carrying out his threat. The X-Men are sent into the field but are unable to capture the man who can disappear at will. The next time they meet is on the lawn of the White House - the X-Men versus the Vanisher and a veritable army of thugs. Before they can engage, Professor X uses his incredible telepathic powers to get the Vanisher to forget that he can teleport, and then forget who he is, leaving the X-Men to take down the thugs, which they do with ease.

Assumed before the next episode:

People breathe a sigh of relief that the Vanisher has been dealt with, although the conscientious among them wonder what became of him.

This episode takes place:

After the thugs have been cleared off the White House lawn.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the first super-powered person from India, the Cobra, who has abilities similar to Spider-Man and apparently knows how to duplicate how he developed his powers in other people. How do we handle a situation where not just countries, but individuals, have the ability to create armies of super-powered people? How long can we keep this technology secret? How will we handle terrorists when anyone can have super powers? And does the government have the right to stop experimentation on our own bodies?

In this issue:

A scientist working in India figures out how to give himself superpowers based on cobras, which is to let a radioactive cobra he had been working on bite him. Now calling himself the Cobra, he heads to the US and demands control over the entire planet. Thor intervenes and battles the Cobra, who can fly and shoot deadly venom vapour. The Cobra bests Thor twice, but on their third encounter, with the Cobra holding Thor’s friend Jane Foster hostage, Thor comes out on top. The Cobra slithers away, clearly intent on revenge another day.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if the Cobra’s miraculous powers are, indeed, capable of replication.

This episode takes place:

After Thor finally defeated the Cobra.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss a case of mistaken identity ,and how easy it seems to be to impersonate Spider-Man. Perhaps if you want to kidnap the wallcrawler, you should ensure that your captive can spin a web? And if you want to extort someone, wouldn’t threatening poor defenseless orphans be a better choice than a superhero anyway? Does the genius Doctor Doom have a master plan that we just don’t understand? Are we walking right into his trap?

In this issue:

The Daily Bugle is trashing Spider-Man as a lawless vigilante. But that doesn’t stop Flash Thompson, Spider-Man’s #1 fan (and Peter Parker’s teenage nemesis) from sticking up for his hero. Meanwhile, Dr. Doom plots his revenge against the Fantastic Four. He figures that all he needs is Spider-Man as his partner in his plan to take down the Four. Spider-Man rebuffs Doom’s efforts to woo him into a team-up, and the two battle, with Spider-Man escaping. Later, Flash dresses up as Spider-Man, and Doom mistakes him for the real deal and kidnaps him. The real Spider-Man battles Dr. Doom once more, and saves Flash from his evil clutches.

Assumed before the next episode:

People start re-thinking their Spider-Man Halloween costumes for fear of being kidnapped by a foreign dictator.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man has rescued Flash Thompson from Dr. Doom.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how everyone (other countries, aliens, other dimensional entities) seems to be kidnapping scientists. Has the United States started down this path as well? Did Professor Vanko defect voluntarily, or as a result of duress? Was his alternative a jail cell? Also, is Vanko going to mass produce armor that compares to Iron Man’s armor? If so, will Stark technology soon make the Avengers obsolete?

In this issue:

The Soviet leader visits top scientist Ivan Vanko, who has created a body armor similar to that of Iron Man. Vanko demonstrates the armor’s awesome capabilities. Vanko takes on the name Crimson Dynamo, and travels to the US and uses his armor to scramble the circuits of an experimental rocket. Iron Man springs into action and saves the pilots of the rocket just in time. Thereafter, Vanko starts attacking Stark production plants. The US government responds by cancelling their contracts with Stark, fearing over-reliance on the military contractor. Company president Tony Stark, who is secretly Iron Man, investigates and ultimately confronts the Crimson Dynamo. They do battle and, after Iron Man comes out on top, Iron Man plays a radio message that he had intercepted of the Soviet leader planning to assassinate the Crimson Dynamo. This causes the Crimson Dynamo to defect and then work for Tony Stark in his research division.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering when they might get a super-powered battle suit of their own.

This episode takes place:

After Ivan Vanko, the Crimson Dynamo, defects to the US.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the attempted take-over of New York by “The Plantman”. Where do his powers come from? Technology or some sort of innate power like the Human Torch? Also, he was stopped, but not apprehended. Do we need to stay afraid of all plant life going forward? And if the goal is world domination, why start with New York City?

In this issue:

Johnny Storm is dating a woman who basically does not like that he can turn into a literal human torch. Her father also has a problem with someone in his life - Sam the gardener - and so he fires him. Sam is actually an inventor, and late the night he is fired, he works away in his garden with a special formula that he invented to give plants intelligence. While doing so, a bolt of lightening strikes his device and gives Sam the ability to control all plant life. Armed with these strange and amazing powers, Sam goes about framing his former boss with a a crime. The Torch figures it out, and battles Sam, now going by the name Plantman. The Torch is defeated, and Plantman then heads to New YOrk City to take over the world through its plants. The Torch returns to battle Plantman once more, and after a pitched battle involving the Torch torturing plants, the Torch wins. Plantman remains at large, though.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are looking differently at their house plants and gardens.

This episode takes place:

After Plantman is defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the invasion of New York City by the “Lava Man”. There is apparently an entire race of lava-based humanoids beneath the Earth’s surface who can cause dormant volcanos in the Adirondacks to explode. We should be entering diplomatic negotiations with this society as soon as possible. Also, why was Thor the last line of defense instead of the first? And where were the other nine New York-based super heroes?

In this issue:

Thor saves a jet pilot from his plane as it spirals out of control over New York City. All in a day’s work for the god of thunder, Thor! He seems somewhat agoraphobic when the city media approach him, leading him to flee and return to his mortal guise as Dr. Donald Blake. Meanwhile, people are terrified to learn that a Lava Man is causing dormant volcanoes to erupt, leading many to leave the city. Lava Man defeats the military with his intense heat, and he gives Thor a run for his money. After a ferocious battle, Thor defeats Lava Man, returning him below the Earth’s surface.

Assumed before the next episode:

People slowly return to New York City, now that Lava Man has been defeated.

This episode takes place:

After Lava Man has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Alex Gentry, “The Porcupine”, a government scientist who stole the Iron Man-like armor that he had built and attempts to use it for a life of crime. Ant-Man figured out who the Porcupine was, but Gentry still escaped and is at large. Who is responsible for tracking him down? Also, how dangerous are porcupines anyway?

In this issue:

Alex Gentry invents a porcupine battle suit while working for the US government and decides to throw his previous life away for a life of crime as… The Porcupine! His first order of business is to rob a bank while looking like a porcupine, which he does. Ant-Man and the Wasp happen to be at the bank in their civilian guises, and decide to investigate. Ant-Man eventually tracks down the Porcupine, who is ready for him. The Porcupine tries to drown Ant-Man, although he escapes. He and the Wasp then return to battle the Porcupine and defeat him by spraying liquid cement all over him. The Porcupine then flies away, vowing to improve his porcupine battle suit (the fact that it flies isn’t enough) and do battle once more.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world feels safer knowing an ant and a wasp can take down a porcupine.

This episode takes place:

After the Porcupine is defeated by Ant-Man and the Wasp.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the origins of Flint Marco, “The Sandman”. How easily will his powers be duplicated, now that we know how he got them? Also, given that he is a super-powered threat within New York City, why wasn’t he dispatched by one of our official super-teams? Did someone forget to “call the ball”? Why was Marco left for Spider-Man to deal with?

In this issue:

Spider-Man is… having trouble with his crime fighting career. You see, the street thugs have figured out that they can just call the cops when Spider-Man tries to stop them from committing a crime, and the cops may just believe that Spider-Man, the masked vigilante, may be the bad guy. One night, Spider-Man comes across a different problem, the Sandman, a criminal who can turn his body (and his clothing) to sand. Sandman soundly defeats Spider-Man, who races away in disgrace, leaving the Sandman to continue on with his crime spree. The Sandman also attains some notoriety as the evening news recounts how he gained his powers when he came across an atomic devices testing center and was caught in the blast (much like the Hulk). Anyway, the Sandman, while evading the police, ends up at Peter Parker’s high school. Peter changes into his Spider-Man duds and battles the Sandman, ultimately defeating him by vacuuming him up while he is in his particulate sand form.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how easy it is to gain fantastic powers.

This episode takes place:

After the Sandman has been defeated by Spider-Man.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss a new alien race that seems to have all the powers of the Fantastic Four. Are all of their people like that, or just a subset of super-humans like us? Can WE create superheroes with ALL the powers? Is there something special about space and the power sets of the Fantastic Four? Also, not that we’re complaining, but do aliens give up their invasions after small setbacks?

In this issue:

Lightyears from earth, in the fifth quadrant of the Andromeda Galaxy, are the Skrulls, shapeshifting humanoids who are still smarting from their failed invasion of Earth the year prior. Not ones to give up, they have devoted all of their resources to creating a super being of their own, the Super Skrull, who has the powers of all four members of the Fantastic Four. They send the Super Skrull to Earth, and demonstrating a flair for the dramatic and a complete lack of self awareness, he lands in Times Square and claims the Earth for the Skrull Empire. The Fantastic Four meet the challenge and take the Super Skrull on. After a titanic battle, the Four turn tail and run. Fortunately, Reed Richards figures out that the Super Skrull is maintaining his strength through a power ray being beamed from the Skrull home world. And so he jams the beam, following which the Four are able to take the Super Skrull down. They seal him into a cave on a remote island, and that is that.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are relieved that their short time as Skrull subjects has come to an end.

This episode takes place:

After the Super Skrull is defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed talk about the uniting of Iron Man, Thor, Ant-Man, the Wasp, and the Hulk into a new super team called “The Avengers”. This is clearly a PR win for the Hulk, but what is in it for Iron Man and Thor? How do the Avengers relate to the US government and military? Are they a counter-balance to the Fantastic Four? Are they going to be based in New York, and if so, why double up in that city while leaving the west coast undefended?

In this issue:

Loki plots his revenge on Thor whilst imprisoned. He figures out that the best way to seek his revenge is to manipulate the Incredible Hulk. He does so by making it appear that the Hulk is damaging public property and putting the lives of innocents in danger. This leads to Thor, Ant-Man, the Wasp, and Iron Man to separately decide that they need to take the jade giant down. The four superheroes unite and track down the Hulk, who has disguised himself as a lifelike robot at a traveling circus. The four do battle with the Hulk until Loki is revealed as the true culprit. They make peace with the Hulk, who decides to join them in the world’s latest (second?) superhero team, The Avengers!

Assumed before the next issue:

People have whiplash in going from seeing the Hulk as a villain to seeing him as a hero.

This episode takes place:

After The Avengers have announced their team up to the world!

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the most super-powered individuals to appear on the scene in a single day. Are they truly super-powered, or is this a case of more advanced technology? Is Magneto truly a villain, or is he trying to make the public aware of nefarious dealings within the US Military? Where are these super powers coming from? Are these our first Floridian super heroes? What is Magneto’s motivation? Also, what does the “X” stand for if not “10”?

In this issue:

We are introduced to the X-Men: Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Angel, Beast, and Iceman, as well as their leader Professor X. They all have strange and unusual powers which they were born with. Professor X trains them in the use of their powers at his school for these gifted youngsters, who are all in their teens. Meanwhile, Magneto, the master of magnetism, plots his next move against humanity from his secret laboratory near Cape Citadel in Florida. He has been using his amazing control over metal to cause military missile launches to misfire. And he then amps up the pressure by demanding the US military turn over the Cape Citadel base, failing which he will take it by force. The military do not capitulate, and as a result, Magneto follows through on his threat and takes the base by force. The X-Men spring into action and do battle with Magneto, working alongside the US military. They eventually defeat Magneto using their marvelous abilities, working together as a team.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are keen to learn more about America’s newest superhero team.

This episode takes place:

After the X-Men have defeated Magneto.

