By Ian Morgan Cron

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 Jul 1, 2019


Who are we? Why do we act, think and feel the way we do? How can we become our best, most authentic selves? Welcome to Typology, a podcast that explores the mystery of the human personality and how we can use the Enneagram typing system as a tool to become our best, most authentic selves. Hosted by author, speaker and counselor, Ian Morgan Cron, Typology features interviews with thought leaders from every sphere of life, including renowned Enneagram authors and teachers, psychologists, theologians, artists, business leaders, neuroscientists, philosophers, and more. In other words, we’ll be talking with people who are trying to become the best version of themselves in the world.

Episode Date
Recovering Your Authentic Self feat. Holly Hayes [S04-046]

Today, Holly Hayes, award-winning author, founder and CEO of Sanctuary Project, and Enneagram 3 joins me to explore the Enneagram as it relates to healing and recovery, how understanding your stress and security points can help identify your type, and the work required to reconnect with your authentic self.

It’s a powerful reminder that we all need a safe place to take off our masks and get back in touch with who we are meant to be.

May 06, 2021
Let's Talk Enneagram 1 w/Beatrice Chestnut [S04-045]

Enneagram Ones value principles and integrity and are driven by the need to be good. They are conscientious and ethical and self-controlled.

But as with all types, when you dig into subtypes and instincts you’ll see three different versions of the Improvers personality that look and behave differently.

Today, Beatrice Chestnut and I dive into:

  • The importance of being familiar with your passion and how to recognize when it’s taken the wheel

  • What each subtype looks like and why knowing yours is critical

  • How the growth path differs for each subtype of type one


Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. 

Apr 29, 2021
A Framework for Wholeness w/Seth Abram (Enneagram 9) [S04-044]

I know many of you are looking forward to today’s show and I’m thrilled to share this rich conversation with Enneagram Nine, Seth Abram. Seth is a long-time friend, pastor, singer, songwriter, creator and founder of Integrated Enneagram, and co-host of the popular Enneagram podcast, Fathoms. 

Seth not only shares his wealth of knowledge about the work that is needed to become the fullest expression of our true selves but also provides insight into learning to recognize and embrace the role that anger plays in the transformational path for an Enneagram 9.   

In this episode we discuss the: 

  • Fear and passion of the Peacemaker
  • Tension of the polarity of wings on type
  • Recognizing and growing into right action

Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player, then share your thoughts with us on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter.

Apr 22, 2021
David Nurse on Optimizing Your Potential with the Enneagram [S04-043]

Today’s guest, NBA Life Optimization Coach and former professional basketball player, David Nurse joins me to talk about the importance of self-awareness and the role it plays in leading others and optimizing your potential.  David also shares how making small pivots to look at things from a slightly different perspective can open up your entire perspective and lead to life-giving changes.

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • Where types go in health and in stress
  • The importance of a positive mindset 
  • How self-awareness impacts leadership and personal performance
Apr 15, 2021
Let's Talk Enneagram 6 with Beatrice Chestnut [S04-042]

In general, Enneagram Sixes focus on scanning for threats and risks, being prepared in case the worst happens, and predicting and anticipating what might happen next so they can be ready to meet whatever challenge occurs. 

But, when you get into their subtypes...they can look and behave pretty differently. 

I dive into this in-depth today with Enneagram guru, Beatrice Chestnut. 

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • What a passion is and why it’s so important to know yours
  • What each subtype looks like and why knowing yours is critical
  • How the growth path differs for each subtype 

Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. 


Apr 08, 2021
The Enneagram in Business [S04-041]

What are the benefits of using the Enneagram in the corporate space? The Enneagram helps grow self-awareness and self-knowledge among team members and executives in order to create a richer, more productive, more profitable environment that is also filled with joy, compassion and empathy.  When applied properly, it really gets under the waterline of consciousness and illuminates why you do what you do and can help you understand how you show up in the workplace. 

In this special episode, business experts Scott Allender, Karen J. Hardwick, and Chris Carneal join me for a free-wheeling conversation about the benefits of applying the Enneagram in the workplace.

Apr 01, 2021
The Holderness Family Rules of Engagement and the Enneagram (S04-040)

Everybody fights, so why not get better at it?  But how?  

One of the great things about the Enneagram is it’s a wonderful tool for improving communication between friends, family, spouses, and even coworkers. It fosters the self-awareness needed to be able to disagree better, love more, and maintain healthy relationships along the way.

Best-known for their hit parodies on social media, husband-wife duo Kim and Penn Holderness share their tips for communicating, talk about the rules of engagement for arguments, and explore their strengths and weaknesses through the lens of the Enneagram.

Mar 25, 2021
Jonathan Pitts' Journey Through Grief [S04-039]

Each of us digests or metabolizes grief in separate ways. It's important to understand how differently people grieve and allow others the space to grieve in the way that is appropriate to their architecture.

Author, speaker, and executive pastor at Church of the City, Jonathan Pitts shares his journey through grieving the unexpected loss of his wife, learning to carve out space for joy, and finding beauty in the small things.

Mar 18, 2021
Journey Into the Heart of the Enneagram Two with Beatrice Chestnut (S04-038)

Relationships are extremely important to Enneagram Twos.  They are the most interpersonal number on the Enneagram.  They are other referencing -- focusing their attention outside of themselves.  But when you mix the passion of the Two (pride) with their subtypes, Enneagram Twos not only present in very different ways but their transformational path also varies.    

Psychotherapist, coach, business consultant and Enneagram guru Beatrice Chestnut walks us through the heart of the Befriender and provides insights into the growth path for each subtype. 

So, if you’re a Two, if you love a Two, or if you’re in conflict with a Two, listen through the end of this episode with an open heart and take note of what all Twos share in common and where they differ. 

Mar 11, 2021
MercyMe's Bart Millard Explores the Inner Workings of the Enneagram 6 [S04-037]

The journey of self-understanding isn’t easy. Each of us are deep, mysterious, and complex beings who don’t fit into one specific box.  Those complexities can sometimes make the process of uncovering your true self difficult. Today’s guest thought he was an Enneagram Seven for a long time but when he realized he was actually a dominant Six with a heavy Seven wing things changed. 

Front man of the award-winning Chrisitan group, MercyMe, Bart Millard joins me for a great conversation about the complexities of personality and how fear plays into his daily life. 

In this episode, we discuss:

  • what let Bart to conclude his core type is a Six
  • the strong influence wings can have on your core type
  • the difference between about counter phobic and phobic sixes

Tune in to hear our conversation and learn more about the inner workings of an Enneagram Six.

Mar 04, 2021
Hip-Hop Artist Lecrae's Restoration through Authenticity [S04-036]

We’ve got another great interview today.  An entrepreneur, actor, musician, singer-songwriter, and music executive...hip-hop artist Lecrae joins me in a personal conversation about shame and grief.  We get really honest about his life, where he came from, what influenced his Threeness, a real identity crisis that he hit at the height of his fame, and what role therapy has played in his healing and restoration.  

Feb 25, 2021
How Hidden Beliefs Impacted Toni and Carey Nieuwhof's Marriage [S04-035]

What mud do you bring into your relationships?  Though we’re often unaware of them until we can no longer ignore them, each of us carries hidden beliefs adopted in childhood into every relationship. And until we bring that mud, those self-limiting beliefs, to the surface they’re going to work against us as adults. 

This week, Toni and Carey Nieuwhof, join me to talk about the unconscious messages that impacted their relationship, identify the seven core issues that tend to take out marriages, and share what they learned while working through their “messy middle.”  

Feb 18, 2021
Audrey Assad Embodies the Intuitive Wisdom of an Enneagram 9 (S04-034)

Enneagram Nines have an innate ability to foster peace with those around them.  With their intuitive wisdom and great skill in listening to differences and understanding multiple perspectives, Nines seem to have a leg up on the rest of us when it comes to spirituality. 

Artist and multiple Dove award nominee, Audrey Assad beautifully gives us an honest look into the importance of spiritual community, embracing shadow work, and manifesting a non-anxious presence.

Listen through to the end as Audrey also offers a few great tips for Nines.

Feb 11, 2021
Jordan Lee Dooley Owns Her Complex Emotions (Enneagram 3) [S04-033

How do you do the things within your control without falling under the illusion that you are in control?  Control is a big theme in all of our lives...it just shows up in different ways. No matter your type, we all try to control others with the suite of behaviors that go with our type.  In fact, we train people to respond to us and interact with us in a certain way based on our type.

So, how does an Enneagram 3 respond when faced with something they can’t do -- something that’s out of their control?  

National bestselling author, speaker, founder/CEO of the Own It Academy, and host of SHE, a top-rated podcast for women, Jordan Lee Dooley opens up about one of her most challenging struggles, how she is responding to the complex emotions surrounding grief, and learning to let go of the things she can’t control.

We love it when our guests get vulnerable because it reminds us that we are not alone. And, you are not alone.

Feb 04, 2021
Morgan Harper Nichols Illustrates the Beauty in Connection

As we navigate the current climate it’s easy to become disconnected. But as humans, we’re actually wired for connection.  We must look for opportunities to connect with each other.  Connection is fuel for the soul.

And who better to explain the beauty of connection, of togetherness, than Morgan Harper Nichols. For Enneagram Fives who may already isolate, and be comfortable there, Morgan’s words illuminate the importance and the challenge of balancing that space and connection.

Morgan Harper Nichols is an artist and poet whose work is inspired by real-life interactions and stories. Morgan spent the first couple of years of her professional life as a college admission counselor, and then, as a full-time touring singer-songwriter and musician. It was on the road that she cultivated her curiosity and passion for writing, art, and design and slowly began to share her work online.

Jan 28, 2021
Aura Bora Founders, Maddie and Paul Voge on the Power of the Enneagram in their Marriage and Work (Enneagram 9 and 7) [S04-031]

I often get emails from our listeners asking how the Enneagram can help their marriage.  And usually, the email is asking for advice on a specific type-combination.  That can be difficult to answer because there are so many variants with the Enneagram.

But, when you understand the Enneagram--and not just your own type--it can be an invaluable tool for communication and support in any relationship, in any type-combination.

Today, we’ve got a young couple joining us to talk about how the Enneagram allows them to help each other do ‘work’ within their own type. 

Our special guests, Maddie and Paul Voge, owners of the sparkling water line, Aura Bora, share:  

  • What a relationship between a 7 and a 9 is like
  • Where their types go in stress, and
  • How the Enneagram helps them manage extreme stress

Listen in for some great Enneagram insights then set a reminder to watch Shark Tank on Friday, January 22nd to find out whether they “got a deal.”

Jan 21, 2021
Chris Cook on Finding Your True Self After Trauma (Enneagram 1) [S04-030]

I’m often asked how trauma affects your Enneagram type.  The answer is: it’s complicated. 

Trauma is the result of an extraordinarily stressful event that shatters your sense of security and safety and makes you feel isolated and helpless in the world.  It can be a one-time event or ongoing, complex trauma.  Your response to trauma largely determines the type toward which you gravitate as a little child as a way of coping in the world.

In today’s episode, Chris Cook opens up about his childhood trauma and how healing his broken spirit exposed his true self.  We also dig into unconscious motivations, subtypes, and the inner critic.  You don’t want to miss this in-depth conversation.

Christopher Cook believes people should be able to live successful, meaningful lives, far above the status quo of “just getting by.” Put simply, he believes people should be able to win today. He exercises this belief as a leadership coach and business consultant to both Fortune 1000 and non-profit organizations. Additionally, he is the host of “Win Today with Christopher Cook,” a weekly podcast available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, and most other outlets. Through his work at WINTODAY.tv and as a featured writer for SUCCESS Magazine, he serves as a guide to wellness-minded men and women who are eager to confidently design their roadmap to wholeness and show up each day fully-alive in their true identity.

