The Holy Post

By Phil Vischer

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Category: Religion & Spirituality

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Subscribers: 1070
Reviews: 10

Gregg Chastao
 Nov 10, 2021
Is it Wednesday yet?

 Sep 22, 2021

David L
 Jan 28, 2021
My favorite podcast for years now.

Daniel Coutz
 Jul 30, 2020
I really appreciate Skye and Phil and sometimes Christian's thoughtful and light-hearted commentary on various news items and topics from a Christian worldview along with great interviews with Christian thinkers. Highly recommend.

Ann O'Neill
 Jan 15, 2020
I have been listening for 5 years and this remains my favorite podcast.


Join VeggieTales and What's in the Bible? creator Phil Vischer and co-host Skye Jethani (author, speaker, pastor) for a fast-paced and often funny conversation about pop culture, media, theology, and the fun, fun, fun of living a thoughtful Christian life in an increasingly post-Christian culture.

Episode Date
548 Andy Staley, Spirit Warriors & The Greatest Threat To Christianity

In a video clip from a sermon, influential megachurch pastor Andy Stanley said gay men and women who remain in the church “have more faith than a lot of you.” The backlash has been swift, but are people misunderstanding his point? And why do some Christians think shifting views on sexuality and gender are the greatest threat to the church, while others believe it’s Christian Nationalism and politics? Who’s right? And what does our view say about us? And a new article explains the rise of Spirit Warriors—the independent Christian “prophets” on YouTube mixing politics and spiritual warfare. Where did they come from, and how much influence do they really have?

Patreon Bonus: “Biblical Family 101 | Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess”


Holy Post merch store - 


News Segment

0:00 - Intro


3:46 - Tyre Nichols and tragedies


13:07 - Andy Stanley and threats to the American 




34:12 - Faithful Counseling

Get 10% off your first month at Faithful HOLYPOST


35:23 - The rise of spirit warriors 


1:01:52 End Credits


Links mentioned in news segment:

“Andy Stanley says gay churchgoers 'have more faith than a lot of you'”


“The Rise of Spirit Warriors on the Christian Right”

Jason Rugg’s next venture

Other resources:


Support us and find premium content by going to


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Feb 01, 2023
547 French Friday: Selling Out, Gay Wedding Websites, & How People Change

David French shares about his move to The New York Times, and why MAGA Conservatives call him a “sell out” when journalism on the far right is where the big money is found. Then, Skye and David discuss the 303 Creative case at the Supreme Court. Is creating a website a service or is it speech? The answer will determine whether the government may compel some religious businesses to support same-sex weddings. And new research shows diversity training is largely ineffective. Why do we continue to believe pre-packaged programs—both inside and outside the church—are how to change beliefs and behaviors?




0:00- Sponsor: Blueprint 1543


1:09 - Intro


2:23 - David French to New York Times


16:33 - Diversity Training


41:08 - 303 Creative


1:03:24 - End Credits


David French:


Links mentioned in interview

“David French Joins The Times as an Opinion Columnist” -


“The Most Important Thing You Read Today” -


“The Art of Compulsion” -

Other resources:


Support us and find premium content by going to


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 27, 2023
546 England’s Same-Sex Marriage Compromise & Brazil’s January 6th

The Church of England has decided to not allow same-sex marriages, but it will bless civil same-sex unions. Is it a wise compromise or terrible attempt to dodge a divisive issue? Brazil’s president lost reelection and his conservative Christian supporters stormed the capital. Is the American church exporting its nuttiness? New research from Gallop reveals which professions are the most and least trusted. Where do pastors land on the list? Plus, A.I. is causing layoffs for tech workers, Trump is angry at evangelical leaders, and broken Japanese toilets.


Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks... Why do we pray to God to not lead us into temptation?


Holy Post merch store - 


News Segment


0:00 - Intro

2:56 - News of the Butt

6:42 - Artificial Intelligence

10:18 - Church of England marriage blessing



27:43 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling

Get 10% off your first month at


28:59 - Capitol riots in Brazil

36:35 - Evangelical endorsements

42:29 - Ethics rankings

51:47 - End Credits

Links mentioned in news segment:


“‘See-through toilets’ malfunction in Shibuya” -'s%20Shibuya%20Ward%20announced%20Friday,see%20inside%20while%20in%20use.