In This Episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest “scientist gone bad” - this time, an engineer working at Stark Enterprises. If even mid-tier scientists have this tendency to go bad, how are we going to identify them before they do something that cannot be stopped by people like Iron Man? Also, Iron Man was unable to save Tony Stark from a car accident. Is one super-powered bodyguard enough for the billionaire?

In this issue:

Tony Stark crashes his race car, and bystander Happy Hogan comes to his rescue. Tony hires Happy to work as his chauffeur, and so begins their long and storied friendship. We also meet Tony’s long suffering assistant Pepper Potts.

Tony, as Iron Man, stumbles upon one of his most trusted scientists, Professor Shapanka, breaking into his vault. Tony fires Shapanka for his treachery. Weeks later, Shapanka perfects his freezing technology, which allows him to coat himself in ice and freeze things. Shapanka goes on a crime spree, as Jack Frost, and proves more than a match for the city police. Iron Man and Jack Frost do battle, and Iron Man comes out on top by overheating the mad scientist.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering which super-scientist will crack next.

This episode takes place:

After Shapanka/Jack Frost is arrested.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the implications of the original Merlin from the 4th century coming back to life in the modern day. As more and more of the ancient legends appear to be true, can we say there is some sort of cycle where every 1,500 years of so magic comes back into the world? Also, was the Thor/Merlin battle some sort of turf war? A battle of the “gods”?

In this issue:

The sarcophagus of Merlin, “famed wizard of King Arthur’s Court”, is delivered to New York City. Inside, the body of Merlin remains remarkably preserved, to the amazement of all. It turns out that Merlin is alive and well - he was just in a form of suspended animation - and awakens, fully intent on taking advantage of his emergence into the modern world. It turns out that Merlin actually does have magical powers, and murderous intent. Merlin quickly decides that the best way to get the world’s attention is to cause an experimental rocket to misfire. Thor bursts into action to correct the misfire. Undeterred, Merlin travels to Washington D.C. to meet the President. Thor intercedes and battles the mad magician. They do battle across the city until Thor changes to his human alter ego Dr. Donald Blake and then convinces Merlin that his magic is ten times more powerful than that of Merlin. Stunned, Merlin surrenders to Tho, and agrees to return to his crypt. And so endeth the tale of Merlin and his criminal adventures in 1963.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are intrigued by the introduction of Merlin to the world, long thought a purely fictional character. Who else will come to life in the modern age?

This episode takes place:

After Merlin has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the irresponsibility of the Department of Energy - why were they storing an atomic weapon in New York City, how did they allow it to be stolen by a common criminal, and why did the bomb have a deadman switch that caused it to explode an hour after being exposed to air? Also, are we demanding too much of our teenage superheroes in comparison?

In this issue:

Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, shows off his marvelous abilities high above his hometown of Glenville, and to his surprise no one pays attention to him. In fact, they are annoyed. Their annoyance at the young showboater is confirmed on the news that night - Johnny is showing off and undermining the police, apparently, in the process. The public has turned on Johnny, feeling that he is just a grandstander, and not a true hero. Johnny investigates further and learned that the police are grateful for his help. He speaks with the newscaster who is drumming up negative vibes about him, Ted Braddock, and finds that his charm does not work on this crusty journalist. Public opinion continues to sour on the Torch. That evening, a man dressed in a purple body suit and mask who goes by the name the Eel robs a famous inventor of a mystery invention. It turns out the Eel is actually a janitor at the local aquarium, who has decided to turn to a life of crime. But to make matters worse, it turns out that the mystery invention is a miniature radioactive atomic pile - an atom bomb - and the deadman switch has been pulled by accident. Johnny springs into action to find the Eel, and eventually tracks him down. They battle - the Eel has a surprising amount of cool weapons, for a middle-aged custodian - but Johnny defeats him, takes the bomb, and flies into the sky with it above the bomb, pulling the harmful radiation skyward with him in a risky maneuver that pays off and saves the town (if not the Eastern seaboard). Sadly, Johnny Storm is reported deceased as a result of this wild mission, and the world mourns. But on the same newscast, he is reported to be alive. Braddock changes his tune on Johnny - but the Eel remains at large.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are recovering from the wild swings between disliking the Torch, mourning his death, and celebrating his recovery.

This episode takes place:

After Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, has been reported to be alive and well after saving millions of people from being disintegrated by an atom bomb.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the “One Day War” with Dr. Doom and Latveria. Is this how all future wars will be fought - by destroying our ability to operate factories or use electronics? The Fantastic Four saved us this time, but what is to stop another attack? Should we take the war to Doom’s homeland? Is there a defence against this new type of attack? Or is our only defence an army of super-powered individuals fighting as “champions”?

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four are on the lookout for super-powered despot Dr. Doom. He eludes them, hiding in plain sight (somewhat), and then sends strange anthropomorphic floating creatures that are impervious to the Four’s powers, and are mainly sent to just irritate them. Dr. Doom then kidnaps the Thing’s girlfriend Alicia Masters, and also demands a post in JFK’s cabinet. JFK refuses to back down, which leads to Dr. Doom messing with their defence system. The Fantastic Four are tasked with bringing Doom down, and after a hard fought battle, they succeed, with the Invisible Girl taking Doom down through guts, guile, and strength.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world has learned of the tyranny of Dr. Doom, and are grateful for the Fantastic Four’s assistance in defeating him and restoring relative peace to the world.

This episode takes place:

After Doom has been defeated.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Dr. Donald Blake. He has been kidnapped twice (once by communists and once by aliens), and he is a world leader is germ warfare who also makes time to work as a surgeon and a family doctor. Most recently, he invented an android that is strong enough to withstand Thor’s hammer. Is Thor guarding Dr. Blake for his protection, or is he keeping an eye on him in case he “goes bad” like so many other geniuses? Also, is the android meant to protect us from superheroes gone bad?

In this issue:

Thor is secretly Dr. Donald Blake. As Dr. Blake, he has invented an android which Professor Zaxton demonstrates to a crowd at a science convention with the assistance of Thor. The android is amazing - he is able to solve the world’s most complicated mathematical problem and also withstand a strike from Thor’s hammer. The android malfunctions, and Thor disposes of it before it can do serious harm to anyone. Thor returns to his secret identity as Dr. Blake, and heads to his office. Professor Zaxton is waiting for him in his office, and he fills in Dr. Blake on his fiendish plan. You see, Professor Zaxton has invented a machine that can create copies of anything, and he wants Dr. Blake to help him use this technology to create copies of the android that he had invented. He has kidnapped Dr. Blake’s nurse Jane Foster to solicit his assistance. Dr. Blake turns into Thor, and before you know it Professor Zaxton uses his invention to duplicate Thor. He creates an exact copy who also has the opposite of Thor’s personality, and he remains under Professor Zaxton’s control. Thor battles his doppelgänger in the skies above New York City. Thor prevails over his evil copy, and returns to deal with Professor Zaxton, who makes a copy of himself and then falls to his death. Conveniently, the Zaxton copy is the opposite of the original - kind and benevolent. Thor then rescues Jane, and our tale comes to an end.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering what makes Dr. Blake so special.

This episode takes place:

After Thor has defeated his evil doppelgänger.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the events happening in Greece. The Cyclops from Greek Legend is alive and well - and working with aliens! Could it be that the ancient gods who have suddenly appeared, including Thor and Loki, are actually aliens? And if so, are these aliens turning their attention to Earth after learning about our planet from the Fantastic Four going into outer space? also, does the first Greek superhero need a makeover?

In this issue:

Hank Pym (Ant-Man) and Janet Van Dyne (the Wasp) head to Greece for a well-earned vacation from crimefighting. While there, they try to book passage to the islands, and learn that the local sailors are too frightened to go. Apparently, a monster has been sighted in the islands, and everyone is staying away. They rent a boat and go to check it out for themselves. Sure enough, there is a giant one eyed monster - a Cyclops - on the island, who has been keeping sailors on the island. Not only that, there are aliens and spaceships on the island. Ant-Man listens in on the aliens - they were scouting ahead for an invasion. Ant-Man and the Wasp take the aliens down, and they also disable the Cyclops, which was just a big robot. The aliens reassess their plans to invade the Earth, concluding as they do that the Earthlings have greater powers than they had suspected as they were able to take control of the Cyclops robot. And that is how Ant-Man and the Wasp were able to foil an alien invasion whilst on vacation.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are scared off from traveling to Greece due to their apparent giant monster problem.

This episode takes place:

After Ant-Man and the Wasp have defeated the aliens and their robot monster.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Doctor Otto Octavius — yet another super-genius gone bad. The Fantastic Four were called in to help by the governor, but claimed that they were “too busy”. Meanwhile, the Human Torch was seen at a speaking engagement at a local high school. Why couldn’t they make the time to help? Fortunately for millions of Americans, Spider-Man was available and DID save the Eastern seaboard. Was he just a subcontractor for Reed Richards, or was it just good fortune?

In this issue:

Spider-Man casually stops some thugs who were robbing a warehouse. Meanwhile, Dr. Otto Octavious, known as Dr. Octopus, while working at an atomic research centre using his mechanical arms to conduct nuclear experiments, is injured by an explosion at the research centre, leaving his mechanical arms fused to his body and responsive to his very thoughts. Spider-Man runs into Dr. Octopus, who has been keeping his former colleagues hostage, and is defeated handily. Fresh from his victory, Dr. Octopus continues with his mad plans to take over the research facility and increase his power. Spider-Man, in his alter ego, high schooler Peter Parker, is bummed out. He is motivated by the Human Torch, who happens to be giving a lecture to the students as Peter’s high school. Spider-Man decides to take a second crack at Doc Ock, and this time, he is able to beat him by his combination of brains and brawn.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are guessing which super-genius will break bad next.

This episode takes place:

After Doc Ock has been apprehended.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the war declared by the OTHER version of Atlantis (this one under the seas). Will the new threats cause surface dwelling rivals to unite the way they did in World War II? While the invasion was thwarted by Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four, does this mean that all global shipping is at risk? How are we going to protect our global supply chains from undersea threats?

In this issue:

Namor the Submariner, ruler of the undersea kingdom of Atlantis, declares war on the surface world.Meanwhile, the FantasticFour decide to go on a cruise, with the hopes of sighting a sea monster as per the rumours abounding the seven seas. The cruise starts off all right, and when the Four see a sea monster, they head into the ocean, whereupon they are captured by Namor, who explains how he had sent the sea monsters to the surface in the hope that they would attract the attention of the Fantastic Four. Complicated mission accomplished, Namor. Namor then demands that the Four relay to the United Nations that the seas and the skies above them are his imperial domain. Reed relays the message to the United Nations, and they convene a meeting to discuss Namor’s demands. An expert on Atlantis testifies about the origins of the water-breathing Atlanteans, and how they evolved separately from humanity, below the seas, as Homo Mermanus. The Atlantis expert further explains how the Atlanteans created an advanced civilization that evolved separately from the surface world. He also explains how Namor is half Atlantean/half surface dweller, and how his unique physiology led to him possibly being the first mutant of our time. The expert is then unmasked - it was Namor all along - and he declares war on the human race. The Atlanteans invade New York City, quickly bringing it to heel. Reed Richards then figures out how to defeat the Atlanteans, who are wearing helmets with sea water in it, as that is how they breath. Reed creates a device to cause the water in their helmets to evaporate, which leads to them leaving the surface and plunging below the surface to breath in sweet, sweet water. The Four then battle Namor in an epic conflict. Ultimately the battle ends when Namor rescues Sue Storm from a watery grave. The Atlanteans feel betrayed by Namor’s decision to save his enemy, and abandon him. Sad, sad Namor reflects on how it all came crashing down, and bemoans his lonely lot in life.

Assumed before the next episode:

Humanity is feeling nervous about having an advanced civilization off their shores. And they are confused - are there now two Atlantises? Atlantes?

This episode takes place:

After the Atlanteans have been repulsed from the surface world.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the implications of the discovery of Atlantis deep within the Earth’s crust. How will diplomatic relations be maintained? Are we comfortable with the threat of attack from below at any given moment? Also, is Iron Man now an employee of Stark Enterprises? And how is Thor paying for his enormous appetite?