Jan 14, 2021
Dr. Sasha Shillcutt: Empowerment through the Enneagram (Type 8) [S04-029]

We often think of Enneagram Eights as powerful, charismatic, and natural leaders.  They make great mentors with an uncanny ability to inspire and uplift people. 

Our guest today is a wonderful example of a healthy Eight leader who understands how to balance the power of her personality with self-restraint and vulnerability while motivating others.   Dr. Sasha Shillcutt shares what drives her as an Eight, how she’s managed the past year of the pandemic, and why it’s important for her to empower other women to live life “brave enough.” 

In this episode, we hope you will discover:

  • When and where to lean into the 7 wing or the 9 wing of an Enneagram Eight
  • Enneagram Eight subtypes and how they show up differently in the world
  • A few tips for mitigating the passion (lust) of the Eight



Sasha K. Shillcutt, MD, MS, FASE is a renowned cardiac anesthesiologist, Tenured Professor and the Vice-Chair of Strategy and Innovation in the Department of Anesthesiology at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC). Sasha is also a wife, mother, well-published gender-equity researcher, and Founder of Brave Enough, where she leads over 12,000 female physicians. She teaches professional women resilience, self-care, and negotiation through events, retreats, and courses.

Sasha speaks frequently to executives and companies on the topics of professional burnout, resilience and gender equity and has a featured TEDX Talk on Resilience: The Art of Failing Forward. Her writing has been published in both the New England Journal of Medicine and JAMA. Her book, Between Grit and Grace, and podcast, The Brave Enough Show, elevate women to lead authentic and empowered lives.

Jan 07, 2021
REPLAY: Lisa-Jo Baker Sets Boundaries as an Enneagram Two (S04-028)
At their best, Enneagram Twos truly radiate the unconditional, altruistic love of God. They just sort of signal love out into the world in a way that no other type can. But they also have a hard time being able to stop meeting the needs of others which can empty their tanks and lead to resentment.
This episode resonated so well with a lot of our Two listeners. So, take another listen as Lisa-Jo shares what has changed for her at mid-life, what led her to embrace the superpowers and the kryptonite of an Enneagram Two, and how she knows when it’s time for her to refuel.
Cheers to a New Year!
Dec 31, 2020
REPLAY: Anne Bogel Gets Decisive as an Enneagram 9 (S04-027)
Decision making takes courage. But sometimes the commitment to find the best option consumes an enormous amount of mental energy and can leave any of us exhausted and stuck. However, when you learn to stop overthinking you can start spending time on things that bring more peace, love, and joy into your life.

Today, we're revisiting my interview with Anne Bogel on getting decisive.  Though we focus a lot on Enneagram Nines in this conversation, I think you'll find her advice applicable -- no matter what your type is!

So, take another listen as Anne gets to the heart of decision-making as an Enneagram Nine, shares what perfectionism-driven overthinking looks like, and suggests a few disciplines that Nines can use to get out of analysis-paralysis.

Wishing you all a very happy holiday!
Dec 23, 2020
Jelani Memory: What is Good Can be Gray (Enneagram 1) [S04-026]

What is right and what is wrong? What is good? What is not good? We all tend to believe we know, but each one of us would answer these questions differently. Enneagram Ones, in particular, tend to be pretty black and white when it comes to right and wrong. Typically, it’s harder for Ones to see the gray. So, learning to see the fundamental perfection, or goodness, at the core of all things is an important area of growth for Ones.

Today, author Jelani Memory and I explore the nuances of The Improver, the impact family of origin has on personality, and how he’s learned to find good in the gray.

Jelani Memory is a black man of faith, who originally founded Circle Media which is now Co-owned by Disney and launched an amazing publishing company called A Kids Book About.

The mission of “A Kids Book About,” is to help kids and their grownups have honest conversations by making books about challenging, empowering, and important topics told by diverse authors who know that topic first-hand. They cover a range of topics such as racism, white privilege, empathy, anxiety, and addiction. 

He's spent his career creating products for families, changing the way they engage online and with each other.  He lives in Portland OR with his wife and six kids.  He still hopes to become an artist when he grows up. 


Dec 17, 2020
Part 2: Leeann and Michelle Bring Humor to the Enneagram (Types 4 and 8) [S04-025]

This week I continue the conversation with Leeann and Michelle. Blending humor, motherhood, and the Enneagram, Leeann and Michelle show how they approach self-awareness and personal growth with lightheartedness and compassion towards themselves and others. Tune in through the end of the show to hear the advice they each share for processing big emotions.

With backgrounds in commercial acting, television news, and comedy – Leeann and Michelle are a firehouse combination. You recognize them from their viral hits like, “Look What Joanna Made Me Do,” “If You’re My Friend Then You’d Buy This,” and “The Diet.” The success of videos like those fuels their passion to create great comedy in many mediums; parodies, sketch humor and live shows. Leeann & Michelle have attracted 40 million views of their videos, and have received national attention from USA Today, The New York Times, TODAY and Southern Living. Leeann & Michelle routinely appear in local media, sell out their improv shows, and have even earned the adoration of the one and only, Joanna Gaines.

Between shoots, you can find Leeann & Michelle sweating it out in Phoenix, AZ. Leeann is likely cleaning or organizing her home (again), while Michelle is avoiding laundry.

You can watch more of Leeann and Michelle on YouTube

**If you love this episode and want to hear more about Fours and Eights, listen to Tori Kelly and Andre Murillo discuss the role the Enneagram plays in understanding their friends and family, respecting each other’s strengths, and navigating their emotions.

Dec 10, 2020
Part 1: Leeann and Michelle Bring Humor to the Enneagram (Types 4 and 8) [S04-024]

What happens when two comedians who love the Enneagram get together to make YouTube videos?  You get over 50 amusing Enneagram-related videos to entertain you. With backgrounds in commercial acting, television news and comedy, Leeann Dearing and Michelle Fortin are a firehouse duo who create great comedy in many mediums: parodies, sketch humor and live shows.  You can catch their “Enneagram Funnies” here.

These two join me in witty banter to discuss how the Enneagram has transformed their lives.  You’re going to love them.

Dec 03, 2020
Jamie Grace Quiets the Noise (Enneagram 7) [S04-023]

Enneagram Sevens typically appear confident, optimistic, and sunny.  They’re experts at finding the silver lining in any given situation in an attempt to avoid psychological and emotional or even sometimes circumstantial discomfort or distress. But what people don't understand about Sevens is if you scratch the paint just a little bit you’ll find a lot of anxiety and unattended sorrow, unattended grief that they've spent so long living into the expectations that others have of them to always be the person who brings the juice, or make the party fun.

So how do Sevens learn to sift through their anxiety and grief so they come out stronger on the other side? Listen as my guest, two-time Grammy-nominated singer/songwriter and actress, Jamie Grace, walks us through her process and provides a few tips for quieting the noise.

Jamie is a very self-aware Enneagram Seven who actively advocates for joy, wellness, and mental health through the lens of music, film, and faith. An entertainer at heart, she regularly creates fresh content, including new music and weekly videos and episodes of her podcast, the Jamie Grace Podcast.

Nov 26, 2020
Marcus Johns Learns He's Not in Control (Enneagram 8) [S04-022]

The Enneagram is a wonderful instrument that helps us develop self-awareness and self-knowledge that allows us to move through the world more intelligently, with more love and compassion, but it doesn’t define us.  It helps us develop an internal witness who can stand back and observe when we need to make a different choice or action.  So, when life throws you a curveball, as it did for our guest, Marcus Johns, the Enneagram allows us to shift our perspective and let go of what is not in our control.

Marcus is an actor, musician, writer, and social content creator best known for his viral Vine videos, which continue to entertain people on YouTube. You can also find him here on Instagram.

Nov 19, 2020
Lee and Laura Camp on Healing with the Enneagram (Enneagram 1 and 8) [S04-021]

I’m often asked what it’s like for specific type-pairings to be in a relationship?  I believe that any type can have a successful partnership as long as they are healthy in their type.  That doesn’t mean there won’t be challenges along the way, but when you’re self-aware and also understand how your partner sees the world, it allows for more grace and compassion towards each other.

Today, Lee and Laura Camp join me in a discussion of how the Enneagram helped them get into a healthy space and allowed them to heal their relationship as an Enneagram 1 and Enneagram 8.

Nov 12, 2020
Ben Higgins: Alone in Plain Sight as an Enneagram 4 (S04-020)

We know that Enneagram Ones have a strong inner critic, but they're not alone.  Just how loud is that inner critic for an Enneagram Four?  What does it sound like? 

Tune in this week as former Bachelor, Ben Higgins talks about his inner critic, the healing journey of getting over his “Self,” and the role the Enneagram has played in finding true compassion and connection among all of his relationships.

Nov 05, 2020
Joshua Dubois on Leading with Self-Awareness and Empathy (Enneagram 8) [S04-019]

Enneagram Eights are charismatic individuals who lead through strength, competence, stability, and control. When self-aware, they learn to balance their intensity with a strategic approach and bring community leaders together to execute big changes.

Today’s guest, one of our country’s top voices on community partnerships, Joshua Dubois, joins me in a discussion about the Enneagram and how it has made his team more empathetic and more human with one another.  

In this episode we cover:

  • Learning to trust his instincts
  • How leading strategically opens the door for communication
  • What Joshua learned through his experience in the White House

CEO, author, and media commentator, Joshua DuBois is one of our country’s top voices on community partnerships, issues impacting African Americans, and religion in the public square. Joshua led the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships under President Obama. In the White House he brought together community leaders from across the ideological spectrum to tackle some of the nation’s biggest challenges. Joshua is now CEO of Gauge, a market research company, and also leads Values Partnerships (valuespartnerships.com), one of the country’s top social impact agencies. He is a frequent media commentator on CNN and author of the bestselling book, “The President’s Devotional: The Daily Readings that Inspired President Obama,” a compilation of the devotional meditations he shared with the President and narratives of faith in public life.

Oct 29, 2020
Alli Worthington on Standing Strong as an Enneagram 7 [S04-018]

One of my favorite quotes by M. Scott Peck is, “Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths.” Once you accept that life is hard, and the sooner that you accept it, the better off you’ll be.

With all the craziness of 2020, it’s important to remember that life is full of struggles and we all have to live with a certain amount of pain. If we let it, our negative thoughts can take over and take us out of the game before we even start.  But, with a little self-awareness, we can learn to quiet our thoughts and manage the uncertainty and self-doubt that arises when times are difficult.

My guest today, author, business coach, and Enneagram 7, Alli Worthington joins me for a great conversation about overcoming adversity and moving forward when things are tough.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • What it looks like to “Stand Strong.”

  • How to manage pain and crisis without numbing out, and

  • Recognizing and managing your Inner Critic

Alli Worthington is known for her straight-talking encouragement and practical tools that help women reach their dreams in business and life.  She’s a business coach and advisor who has worked with companies such as Intel, Disney, Microsoft, and Procter & Gamble. She is the co-founder of “Called Creatives,” where she coaches writers and speakers.

Author of The Year of Living Happy, Fierce Faith, and Breaking Busy, Alli is a well-known speaker and host of the popular podcast, The Alli Worthington Show. In her new book, Standing Strong: A Woman’s Guide to Overcoming Adversity and Living with Confidence, Alli gives women a no-nonsense guide to recognizing and eliminating the things that hold them back, to tackling the obstacles of fear, self-doubt, and insecurity, and to stepping into the dreams that planted in their hearts. Each chapter closes with discussion questions and action steps to aid readers on their journeys to living with strength and confidence.

Oct 22, 2020
Ken Coleman on Mistyping and the Enneagram [S04-018]

When trying to figure out your Enneagram type it’s important to know all nine types. If you think you know your type and just read up on that type, you may actually do confirmation bias and just automatically assume, “That sounds like me.”  But when you know all 9 types, you can really dig into the underlying motivation of each type to see which one resonates strongest for you.