“A news site used AI to write articles. It was a journalistic disaster.” -


“Alphabet cuts 12,000 jobs after pandemic hiring spree, refocuses on AI.” -


“Church of England: Gay couples can't marry but will receive 'God's blessing'” -


“Christians represented significant faction of capital rioters in Brazil” -


“Trump chides onetime evangelical supporters who haven’t endorsed him” -


“The New Ethics Rankings Are Out. Where Do Pastors Stand?” -

Other resources:


Support us and find premium content by going to


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.


Jan 25, 2023
545 What Story is the Bible Telling? with Timothy Gombis

What story are we in?  A rescue plan to get us out of a dying world?  God's mission to save us from sin?  Is my true purpose in life to "go to heaven and take as many people with me as I can?"  Is the Bible all about Jesus?  Phil sits down with the ever-provocative New Testament Bible scholar Timothy Gombis to talk about the BIG story of the Bible and God's plan for us that's even bigger than "rescue from sin."  After the interview, Skye and Christian join Phil to debrief and sing, in the words of a certain tomato, the "what have we learned?" song.


Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks “How should we use the Lord’s Prayer?”


Holy Post merch store - 


Interview with Timothy Gombis

Power in Weakness-

Paul: A Guide for the Perplexed -


0:00 - Intro
1:29 - Timothy Gombis Interview

7:07 - Labels and Categories

17:05 - Purpose in life

29:11- Defining evangelism

37:19 - Summarizing the Gospel



48:26 - Sponsor: World Relief

Join the Path -


50:26 Phil, Skye, Christian debrief 


1:08:36- End Credits


Other resources:


Support us and find premium content by going to


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 20, 2023
544: MLK, Reparations, & the Benefits of Awe

Martin Luther King Jr. is widely celebrated today, but that wasn’t the case when he was killed in 1968. Esau McCaulley’s editorial explains how King’s current popularity comes from the tendency to cherry pick a few MLK quotes about race, but conveniently overlook his more controversial sermons about poverty, justice, and reparations. What does it mean to take King’s words seriously today? Then, scientists have discovered the enormous psychological benefits of awe—the simultaneous feeling of overwhelming wonder and one’s own insignificance. But are they simply affirming what every religion has known forever, and why have evangelicals given up on awe-inspiring architecture? Plus, the remarkable longevity of a lost turtle.


Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks “How should we use the Lord’s Prayer?”

Holy Post merch store - 

News Segment

0:00 - Intro

3:33 - Animal News

11:14 - Martin Luther King, Jr. Discussion

18:33 - MLK continued; reparations


36:44 - Sponsor: Abide

Get 25% off your first year when you text HOLYPOST to 22433


38:03 - The value of AWE and WONDER


Links mentioned in news segment:

“Missing Pet Tortoise Found In Attic 30 Years Later — Still Alive And Well” -

“The Kind of Revolution That Martin Luther King Jr. Envisioned” by Esau McCaulley (New York Times Opinion) -

“How A Bit of Awe Can Improve Your Health” by Hope Reese (New York Times) -

Other resources:

The Divine Commodity by Skye Jethani -

Holy Post Race in America Video -

The Sum of Us by Heather McGhee -


Support us and find premium content by going to


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 18, 2023
543: Women and the Gender of God with Amy Peeler
When Damar Hamlin collapsed during Monday Night Football we witnessed an outpouring of public prayer. We also saw a flood of vaccine conspiracy theories hit social media. Phil asks, why are conservative Christians so distrustful of experts and enamored with fringe conspiracies? Then, David French has joined The New York Times. Progressives are upset about his Christian views, and conservatives are accusing him of selling out for acceptance among liberal elites. This launches the hosts into a broader discussion about the difference between principled pluralism and cultural accommodation. And Christian theologians universally agree that the God revealed in the Bible is neither male nor female, but Jesus was a man and he taught us to pray to “Our Father.” How do we reconcile these facts? Kaitlyn Schiess interviews Dr. Amy Peeler about her new book, Women and the Gender of God.
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
4:05 - Damar Hamlin and conspiracy theories
21:14 - Principled pluralism & cultural accommodation
46:22 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling
Get 10% off your first month at
Interview with Amy Peeler
"Women and the Gender of God" -
Amy Peeler -
47:36 - Guest intro
49:08 - About Amy Peeler
52:27 - Gender and God
55:41 - Inclusion in Christ
1:01:18 - Feminist criticisms
1:08:52 - Fatherhood language
1:16:05 - Masculinity and God
1:20:28 - Roles of women
1:29:23 - Credits
Links mentioned:
“David French Joins The Times as an Opinion Columnist” -
“David French and the Future of Orthodox Protestantism” by Carl R. Trueman (First Things) -
“Pluralism Isn’t Just for Political Losers” by John Inazu -
Holy Post website:
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Jan 11, 2023
542: How to Repair American Evangelicalism with Walter Kim