In This Issue:

Tales of Suspense #43

Tony Stark, who is secretly Iron Man, intervenes at a Stark company experiment that goes haywire. After that event, Tony is kidnapped and drawn far below the surface at the behest of Kala, Queen of the Netherworld. Kala explains to Tony the origins of their advanced civilization, and how it originated with Atlantis before it was swept away by the sea many years ago. She then reveals that she has been kidnapping geniuses such asTony to help them work on devices that will allow their army to tunnel to the surface and invade the world above them. Tony agrees, but only to rebuild his Iron Man suit, following which he defeats the Netherworldians (Atlanteans?), and returns to the surface world.

Journey into Mystery #94

A nuclear warhead veers off course from its testing site. The nations of the world call out for Thor to help, which he does, diverting the missile and blowing it up where it would not harm anyone. It turns out that Loki, while imprisoned in Asgard, caused the missile to deviate from its path. Loki continues to plague through with further pranks, and finally causes Thor’s hammer Mjolnir to hit Thor in the head. This causes Thor to change his personality and become susceptible to Loki’s lies. Loki convinces Thor to free him. The two brothers head to Earth and cause various disasters, terrorizing humanity. Odin eventually comes to the rescue, causing Mjolnir to hit Thor in the head once more, freeing him from Loki’s control and, fortunately for Loki, erasing Thor’s misdeeds from the memories of the people of Earth.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why Iron Man is so connected with Start Enterprises, and why Thor is so connected with the American military.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man intervenes to assist Stark Enterprises at their testing facility, and after Thor helps avoid a nuclear disaster.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the jailbreak of the Wizard. In the past week, at least three super-geniuses have been involved in criminal activity (the Wizard, the Thinker and Egghead). Is there something about super-intelligence that leads people to becoming master criminals? Does this mean that other hyper-intelligent people like Bruce Banner and Tony Stark are at risk? What should we as a society do to prevent more geniuses from going over the edge?

In this issue:

Strange Tales #110

Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, reminisces about his short but eventful crimefighting career, including his takedown of the Wizard and Paste-Pot Pete. Meanwhile, Pete breaks the Wizard out of prison and proposes a partnership to take down the Human Torch. Their devious plan begins by planting a story about the Human Torch being a spy. It turns out that the Wizard has impersonated the Torch and committed treacherous crimes, fooling the world. Johnny tracks the villains down and singlehandedly defeats them.

Fantastic Four #15

Reed Richards summons his teammates to their headquarters for an urgent mission. He has learned that the top mobsters in the country have headed to New York for something big. Meanwhile, the Thinker meets with the same mobsters to explain how he intends to declare himself the ruler of New York. The mobsters do not believe him, citing the Fantastic Four and the threat they pose to their criminal schemes. The Thinker brushes away their concerns as he explains how he has set into motion a scheme to deal with the Fantastic Four once and for all. For you see, he has laid in motion an incredibly complicated plan to cause the Fantastic Four to break up. And his plan works, leading the Fantastic Four to all do different things, i.e. the Thing becomes a wrestler, Mr. Fantastic is hired by a top company, the Human Torch joins the circus, and the Invisible Girl becomes a star on Broadway. The Four remain broken up for some time, but they all come to the conclusion that they’d rather be part of their original team of adventurers as the Fantastic Four. And so they get back together and return to New York, whereupon they learn that the Thinker has taken over their headquarters. They try to retake their headquarters, and their attempts are originally rebuffed. At one point, an artificial life form created by the Thinker, the Living Android, battles the Four to a standstill. Eventually, Mr. Fantastic outthinks the Thinker by doing something so out of the ordinary as to completely disrupt the Thinker’s plans. Victory for the Four!

Tales to Astonish #45

Egghead, depressed and alone after his defeat at the hands of Ant-Man, is living in a flop house. He overhears criminals discussing Ant-Man and the Wasp and is inspired to devise a plan to destroy them both. He disguises himself as an expert on insects, and he then sets a trap for the two heroes, who nonetheless break free and defeat Egghead once more.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to question why leading scientists are turning to lives of vice and crime.

This episode takes place:

After the Wizard and Paste-Pot Pete have been defeated.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the break up of the Fantastic Four. What does it mean for a superhero team to “break up”? What will they do next? Has there been a hand-off of responsibilities? Does this explain why the Fantastic Four were not involved in the last alien invasion that was right on their doorstep?

In this issue:

Reed Richards summons his teammates to their headquarters for an urgent mission. He has learned that the top mobsters in the country have headed to New York for something big. Meanwhile, the Thinker meets with the same mobsters to explain how he intends to declare himself the ruler of New York. The mobsters do not believe him, citing the Fantastic Four and the threat they pose to their criminal schemes. The Thinker brushes away their concerns as he explains how he has set into motion a scheme to deal with the Fantastic Four once and for all. For you see, he has laid in motion an incredibly complicated plan to cause the Fantastic Four to break up. And his plan works, leading the Fantastic Four to all do different things, i.e. the Thing becomes a wrestler, Mr. Fantastic is hired by a top company, the Human Torch joins the circus, and the Invisible Girl becomes a star on Broadway. The Four remain broken up for some time, but they all come to the conclusion that they’d rather be part of their original team of adventurers as the Fantastic Four. And so they get back together and return to New York, whereupon they learn that the Thinker has taken over their headquarters. They try to retake their headquarters, and their attempts are originally rebuffed. At one point, an artificial life form created by the Thinker, the Living Android, battles the Four to a standstill. Eventually, Mr. Fantastic outthinks the Thinker by doing something so out of the ordinary as to completely disrupt the Thinker’s plans. Victory for the Four!

Assumed before the next episode:

The world remains shocked by the breakup of the Fantastic Four.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four have broken up, and before they get back together.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed talk about the ongoing drama of Spider-Man potentially joining the Fantastic Four. They discuss how dangerous and inappropriate it was for Spider-Man and the Human Torch to be sparring on public streets. Also: how easy is it to impersonate Spider-Man?

In this issue:

Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, loses his cool at all the great press that Spider-Man is getting. That is, until Spider-Man is framed for a museum theft in Johnny’s town of Glenville. Spider-Man, obviously unimpressed that he has been framed for a crime he did not commit, heads to Glenville and tries to talk to Johnny about teaming up and proving his innocence. Johnny, believing that Spider-Man is the criminal the papers now say he is, flies off the handle, flames on, and battles Spider-Man. They battle over the streets of Glenville to a standstill. Johnny eventually learns that Spider-Man has been framed, and decides to work with him to capture the actual thieves, which they eventually do.

Assumed before the next episode:

The public is not entirely sure if Spider-Man is a good guy or a bad guy.

This episode takes place:

After the museum thieves have been caught, and Spider-Man’s kinda good name is restored.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss a different type of alien invasion - an intergalactic monster! What happened, and how was the invasion repelled? Can we believe Ant-Man’s claims? Why weren’t the Fantastic Four involved? And what are the implications of a second super-small superhero - does this mean that Ant-Man’s powers can be duplicated?

In this issue:

Hank Pym recounts, to himself, how his wife was kidnapped and killed. He swears revenge, and is actually inspired to become Ant-Man by a comment that she made to him about ants generally. After reminiscing about this terrible chapter in his life, Pym meets Dr. Vernon Van Dyne, a scientist, and his lovely daughter Janet. They get to talking about their research, Van Dyne about a gamma ray beam that can pierce space and detect signals from other planets; Pym about molecular cell transition; and depart. Shortly thereafter, Van Dyne, while conducting his research, is visited by a monster from the planet Kosmos. The monster escaped his prison on his home planet by following Van Dyne’s gamma ray. The monster kills Van Dyne. Janet discovers the crime and decides to call Pym for help. Pym changes into his Ant-Man persona and inspects the crime scene. He returns to his lab, and Janet meets him there. Pym reveals his secret identity to her, and tells Janet that he can share his shrinking technology with her so that she can become the Wasp and help bring her father’s killer to justice. Janet agrees, and so begins her life of fighting crime. Together, Ant-Man and the Wasp join the battle against the monster from Kosmos, who is still on Earth and battling the military. They defeat the monster by shooting him with a special bullet.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering about this second super-small superhero.

This episode takes place:

After Kosmos has been defeated.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the Radioactive Man, a super-powered scientist working for the Chinese Government. The Radioactive Man’s attack on Thor appears to be a response to Thor’s recent attack on the Chinese military near the China-India border. Is China’s response proportionate? Or is it the first step towards an all-out nuclear and super-powered war?

In this issue:

Dr. Donald Blake is on an American medical mission in Asia that is suddenly attacked by the Chinese military. Fortunately for the Americans, Dr. Donald Blake is actually Thor. Blake turns into Thor and repels the attackers. The Chinese military deliberate on a response. Military scientist Dr. Chen Lu experiments on himself and turns himself into the Radioactive Man. Now super-powered, and radioactive, the Radioactive Man lands on the shores of the U.S. and, for some reason, decides to go through Customs, where he demonstrates his fearsome power. Showing a flair for the dramatic, the Radioactive Man stands on Broadway and challenges Thor to battle him. Thor meets the challenge but finds that he may be outmatched. Defeated, Thor leaves the field of battle and then figures out the best way to defeat the Radioactive Man, who is bent on blowing up New York City. Thor’s solution? He creates a private tornado that whisks the Radioactive Man back to China, where he blows up.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are wondering if the Chinese government is behind the Radioactive Man’s invasion.

This episode takes place:

After the Radioactive Man has been defeated.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss “The Sorcerer”, a man who claimed to have access and control over the actual “Pandora’s Box” from ancient Greek mythology. Could this be true? If so, does that make Thor’s claims of divinity more likely, and are we going to see more ancient myths come to life?

In this issue:

An eccentric hermit chases kids away from his property, and naturally, Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, decides to interfere on the kids’ behalf. This seems to tick off the hermit, who calls himself the Sorcerer, which leads to him deciding to opening Pandora’s Box, which he just happens to have in his house. The Sorcerer masters the ethereal sins living in the box and goes on a crime and mischief spree across town. The police consult the teenaged Human Torch for help, and he ends up battling the Sorcerer. The Torch wins the battle by absorbing a flame released by the Sorcerer from the Box, and so endeth the short criminal career of … the Sorcerer!

Assumed before the next episode:

The people of Glenville are recovering from their sinful antics, and wondering what they can blame on Pandora’s Box and what came naturally to them.

This episode takes place:

After the Torch defeats the Sorcerer.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the limited ambition of the latest super-criminal known as “The Vulture”. Are his powers inborn or through a mechanical exoskeleton? How would personal flying devices impact our world? Why weren’t any superheroes needed to capture him? Where was Ant-Man?

In this issue:

A new supervillain terrorizes New Yorkers - the Vulture! He swoops down from the sky to snatch briefcases and otherwise creep out the city. J. Jonah Jameson of the Daily Bugle is desperate for photos of the Vulture. The Bugle’s young photographer Peter Parker is keen to grab a few snaps of the villain, and heads out as his alter ego, the Amazing Spider-Man. The Vulture is actually quite easy to find - he taunts the police about his next planned robbery - and Spider-Man ends up battling him in the skies above the city. Round one goes to the Vulture. But Spidey doesn’t give up! He invents a cadet to mess with the Vulture’s flying contraption, and takes the Vulture down.

In a second story, Peter Parker meets the Tinkerer, who is working with aliens planning to attack the Earth. Peter changes into his Spider-Man costume and battles the aliens, chasing them off the Earth. All in a day’s work for Spider-Man.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are wondering why super-powered people are disguising themselves as animals.

This episode takes place:

After the Vulture has been grounded.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss Elias Weems, the scientist-criminal who was recently given a suspended sentence on the recommendation of Ant-Man. Weems has invented a device that can age and de-age anyone in its path. Will the ray be commercialized? What would a society where no one aged look like?