So, when Ken Coleman joined me a few months ago to discuss finding your dream job and living as an Enneagram Eight, I kept thinking that something didn’t quite fit.  And knowing that Enneagram Threes and Eights often mistype themselves, I encouraged Ken to do some reading.

Today, Ken’s back to share what he learned.

Listen in as we cover:

  • Why 3s and 8s often get mistyped as each other
  • Whether your personality is hard-wired or driven by the environment
  • The importance of knowing your subtype
Oct 15, 2020
Part 2: Andy Stanley on Decision-Making and the Enneagram [S04-016]

There’s no question that we’re living in a time where a lot of unprecedented decisions are being made all around us. In our current climate, it couldn’t be more evident that we all approach decision-making in different ways — even our responses to decisions other people make vary.

Last week, host of The Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, founder of North Point Ministries, and author of Better Decisions, Fewer Regrets, Andy Stanley and I talked about how your type makes decisions. This week we continue our conversation and cover how each Enneagram type responds when decisions are made for them that impact their life circumstances.

Be sure to listen to part one and two, then download this quick reference that summarizes both episodes.

Oct 08, 2020
Andy Stanley on Decision-Making with the Enneagram, Part 1 [S04-015]

How do you make decisions?  Does your initial response come from the head, heart, or gut?  Our natural tendency is to think that everyone makes decisions the same way that we do.  But the reality is that each Enneagram type takes information in through a different lens which impacts the decisions we make on a daily basis.  

This week we’ve got a special treat for you. Host of The Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast and founder of North Point Ministries, and author of Better Decisions, Fewer Regrets, Andy Stanley takes over as host and interviews me on how each type makes decisions.

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • The default question each type asks as they make decisions
  • Whether your type approaches decisions from the head, heart, or gut
  • What your type should consider before making a decision


About Andy Stanley

Andy Stanley is a pastor, communicator, and bestselling author. Andy founded Atlanta-based North Point Ministries in 1995. Today, NPM consists of seven churches in the Atlanta area and a network of more than 90 churches around the globe that collectively serve nearly 185,000 people weekly. A survey of U.S. pastors in Outreach Magazine identified Andy as one of the ten most influential living pastors in America.

Your Move with Andy Stanley premiered on NBC after Saturday Night Live in 2012 and on CBS after The Late Late Show with James Corden in 2017, giving him an even wider audience. Currently, over seven million episodes are consumed each month through television and podcasts.

Nothing is as personal as his passion for engaging with live audiences, which he has pursued for over two decades at leadership events around the world. In high demand, he speaks at various annual events before audiences of both church and organizational leaders.

Andy and his wife, Sandra, have three grown children and live near Atlanta.

For more information on Andy, visit https://andystanley.com.


This show is brought to you by Restoring the Soul and Thrive Market


Want to advertise/sponsor our show?  Email typology@ianmorgancron.com for more information.

Oct 01, 2020
Bari Tessler: Why Every Type Needs a Financial Therapist (Enneagram 4) [S04-014]

What is your relationship with money?  Do you have a healthy one? Do you have a conscious one?

Most of us don’t receive a financial education or an emotional literacy education as we are growing up.  But, given how much we think about money, understanding what it is for, and why it is uniquely important to you can help foster a better, more intentional relationship with money.

Bari Tessler, Financial Therapist, podcast host, and author of The Art of Money joins me for a discussion on money healing and shares insights into how each type relates to money.

In today’s episode you’ll discover:

  • What a financial therapist is and why you need one
  • What “money emotions” are and how they show up for your type
  • How a body check-in relates to money healing

Bari Tessler Linden, M.A., is a Financial Therapist, Mentor Coach, Mama-preneur, and the Founder of The Art of Money. She has guided thousands of people to new, empowered, and refreshingly honest relationships with money through her nurturing, body-centered approach.  

Her methodology weaves together personal, couple, and creative entrepreneurial money teachings into one complete tapestry. She is the founder of The Art of Money: a year-long money school, which integrates Money Healing, Money Practices and Money Maps.  You can learn more about Bari on her website at https://baritessler.com or follow her on Instagram and Facebook at @baritessler. 


Ready to connect to the world around you and live true to yourself?  Support your journey with my new course, True You: A Deeper Exploration of the Enneagram.  Join the waitlist at https://www.typologyinstitute.com.

Sep 24, 2020
What the Enneagram Says About Your Money Style w/ Rachel Cruze (Enneagram 3) [S04-013]

We all view the world through a different lens and the motivations that drive the decisions we make also vary.  The Enneagram is a valuable tool for helping us understand those motivations so we can become more patient parents, communicate better with our spouses, and extend compassion to our coworkers.

Our underlying motivations even play a large role in how we behave when it comes to money.

When you understand the why behind how you handle money the way that you do, you can begin to make better choices that lead to lasting change.

And today, #1 New York Times bestselling author and money expert, Rachel Cruze, joins me to talk about the natural tendencies and basic challenges of each Enneagram type when it comes to finances.



Rachel Cruze helps people learn the proper ways to handle money and stay out of debt. She’s authored three bestselling books, including Love Your Life, Not Theirs and Smart Money Smart Kids. The daughter of Dave Ramsey, she uses the knowledge and experiences from growing up in the Ramsey household to educate others. She’s the host of The Rachel Cruze Show, which is available on Facebook and YouTube, and The Rachel Cruze Show podcast, which is available on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. You can follow Cruze on Twitter and Instagram at @RachelCruze and online at rachelcruze.com, youtube.com/rachelcruze, or facebook.com/rachelramseycruze

Sep 17, 2020
Power Under Control with Dave Ramsey (Enneagram 8) [S04-012]

Healthy Eights are great friends, exceptional leaders, and champions of those who cannot fight on their own behalf. These Eights are intelligent, self-confident, driven, and use their power in the right measure at the appropriate times. They are highly intuitive and read the world from their gut.  And, today’s guest is no exception.

Listen as Dave Ramsey joins me to talk about the Enneagram and how it has changed the way he moves through the world.  You don’t want to miss his insights as they pertain to trusting his instincts, leading authentically, processing information, and decision-making.

Dave Ramsey is a financial expert helping millions avoid the mistakes he’s made to improve their financial wellness. As the owner of Ramsey Solutions, Dave employs more than 800 team members who are focused and dedicated to doing work that matters.

The Dave Ramsey Show is the third-largest radio talk show in America and is heard by more than 14 million listeners each week on more than 600 radio stations, The Dave Ramsey Show podcast, SiriusXM, iHeartRadio, and a 24-hour online streaming video channel. His caller-driven show features Ramsey’s advice on avoiding money mistakes and his step-by-step plan to get out of them. The Dave Ramsey Show celebrated 25 years on the air in 2017.

You can find more on Dave Ramsey at daveramsey.com or follow him on social media at @daveramsey or @ramseyshow.


Sep 10, 2020
Jamie Ivey on Living in the Present Moment (Enneagram 6) [S04-011]

The ever-present passion (fear) that drives the Enneagram Six’s way of acting, thinking, and feeling, is actually experienced as anxiety. Fear is what arises when you’re in the presence of a clear and immediate source of danger.  Anxiety, in contrast, is a vague, free-floating sense of apprehension that arises in response to an unknown or potential threat.

For Sixes, anxiety plays a role in all aspects of their life.  They are constantly planning “what-if” scenarios, have thought through the contingencies, and know exactly what to do in any given situation. 

But healthy, self-aware Sixes recognize their pattern of worst-case-scenario planning, learn to trust their own experiences, and believe that in the end everything will be alright.

In this episode of Typology, author and host of “The Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey” podcast and Enneagram Six, Jamie Ivey explains the thread of natural caution and apprehension she feels as it relates to her friendships, marriage, and parenting.  And she reminds us that, when healthy, the Six’s anxiety produces a lot of great stories!

P.S. Listen to this episode then text “FRIEND” to 33777 for a free download from Jamie.

Sep 03, 2020
REPLAY: So Six-y It Hurts [S04-009]

The more I know about life and people, the more I love Enneagram Sixes. Called Loyalists, Sixes are the most faithful and dependable people on the Enneagram. They keep a watchful eye over us. They safeguard our values. In my opinion, they're the glue that holds our world together. And, by the time this episode is over, you’re going to understand why Enneagram Sixes have a reputation for being some of the funniest people on the planet.

Today, Jill Phillips, Leslie Jordan, Francie Likis, and Katie Williams describe what it’s like to be Enneagram Sixes. 

You're going to love and admire this group of women as they explain:  

  • How fear and anxiety manifest in The Loyalist
  • What the difference is between counter-phobic and phobic Sixes
  • How different forms of worst-case-scenario planning play out

So, sit back, hit play, and listen to this remarkable group of women talk about how they see and experience the world. You’ll enjoy every minute of it.

Aug 27, 2020
REPLAY: Author Jo Saxton Lives Out Loud

Another one of my favorite episodes is my interview from Season 1 with Jo Saxton.  She’s an author, speaker, podcast host, and leadership coach who has dedicated her career to growing leadership teams around the world and empowering women to find their purpose in their personal and professional lives.  She’s also a strong voice for Enneagram Eights.

Healthy Eights are great friends, exceptional leaders and champions of those who cannot fight on their own behalf. They have the intelligence, courage and stamina to do what others say can’t be done. And, as with most Enneagram Eights, Jo Saxton is full of Eight's life-giving energy.

When healthy, Eights learn to open their hearts like a healthy Two. And on this replay, Jo shares how she peeled back the layers, let down her defenses and got in touch with their inner heart. Listen in as we discuss healing broken identities and using the Enneagram as a tool for breaking through the junk that we accumulate and that confuses us from seeing who we truly are. And at the end of the show, Jo Saxton shares some tips for Eights who are just beginning to do their work and how they can begin to grow beyond their broken identity, or their broken personality, into their best self.

For more information on Jo, visit www.josaxton.com

Aug 20, 2020
REPLAY: Richard Rohr on Getting Over Your "Self" with the Enneagram [S04-007]

As we continue to celebrate reaching over 11 Million downloads, I’d like to revisit my interview with Fr. Richard Rohr.  I first encountered the Enneagram when I was a graduate student at a conservative seminary. While on a weekend retreat I came across a copy of Fr. Richard Rohr’s book, Discovering The Enneagram: An Ancient Tool for a New Spiritual Journey. In that book Richard describes the traits and the underlying compulsions of each of the nine basic Enneagram types. Based on my life experience and what I’d learned in my training to become a counselor, Rohr’s description of the types blew my mind.  They were uncannily accurate. I felt sure I had stumbled on an amazing resource, not only for Christians but for all people. Little did I know, that 25 years later, Richard and I would be friends and the Enneagram would become the central focus of my work.

In this episode, you will learn:

  • How Richard discovered the Enneagram
  • How to break the shackles of self-doubt with self-compassion
  • What exactly is the true self vs. false self
  • Why the Enneagram can help to identify the true-self
  • How we can use the Enneagram on a daily basis as a framework, or blueprint, for spiritual formation

Richard also offers words of encouragement for and caution for each Enneagram type.

Richard is a Franciscan priest of the New Mexico Province and he is the founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He is the author of numerous books, including Everything Belongs, Adam’s Return, The Naked Now, Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, Immortal Diamond, and Eager to Love: The Alternative Way of Francis of Assisi.  

Aug 13, 2020
REPLAY: There's Power in Peace w/Lysa Terkeurst (Enneagram 9) [S04-006]

We want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in and sharing our episodes -- helping us reach our biggest milestone yet -- 11 million downloads! As we celebrate this month, we'll be revisiting a few of Ian's favorite episodes that show just how powerful the Enneagram is as a tool for personal transformation.

In today's replay, we take a look at the adaptable, caring, and "go with the flow" nature of Enneagram Nines.  To keep the peace, Nines can over-accommodate in an unconscious effort to avoid conflict and "fall asleep" to their own needs.  