In this issue:

Professor Elias Weems is unceremoniously fired by his lab because he is over 65 years old. Angry and hurt, he turns his genius to inventing a machine that will make others old, too. He succeeds in his maniacal quest - pretty quickly - and starts using it on animals and then people. He thereafter threatens to age everyone in the city if it is not turned over to him. Ant-Man is looped into the caper and, after visiting various labs in town, zeroes in on Weems. They battle, and Ant-Man is prematurely aged by Weems’s aging ray. Weems finally realizes the errors of his ways when he accidentally ages his beloved grandson Tommy. Fortunately, Ant-Man has figured out how to reverse the ray’s aging process, returning everyone to their proper ages. At his sentencing, Ant-Man (whose identity is not known to the general public), speaks on behalf of Weems. His old boss actually hires him back, having realized it was wrong to discriminate against Weems.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world is shocked and intrigued at the prospect of being prematurely aged and de-aged.

This episode takes place:

After people have learned that technology exists to prematurely age people - and to make them younger.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed talk about how Iron Man has saved the world again - this time from the mad scientist Dr. Strange (not who you think). The hosts cover Iron Man’s positioning as both a world saver and trusted local public figure. Also, apparently there are now force fields that will stop atomic weapons - what does that mean for missile defense?

In this issue:

Tony Stark is living the life as a world famous man about town. He is fixated on building weapons for the army while also moonlighting as crimefighter and general do-gooder Iron Man. In his spare time, Iron Man cheers up kids at the local hospital, too.

Meanwhile, science terrorist Dr. Strange hatches a plan to hypnotize Iron Man to break him out of prison. The plan comes to fruition, and Iron Man busts Dr. Strange out and flies him to his island stronghold. Dr. Strange then announces his world domination plans to the world. Iron Man, obviously feeling that this is a personal affront, breaks into Dr. Strange’s island stronghold and battles Dr. Strange. He nearly loses, but fortunately for him, Dr. Strange’s adult daughter betrays her megalomaniac father and helps Iron Man defeat her father.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world marvels at everyman Iron Man.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man has defeated Dr. Strange.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the ramifications of Johnny Storm lying about his death. Was it really necessary to defeat this villain? Also, Thor is starring in a new movie. Will “movie star” become a right of passage for every hero?

In this issue:

Strange Tales #108

Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, breaks up a robbery and helps put the criminals behind bars yet again. The criminal underworld is frustrated by the Torch’s heroic efforts. Just when they are about to give up hope on their morality free life, a strange man with the ability to bring his paintings to life shows up and offers his services. The Painter then battles the Torch with his strange and powerful paintings-come-to-life and seemingly kills him. The world mourns the young hero’s passing. Then, just when the Painter and his gang have let their guard down, the Torch re-appears, having faked his death. He destroys the Painter’s magic paints and brings the criminals to justice.

Journey into Mystery #92

Loki grits his teeth while imprisoned in Asgard. Meanwhile, a couple of thugs bring their injured colleague to see Dr. Donald Blake after hours and threaten him into removing two slugs from their friend. Blake secretly turns into Thor and captures the criminals. Thor then goes to Norway to work on a movie as himself. Loki, watching all of this happen, somehow causes Thor’s hammer Mjolnir to veer off course and head from Norway to Asgard, where it shatters the chains keeping him imprisoned in Asgard. Thor is afraid that he will revert to Blake after being apart from his hammer for more than 60 seconds. Fortunately, Odin hears Thor’s silent prayers and scoops his son up and transports him to Asgard, where he will remain Thor despite having lost his hammer. Thor figures out that Loki must be behind his hammer going missing, and hunts for his brother. He recovers his hammer, and Loki is captured once more.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world learns that Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, is not dead - it was all a cruel and unnecessary ruse. Also, people hear that Thor is filming a movie as himself.

This episode takes place:

After the world has learned that the Human Torch faked his death to capture a B level villain, and after they have heard about Thor’s attempted transition to movie stardom.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the death of Johnny Storm, the Human Torch. What does it mean when a superhero dies? Does it matter that Storm was just a teenager? The hosts discuss how everything has seemed like fun and games until the deadly seriousness of fighting crime brings everything into focus.

In this issue:

Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, breaks up a robbery and helps put the criminals behind bars yet again. The criminal underworld is frustrated by the Torch’s heroic efforts. Just when they are about to give up hope on their morality free life, a strange man with the ability to bring his paintings to life shows up and offers his services. The Painter then battles the Torch with his strange and powerful paintings-come-to-life and seemingly kills him. The world mourns the young hero’s passing. Then, just when the Painter and his gang have let their guard down, the Torch re-appears, having faked his death. He destroys the Painter’s magic paints and brings the criminals to justice.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world mourns the passing of Johnny Storm, the Human Torch.

This episode takes place:

After the “death” of the Human Torch has been announced.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the return of the Fantastic Four after their pioneering exploration of the moon. Meanwhile, the Soviets ALSO claim to be the first to reach the moon. Who is lying? Also: the Soviets have finally created their own superheroes. What does this mean for everyday Americans?

In this issue:

Reed Richards decides that the Fantastic Four should travel to the Blue Area of the moon in order to win the space race with the Russians. Meanwhile, Russian scientist Ivan Kragoff, the “Red Ghost”, decides that he, too, should travel to the moon and claim it in the name of his country. His team is rounded out by his well trained but poorly treated ape, orangutan, and baboon, and they all develop powers due to cosmic radiation as they fly into space, much like the Fantastic Four did. Kragoff and his team actually appear to make it to the moon first.

The two teams then meet on the Blue Area of the moon in the remnants of a deserted ancient city where they can breath air normally. They do battle until the Watcher, an ancient cosmic being with incredible powers, explains his role of observing humanity and why he has decided to interrupt this dispute. The Watcher separates the teams, and they each continue to explore the ancient city on the moon. The teams do battle once more, with he Fantastic Four coming out on top. The four leave, with Kragoff and his team of sapient stranded on the moon.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world considers who really made it to the moon first.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four have announced their triumphant return from the moon and tried to explain why it is technically more important to have travelled to and from the moon, rather than just travel to the moon as the Russians did.

In this episode:

In this episode, Mike and Ed discuss the latest superhero to take the stage: the Invincible Iron Man. Ed argues that Iron Man is better than any hero that has come before him in managing his public relations. The hosts explore the differences between Iron Man, Spider-Man, Ant Man, Thor, and the Fantastic Four, and suggest that Iron Man has learned from his previous mistakes. Also: is the latest attack really an alien invasion, or is the “alien claim” the best way to jump into being a “tier one” hero?

In this issue:

Tony Stark is lauded the world over for his genius and accomplishments, all the while remaining at the top of the list of the world’s most eligible and sought after bachelors. Unbeknownst to his adoring public, Stark is also Iron Man, scourge of mobsters and science criminals alike. Stark figures out that his drab gray Iron Man costume scares the people he has sworn to protect, which leads him to painting his costume bright gold. Adventure awaits this new, golden avenger of wrongs. First up is the mystery of the walled-in town. Iron Man investigates and learns that Gargantus has not only taken over the town but also hypnotized its residents into worshiping him. Iron Man challenges Gargantus to a battle and easily defeats him, learning in the process that Gargantus was actually a robot sent by aliens to subjugate the Earth.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are thrilled with Iron Man’s prettier costume - gold is really in these days.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man has gone from grey to gold, and also secured his first big win against aliens.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how it is possible to “lose powers” once someone has them. Mike argues that some powers may have their origin in “magic”, while Ed argues that magic is just a word we use for things we do not understand. We estimate how many super-powered individuals exist right now, and make predictions for how many more we will see in the coming months.

In this issue:

Loki chomps at the bit to cause mayhem, but is prevented from leaving Asgard. And so he decides to cause trouble by given extraordinary powers to a carnival performer named Sandhu. Suddenly, Sandhu is able to levitate and teleport items. Sandhu moves on from simple tricks to trying to take over the world. Thor steps in but is easily bested, with Sandhu dropping a building on him. Thor is able to break free and continue battling Sandhu, ultimately causing Sandhu to suffer a mental breakdown and lose his powers.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world has recovered from the brief threat posed by the mighty Sandhu.

This episode takes place:

After Sandhu tries to take over the world and is defeated by Thor.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the “un-pardoning” of the Hulk; how to use super-powered individuals as checks on other super-powered individuals; decentralization; how the Fantastic Four is financed; and the risk the Soviet Union poses to our scientists and industrialists (including a missing Tony Stark). Also, why can’t the military tell the difference between the Thing and the Hulk?

In these issues:

Fantastic Four #12

The military, while marching through New York City (what???), bump into the Thing, mistake him for the Hulk (again, what???), and try to capture him. They realize their error, and the Thing goes home to the Baxter Building where he breaks some things and sulks. General Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross then stops by and asks the Fantastic Four to help him find the Hulk, as he has apparently destroyed a military cannon. The team agree, and they head to Ross’s military base with him. While there, they consult with Dr. Bruce Banner, who tries to convince Ross that the Hulk did not damage the cannon. The Four leave on their mission. Meanwhile, Rick Jones goes sifts through the wallet of Banner’s assistant Karl Kort and finds a membership card in a “subversive communist-front organization”. Kort appears over his shoulder, basically admits that he was the saboteur, “the Wrecker”, and pulls a gun on Jones. Kort then sends a note addressed to the Hulk, which Banner finds, telling him to drive the Fantastic Four away or he will never see Jones again. Banner turns into the Hulk and gets into a fight with the Four. He is defeated, but only because Kort shot the Hulk with a ray gun. The Four then take Kort down and are given an honor guard by the military.

Tales of Suspense #39

Tony Stark, a world famous inventor and playboy, demonstrates his latest invention to the military - tiny transistors that can increase the force of any device a thousandfold. He is then captured in Vietnam and injured. His captors demand that he invent a powerful new weapon for him before he will allow his surgeon to save his life. Stark agrees and, working with the world’s greatest physicist Dr. Yinsen (who is also a prisoner), he invents a suit of armor which saves his life. Yinsen sacrifices his life for Stark, who then escapes while using his new “Iron Man” exoskeleton.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why American scientists keep getting kidnapped.

This episode takes place:

After the Hulk has dropped down the super-celebrity rankings, and people have breached a sigh of relief when Tony Stark returns to America safe and sound.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the rumors that Spider-Man has applied to join the Fantastic Four. What are the requirements for joining this superhero team? Why Reed Richards considering expansion? Are there synergies by bringing Spider-Man onboard? What are the risks based on Spider-Man’s recent reputation issues? Mike and Ed also make a bet on where the team will be by the end of the year.

In this issue:

Peter Parker recounts his origin story as Spider-Manto himself, and how he went from being a celebrity superhuman to enemy #1 according to J. Jonah Jameson of the Daily Bugle. He then attends the rocket launch of J. Jonah Jameson’s son John. The rocket has been sabotaged, and the only way to rescue John is if a guidance doohickey is inserted into the rocket. Spider-Man volunteers for this dangerous mission and, in a stunning series of classic Ditko art, is able to insert the doohickey and save the day. Despite his amazing heroics, Spider-Man is still branded a menace by the Daily Bugle, and the FBI is on the lookout for him.

Spider-Man nonetheless continues trying to live the superhero life. He breaks into the Baxter Building and tries to join the Fantastic Four. He is dismayed to find out that he would not make any money as a member of the team, and leaves in a huff. Meanwhile, the supervillain the Chameleon, who can disguise himself as anyone he wants, frames Spider-Man and commits a robbery. Spider-Man chases the Chameleon down and battles him, ultimately leading to the Chameleon being taken into custody. Spider-Man is victorious, but remains a menace to the world at large.

Assumed before the next episode:

Spider-Man’s potential addition to the Fantastic Four is being discussed throughout the world. Is a Fantastic Five in our future?

This episode takes place:

After news of this new, potential, Fantastic Five has leaked.

In this episode:

In this episode Mike and Ed discuss the return of Spider-man. Why is the entertainer we loved last year running around punching criminals? Are the Daily Bugle’s attacks valid? Does the celebrity have a maturity problem? We recommend next steps if the Spiderman wants to salvage his career.

In this issue:

Peter Parker recounts his origin story as Spider-Manto himself, and how he went from being a celebrity superhuman to enemy #1 according to J. Jonah Jameson of the Daily Bugle. He then attends the rocket launch of J. Jonah Jameson’s son John. The rocket has been sabotaged, and the only way to rescue John is if a guidance doohickey is inserted into the rocket. Spider-Man volunteers for this dangerous mission and, in a stunning series of classic Ditko art, is able to insert the doohickey and save the day. Despite his amazing heroics, Spider-Man is still branded a menace by the Daily Bugle, and the FBI is on the lookout for him.

Spider-Man nonetheless continues trying to live the superhero life. He breaks into the Baxter Building and tries to join the Fantastic Four. He is dismayed to find out that he would not make any money as a member of the team, and leaves in a huff. Meanwhile, the supervillain the Chameleon, who can disguise himself as anyone he wants, frames Spider-Man and commits a robbery. Spider-Man chases the Chameleon down and battles him, ultimately leading to the Chameleon being taken into custody. Spider-Man is victorious, but remains a menace to the world at large.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why Spider-Man, that charming guy on the TV, is suddenly so bad.

This episode takes place:

After Spider-Man has performed two amazing heroic acts for which he does not receive any credit.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed talk about yet ANOTHER alien invasion. Are superheroes rotating responsibility? And are we numb to these these existential threats?

In this issue:

The Metal Master announces his arrival on Earth by melting metal and explaining how he has come from the planet Astra, many galaxies away. He demands that humanity surrender their planet to him. The US military does not take this threat lying down, and (ineffectively) fight back. The Hulk takes the Metal Master on and finds himself outmatched. He is knocked out, and taken prisoner thereafter by the US military. The Hulk eventually escapes, and with the help of a bunch of teenagers, fools the Metal Master into thinking that his powers have no effect on the Hulk’s weapons (he pretended to have metal weapons and this somehow fooled an alien who had the ability to travel across many galaxies). The Metal Master leaves Earth, in shame.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether they should be worried about alien invasions.

This episode takes place:

After the Hulk has repelled the alien invader, the Metal Master.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Johnny Storm’s first solo press conference, and how Reed Richards is running the Fantastic Four’s finances. How are governments paying the Four, and why isn’t Johnny being compensated for his labor?

In this issue:

Johnny Storm is practicing his torching skills outside of the town of Glenville. He returns home from practice to see that Carl Zante, the self-described world’s greatest acrobat, is keen to join forces with Johnny as a crime fighting duo “the Torrid Twosome”, promising fame and fortune to the young superhero. Johnny, who does not seem to be making any money from his time with the Fantastic Four, mulls over Carl’s offer. Johnny then quits the Fantastic Four, sews himself a new costume, and joins up with Carl. Their first mission is to rescue a teller at the Glenville bank who is locked in a vault. Johnny burns through the vault, whereupon he is betrayed by Carl, who douses him with liquid asbestos. Fortunately for Johnny, Carl’s gun jams before he can execute the young hero. Johnny’s former Fantastic Four teammates then show up and put Carl in his place, giving Johnny the opportunity to capture Carl himself. Johnny then rejoins the Fantastic Four with a new appreciation for his teammates.

Assumed before the next episode:

The gossip columns are full of speculation about the Fantastic Four and whether they will continue as a team.

This episode takes place:

After Carl Zante has been arrested for his crimes.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the third attempted large scale alien invasion in as many weeks. These aliens seem as powerful as the Impossible Man, but there were a lot more of them in this invasion. They debate whether Thor was only involved because he was acting at Donald Blake’s bodyguard, and whether any of these shape-changing aliens are still among us.

In this issue:

Aliens from the planet Xarta decide to travel from another galaxy to invade the Earth for some reason. The Xartans can change their shape to impersonate others, and they use these abilities to replace various highly placed people in New York City and have them act erratically, thereby throwing the city into chaos. Thor notices that people are acting strangely and decides to investigate. He finds a Xartan ship, and he is then separated from his hammer for more than 60 seconds, which causes him to revert to his Donald Blake form. Thor, as Blake, is captured by the Xartans, who explain their invasion plan to him. First, they cause chaos through a complicated body snatching plan; and second, they invade with their space ships. The Xartans are tricked by Blake into letting him secretly turn into Thor, who then battles the two leading Xartans and defeats them, which leads to the mighty Xartan fleet hovering above Earth’s atmosphere to leave. Thor then commands the remaining four Xartans from the landing party to turn into trees, condemning them to long, dull lives as non-sentient plants.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world has learned of this latest alien invasion and are left to wonder why the Xartans didn’t just invade with their superior galaxy-hopping technology.

This episode takes place:

After the failed Xartan invasion.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the definition of an alien invasion - does an attack from another dimension count? They also explore the limits of Ant-Man’s powers (Can he control wasps? How about polar bears?), and why he was involved in the inter-dimensional scientific kidnapping.

In this issue:

Henry Pym drops by his friend Paul’s place, but the door is locked. And so he shrinks to the size of an ant, breaks in, and confirms that Paul is indeed not home. The news that evening carries the story that another eminent scientist has disappeared, to the bewilderment of the authorities. Pym decides to investigate, as Ant-Man. Before he can do that, he is ambushed and kidnapped. Which makes sense, given that Henry Pym is an eminent scientist. Pym’s kidnapper takes him to another dimension ruled by the tyrant Kulla, who has been kidnapping Earth’s best scientists so that they can build a death ray for them. (Note: If they can master inter-dimensional travel, why do they need help with a death ray? A question for another time.) Pym changes into his Ant-Man costume and shrinks down, whereupon he finds out that he can control the minds of inter-dimensional insects, whom he . That’s handy, as he figures out how to defeat Kulla with the help of these insects . Pym and the other scientists then return home.

Assumed before the next episode:

The public is wrestling with the notion of inter-dimensional travel and the threat it may pose.

This episode takes place:

After Henry Pym and his fellow eminent scientists return from Kulla’s dimension.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the attempted invasion by the Impossible Man. As bad as it was, how much worse would it be if a full army of these incredibly powerful aliens arrived? Should we be creating a global defense shield against future alien attacks?

In this issue:

In today’s meta-news, this comic book opens with the Fantastic Four walking by a newsstand as excited men, women, and children clamber to buy the latest Fantastic Four comic book. They briefly interact with their fans before returning home to the Baxter Building, whereupon Reed and Ben recount their friendship over the years. They recount their fateful rocket ship adventure which led to them, as well as Sue and Johnny Storm, flying through a cosmic storm and transforming into super-powered adventurers.

The story continues with the introduction of the Impossible Man from the planet Poppup. He arrives on Earth and demonstrates his amazing powers to turn into anything he wants, with impish glee. The Fantastic Four are called into service by the police to deal with the childish menace posed by the Impossible Man. They find that they cannot defeat them head on, which leads to Reed telling the world to just ignore him so that he will go away, which he does.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world is united, briefly, in joy and satisfaction over their repulsion of the Impossible Man by treating him as an unruly infant.

This episode takes place:

After Reed Richards has recounted their origin story, and also after their adventure with the Impossible Man.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest “full disclosure” Reed Richards press conference. Now that we know their powers came from a cosmic storm rather than just a trip into space, do we need to invest in space meteorologists?

In this issue:

In today’s meta-news, this comic book opens with the Fantastic Four walking by a newsstand as excited men, women, and children clamber to buy the latest Fantastic Four comic book. They briefly interact with their fans before returning home to the Baxter Building, whereupon Reed and Ben recount their friendship over the years. They recount their fateful rocket ship adventure which led to them, as well as Sue and Johnny Storm, flying through a cosmic storm and transforming into super-powered adventurers.

The story continues with the introduction of the Impossible Man from the planet Poppup. He arrives on Earth and demonstrates his amazing powers to turn into anything he wants, with impish glee. The Fantastic Four are called into service by the police to deal with the childish menace posed by the Impossible Man. They find that they cannot defeat them head on,which leads to Reed telling the world to just ignore him so that he will go away, which he does.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world is left wondering why the Fantastic Four’s origin story keeps changing, and whether this means that whatever else they are being told about them and their adventures are true, embellished, or something worse.

This episode takes place:

After Reed Richards has recounted their origin story, and also after their adventure with the Impossible Man.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of the Wizard. Why was he allowed access to powerful chemicals while in jail? Do we need special prisons for this new breed of criminal? Also, should we reevaluate our views on the psychological effects of superpowers on humanity?

In this issue:

The Wizard is the model prisoner. Or at least that’s what he gets the warden to think, leading to the Wizard escaping prison. He then challenges the Human Torch to another battle. The Torch obliges, and ends up defeated by the Wizard. The Torch’s sister Sue Storm, the Invisible Girl, is captured as well. The Torch and the Invisible Girl work together and defeat the Wizard.

The Wizard needs to work on his self-esteem and stop challenging teenagers.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to wonder what they ever saw in the Wizard in the first place.

This episode takes place:

After the Torch and the Invisible Girl have been defeated by, and then defeat, the Wizard.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how Thor may be acting as a “bodyguard” for important American scientists such as Dr. Donald Blake. Also, has Ant-Man not done as good a job as we have been told about eliminating the NYC mafia?

In this issue:

Thor recounts his own origin story to himself, while Jane Foster fantasizes about dating Thor. Meanwhile, a mob leader is freed by his gang before he can be taken to prison. He is shot while escaping, and his gang takes him to Dr. Donald Blake’s office for treatment under the radar. Blake saves the mobster and is about to be executed by the gang, but before that can happen, he transforms into Thor and takes the gangsters down.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to notice that Thor is connected with mild-mannered Dr. Donald Blake.

This episode takes place:

After the mob leader Thug Thatcher has imperiled the life of Dr. Blake and been laid low by the might of Thor.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how news that would have been mindblowing a year ago has now moved to the “back pages” of the newspapers. Mike also argues that Ant-Man is not using his talents to their full potential, whereas Ed disagrees. Where do you stand?

In this issue:

The owner of Mitchell Armored Truck Co., Howard Mitchell, complains to the police about a series of hijackings of his vehicles. Fortunately for him, Ant-Man has been spying on the entire city through his network of ants, and through this network, he overhears Mitchell wishing he could get in touch with Ant-Man. And so Ant-Man literally catapults across the city towards Mitchell’s office and offers his services. Ant-Man sets up a fake hijacking, but before the sting operation is set, he leaves due to a medical emergency. Mitchell’s truck is hijacked by a mysterious masked man. Ant-Man then springs into action - he had faked his medical emergency and tagged along in the truck - and battles the hijacker, ultimately defeating him. The hijacker is unmasked, and it is none other than Mitchell, who was running what must have been a convoluted insurance scheme.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are seriously wondering whether it is a good idea to live under the constant surveillance of a person known only as Ant-Man.

This episode takes place:

After the hijacker is caught by Ant-Man.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss why the the Fantastic Four insist on using a flare gun instead of a pager, the (claimed) return of Dr. Doom, and why all of the team’s battles seem to happen where no one can see them (like, are they really happening?)

In this issue:

The Thing uses the Fantastic Four’s emergency flare to summon his teammates to his girlfriend’s apartment for no particular reason at all. He should have used the telephone. In any event, at the same time, Dr. Doom visits Marvel comics and demands that Stan Lee call Mr. Fantastic under false pretenses to lure him into a trap. Once Mr. Fantastic arrives, Dr. Doom overpowers him and spirits him away. He then explains how he survived being shot into space, before trading minds with him. Having transferred his brain into Mr. Fantastic’s body, Dr. Doom infiltrates the team and has them capture “Dr. Doom” (Mr. Fantastic in Dr. Doom’s body. The team does not catch on that one of their best friends has been replaced by a megalomaniacal despot. They eventually catch on and help “Dr. Doom” defeat “Mr. Fantastic”, and arrange for them to trade bodies back. Dr. Doom, now back in his body, accidentally shrinks himself with a reducing ray to nothingness.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why the Fantastic Four are not using pagers rather than flares in the sky, and how Mr. Fantastic can invent a flying car but cannot figure out how to use a telephone.