Our guest, Lysa Terkeurst, #1 New York Times bestselling author and Enneagram Nine, explains why it's important for The Peacemaker not to confuse the desire for peace with the disease to please and to recognize the delight of being yourself.

Lysa TerKeurst is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Uninvited and It’s Not Supposed to be This Way as well as 21 other books. As president of Proverbs 31 Ministries, Lysa and her staff are passionate about teaching the Word of God in ways that get people excited to live the Bible out loud. With their First 5 app and Encouragement for Today devotions, millions of people are studying God’s Word every day with Lysa and her team. Lysa writes from her sticky farm table and lives with her family in North Carolina.  

Lysa was recently awarded the Champions of Faith Author Award and has been published in multiple publications such as Fox News and CNN online. Additionally, she has appeared on the Today Show as one of the leading voices in the Christian community. Each year, Lysa is a featured keynote presenter at more than 40 events across North America, including the Women of Joy Conferences and the Catalyst Leadership Conference. She has a passion for equipping women to share their stories for God's glory through Proverbs 31 Ministries' annual She Speaks Conference and writer training program, COMPEL: Words That Move People. Lysa writes from her sticky farm table and lives with her family in North Carolina.


Aug 06, 2020
Jenni Catron and Identity Work as an Enneagram 3 [S04-005]

Driven by the desire to appear successful and distinguish themselves through their achievements, image-focused Enneagram Threes often appear confident, ambitious, and goal-oriented. At their best, they are self-accepting, authentic role models who inspire others.

Today, author and leadership coach, Jenni Catron explains the pivotal role the Enneagram has had played for her personally and professionally.  She discusses the importance of identity work for Enneagram Threes, recognizing when the shadow-side is showing up more, and how being too risk-avoidant can hinder growth and development.   

Jenni Catron is a leadership coach, author and speaker. Her passion is to cultivate healthy leaders to lead thriving organizations. She speaks at conferences and events nationwide, seeking to help leaders develop the clarity and confidence to lead well. As Founder and CEO of The 4Sight Group, she consults organizations on leadership, team culture and organizational health. With over 20 years of experience in corporate and non-profit organizations, Jenni has a passion for helping leaders “put feet to their vision.”

Jenni is the author of several books including Clout: Discover and Unleash Your God-Given Influence and The 4 Dimensions of Extraordinary Leadership . She loves a fabulous cup of tea, great books, learning the game of tennis and hiking with her husband. Jenni can be found on social media at @jennicatron and at https://get4sight.com

You can also download her free PDF to help you define compelling values for your team.

Jul 30, 2020
Blake Mycoskie on the Process of Renewal as an Enneagram 7 [S04-004]

Known for their playful, high-spirited, and spontaneous personalities, Enneagram Sevens infuse optimism and adventure in their daily interactions.  But their fear of boredom can lead to impulsive decision making and difficulty committing to plans in advance.

So, what happens when an Enneagram Seven focuses on doing their work and allows the knowledge to penetrate and break the patterns that typically drive an Enthusiast?  Our guest, founder of TOMS and Madefor, Blake Mycoskie shares how the adoption of specific positive practices has helped him to really thrive and flourish as his best, most authentic self.

Blake Mycoskie is a serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, and best-selling author most known for founding TOMS Shoes.  He’s also the person behind the idea of One for One®, a business model that helps a person in need with every product purchased.  As a New York Times best-selling author of the book, Start Something That Matters, Blake offered his own story of inspiration and the power of incorporating giving in business. He’s achieved numerous accolades for his unique approach to business including the Secretary of State’s 2009 Award of Corporate Excellence, the 2015 Next Generation Award from Harvard’s School of Public Health, the 2016 Cannes Lion Heart Award, and the 2018 amfAR Award of Courage.  Blake also recently expanded his philanthropic efforts to include the funding of the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins, making it the first such research center in the US and the largest of its kind in the world.

His current project, Madefor is a ten-month program that applies the principles of modern neuroscience, psychology and physiology to make your brain and body better.  It leads you to adopt habits that work together to shift your mindset and behaviors.  And, just for our Typology listeners, you’ll receive 20% off with the discount code MFTYPOLOGY.  For more information, visit GetMadeFor.com.

Jul 23, 2020
Ken Coleman on Using Proximity and the Enneagram to Find Your Dream Job [S04-003]

Enneagram Eights are real forces of nature.  They are incredibly hardworking with a great deal of energy, and their self-confidence and take-charge personality make it easy for them to make difficult decisions.  So, when it comes to finding the job you love, Enneagram Eight, Ken Coleman couldn’t be a better guide. 

Today on Typology, Ken not only outlines the questions any Enneagram type needs to answer in order to find their dream job, but he also covers what he likes about being an Enneagram Eight and how it’s helped him in his personal and professional life.

Ken Coleman is the #1 national bestselling author of The Proximity PrincipleThe Proven Strategy That Will Lead to the Career You Love. At Ramsey Solutions, he hosts The Ken Coleman Show, a nationally syndicated radio show — part of the Ramsey Network — that airs on 51 stations across the U.S every weekday. Ken is a trusted voice and expert who’s been featured in Forbes and appeared on Fox Business Network, Yahoo! Finance, and the Rachael Ray Show.

Jul 16, 2020
Josh Radnor's Shift from the Outside In [S04-002]

As a map of our interior world, the Enneagram is meant to bring about or enable spiritual transformation. But what does it look like when we are far enough down our path to see a difference? Our guest, actor/musician and Enneagram three Josh Radnor illustrates that vision today. Josh talks to Ian about growing in his compassion for himself and others, transforming from an unevolved three to an evolved three, recognizing the tension that plays out as a three with a four wing, and what spirituality looks like for him right now.

JOSH RADNOR, most famous for his role on the long-running hit sitcom HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER, also has an impressive body of dramatic work. Josh wrote, directed, and starred in Sundance feature hits LIBERAL ARTS and HAPPYTHANKYOUMOREPLEASE, and co-starred alongside Katheryn Hahn in Jill Soloway’s AFTERNOON DELIGHT, which also premiered at Sundance. Josh has also starred in numerous plays on Broadway. On television, he starred for two seasons on PBS's MERCY STREET and on NBC’s one-hour drama RISE. He is in a band with musician Ben Lee, called Radnor & Lee, and they just released their second album GOLDEN STATE. You can also see him alongside Al Pacino as the Nazi hunter Lonny Flash in Amazon's HUNTERS.

Jul 09, 2020
How the Enneagram Impacts Tori Kelly and André Murillo [S04-001]

We're kicking off season 4 with a great episode! Today, Enneagram Four pop star Tori Kelly and former professional basketball player André Murillo join me to talk about how the Enneagram has impacted their relationship.  Right out of the gate the conversation goes deep into how the Enneagram fosters a better understanding of the needs of their friends and family, encourages them to respect each other’s strengths, and helps them navigate the different ways they each approach emotions.

Tori Kelly is an American singer, songwriter, actress, and record producer who first gained recognition after posting videos on YouTube as a teenager, and appeared as a semi-finalist on the ninth season of American Idol in 2010. Thereafter, she independently released her self-produced debut EP in 2012, Handmade Songs by Tori Kelly.

Since making her debut with 2015’s Unbreakable Smile, a widely acclaimed album that entered the Billboard 200 at No. 2, Tori has lit up the pop landscape with her breathtaking vocals and full-hearted songwriting.  Over the past year, she’s continued to captivate with her sophomore effort Hiding Place: a passion project whose R&B-tinged take on classic gospel won Best Gospel Album at the 2019 Grammy Awards.  And though Hiding Place marks a stylistic departure from Kelly’s work in the pop world, each song shows the steadfast commitment to uncompromising artistry that carries through her music.  

Her husband, André Murillo is a former German-American professional basketball player who was raised in Lake Forest, California. He started his basketball career at Hamburg Towers in the German Pro A Basketball League then played for the Sea View League MVP. He currently has a passion for writing and sharing his personal life experiences.

Jul 02, 2020
Kendra Adachi's Lazy Genius Way to Embrace What Matters as an Enneagram One [S03-048]

When I first heard an Improver wrote a book titled, The Lazy Genius Way, I had to get her on the show.  How on earth does an Enneagram One, who typically can’t stop working to perfect the world and relax, come to embrace laziness?

In today’s episode, author Kendra Adachi explains why it’s so important to be a genius about the things that matter, but to be lazy about things that don’t.  She also talks about the impact the Enneagram has had on growing in self-awareness, helping her recognize and find compassion for her inner critic, and adopting simple practices to help break out of the trap of her personality.  

Jun 25, 2020
Michael Hyatt on Vision-Driven Leadership [S03-047]

What makes a great leader? We typically think of a strong leader as someone who knows where they are going and how to motivate others to get there.  But how do you effectively lead your team if you don’t have a clear vision of your future?

On this edition of Typology, Michael Hyatt explains what a Vision Driven Leader is and why a strategic vision is the most essential ingredient in leadership, not just in business but in all aspects of our lives.

Known for his New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling books advising leaders in the area of productivity and goal achievement, Michael is uniquely qualified with over 40 years of experience as an entrepreneur and executive to discuss the make-or-break factor in successful leadership: vision.

In this podcast, you’ll discover:

  • What a vision script is and why it’s so important

  • How an irresistible, clear vision can rally your team

  • How to avoid distractions and focus on opportunities that connect with your vision

Listen to this great episode then make sure to grab your copy of The Vision Driven Leader: 10 Questions to Focus Your Efforts, Energize Your Team, and Scale Your Business.

Jun 18, 2020
Elizabeth Evans Flips the Script as an Enneagram 5 [S03-046]

This week I’m thrilled to welcome podcast goddess and Enneagram Five, Elizabeth Evans. Having previously wrestled with a scarcity mindset that kept her wrapped up in her mind, she shares her powerful story of how she flipped the script of her fear and stepped into a mindset that led her to become a successful, female business owner. 

An expert in storytelling, Elizabeth shares how she integrates the Enneagram into her business, opens up about how she manages her “go-to” fears, and explains how she taps into the superpowers that come with being an Enneagram Five.

Elizabeth is a podcast producer, economics fanatic and founder of Elizabeth Evans Co.  Her 360 boutique podcast studio helps creatives strategically build their show from conception to launch. Her uniquely created podcast methodology has helped world-renowned artists, best-selling authors, award-winning musicians, and impactful influencers to create transformative podcasts full of timeless, quality conversations that empower listeners into extraordinary action. 

For more information about Elizabeth Evans visit her website and don't forget to check out her recently launched Podcast Society.

Jun 11, 2020
How to Apply the Enneagram in Your Business and Marriage with Tim and Beckie Farrant [S03-045]

How many teams do you belong to?  Personally, I am part of numerous teams. Be it my marriage, my friendships, my church, my AA group, or my business, I use the Enneagram with each of my teams to reduce conflict, improve communication, and promote cooperation. It’s an invaluable tool for building stronger teams.

In this episode, guests Tim and Beckie Farrant join me to talk about how they apply the Enneagram in business, in leadership, and in marriage.

Beckie is a wildly successful DIY blogger and top producer for DoTERRA Essential Oils.  Tim has over 20 years in pastoral ministry and is the author of “She’s Selling What?!”  Together, they walk us through the ways they support each other and their teams using the Enneagram.

Jun 04, 2020
Dr. Curt Thompson on the Enneagram and Shame

The Enneagram provides nine consistent, fairly predictable ways for us to understand and tell our narrative of how we operate in the world and make sense of our lives. It’s a tool that helps us enter into a conversation with ourselves about the recurring themes and patterns of behaviors that are self-defeating or hurtful to others. One of the themes that operates as a thread in each of our lives is shame. Next to love, I believe shame is the most powerful force in the universe, but in the wrong direction.