This episode takes place:

After Dr. Doom’s brief return to Earth.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of Bruce Banner. Why will no one tell us where he has been? And now that he’s back, is being tasked by the President to find the Hulk the best use of this super-genius’ time? Also, the Hulk appears to be advancing American interests in China. Is he working for the US military like Thor, and if so, is this public display of “stopping the Hulk” just a show for plausible deniability?

In this issue:

In the first story, General Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross tasks Bruce Banner with finding the Hulk. Meanwhile, Tyrannus, a man from ancient Roman times who has discovered the fountain of youth and lives far below the Earth’s surface with an army of enslaved creatures and monsters, spies on Betty Ross and determines that she will be able to help him take over the world. And so Tyrannus ends up kidnapping Betty and, once back underground, uses her to blackmail her father Thunderbolt Ross into not attacking him when he attacks the surface world. At the same time, Bruce turns into the Hulk and goes underground with Rick Jones to investigate Tyrannus. They end up being taken prisoner by Tyrannus, who has incredible machines at his disposal, and the Hulk is thrown into the gladiatorial ring and forced to fight. The Hulk smashes free of this forced labour, but is captured again. He then escapes, along with Betty and Rick. No word on whether Tyrannus survived this odd encounter.

In the second story, Bruce Banner decides to involve himself in international affairs by flying to the tiny nation of Llhasa (likely a stand-in for Tibet) as the Hulk, leaping out of an airplane in mid flight, and then taking on the Chinese army. At some point, the Hulk dresses up like the Abominable Snowman, although it is not clear why. In any event, the Hulk battles the Chinese army and defeats them.

Assumed before the next episode:

Everyone is wondering if the Hulk is a menace or basically a US military contractor. And debating the utility of a super powered monster involving himself in foreign affairs.

This episode takes place:

After the world has learned that Hulk has involved himself in international affairs.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed talk about the latest ridiculous villain, “Paste-Pot Pete”. His abilities are far more impressive than his image. How much of his villainy is a cry for attention?

In this issue:

Paste-Pot Pete is an ordinary human who has a gun that shoots paste. And with that, he is a master criminal with a terrible supervillain name. Anyway, he robs the bank in Glenville, a small town with nothing to distinguish itself other than that the Human Torch happens to live there. The Torch chases Pete down, but before he can catch up, Pete has stolen the most powerful middle the US military has every created, the Delta-Cosmic Missile. All with a gun that shoots paste. And so the Torch chases Pete down and ends up getting pasted onto the missile, which is fired through the air. The Torch escapes but still has a hard time defeating Pete, who again, just has a gun that shoots paste. To be fair, this paste gun is pretty powerful - Pete actually shoots some paste at a passing airplane to make his escape. But the missile was returned to the military. So I guess we’ll call this a draw between the superhuman who can light himself on fire and fly through the air, and the guy with a paste gun. Way to go, Torch!

Assumed before the next episode:

People were already nervous about living in NYC because the Fantastic Four live there and seem to attract trouble - and they’re likely getting nervous about living in Glenville, where the Human Torch lives.

This episode takes place:

After the public has learned that the Human Torch lives in Glenville, and that super-powered crime is taking place there.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of Loki, and how New York City seems to be the central focus on superhuman activity.

In this issue:

The issue begins with Loki being punished by his father Odin with confinement to the paradise which is Asgard. While luxuriously imprisoned, Loki casts a spell and, through that magic, figures out that Thor has an alter ego, Dr. Donald Blake, and that he must hold his hammer to maintain his godly persona. Loki escapes Asgard and heads to Earth, whereupon he challenges Thor to a public battle. They meet, and Loki puts a magical force field around Thor’s hammer Mjolnir, which prevents Thor from touching it. Thor reverts to his Blake persona, and Loki then leaves to wreak mischievous havoc on the city. Blake finally figures out how to trick an eternal trickster god into removing the magical force field - he stations a plastic dummy that looks like Thor near the hammer, and Loki, believing this is the brother he has known for eons, removes the force field to see if the hammer is still where he left it. Once the force field is removed, Blake grabs Mjolnir and transforms into Thor, who thereafter soundly defeats Loki.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are buying into the idea that Norse gods have returned to Earth,and are spending most of their time in New York City.

This episode takes place:

After Loki has been captured again, and his destruction has been magically repaired.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss who or what could be behind the insect attacks that have overwhelmed the city, and whether this should have been the responsibility of Ant-Man. Also: if there is a red beetle the size of a house, is his color really his defining feature?

In this issue:

A beetle is accidentally irradiated by atomic experiments. In a matter of moments, the beetle gains sentience, develops mental telepathy, and feels an overwhelming antipathy towards humanity. He battles Ant-Man, steals his growth gas, and becomes as big as a house. Now known as the Scarlet Beetle, he controls all manner of insects and directs them to attack humanity as he plots to take over the world. Ant-Man rejoins the fight and battles the Scarlet Beetle, ultimately prevailing by (cruelly) counteracting the effects of the irradiation. The Scarlet Beetle, now deprived of intelligence, sentience, and telepathy, and returned to a normal size, is left to live out his short life in Ant-Man’s front yard.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are feeling fortunate that they have Ant-Man as their guardian, but may be asking whether there is a connection between their favourite anonymous vigilante named after an insect, and an insect army that nearly took over the world.

This episode takes place:

After the city was overrun by insects and a giant beetle.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the incredible events since the Fantastic Four first appeared on the scene in a special year in review episode. 1962 - a year we’ll never forget!

In This issue:

This episode does not tie to any specific issue. Rather, we look back on everything that has happened from November 1961 through to the end of December 1962, including the introduction of the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Thor, Spider-Man, and Ant Man. We also dive into the major events that took place in their comics over the previous year that was public knowledge, which includes two alien invasions, the destruction of lower Manhattan, a half-dozen mind control incidents, and more!

This episode takes place:

At the end of December, 1962 - after Strange Tales #103 and before Tales to Astonish #39

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the Fantastic Four’s movie, and how human capital can easily turn around a financial disaster and put people right back on top. Also, is the world ready for the Submariner, past hero and recent villain, becoming a Hollywood mogul?

In this issue:

Namor the Submariner is watching TV underwater when he hears the news rocketing around the world - the Fantastic Four are bankrupt! It turns out that Reed Richards was playing with the stock market and lost all of their money. The Fantastic Four lose all of Reed’s amazing inventions, and the future of the team is in doubt. But then, fortune shines on the Four - they receive an offer to star in a movie for an incredible amount of money. The team readily packs up for Hollywood to shoot the film and earn enough money to return to the adventuring life. Once there, they find out that none other than Namor the Submariner, their kinda enemy, is financing the movie. They nonetheless continue with the project, with Namor hitting on Sue Storm while trying to incapacitate the other three. Sue rejects Namor and, along with the rest of the team, teaches Namor a lesson. The movie ends up being finished - and it’s a hit!

Assumed before the next episode:

The world marvels at seeing the Fantastic Four in a movie, exhibiting their amazing powers and forever relegating traditional special effects to B movie status.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four emerge from bankruptcy in the greatest movie of all time. This Issue:

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss why there seems to be so many “incidents” in the small town of Glenville. Are super-powered heroes and villains now happening everywhere, or do people like the Human Torch attract this type of thing?

In this issue:

Houses in Glenville are sinking into the ground and no one knows why. Johnny Storm, the Human Torch, who lives in Glenville, calls Reed Richards for help and is told to figure it out on his own. Some teammate. And so Johnny investigates and is at a loss for these strange occurrences. He returns at night and sees aliens using a ray gun on a house, which causes it to sink into the ground. He confronts one of the aliens and is transported to their dimension, the Fifth Dimension. There, he meets the overlord of the Fifth Dimension, Zemu, and is swiftly imprisoned. A group of dissidents free Johnny, and he inspires the people to rise up against Zemu. Johnny then returns to Earth and the life of an ordinary high school student (whom everyone must know is “secretly” the Human Torch).

Assumed before the next episode:

People were already nervous about living in NYC because the Fantastic Four live there and seem to attract trouble - and they’re likely getting nervous about living in Glenville, where the Human Torch lives.

This episode takes place:

After the public has learned that the Human Torch lives in Glenville, and that super-strange events are taking place there.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the ramifications of Ant-Man eavesdropping on everyone in the city through his network of ants and insects.

In this issue:

The criminal underworld is petrified of Ant-Man. They resort to hiring Egghead, a brilliant but corrupt scientist, to figure out how to defeat their tiny nemesis. Egghead studies ants and figures out how to communicate with them much like Ant-Man. He then sets up a fake robbery and spreads the word to Ant-Man through the ants, who lead Ant-Man into a trap. Ant-Man escapes the trap and takes the fight to Egghead and his accomplices, easily besting them. It turns out that Ant-Man knew of Egghead’s plans - the ants were loyal to Ant-Man and told him all about it. Defeated and disgraced, Egghead wanders away towards a life of irrelevance.

Assumed before the next episode:

The public, having learned that Ant-Man is spying on the entire city, is wrestling with the notion of security vs. freedom, and considering whether living in a city effectively run by a masked vigilante working with the police is a good idea.

This episode takes place:

After the public has learned of Ant-Man’s extensive spy network throughout the city.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of scientists kidnapped by the Soviets. Unfortunately, Bruce Banner was not one of them. Thor rescued the scientists, although he didn’t bring them all of the way home - which seems odd. Also, why didn’t the Fantastic Four get involved - it could have been a public relations coup for them!

In this issue:

Scientist after scientist defect to the USSR, and no one can figure out why. Dr. Donald Blake, mild mannered doctor volunteers to work with Army intelligence to act as bait. His plan? Proclaim to the world that he has invented a new biowarfare weapon. The plan works, and he is kidnapped by a Soviet agent and stolen away to the USSR. There, he meets with the other US scientists, who were similarly kidnapped. Fortunately for all concerned, Dr. Blake is also the mighty Thor, god of thunder. Blake transforms into Thor, busts the scientists out, and in a strange bid to preserve his secret identity, returns to his Blake form so that he can make his way back to the west with the other scientists.

Assumed before the next episode:

The public is rightly worried about the number of Russian spies on American soil.

This episode takes place:

After the scientists have safely travelled by plane, train, and automobile back to America.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss how the Fantastic Four, inventors of flying cars and indestructible clothing, went bankrupt because Mr. Fantastic was playing with the stock market. What does this say about the viability of superheroes, and their independence?

In this issue:

Namor the Submariner is watching TV underwater when he hears the news rocketing around the world - the Fantastic Four are bankrupt! It turns out that Reed Richards was playing with the stock market and lost all of their money. The Fantastic Four lose all of Reed’s amazing inventions, and the future of the team is in doubt. But then, fortune shines on the Four - they receive an offer to star in a movie for an incredible amount of money. The team readily packs up for Hollywood to shoot the film and earn enough money to return to the adventuring life. Once there, they find out that none other than Namor the Submariner, their kinda enemy, is financing the movie. They nonetheless continue with the project, with Namor hitting on Sue Storm while trying to incapacitate the other three. Sue rejects Namor and, along with the rest of the team, teaches Namor a lesson. The movie ends up being finished - and it’s a hit!

Assumed before the next episode:

The world marvels at seeing the Fantastic Four in a movie, exhibiting their amazing powers and forever relegating traditional special effects to B movie status.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four emerge from bankruptcy in the greatest movie of all time.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest criminal to go up against Ant Man - the Protector. Another engineering genius who breaks bad to prove himself against a superpowered hero? Does this prove the point we made in the last episode?

In this issue:

A small jewelry store owner mutters to himself that the Protector is robbing his store. Ant-Man, who is spying on the entire city through his network of ants, jumps in to help the store owner. He basically sets up a fake robbery, which leads to him battling the Protector, who appears to be a super-strong giant. He eventually discovers that the Protector is actually the small jewelry store owner who was running an insurance scheme and robbing other stores too. You would think that a 60 year old engineering genius would come up with a better use for an amazing exoskeleton than to commit insurance fraud and knock over small businesses. Crime does not pay, and yet another genius goes to jail. Meanwhile, Ant-Man, another science genius, feels pretty good about himself.