In today’s profoundly moving, heart-changing episode, author and psychiatrist Dr. Curt Thompson joins me for a deep conversation about shame and how it plays out as a human experience for all nine types.

In this episode we cover:

  • The definition of shame… what it does as opposed to what it is
  • Ways shame manifests in each Enneagram type
  • How we can begin to heal shame through community

About Curt Thompson, M.D.

Curt Thompson, M.D., is a psychiatrist in private practice in Falls Church, Virginia, and founder of Being Known, which develops teaching programs, seminars, and resource materials to help people explore the connection between interpersonal neurobiology and Christian spirituality which lead to genuine change and transformation. 

Dr. Thompson is the author of Anatomy of the Soul and The Soul of Shame: Retelling the Stories We Believe About Ourselves.

Thompson graduated from Wright State University School of Medicine and completed his psychiatric residency at Temple University Hospital. He is board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.

He and his wife, Phyllis, are the parents of two children and reside in Arlington, Virginia. He serves as an elder at Washington Community Fellowship in Washington, D.C.

May 28, 2020
Chuck Degroat on the Nine Faces of Narcissism [S03-043]

Today, psychologist, author, and spiritual director Chuck Degroat joins me for a killer episode about the nine faces of narcissism.  And we’re not talking about people with full-blown narcissistic personality disorder per se. We’re talking about narcissism on a continuum and what it looks like when each Enneagram type is manifesting a narcissistic style or type. Each of us is somewhere on that narcissistic spectrum. 

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • What narcissism actually is
  • How narcissism shows up in all nine types, and
  • What the healing path is for all nines types to keep narcissism in check.
May 21, 2020
Fulfillment NOT Achievement with Molly Fletcher (Enneagram 3) [S03-042]

Earlier this season, Molly Fletcher and I talked about her struggle to relax and turn it off. At the end of our interview, I asked her to come back after she had done some work and really dug into the Enneagram. Now, seven months later, she joins us to share how time and reflection have truly helped her slow down and shift her focus to chasing fulfillment rather than achievement. What does that look like for an Enneagram Three?

Tune in to find out.

Molly Fletcher is a popular keynote speaker who shares the unconventional techniques that helped her thrive as one of the first female sports agents in the high stakes, big ego world of professional sports. As a highly sought-after motivational speaker, she delivers game-changing messages to top companies, trade associations, and teams worldwide.

Molly spent two decades as one of the world’s only female sports agents. She was hailed as the “female Jerry Maguire” by CNN as she recruited and represented hundreds of sport’s biggest names, including Hall of Fame pitcher John Smoltz, PGA TOUR golfer Matt Kuchar, broadcaster Erin Andrews, and basketball championship coaches Tom Izzo and Doc Rivers.

She currently serves as a National Trustee member for the Boys & Girls Clubs of America and on the board of directors for the Intercollegiate Tennis Association (ITA) and the national advisory board for the Positive Coaching Alliance (PCA).

May 14, 2020
Enneagram and Parenting Insights from the Olricks [S03-041]

What better way to wrap up our series on Enneagram and Parenting, than with a rich conversation with parenting experts, Amy and Jeffrey Olrick, Ph.D. Dr. Olrick is a clinical psychologist who has worked with children and families for over 20 years. Amy is an author and human rights advocate whose work and writing has been featured in the Guardian and USA Today. Together, they run GrowingConnected.com, offering scientifically grounded and faith-informed resources for parents.

Today we discuss:

  • How the Enneagram can help parents identify and live into their strengths

  • What the 6 Needs of Every Child are and how they feather with the Enneagram

  • Co-parenting to meet the needs of your children with balance

Tune in for some great parenting insights on connecting with your children.

May 07, 2020
Dave Hollis on Growth and Fulfillment with the Enneagram [S03-040]

Author of Get Out of Your Own Way: A Skeptic’s Guide to Growth and Fulfillment, Dave Hollis joins me to talk honestly about the lies human beings tell themselves and how those lies feather with the Enneagram.  Together, we review the most common lies people tell themselves, offer tips for neutralizing those lies, and discuss the importance of rewriting our stories to become the best, truest version of our selves.

Dave Hollis is one half of the dynamic, powerhouse duo that is Rachel and Dave Hollis. The former Disney distribution chief, responsible for the relaunch of the Star Wars franchise, the Avengers series, and mega-hits like Frozen and Beauty and the Beast, left his prestigious post at Disney to lead The Hollis Company alongside wife Rachel Hollis.

Their work exists to afford people the opportunity to change their lives and comes in the form of live events, film and television projects, top-rated podcasts, product lines at retail, digital education and more.

For a chance to win a copy of Dave Hollis’ new book, subscribe to my email list here.

Apr 30, 2020
Dr. Russell Moore on the Enneagram and Morality [S03-039]

This week Dr. Russell Moore joins Ian Cron for a rich discussion on morality and authenticity. Dr. Moore is president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, the moral and public policy agency of the nations’ largest Protestant denomination.  He is an ethicist, theologian, award-winning writer, and head of the moral and public policy agency of the SBC.  The Wall Street Journal has called Moore “vigorous, cheerful and fiercely articulate.” He’s also the author of several books.

In this episode we talk about:

  • How the Enneagram helps him in his work
  • What is his current existential angst
  • Ways he reconciles his world when he feels misunderstood


Apr 23, 2020
Enneagram as a Tool for Families with Justice Skinner (Enneagram 6) [S03-038]

The Enneagram is a great tool for integration for yourself, but I’d like to encourage you to think of it as a tool that can really impact family dynamics, including strengthening your relationships with your children. When families integrate the Enneagram into their daily lives, not only do parents begin to better understand and distinguish the needs of their children, but children can also learn to recognize their own needs as well as the needs of their siblings.  Having this level of understanding creates so much room for empathy and grace for each other.

One of the questions I hear most often as it relates to the Enneagram and families is, “How old should my child be before they start learning the Enneagram?”  And though I’m not prepared to provide a specific age, I do think it’s important to explore the Enneagram as a tool for young people.

So, today, I’m excited to share with you my conversation with our youngest guest ever…Justice Skinner.  Justice is the eldest son of our very own, Anthony Skinner, and happens to be an Enneagram Six.  This interview is full of wisdom and clarity for Enneagram Sixes of all ages. 

I hope it also gives you a glimpse into the way the Enneagram can operate in a family-system.


P.S. Looking for tips on parenting with the Enneagram? Subscribe to my YouTube channel to catch my next series on Enneagram and Parenting beginning April 27th.

Apr 17, 2020
Author Brian McLaren on Internal Friendship (Enneagram 4) [S03-037]

Today on Typology, I’m thrilled to welcome author Brian McLaren. Brian is an author, speaker, activist and theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good.          

Brian is a faculty member of The Living School, which is part of the Center for Action and Contemplation, and he co-leads the Common Good Messaging Team, which is part of Vote Common Good. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and a leader in the Convergence Network, through which he has developed an innovative training/mentoring program for pastors, church planters, and lay leaders called Convergence Leadership Project. 

His most recent projects include an illustrated children's book (for all ages) called Cory and the Seventh Story and The Galapagos Islands: A Spiritual Journey.  And he’s currently working on Faith After Doubt (Spring 2021) and Do I Stay Christian? (Spring ‘22

In today’s episode, Brian discusses how the Enneagram has:

  • helped him understand the ways that he sabotages himself
  • Allowed him to have grace and appreciation for each of his children
  • Given him permission to become a friend to himself

You’ll also hear how Fours can use their gifts to find their way out of the tunnel at the end of the light.

Apr 09, 2020
ABC News' Paula Faris and the Typing Interview Process [S03-036]

The Enneagram is complicated and nuanced, but human beings are infinitely more complex than the Enneagram. And today’s episode proves just that. Our guest, ABC News correspondent, Paula Faris, exudes a lot of energy from a few different Enneagram types.  Listen as Ian walks Paula through the Typing Interview Process to help her tease out the types she most strongly resonates with, then offers some “homework” for really unearthing her type on her own.

Paula Faris is a senior national correspondent at ABC News and host of the popular podcast Journeys of Faith with Paula Faris, which gives an intimate look at how some of the world’s most influential people lean on faith and spirituality in the best and worst of times. An Emmy Award-winning journalist, Paula previously was co-anchor of the Good Morning America weekend edition, as well as a co-host of The View.

Apr 02, 2020
Part 2: Pastor Louie Giglio's Insights for an Enneagram 3 [S03-035]

This week we continue our conversation with author, speaker, and pastor Louie Giglio. Louie is the Pastor of Passion City Church and the original visionary of the Passion movement, which exists to call a generation to leverage their lives for the fame of Jesus.  He and his wife Shelley lead the teams at Passion City Church, sixstepsrecords, Passion Publishing and the Passion Global Institute. Louie is the national-bestselling author of Not Forsaken, Goliath Must Fall, The Comeback, and several others.

In Part Two, Pastor Louie gets vulnerable and shares his story of healing as an Enneagram Three.

Today we cover:

  • How to recognize when you’re heading into dangerous territory for yourself

  • What it’s like when an Enneagram 3 hits their wall

Tune in as we continue to reflect on the inner story of an Enneagram Three.

Mar 26, 2020
Pastor Louie Giglio: New Insights for an Enneagram 3 [S03-034]

I'm thrilled to welcome Pastor Louie Giglio to the Typology Studio. Louie is the Pastor of Passion City Church and the original visionary of the Passion movement, which exists to call a generation to leverage their lives for the fame of Jesus.  He and his wife Shelley lead the teams at Passion City Church, sixstepsrecords, Passion Publishing and the Passion Global Institute. Louie is also the national-bestselling author of Not Forsaken, Goliath Must Fall, The Comeback, and several others.

Louie just recently learned his Enneagram type, so this week we address his questions and reflect on the inner workings of an Enneagram Three.

In Part One, we touch on:

  • How to determine your dominant wing
  • Using the Enneagram as a “lane detection system”
  • Balancing the task list with true self-reflection

And don’t miss next week as we take an even deeper dive into the world and the redemption of those who identify as an Enneagram Three.

Mar 19, 2020
Anne Bogel: How an Enneagram 9 Gets Decisive

What happens when an Enneagram 9 stops overthinking and starts making decisions? Enneagram Nines have an incredible ability to see all sides of any given circumstance, but that commitment to find the best option consumes an enormous amount of mental energy and can leave them exhausted and stuck. However, when Nines learn to stop overthinking they can start spending more time on things that matter and that bring more peace, love and joy into their lives.

Today’s guest, author Anne Bogel, gets to the heart of decision-making as an Enneagram Nine and shares what perfectionism-driven overthinking looks like and suggests a few disciplines that Nines can use to get out of analysis paralysis.

Anne Bogel is the author of Reading People and I’d Rather Be Reading and creator of the blog Modern Mrs. Darcy and the podcasts What Should I Read Next? and Óne Great Book.  She’s been featured in O, the Oprah Magazine, Real Simple, Bustle, Refinery, The Washington Post and more.  Bogel’s popular book lists and reading guides have established her as a tastemaker among readers, authors, and publishers. Her latest book, Don’t Overthink It offers practical strategies on replacing negative thoughts with positive thought patterns that will make an immediate and lasting difference in how you deal with questions both big and small.

Mar 12, 2020
Mailbag Thursday: An Enneagram Q&A with Ian Cron [S03-032]

We received such a great response from all of you after our first “Mailbag Thursday,” that we’re doing it again. Today, Anthony pulls a few more audience questions from the bag for Ian to answer.

Topics covered include:

  • Whether trauma in adulthood can lead to type repression

  • What the countertype 4 really looks like

  • Resources on how different types process grief

Tune in to hear what Ian has to say about these topics plus a few more. And for a chance to have your questions answered on-air, leave us a comment on social OR submit your questions right here.