Assumed before the next episode:

The police are becoming overly reliant on the services of the masked vigilante, Ant-Man.

This episode takes place:

After the world has been deprived of a criminal genius who became the victim of his own hubris and ambition.

In this episode:

In one of their most important episodes, Mike and Ed discuss what drives the smartest and most accomplished man in the world to throw it all away on a vendetta against teenage superhero Human Torch. Is something larger going on with the psychological effects on regular humans due to the existence of superpowered humans, gods, and monsters?

In this issue:

Bentley (“the Wizard”) Whitman is a world regarded genius inventor who decides that he has to match up with the Human Torch as a test of his greatness. He stages a calamity requiring the Torch to rescue him and, after being rescued and showing the Torch around his house, captures him.

The Wizard then impersonates the Human Torch, attempts a brazen midday robbery, and releases prisoners from the state prison.

The Torch escapes from his cell and confronts the Wizard. 

The Wizard has photos proving that the Torch is innocent, and dangles them in front of him. He dares the Torch to fight him to get the photos out of his hand, and thereby reveal his secret identity. Rather than do that, the Torch floats the photos from the Wizard’s hands, defeating him. The Wizard is then taken into custody.

We then learn that Sue Storm, the Invisible Girl, assisted her brother by taking the photos from the Wizard’s hands, fooling him into thinking the Human Torch had another mysterious ability.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world is shocked that the Wizard broke bad… and why.

This episode takes place:

After the world has learned that the Wizard threw it all away to match wits with a teenager who can light himself on fire.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the implications of Thor going public with his role in the US military. Why is the Norwegian God of Thunder working so closely with American interests?

In this issue:

The issue opens three centuries in the future. The Earth is a peaceful utopia, and everyone is happy with life other than mad scientist Zarrko, who decides to build a time machine and return to 1962, where he can steal a nuclear bomb. He arrives at a test site in 1962 where Thor is allowing the US military to test bombs on him. Zarrko steals a bomb and returns to the 23rd century. Thor follows him into the future after he MacGyvers his magic hammer into a time machine. By the time Thor arrives in the future, Zarrko is already the despotic ruler of Earth. Thor battles his way through various obstacles that Zarrko sets in his path but eventually emerges victorious, defeating Zarrko, recovering the nuclear bomb that Zarrko had stolen, and returning back to 1962 so that he can continue helping the military test weapons.

Assumed before the next episode:

The military continues to test weapons on Thor.

This episode takes place:

After the public learns that Thor is helping the US military test weapons.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the fake alien who was actually a robot. The press says that the Hulk somehow created the fake alien to boost his popularity. Uh, are we missing something here? I thought the Hulk was a rampaging monster, not a super-genius capable of building a robot! This does not add up…

In this issue:

Bruce Banner is missing to the world at large. Rick Jones is questioned by the Army about his disappearance. Meanwhile, the Hulk, freed from Rick’s mental control, flies around, saves a bus full of children, and disrupts a film set.

Rick and the Hulk are reunited. Rick finishes an experiment that Bruce had set up to allow Bruce control over his transformations into the Hulk. The experiment is a success, and Bruce’s personality is maintained while he is the Hulk, although he is angrier and crueler.

A spaceship then appears, and an alien named Mongu emerges. He issues a challenge to Earth’s mightiest champion to meet him in combat. Bruce transforms into the Hulk and confronts Mongu, who is revealed to me a robot created by the Russians as a ruse to kidnap the Hulk and taken him back to their country to analyze so that their scientists can build an army of warriors like him. The Hulk defeats the Russians and escapes.

The Army appears at the battle site, but the Hulk and the Russians are gone. The Army concludes that the Hulk must have created the Mongu robot in an attempt to generate publicity, and the newspaper reports the Hulk’s apparent hoax.

Assumed before the next episode:

Everyone is wondering - is the Hulk actually smart? And is that better or worse than a dumb Hulk?

This episode takes place:

After the media report the Hulk’s alleged hoax.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the disappearance of Bruce Banner. Has he been kidnapped by the Soviets? Or are aliens involved? Finding Bruce Banner should be the world’s #1 priority given how he recently saved the world from an alien invasion.

In this issue:

Bruce Banner is missing to the world at large. Rick Jones is questioned by the Army about his disappearance. Meanwhile, the Hulk, freed from Rick’s mental control, flies around, saves a bus full of children, and disrupts a film set.

Rick and the Hulk are reunited. Rick finishes an experiment that Bruce had set up to allow Bruce control over his transformations into the Hulk. The experiment is a success, and Bruce’s personality is maintained while he is the Hulk, although he is angrier and crueler.

A spaceship then appears, and an alien named Mongu emerges. He issues a challenge to Earth’s mightiest champion to meet him in combat. Bruce transforms into the Hulk and confronts Mongu, who is revealed to me a robot created by the Russians as a ruse to kidnap the Hulk and taken him back to their country to analyze so that their scientists can build an army of warriors like him. The Hulk defeats the Russians and escapes.

The Army appears at the battle site, but the Hulk and the Russians are gone. The Army concludes that the Hulk must have created the Mongu robot in an attempt to generate publicity, and the newspaper reports the Hulk’s apparent hoax.

Assumed before the next episode:

The world frets as they await word on Bruce Banner’s safe return.

This episode takes place:

After Bruce Banner goes missing, and as public opinion on the Hulk continues to sour.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the “Puppet Master” - a villain who has the ability to control people’s minds (including a prison warden, and the Fantastic Four themselves) through his creepily realistic puppets. What are the implications of people not being in control of their bodies? Will this become a standard criminal defense? How can we know when someone is being mind-controlled? Is our political system at risk?

In this issue:

The Puppet Master is able to sculpt puppets of people and assume total control of them. He takes control of the Thing and kidnaps the Invisible Girl. The Thing is freed when he is turned back to a human temporarily with a potion that Mr. Fantastic had created. The three are then able to rescue the Invisible Girl from the Puppet Master’s lair, as the Puppet Master flees on a flying mechanical horse.

The Puppet Master has also taken control of the state prison warden and had him release all of the prisoners. The Fantastic Four put the riot down and restore order. They race back to the Puppet Master to confront him, but it is too late - he has already tripped and fallen out his apartment window, falling to his death on the street below.

This issue is also notable for introducing the Puppet Master’s blind stepdaughter Alicia Masters, an innocent drawn into her stepfather’s schemes and someone who will play a larger role in the Fantastic Four in the years to come.

Assumed before the next episode:

Lawyers are trying to figure out how best to apply the mind control defence. The rest of the public is wondering when things will return to normal - and whether they can trust those in authority, never mind each other.

This episode takes place:

After the public has learned of the prison breakout and the role that mind control played in it.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest superpowered individual. What are his powers, exactly? Where are these powers coming from? And what is his motivation for doing the job that police officers are paid to do?

In this issue:

Ant-Man seems to be everywhere. The issue opens up with him rescuing thieves who have locked themselves in a bank vault during a botched robbery. Thousands of miles away, the leader of the USSR decides to send “Comrade X” to capture Ant-Man and learn how he is able to change his size so that his troops will be able to take over the world. We return to the US where a young woman visits the police asking to be put in touch with Ant-Man. They don’t know what to tell her - Ant-Man just shows up when he is needed. We, the reader, learn that Ant-Man communicates through ants throughout the city, and when someone mutters “Ant-Man”, he knows he is needed.

Anyway, Ant-Man visits the young woman, who warns him that Comrade X is in America and intent on capturing him. Ant-Man heads off to confront Comrade X, easily dispatching his goons with the help of thousands of ants before confronting Comrade X, who turns out to be the young woman. It turns out she was Comrade X all along, disguised as a man. The Coast Guard shows up to take custody of the Russian spy as Ant-Man moseys away on an ant.

Assumed before the next episode:

The West is reeling once again to learn of yet another Russian spy on American soil.

This episode takes place:

After Comrade X has been arrested and the public have learned of the existence of another Russian spy.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the news of another Human Torch (who must be Johnny Storm), and perhaps more importantly, how a Russian submarine was spying off the East Coast.

In this issue:

Johnny Storm moves to the town of Glenville with his sister, Sue Storm. He convinces himself that no one will put it together that Johnny Storm, brother of the Invisible Girl, is not Johnny Storm, the Human Torch and a teammate of his sister’s in the Fantastic Four. Oh, Johnny.

Meanwhile, someone in a green and yellow costume who calls himself the Destroyer decides to, well, destroy the amusement park that is nearing completion in the small town of Glenville. The Destroyer sends a ransom-style note to the publisher of the Glenville newspaper demanding the town cease construction of the amusement park. The publisher ignores the warning, and the next day, a man who decided to wear a suit on a roller coaster is in grave danger as the track his cart is riding on breaks mid-ride. Fortunately, Johnny Storm happens to see the tragedy unfold. He quickly flames on and flies into action as the Human Torch (seriously, how is Johnny convincing himself no one knows he is the Torch?) and rescues the suit clad stranger from certain death.

More notes are sent to the publisher of the town paper, and they continue to be ignored by the publisher. True to his word, the Destroyer causes the foundation of another roller coaster to fracture, and Johnny Storm again leaps into action to save the day.

Clearly frustrated that he cannot live up to his name, the Destroyer issues a challenge in the local paper to the Human Torch. The Thing shows up and gives a terrible pep talk to his young teammate. Undettered, the Human Torch confronts the Destroyer, who easily defeats the Torch by dousing his flame. Johnny narrowly escapes, and he investigates further. He flies to the top of the roller coaster and sees a Russian submarine off the coast. He forces the sub to breach, and the Russian spies are arrested. Johnny figures out that the Destroyer is in league with the Russians and confronts him. The Destroyer is revealed to be none other than the publisher of the local paper, who was trying to keep the amusement park from being finished because it would interfere with his ability to smuggle information to the Russian spies off the coast, as the latest roller coaster was high enough to see the sub off the coast. The publisher, as the Destroyer, was sending threatening notes to his own newspaper to prevent the roller coaster from being completed.

And with that, the Human Torch, who everyone has to know is Johnny Storm, has defended American democracy.

Assumed before the next episode:

The West is reeling from the news that the USSR had a spy submarine off the East Coast.

This episode takes place:

After the public has learned of the USSR spy mission off the East Coast, and have learned that they have Johnny Storm to thank for protecting their country.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss if we should “update our priors” based on a second superpowered individual who appears to be based on Norse Mythology.

In this issue:

The issue begins in Asgard, with Loki recounting how he ended up imprisoned in a tree. He finagles his escape and immediately heads to New York City to take revenge on his brother, Thor, who is entertaining children in the hospital and otherwise being a pretty decent guy/god. In order to get Thor’s attention, Loki disfigures people. Thor races to their aid as Loki had planned, and returns the people to normal. The brothers eventually fight, in full view of the city dwellers, with Loki showing his deviousness and Thor his bravery and strength. Loki, realizing the battle is lost, tries to escape on a winged horse, although Thor is able to catch him. Thor then ties Loki to his enchanted hammer Mjolnir and hurtles them both back to Asgard. And with that, the city is saved!

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to question whether gods are real, as they have now seen two gods from Norse mythology continue their eternal struggle in front of them.

This episode takes place:

After the city has been rescued by Thor, and Loki has been returned to Asgard.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Reed’s claim that the mass mind control event that shook America was the work of aliens, and that his team travelled to an alien star system and back in a matter of days. Also: who owns the space ship that the Fantastic Four returned in?

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four travel to Planet X, and they get to work trying to save the people of Planet X. Reed develops a reducing gas which will shrink all of the inhabitants so that they will fit on the two spaceships and avoid extinction. Once they are safely on another planet, they will be returned to form with an enlarging gas that Reed has developed. The people are all shrunk and escape on one ship. All except for Kurggo, who took possession of the enlarging gas and was intent on using it only for himself so that he will be able to maintain control over the people. He somehow missed getting onto the ship. It turns out that there was actually no enlarging gas - Reed had lied about it.

The Fantastic Four then return home, the new owners of a spaceship capable of travelling well beyond the speed of light.