Mar 05, 2020
Hip Hop Artist PROPAGANDA reflects on the Enneagram 3 [S03-031]

I’m thrilled to welcome today’s Typology guest, PROPAGANDA. Prop is a Christian Hip Hop and spoken word artist/poet, political activist, husband, father, academic, emcee, and an Enneagram Three. He and his wife, University Professor Dr. Alma Zaragoza-Petty, also host a podcast together called The Red Couch Podcast where they cover everything from pop culture to important social issues – all with the unique perspective, insight and wit only they can bring.

In this episode, we have a candid conversation about how the Enneagram has helped him identify his interior struggles and what “doing his work” looks like.  You’ll learn:

  • What Prop loves about being a Three
  • What triggered Prop to start “doing his work”
  • Specific rituals Prop practices to keep him in the moment

For more information on PROPAGANDA, visit https://prophiphop.com or follow him on social @prophiphop.

Feb 27, 2020
Jill Phillips on the Resilience of an Enneagram 6 [S03-030]

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome my friend, Jill Phillips.  Jill is a singer, songwriter and therapist based in Nashville who has been immersed in the Enneagram for some time now. She has a lot of wisdom to share, especially as it relates to the nuances of being a Six.

Today we’ll touch on:

  • Enneagram stances and how they impact the lens through which each type views the world
  • Ways the Enneagram integrates with other things, such as therapy or recovery
  • The Enneagram Six’s defense mechanisms for managing fear and anxiety

Tune in to this great episode.

Feb 20, 2020
Part 2: Author Jennie Allen on Toxic Thoughts and the Enneagram (Enneagram 7) [S03-029]

We all walk around thinking toxic thoughts but just because we think something doesn’t make it true.  Our thoughts are charged with emotions and energy, but they are not our enemies. If you treat them as though there is some kind of demonic force inside your head, you’re actually investing them with power they do not have.  They are not in charge of us. We are in charge of our thoughts and we have the ability to change our own narrative.

In Part Two of my interview with Jennie Allen, we examine the toxic thoughts of an Enneagram Seven and how important it is for all of us to not give our thoughts too much power.

Feb 13, 2020
Part 1: Author Jennie Allen on Toxic Thoughts and the Enneagram (Enneagram 7) [S03-028]

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome author, Jennie Allen. Jennie is the founder and visionary behind IF:Gathering, an organization that equips women with gospel-centered resources, events, and community so they may learn more about who God is and disciple others. A sought-after speaker, Allen has taught at Women of Faith, Catalyst, and Q conferences. She is the author of several books, including Restless, Anything, and Nothing to Prove, and her latest book, Get Out of Your Head: Stopping the Spiral of Toxic Thoughts, just released on January 28th.

In part 1 of this 2-part episode, Jennie and I talk about how understanding her own strengths and weaknesses as an Enneagram Seven has played a pivotal role in learning to trust others in leading her organization while allowing her to lean into her own gifts to find happiness and success in both her professional and personal life.

Feb 06, 2020
Part 2: Former Governor Bill Haslam on how to live and lead as an Enneagram 3 (S03-027)

Each Enneagram Type is beautiful and in its healthy expression is truly fantastic.  When Threes are healthy, they no longer find it important to credentialize their achievements, they become more community-minded and interested in helping others succeed.

In Part Two of my conversation with former Governor of Tennessee, Bill Haslam, we continue our discussion on the dangers Enneagram Threes face when they over-identify with the role they play in their job and allow perception to matter more than reality.

Jan 30, 2020
Former Governor Bill Haslam: How to Live and Lead as an Enneagram 3 (S03-026)

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome my friend and former Governor of Tennessee, Bill Haslam.  Bill began his career in business joining his father, Jim Haslam, who was the founder of the petroleum company Pilot Corporation.  He was the CEO of the E-commerce and Catalog Division for Saks Fifth Avenue from 1999 to 2001, Mayor of Knoxville, TN from 2003-2010, and is co-owner of the Tennessee Smokies Minor League Baseball Team. He also happens to be an Enneagram Three.

In part one of this two-part episode, Bill and I talk about what it’s like to live and lead as an Enneagram Three.

Jan 23, 2020
Author Lisa-Jo Baker Sets Boundaries as an Enneagram Two [S03-025]

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome Lisa-Jo Baker,  a former attorney and longtime Community Manager at (in)courage, podcast host, best-selling author of The Middle Matters, Never Unfriended and Surprised by Motherhood. She’s also an Enneagram Two.

At their best, Enneagram Twos truly radiate the unconditional, altruistic love of God. They just sort of signal love out into the world in a way that no other type can. But they also have a hard time being able to stop meeting the needs of others which can empty their tanks and lead to resentment. Today, Lisa-Jo shares what has changed for her at mid-life, what led her to embrace the superpowers and the kryptonite of an Enneagram Two, and how she knows when it’s time for her to refuel.

Jan 16, 2020
Mailbag Thursday: An Enneagram Q&A [S03-024]

We love providing you with new content and great guests each week.  But, as you might imagine, the interviews often spark a lot of questions from our listeners.  In fact, we receive tons of questions every single day.

So, today we’re diving into 2020 with something we’ve been talking about for quite a while...we'll be reading and answering some of your questions on the air.  We’re super excited to finally roll out our first “Mailbag Thursday,” and we hope you are too.  Keep those questions rolling in and maybe we’ll answer your question on the next Mailbag Thursday.

Thanks for listening!

Jan 09, 2020
Betsy Miller on Accepting Fear and Anxiety (Enneagram 6) [S03-023]

Happy New Year! This week on Typology, I’m thrilled to welcome my friend, Betsy Miller. Betsy is the Director of Finance for Storybrand and also serves as the chairman of the Board of Directors for RESCUE: Freedom International, an organization that is a leading force in the rescue and restoration of survivors of human trafficking.

Betsy and I take a look into the mind of an Enneagram Six, or The Loyalist.  Enneagram Sixes tend to doubt the commitment of others, have difficulty making decisions without outside input, and always consider the worst-case scenario.

Tune in as we explore the Loyalists' basic fear and provide some great tips to help Sixes learn to accept anxiety and doubt on their journey toward health.

Jan 02, 2020
Life, Family and the Enneagram with the Crons (REPLAY) [S03-022]

The Enneagram allows us to build and sustain healthy relationships by appreciating and understanding our own motivations and behaviors as well as those of our friends and family. 

In today’s episode, the Cron family gathers over the holidays to discuss how the Enneagram has helped them grow closer and better understand each other. Listen as they share how their family finds balance and appreciation among each other.   

Dec 26, 2019
Holiday Gift Ideas for each Enneagram Type (REPLAY) [S03-021]

This week we’re taking a break to enjoy the holidays with our friends and families.  So, we're replaying last year’s episode where we give suggestions for the perfect Christmas gift for each Enneagram type.  We wish you a fabulous couple of weeks and we’ll kick off 2020 with some great new interviews.  Happy Holidays!

Dec 19, 2019
Part 2: Amanda Cook on the Sacred Rhythm of an Enneagram Five [S03-020]

This week I continue my insightful conversation with singer-songwriter, Amanda Cook. Amanda is a worship leader at Bethel Church and with Bethel Music, GMA Dove Award Winner for Inspirational Album of the Year, and winner of three Covenant Awards from GMA Canada, including Female Vocalist of the Year, Song of the Year, and Praise and Worship Song of the Year for You Make Me Brave.

In this episode, Amanda and I explain:

  • the gift and grip of grief
  • the Fives’ defense mechanism of isolation
  • the importance of staying present in the moment

This conversation brings so much light and clarity to the construction of the Enneagram Five’s personality.  You don’t want to miss it.

Dec 12, 2019
Amanda Cook on the Sacred Rhythm of an Enneagram 5 [S03-019]

This week on Typology, I welcome a very special Enneagram Five who has done her work and beautifully wraps her words around her experience as a Five.  Our guest, Amanda Lindsey Cook is a singer-songwriter, worship leader at Bethel Church and with Bethel Music, GMA Dove Award Winner for Inspirational Album of the Year, and winner of three Covenant Awards from GMA Canada, including Female Vocalist of the Year, Song of the Year, and Praise and Worship Song of the Year for You Make Me Brave.

In this episode, Amanda Cook:

  • Shares how music helps her connect with her feelings

  • Describes the important practice of embodiment

  • Reveals the sacred rhythm of an Enneagram Five

Our conversation was so rich, we made this a two-part episode.  So, tune in next week as we continue our dive into the attic of Amanda’s mind.

And to add to this amazing episode, I’m super excited to announce that Anthony and I are taking Typology on the road.  I’ll be hosting the first-ever LIVE recording of Typology at the Balboa Theater in San Diego on March 21st. I’ll share more details in the upcoming weeks but in the meantime, mark your calendars for the ticket pre-sale opening next Wednesday at 12:00 pm Central Time. Stay tuned on TypologyPodcast.com or on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter.

Dec 05, 2019
Part 2: John Mark Comer on Focusing his Attention (Enneagram 1) [S03-018]

In Part two of my conversation with John Mark Comer—author, speaker, pastor, and Enneagram One—we continue our discussion about the Enneagram and why it’s so important to eliminate hurry from our lives. When you think about it, when you feel listened to and attended to, you feel loved by a person. But when we rush from one thing to another, we are unable to focus our attention on those we love most and our relationships are negatively impacted. If instead, we learn to live in a different space than hurry, the love, peace, and serenity we’re really after will follow.

Nov 27, 2019
Part 1: John Mark Comer on Focusing his Attention (Enneagram One) [S03-017)

What do you pay attention to? When each of us walks into a room, the focus of our attention is different.  An Enneagram Two might look for who they can connect with, an Enneagram Four might focus on what’s missing in the room, and an Enneagram One might notice what needs to be fixed. 

But who is that Two not connecting with?  What is in the room that the Four is not appreciating?  And what is right in the room that the One doesn’t need to fix?

Today on Typology, I begin my conversation with John Mark Comer—author, speaker, pastor, and an Enneagram One—about the importance of “paying attention to what is” and how the Enneagram has taught him to stop and ask the right questions in order to grow and mature throughout his own spiritual journey.  

And don't miss next week, when we continue our conversation in Part Two!

Nov 21, 2019
Al Andrews on Facing Your Sorrows with the Enneagram (Enneagram 2) [S03-016]

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome my friend, Al Andrews. Al is not only a great counselor, author, and speaker, but he is also the director of Porter’s Call, a non-profit offering counsel, support and encouragement to recording artists and their families.

Al gives voice to what it’s like to be a healthy two and how important it is for each of us to face our sorrows in order to heal from our brokenness. We also touch on:

  • What makes a truly great helper

  • The superpower of a Two

  • The dark side of a Two

And you’ll also hear some great self-awareness questions for Twos to ask themselves on their journey toward health.

Nov 14, 2019
Andrew Peterson and the true gifts of an Enneagram 4 (S03-015)

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome my good friend, Andrew Peterson—award-winning singer-songwriter and author. His newest book, Adorning the Dark, just released on October 15, and his 20th Anniversary Behold the Lamb of God Tour is going on now through the end of December.

As two Enneagram Fours, Andrew and I get personal about the strengths and weaknesses of our type and how it has impacted our lives over the years. In this episode, you’ll hear about the Enneagram Four’s:

  • True gifts to the world
  • Inner critic and how it plays out in daily life
  • Characteristic traits and what to watch out for

You’ll also learn an important tip of what NOT to do when a four is melancholic.  It will change how you approach the fours in your life.  

Nov 07, 2019
The Enneagram Made Simple with Don Miller (Enneagram 3) [S03-014]

This week on Typology, I’m thrilled to welcome my good friend, Donald Miller—best-selling author of Building a StoryBrand, creator of the brand new Business Made Simple University, and Enneagram Type 3.

Don and I have talked about the Enneagram before—mostly from a business perspective. But in this episode, I invited him to get personal and vulnerable, and he graciously obliged. Learn how self-awareness helped Don move from:

  • Insecure to confident

  • Feeling like an outsider to knowing he’s accepted

  • “Unreal” to “real”

  • Living from a victim mentality to owning his own success and happiness

You’ll also get to hear about his powerful formula for interrupting self-limiting thoughts (You’ll want to apply it to your own life today!) and I reveal a massive mistake people make along their journey to self-awareness.

I hope you’ll listen in.

P.S. At the start of the episode, Don mentions that when he finds a particularly helpful book, he immediately goes looking for an online course. As a visual learner, experiencing the content through videos helps him better integrate what he’s learned. If that sounds familiar, Enneagram Made Simple is perfect for you! And here’s an amazing bonus: When you buy Enneagram Made Simple, you get ongoing access to Business Made Simple University—an online learning platform Don and his team at StoryBrand have just launched to help you develop yourself both personally and professionally—all for just $275/year. I’m genuinely excited for you to join me on this journey. Let’s figure out this thing called life—together.

Oct 31, 2019
Part 2, Rev. Becca Stevens on Resisting the Enneagram [S03-012]

This week Ian welcomes back Becca Stevens--author, priest, and founder/president of Thistle Farms.  Last week, they began to explore Becca’s resistance to the Enneagram. But today, Ian walks Becca through the process of discovering her Enneagram type.

This episode is full of great insights for anyone looking to figure out their type. So, regardless of where you are in the process, what type you are, what type your friends are or your spouse is, you're going to find a lot of really helpful information by the end of the show. 


Oct 17, 2019
Mark Batterson on the Blessings of the Enneagram (Enneagram 3) [S03-013]

This week on Typology, I’m excited to welcome my friend, Mark Batterson—author of 17 books including The New York Times bestseller The Circle Maker, founder and lead pastor of National Community Church, and an Enneagram 3.

In this episode, I invite Mark to get personal about his ministry and his marriage. Learn what the Enneagram taught Mark about:

  • "Performing" grace
  • The cure for the fear of failure
  • How we identify and connect with others when we revealing our own challenges and struggles

At the end, I also share a few growth tips for threes and Mark talks about his new book, Double Blessing: How to Receive It. How to Give It.

Oct 17, 2019
Part 1, Reverend Becca Stevens on Resisting the Enneagram [S03-011]

Not everyone will rush toward the Enneagram with enthusiasm.  In fact, afraid of being labeled, some people can be really resistant to exploring the Enneagram at all. And that's the case with today's guest.  

In part one of this two-part series, Ian invites one of his favorite people, Reverend Becca Stevens, into the studio to talk about how the experience of trauma impacts personality, to discuss her resistance to the Enneagram, and to begin to explore which Enneagram type she resonates with.

And don’t forget to tune in next week as the conversation gets a bit deeper and we start to land on her type.

Becca Stevens is an author, a priest, and the founder and president of Thistle Farms, a global community of survivors of trafficking and addiction that includes justice enterprises. For her work as an entrepreneur and justice advocate, Becca has been named a White House Champion of Change, a CNN Hero, and holds numerous honorary doctorates. She has been featured on The Today Show, ABC World News, NPR and the New York Times. Her most recent book, Love Heals, was published by Harper Collins. Visit beccastevens.org and thistlefarms.org for further info.


Thank you to our sponsors HempFusion, BetterHelp, and Restoring the Soul.


Oct 10, 2019
Molly Fletcher on the Enneagram as a Game-Changer (Enneagram 3) {s03-010]

We live in a world where productivity is a huge emphasis on the lives of lots of people. But as productivity guru, Mike Hyatt advocates, the point of productivity isn't to get more done, it's actually to get more done efficiently so you have more margin to do the things that are more life-giving and make you a more whole person.

As children, Enneagram Threes pick up the message that they are only loved for what they do and how well they do it. In turn, Threes often tend to be competitive, success-oriented, multi-tasking machines who have difficulty slowing down. 

But what happens when Threes learn to trust that if they just stop working and stop moving that everything will still be taken care of?

Today’s guest, trailblazer Molly Fletcher, explains how her strengths as an Enneagram Three--drive to succeed, ability to connect with others, skilled multi-tasker--not only helped her thrive as one of the first female sports agents, but also became a liability until she learned how to slow down, relax, and be more intentional about turning it off.  

Molly Fletcher is a trailblazer in every sense of the word--a rare talent of business wisdom, relationship brilliance, and unwavering optimism. A popular keynote speaker, she shares the unconventional techniques that helped her thrive as one of the first female sports agents in the high stakes, big ego world of professional sports and now a successful entrepreneur.

Formerly, as president of client representation for sports and entertainment agency CSE, Molly spent two decades as one of the world’s only female sports agents. She was hailed as the “female Jerry Maguire” by CNN as she recruited and represented hundreds of sport’s biggest names, including Hall of Fame pitcher John Smoltz, PGA TOUR golfer Matt Kuchar, broadcaster Erin Andrews, and basketball championship coaches Tom Izzo and Doc Rivers.

As she successfully negotiated over $500 million in contracts and built lasting relationships, she also observed and adopted the traits of those at the top of their game. Molly shares her proven approach to negotiating in her company’s Game Changer Negotiation Training workshops, teaching people how to close more deals faster, while strengthening the relationship.

Molly has been featured in ESPN, Fast Company, Forbes and Sports Illustrated. A sought after motivational speaker, she delivers game-changing messages to top companies, trade associations, and teams worldwide.

Molly is the author of four books: Fearless At Work; A Winner’s Guide to Negotiating; The Business of Being the Best; and The 5 Best Tools to Find Your Dream Career.

Molly currently serves as a National Trustee member for the Boys & Girls Clubs of America and on the board of directors for the Intercollegiate Tennis Association (ITA) and the national advisory board for the Positive Coaching Alliance (PCA).

Molly earned a bachelor’s degree in communications from Michigan State University while captaining the women’s tennis team. Molly’s energy and passion for life shines through everything she does. She finds her greatest joy at home in Atlanta with her husband Fred and their three daughters.


Restoring the Soul


Oct 03, 2019
Jon and Tristen Collins on the Enneagram and Why Emotions Matter (Enneagram 5 and 2) [S03-009]

Each Enneagram type approaches feelings from a different angle.  Some types can be really in touch with their feelings, while others seem out of touch with their feelings. On today’s episode, our guests Jon and Tristen Collins join Ian to talk about “Why Emotions Matter.” As an Enneagram 5 and an Enneagram 2, you can imagine this married couple couldn’t be more opposite when it comes to their emotions. Tune in as Jon and Tristen explain how the Enneagram has helped them integrate the Enneagram Five’s tendency to keep their feelings to themselves and the Enneagram Two’s outward capacity for empathy and caring to build a stronger marriage and improve their relationships with others.  

Love this week’s episode?  Share Jon and Tristen’s episode on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter and be entered to win a copy of Jon and Tristen’s new book, “Why Emotions Matter.” 


About Jon and Tristen:

Jon Collins is a writer and creative director for The Bible Project. He has a BA in Biblical Studies from Multnomah University. Jon is affectionately known by the team as the Architect of Ideas. He is a master of making complex ideas simple and has spent the last decade founding and leading digital media and marketing companies.  Jonathan Collins | @jonpdx

Tristen Collins is a professional counselor with a focus on trauma recovery. She has 13 years of professional experience. Tristen teaches classes at Multnomah University in the graduate Counseling Department as adjunct faculty. She earned a Bachelor’s of Science in Bible & Theology from Multnomah University & a Master’s in Counseling from George Fox University. Tristen lives in Portland, Oregon with her husband, Jon, and their two young boys.

Sep 26, 2019
Enneagram and Coffee with Sarajane Case (Enneagram 7) [S03-008]

If you had to boil it down, Enneagram Sevens have an underlying fear that when it comes to pain and suffering, they will be unsupported. But in order to satisfy their unmet longing for completeness, for solidness, for wholeness, Sevens need to be able to stick with their sadness and discomfort long enough to work through it with others to foster the types of relationships that stand the test of time.

On today’s episode, Founder of Enneagram and Coffee, Sarajane Case, opens up about how the Enneagram has helped her navigate the joys and sorrows of life, release the grip on her high-vibration lifestyle, and enabled her to sit in the truth that she is not a solo traveler on life’s journey.

Sarajane Case is the Founder of 'Enneagram & Coffee' Instagram account & Podcast.  A writer, coach, and speaker based in Asheville, NC, Sarajane works with enneagram to teach self-love as well as to aid entrepreneurs in building a business that is not only profitable but enjoyable! 

Sep 19, 2019
Allison Fallon on Articulating Your Inner Landscape with the Enneagram (Enneagram 4) [S03-007]

Enneagram Fours have a unique awareness of their feelings and are highly attuned to their environment. Their gift of connecting deeply with others allows them to see the beauty in all things and to give language to experiences for which others can’t seem to find the words. 

Today’s guest, author Allison Fallon shares how merging the Enneagram with writing has not only helped her heal but has also helped so many others articulate their own internal landscape. 

Allison Fallon is a speaker, coach and author of 10 book, including her memoir Packing Light: Thoughts on Living Life with Less Baggage. Over the past 10 years, she has not only written prolifically, but has coached hundreds of authors to complete their creative projects through her in-person writing workshops, online courses and one-on-one support. She’s been featured on Huffington Post, RELEVANT magazine, and Donald Miller’s Storyline blog. Allison lives in Nashville, Tennessee.

Sep 12, 2019
Knox and Jamie on Pop Culture and the Personality (Enneagram 5 and 7)

Our guests today are hilarious, smart and up on the Enneagram.  Cohosts of the popular Popcast, Knox McCoy and Jamie Golden join Ian in a conversation about self-awareness, the dynamics of working together as an Enneagram 5 and 7, and how pop culture and personality play into each other.

Knox McCoy loves laughing and making people laugh. Really anything that’s laughter-adjacent, he’s into. He’s also super into the word “swashbuckling” and his dream is to one day use it in a bio. Knox began podcasting in 2011 as a way to talk more about popular culture, and to his extreme surprise, he’s still doing it every week on The Popcast with Knox and Jamie. Knox lives with his wife and three kids in Birmingham, Alabama, where he works as a screenwriter and as the swashbuckling cofounder of The Popcast Media Group.

Knox enjoys movies, football, food, and sleep and prefers them to all be in very close proximity to each other. One time, he saw Common at the airport and talked to him briefly. It was pretty sweet.

Jamie B. Golden has been co-hosting The Popcast with Knox and Jamie since August 2013. It is a nationally ranked, weekly pop culture podcast that’s part deep dive, mostly shallow end. Jamie and Knox also launched their newest podcast, The Bible Binge, in February 2018. Seasons 1, 2, 4, and 4 of The Bible Binge wrapped in the top 3% of all podcasts. Jamie has presented at TEDx, Mom 2.0, Dreamcatchers Conference, Southern Social Summit, See Jane Write, Permanency Conference and will be presenting at Alt Summit in March 2019. Jamie makes her home in Birmingham, Alabama, where she teaches monthly at Church of the Highlands and advocates for foster and adopted children serving as a volunteer for Heart Gallery Alabama.

Jamie enjoys good movies, even better TV, and Chris Pine represented in both. One time, she was hit by a naked drunk driver on the way home from a Walking Dead party. It was pretty sweet.

Sep 05, 2019
Part 2, Mike Pacchione on Public Speaking and the Enneagram [S03-005]

Last week, speaking coach Mike Pacchione walked through the speaking, or the communication styles, of the first three Enneagram types and how each type can leverage their gift and what to watch out for. Tune in today for part 2, as Mike and Ian cover how to tap into the strengths and avoid the pitfalls for types four through nine.