Assumed before the next episode:

Reed explains that the mass hatred was due to aliens, that the Fantastic Four traveled to the alien home world and “solved the problem,” and returned with a space ship. He also explained that the journey to the planet only took a few hours.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four returned to Earth and explained what happened.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the mass mind control that has happened across the east coast. Also, the Fantastic Four appear to be missing. How are they involved?

In this issue:

The people of Planet X are highly advanced, far beyond that of the people of Earth. Their ruler, Kurggo, is bitter that, despite their advancement, they are going to be destroyed by a runaway asteroid. They only have two spaceships, which not enough to evacuate the planet. Kurggo decides to send an anthropomorphic robot in one of their ships to Earth to capture the Fantastic Four, whom Kurggo believes are the only people in the universe who can help them.

Rather than ask for their help, Kurggo’s plan involves an anger ray which gets everyone mad at each other, but especially the Fantastic Four. The attendees at a government dinner in their owner turn on the Fantastic Four, causing them to flee. Kurggo’s robot then catches up to the Four and delivers Kurggo’s message, which is more or less that his anger ray has turned the world against them, and as such they may as well come to Planet X to help them avoid extinction.

The Fantastic Four leave, and everyone’s anger subsides. Will they return? Time will tell.

Assumed before the next episode:

The people of New York City to Washington were inexplicably mad at each other, but especially at the Fantastic Four, but do not know why. They also do not know why the Fantastic Four left them.

This episode takes place:

After the mass hatred has subsided and the Fantastic Four have left Planet X, but before they have returned to Earth.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the latest super powered individual to appear: The Mighty Thor! The duo debate whether he is tied to Norse mythology or whether the name is just a gimmick. Also: is Thor working with the US government to prevent Communist intrusions into western countries?

In this issue:

This is Thor’s second appearance. He first appeared in Journey into Mystery #83, which for background, was a tale about aliens made of rock landing in Norway intent on taking the Earth over. We are introduced to Dr. Donald Blake in this issue, who was vacationing in Norway at the time. Dr. Blake stumbled across a cave and found a nailed wooden stick that, when struck on the ground transformed the stick into a war hammer (which we come to know as Mjolnir) and Dr. Blake into the legendary God of Thunder, Thor. Blake/Thor learned that he transforms from Thor back to Blake if he is away from his hammer for more than 60 seconds. Thor defeats the aliens and, returned to the form of Dr. Donald Blake, returns to America.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are wondering if Thor is truly the Norse god of myth, or just a bleached blond musclebound self-promoter with a fancy hammer.

This episode takes place:

After the events in the issue, including Thor’s appearance and the regime change in San Diablo, have been reported.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss another superpowered individual who can control minds - this time in New Mexico and across the midwest.

In this issue:

Bruce Banner and Rick Jones come up with a way to keep the Hulk locked away. The Army, however, are on the lookout for the Hulk. General Ross tells Rick they need the Hulk to test a new missile. This is a lie, as they just want to shoot the Hulk into space. Rick falls for this ruse, lets the Hulk out, and leads the Hulk into the missile, which shoots into space. The Hulk turns back to Bruce Banner and is bombarded with radiation which appears to permanently turn him into the Hulk (rather than just turn him into the Hulk when the sun goes down). The Hulk is, ironically, an even greater menace due to General Ross’s intervention.

Meanwhile, Rick learns that he had been tricked. The Hulk returns to Earth, and blames Rick for being shot into space. Rick realizes he can control the Hulk mentally, provided he is awake (another side effect of the space radiation on the Hulk). When he is asleep, the Hulk rampages through town. Rick returns to locking the Hulk away.

Assumed before the next issue:

The Hulk is now a mindless monster who can only be controlled by Rick Jones. This gives the Army, the police, and the public even more reason to fear him.

This episode takes place:

A few days after the events in the issue, when people hypnotized by the Ringmaster have been interviewed and the military has made statements as to what happened with respect to the capture of the Ringmaster and escape of the Hulk.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the second attack on the Baxter Building by Dr. Doom. How do the other residents feel about their home being taken into space? And what will this do to Manhattan real estate prices?

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four’s secondary superpower must be the ability to generate goodwill through self-promotion. They’re visiting children in the hospital and otherwise building up goodwill amongst a population that is overwhelmingly accepting of them and their adventures, despite the apparent threat they pose by having their headquarters in downtown New York City.

Case in point: Dr. Doom approaches Namor the Submariner and convinces him to team up against the Fantastic Four. Doom shows Namor a new device that can attach to anything and, using magnetism, carry that thing anywhere. The plan is to have Namor plant the device inside the Baxter Building (the FF’s headquarters) in downtown NYC, and then Doom will carry the building away. Namor successfully plants the device and misleads the Four long enough for Doom to pull the building into space before they could really figure out what happened.

The Baxter Building does not break apart as it is being pulled up and away from the Earth’s atmosphere. No word on how the other tenants of the Baxter Building feel about this development.

Doom then prepares to kill the Fantastic Four AND his ally, Namor (Doom is concerned that Namor would be a challenge to his ambition to rule the world). Fortunately, Namor switches sides and defeats Doom, shooting him off into space on a meteor for “eternity”. The Baxter Building is then returned to Earth, unharmed, Namor returns to the sea.

Assumed before the next issue:

Reed Richards explains to the world that Dr. Doom took their building into space, that Namor saved them all, and that the threat of Dr. Doom has been eliminated, as he is now hurtling through space forever.

This episode takes place:

Immediately after Reed Richards explains how Dr. Doom was defeated, but likely before anyone has figured out how the Baxter Building was lifted off its foundation and returned without incident.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed take a break from the weighty issues to discuss Spider-Man’s appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show. There is clearly more to superpowered people than fighting monsters - sometimes they can just awe and entertain us.

In this issue:

High school student Peter Parker is bitten by a radioactive spider and, rather than getting sick with radiation poisoning, is gifted with superpowers - super strength, the ability to climb walls, and a “spider sense” which warns him of danger.

As luck would have it, Peter is also a super genius. He uses his engineering skills to design and build “webshooters”, which shoot super strong webbing that allows him to swing from building to building - just like a spider can.

Now, while you may assume that Peter would use his incredible powers to fight crime, you would be mistaken. Instead, Peter dazzles the world with his amazing abilities, all while masked as the “Amazing Spider-Man!” He sells out shows on Broadway and is on all of the talk shows, leading to rumours that this “Spectacular Spider-Man” will get his own TV show.

But that is not to be, as fate deals Peter a different hand. Peter has the opportunity to stop a robber who is escaping, but he chooses to not get involved and lets the robber escape. The robber races away and, in another twist of fate, ends up killing Peter’s beloved Uncle Ben. Peter, as Spider-Man, tracks the murderer down and, when he realizes it was the same man whom he had allowed to go free earlier, decides that he has made the wrong choices in his life. He decides then and there to give up being a famous entertainer, and dedicates his life to helping others, honouring the words his uncle lived by that “with great power comes great responsibility”.

Assumed before the next issue:

The public are just about to be disappointed that Spider-Man has retired from the entertainment business.

This episode takes place:

During the height of Spider-Man’s fame as an entertainer. Parker has just appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show, and he is a star on the rise.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the alien invasion. Is it a coincidence that an alien invasion has happened so close to the advent of human super powers? Did something the Fantastic Four do alert aliens to our presence? We also wonder why it was Bruce Banner who came to humankind’s rescue and not Reed Richards and his super powered crew.

In this issue:

Bruce Banner and his teenage sidekick Rick Jones think they have one problem on their hands: Banner turns into an angry, marauding Hulk at night. They figure out the best way to deal with the Hulk is to lock Banner in an underground cell before he can transform into the personification of his id.

It turns out they have a second problem. The alien race known as the Toad Men kidnap Banner for some unknown reason. Unfortunately for them, he transforms into the Hulk on their ship, who fights the aliens and defeats them. The U.S. military then shoots the alien ship down, causing it to crash to Earth. The incredible, and indestructible, Hulk is the only one to survive, although he transforms back to Banner on Earth and is arrested by the military for treason on the assumption he was helping the aliens.

Undeterred, the Toad Men begin their invasion of earth. Their fleet of ships blankets the sky, and their leader issues an ultimatum on Earth’s airwaves: Surrender, or we will destroy your planet with our magnetic powers. In a show of tremendous force, the aliens knock the moon out of its orbit, causing the seas to rise and buildings to crumble. Eternally unreasonable General Ross refuses to surrender. [Side note: it is unclear how Ross is the world’s decision maker.]

Meanwhile, Banner transforms into the Hulk while in captivity and escapes. He reverts to Banner the next morning. Banner then defeats the aliens by using his “gamma ray” gun to reverse the polarity of their magnetic powers, which returns the moon to its orbit and sends the entire alien fleet “spinning across space, out of control forever”. Banner is hailed as a hero, and for good reason, for it was not the Hulk and his brute force that saved the day, but rather Banner and his big brain (and even bigger gamma ray gun).

Assumed before the next episode:

Banner is now a world famous and beloved scientist for saving the planet from the alien invasion.

This episode takes place:

After the brief period of worldwide devastation caused by the Toad Men, after Banner has saved the world with his gamma ray gun, and while Banner is enjoying life as the saviour of mankind.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Victor Von Doom and his attack on the Fantastic Four on American soil. How will the U.S. respond to this unprovoked attack by a foreign power (Doom is leader of Latveria)? Does Latveria have leverage we do not know about?

In this issue:

Evil genius Victor Von Doom - who despite having been expelled form university nonetheless goes by “Dr. Doom” - decides to show the world his might and power by defeating the Fantastic Four. He does this relatively easily by throwing a net over their skyscraper and kidnapping the Four, flying them in an unnaturally fast helicopter to his castle in Europe. While there, Doom explains to the team that he has invented a time machine, and that he wants Mr. Fantastic, the Thing, and the Human Torch to go back in time to rob the treasure of the notorious pirate Blackbeard (all while holding the Invisible Girl hostage).

[Sidebar: there must be better ways to use a time machine.]

The three go back in time and, while disguised as a pirate and enjoying the drama of it all, the Thing actually creates the identity of Blackbeard. As Mr. Fantastic notes, the Thing “came back to the past to find…. himself!” The three find “Blackbeard’s” treasure - mainly gems - and Mr. Fantastic decides that it is too dangerous to allow Doom to get his hands on the gems. Doom brings the three back to the present and is disappointed that they did not bring the gems back with them. He reveals to the team that the treasure was originally the property of Merlin the ancient magician, and that he was going to use the gems to become invincible (turns out Reed was right on the money on this one). A fight ensues, and Doom escapes. The Fantastic Four devote themselves to tracking down their two nemeses, the Submariner and Dr. Doom.

[Submariner and Dr. Doom are still at large 60 years later.]

Assumed before the next issue:

Reed Richards explains to the public that they were captured by Dr. Doom, but that they escaped. He does not provide many details, and in particular he fails to mention that an evil genius has a working time machine or that the Thing is part of a time paradox involving the legend of Blackbeard.

This episode takes place:

After the Fantastic Four returns from their confrontation with Dr. Doom.

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the kidnapping of the famous scientist Bruce Banner by the Soviets. He claims he was kidnapped by a super-powered Russian called “The Gargoyle”. How many more super-powered individuals are out there, and are the Soviets ahead of us? Also, Banner claims he was able to reverse the Gargoyle’s super powers. Could he do the same for Ben Grimm?

In this issue:

World famous scientist Bruce Banner has invented a new weapon for the military, the gamma bomb. After telling a fellow scientist “I don’t make errors”, Banner makes a big one by allowing the test to proceed while a teenager drives onto the testing area. Banner springs into action, telling his fellow scientist Igor to stop the countdown as he races to save the teenager. This turns out to be Banner’s second ever error, as Igor is a secret Russian spy who decides to let the countdown continue.

Banner is able to get the teenager, Rick Jones, to safety, although he is not so fortunate. The gamma bomb detonates, and Banner is “bathed in the full force of the mysterious gamma rays” of the gamma bomb. He awakens in a f