And, don’t forget to download Mike’s tips for public speaking by Enneagram type.  Just click below for your PDF of the key points for each of the nine types.


About Mike Pacchione

Since 2012, Mike has taught public speaking to nearly 10,000 people across the globe.

(Yes, he gives presentations about presentations. It’s very meta.)

His favorite thing in the world is helping someone with great ideas make those ideas come alive on stage.

(Cue name-dropping)

To that end, he’s helped Olympians such as Scott Hamilton, executives such as Donald Miller, Ryan Delk and Rachel Rodgers, online entrepreneurs such as Pat Flynn and Amy Porterfield, best-selling authors such as James Clear, and let’s not forget our dear friend Ian Cron. Mike also serves as the speaking coach for ConvertKit’s annual Craft + Commerce conference.

While Mike is not at liberty to name the remainder of his clients, suffice it to say that if you have used a computer, credit card or search engine today, you’ve been in contact with one of his past clients.

On a personal note: In 2016, he and his wife began helping a Congolese refugee family transition to life in the United States. It is some of his best and most challenging work. Ever think of how to explain voicemail to someone who’s never used a phone before? Neither had he.

Drop him a line at mike@miketalks.co. If you’d like to see pictures of speakers (sometimes), him sometimes), his family (sometimes) and his dog (often), follow @mpacc on Instagram.

Aug 29, 2019
Mike Pacchione on Public Speaking and the Enneagram, pt. 1 (Enneagram 9) [S03-004]

Have you ever thought about what makes a great speech or presentation? Whether you’re speaking to thousands this weekend, you're speaking to the Rotary Club, or you just want to be a better communicator in the workplace, your Enneagram type has a specific communication style that plays a part in your effectiveness or lack of effectiveness.  So how do you tap into those strengths and avoid the pitfalls?

Our guest today, speaking coach Mike Pacchione walks us through the speaking, or the communication styles, of all nine types and how each of those nine types can leverage their gift and shares some of the things to watch out for.

Mike’s also put together his great tips for public speaking by Enneagram type.  Just click below to review the key points for each of the nine types.



About Mike Pacchione

Since 2012, Mike has taught public speaking to nearly 10,000 people across the globe.

(Yes, he gives presentations about presentations. It’s very meta.)

His favorite thing in the world is helping someone with great ideas make those ideas come alive on stage.

(Cue name-dropping)

To that end, he’s helped Olympians such as Scott Hamilton, executives such as Donald Miller, Ryan Delk and Rachel Rodgers, online entrepreneurs such as Pat Flynn and Amy Porterfield, best-selling authors such as James Clear, and let’s not forget our dear friend Ian Cron. Mike also serves as the speaking coach for ConvertKit’s annual Craft + Commerce conference.

While Mike is not at liberty to name the remainder of his clients, suffice it to say that if you have used a computer, credit card or search engine today, you’ve been in contact with one of his past clients.

On a personal note: In 2016, he and his wife began helping a Congolese refugee family transition to life in the United States. It is some of his best and most challenging work. Ever think of how to explain voicemail to someone who’s never used a phone before? Neither had he.

Drop him a line at mike@miketalks.co. If you’d like to see pictures of speakers (sometimes), him sometimes), his family (sometimes) and his dog (often), follow @mpacc on Instagram.

Aug 22, 2019
Best of Season 2: Challenging Your Narrative with Ryan Stevenson [S03-003]

Though we can’t manufacture great conversations here on Typology, every now and then we do get to experience something deeply vulnerable and truly magical as we did in this episode with singer/songwriter, Ryan Stevenson.  On this episode, we really tackle the concept of owning your own narrative and challenge whether the interpretations of your own story are in fact true. And if they’re not, the Enneagram can help provide you with some clarity about the story you’re living in right now.

So, tune in as we celebrate the end of Season 2 with a replay of one of our favorite episodes. Then stick around through the end for a special treat as we share the new single, “Keep the Faith,” from our very own, Anthony Skinner’s new EP dropping today. For more information about Anthony and his latest projects, you can check out his website or find him on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook.  To get your copy of his new single, just click here.

Aug 15, 2019
Best of Season 2: Instincts and Subtypes with Aaron Niequist [S03-002]

With so many of our listeners asking about subtypes on a daily basis, we thought we'd celebrate the end of Season 2 with this replay of Aaron Niequist and Ian discussing instincts and subtypes and using them as another way to help hone in on your Enneagram type. 

Aaron Niequist has served as a leader at some of the most influential churches in the country. In 2014, he launched a neo-liturgical, ecumenical, practice-based service at Willow Creek in Chicago. He also created a series of liturgical recordings called A New Liturgy to help people create holy space wherever they find themselves. Niequist and his wife, bestselling author Shauna Niequist, live in the suburbs of Chicago with their two sons. For more information, visit aaronniequist.com and anewliturgy.com.

Aug 08, 2019
Dr. Richard Lindroth, Developing Your Emotional Side as an Enneagram Five [S03-001]

Others often perceive the interior world of the Enneagram Five, or The Observer, as mysterious.  Known to use the pursuit of knowledge as a defense against a world that seems unpredictable, The Observer can appear to not have or be in touch with their emotions. This is simply not the case.  In fact, The Observer is one of the most misunderstood Enneagram type in terms of emotions and relationships.  Enneagram Fives can actually have very intense emotions, but they just may not express them.  Listen as our guest, Dr. Richard Lindroth takes us into the interior world of The Observer.  He shows us how deeply attuned to beauty and transcendence he is, how he strives to overcome being emotionally distant from himself, and how he’s waking up to the emotional as well as the spiritual components of life.

Aug 01, 2019
Part 2 of Johnnyswim: The Enneagram and Abner (Type 7) and Manager Jay King (Type 4) [S02-052]

In part two of our interview with JOHNNYSWIM, Abner and Amanda’s manager Jay King joins the conversation and shares how the Enneagram has impacted their personal and working relationship.



As a unit, they face life’s ups, downs, highs, lows, trials, tribulations, tragedies, triumphs, and everything in between. They change, learn, and grow as one. However, Los Angeles band JOHNNYSWIM doesn’t just seem like a family; it is a family. At the core, husband-and-wife—Abner Ramirez and Amanda Sudano—translate the memories, moments, and milestones on their journey into spirited, slick, and soulful anthems steeped in singer-songwriter tradition, yet amplified by alternative experimentation, rock energy, and pop ambition.

The music moves as the couple’s life does, scrapbooking unforgettable experiences in melody like an eternal keepsake of their relationship.

In early 2017, JOHNNYSWIM commenced work on ideas for what would become their 2019 third full-length, Moonlight [Britannia Row Recordings/BMG]. Amidst a series of professional changes and Amanda’s pregnancy with their second child, they kick-started the next chapter."


Jason “Jay” King is the founder and owner of World Citizen Media and a twenty-year veteran of the music industry. He manages Los Angeles based duo JOHNNYSWIM, Propaganda, and Pop writer/artist TRELLA. World Citizen’s core mission is to help BUILD, LAUNCH, and ACCELERATE meaningful projects, with strong foundations, that contribute good back into the world.

Jay’s background includes working with renowned artists including Platinum-selling hip-hop group GRITS, 4th Avenue Jones, Hillsong United, Grammy award winner Israel Houghton, All Sons & Daughters, Fonzworth Bentley, Daniel Bashta, John Mark McMillan, Rhett Walker Band, and more. He has also worked alongside brands such as Tumi Luggage, Macy’s, Fiat, General Motors, Southwest Airlines, St. Jude, and more in order to bring campaigns for his clients to life.

He held the title of VP of A&R positions for both Gotee Records (Universal Music Group) and Integrity Music (Sony BMG) before establishing World Citizen Media.

Jul 25, 2019
Part 1 of Johnnyswim: The Enneagram and Abner (Type 7) and Amanda (Type 9) [S02-051]

What does it sound like when an Enneagram 7 (The Enthusiast) feels safe enough to reveal his true vulnerability?  Tune in as Johnnyswim’s Abner and Amanda explore their deeper side and talk with Ian about how the Enneagram has played a role in their relationship and their band.  This interview was so great we made it a two-part series, so don’t miss next week, when their manager Jay King jumps into the conversation as well.  They'll open up about how the Enneagram has helped them in their personal relationship and their working relationship.

Jul 18, 2019
Carey Nieuwhof on the Enneagram and Self-Leadership, part 2 (Enneagram 8) [S-2-050]

Last week we began our conversation on self-leadership with former lawyer and founding pastor of Connexus Church, Carey Nieuwhof.  In part two, Carey and Ian continue their discussion with tips on how leaders can manage anxiety and avoid burnout.

Carey Nieuwhof is a former lawyer and founding pastor of Connexus Church. He’s the author of several best-selling books, including his latest, Didn’t See It Coming, and speaks to leaders around the world about leadership, change and personal growth. The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast and Carey’s blog at www.CareyNieuwhof.com are accessed by millions of leaders each year.

Jul 11, 2019
Seven Core Challenges of Leadership, feat. Carey Nieuwhof (Enneagram 8) [S02-049]

How can leaders understand themselves and the world in which they live so they can be optimal in their various roles?  One of the first steps is to strengthen self-leadership because you can’t successfully lead others unless you can first lead yourself.  

In this two-part episode, former lawyer and founding pastor of Connexus Church, Carey Nieuwhof reveals the seven core challenges to leadership and how approaching these challenges through the lens of the Enneagram can help close the gap between who you are and how powerfully you lead your team.

Carey Nieuwhof is a former lawyer and founding pastor of Connexus Church. He’s the author of several best-selling books, including his latest, Didn’t See It Coming, and speaks to leaders around the world about leadership, change and personal growth. The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast and Carey’s blog at www.CareyNieuwhof.com are accessed by millions of leaders each year.

Jul 03, 2019
There's Power in Peace, feat. Lysa Terkeurst (Enneagram 9) [S02-048]

Enneagram Nines, or The Peacemakers, are adaptable, caring, supportive, and easygoing. Their "go with the flow" attitude acts as the manifestation of their need for internal and external peace at all times. To keep this peace, Nines often over-accommodate others in a unconscious effort to avoid conflict, and end up "falling asleep" to their own needs.

But today, Lysa Terkeurst, #1 New York Times bestselling author and Enneagram Nine, explains why it's important for The Peacemaker not to confuse the desire for peace with the disease to please. 

Jun 27, 2019
Leveraging Differences to Motivate Your Team with the Enneagram, Boosterthon's feat. Chris Carneal and Stan Holcombe (Enneagram 7 and 6) [S02-047]

Chris Carneal, founder and CEO of Boosterthon (Enneagram 7) plans for adventure while his CFO, Stan Holcombe (Enneagram 6) plans for dis-adventure.  So how have these two leveraged their differences to balance each other and grow their company 800% over the past eight years? 

They invest in the culture of their company.

Today, Chris and Stan join Ian to talk about how helping their team understand each other and creating a culture where self-awareness and self-knowledge are held up as values allow them to appreciate and bring out all the positive attributes of each individual while exponentially growing their business.

Jun 20, 2019
Michael Hyatt, Your Leadership Mentor and the Enneagram (Enneagram 3) [S02-046]

How do you measure success?  What does it look like and feel like?  Often, we measure success by how we appear to others or by the things we accomplish. But for Enneagram Three, Michael Hyatt, success is defined as freedom – the freedom to focus, the freedom to be fully present, and the freedom to be spontaneous.

Sounds great, right? But, how do we get there? 

The first step is to develop self-awareness and self-care as a leadership discipline.  Oftentimes leaders and entrepreneurs are so wired for productivity that they don’t stop to create a margin for self-reflection and self-care that leads to freedom.  

On today’s episode, Ian invites Michael Hyatt, best-selling Author and founder/CEO of Micheal Hyatt & Company, to share his tips for success and finding the balance between productivity and freedom.


Jun 13, 2019