The pandemic was miserable for mothers, right? New research disputes that claim and shows moms were actually happier than childless women. But not ALL moms. What makes the difference? A survey shows both conservative and progressive Americans believe the absolute worst about each other. Is there any hope for healing the divide? What makes human leg muscles different from other primate species? Phil gets to the bottom of it. And Skye interviews Walter Kim, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, about what’s broken in the evangelical movement in America and how to repair it. Plus, drunk Santas crash a tank and hormonal Rwandan elephants.

Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: Liberation Theology 101 -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
1:30 - Kaitlyn’s trip
6:23 - Santas stuck in hedge
9:55 - News of the Butt
17:41 - “The Married-Mom Advantage”
35:14 - Partisan animosity
48:50 - Sponsor: Abide
Get 25% off your first year when you text HOLYPOST to 22433
49:55 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling
Get 10% off your first month at

Interview with Walter Kim
National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) -

51:05 - Walter Kim intro
52:57 - NAE’s biggest challenges
55:02 - Evangelical label
1:06:15 - Public discipleship
1:20:27 - Evangelicals and pluralism
1:27:30 - Priorities for NAE in 2023
Links and resources mentioned:
“Pub-crawling Santas get armoured vehicle stuck in Cornish hedge” (The Guardian) -

“Why Do We Have Butts?” (Gizmodo) -

“The Married-Mom Advantage” (The Atlantic) -
“Activism and Apathy Are Poisoning American Politics” by David French (The Dispatch) -

Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010 by Charles Murray -

Why We’re Polarized by Ezra Klein -

Percent of Babies Born to Unmarried Mothers by State -

Unmarried Childbearing (U.S.) -

“Presbyterian Church in America Leaves National Association of Evangelicals” (Christianity Today) -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 04, 2023
French Friday: Free Speech & Social Media

Voices on the right, from Elon Musk to Fox News, are accusing social media companies of violating the First Amendment's protection of free speech. David French is back to talk with Skye Jethani about what speech the First Amendment does, and does not, protect. And he explains why the decision of a private citizen or company, like Twitter, to remove content or limit free speech is not unconstitutional. They also debate what responsibility social media companies do have for the speech they allow on their platforms, as well as court cases in Texas and Florida that could dramatically change how social media functions for all Americans.

0:00 - Intro
2:15 - Free speech and social media
53:24 - Free speech and journalism
1:05:10 - Credits

"Elon Musk and Tucker Carlson Don't Understand the First Amendment" by David French (The Atlantic) -
"The 'Twitter Files' Show It's Time to Reimagine Free Speech Online" by David French (The Dispatch)

David French:
Holy Post website:
Holy Post Patreon:

Dec 30, 2022
541: Rethinking Heaven, the Harrowing of Hell, & Christian Civics with Michael Wear

or our final episode of 2022, we are sharing with everyone two bonus features that are normally exclusively available to Holy Post supporters. First, you’ll hear an episode of “Christian Asks” where Skye explains what the Bible says, and does not say, about what happens to us after we die. Then, we’re sharing one of the most popular episodes of “Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess” about the doctrine of the harrowing of hell. After that, Kaitlyn interviews Michael Wear, the founder and president of The Center for Christianity and Public Life.

0:00 - Intro
2:01 - Christian Asks... What actually happens after we die?
19:21 - Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: The Harrowing of Hell 101
52:23 - With God Daily
Interview with Michael Wear
Michael Wear -
The Center for Christianity & Public Life -

53:19 - Michael Wear intro
53:55 - Faith journey
1:01:46 - Politics journey
1:07:15 - Center for Christianity and Public Life overview
1:12:21 - Spiritual formation and policies
1:25:25 - Pre-2024 formation
1:30:09 - Credits
“He Descended to the Dead: An Evangelical Theology of Holy Saturday” by Matthew Y. Emerson -

“The Crucifixion: Understanding the Death of Jesus Christ” by Fleming Rutledge -

“Forsaken: The Trinity and the Cross, and Why It Matters” by Thomas McCall -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 28, 2022
540: Top Stories of ’22, “Tots of Scorn,” & the Naughty List with a Secret Guest

What were the most important stories of 2022? Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the embrace of Christian Nationalism, political and cultural issues dividing evangelicalism, and how Twitter has deteriorated into a middle school lunchroom food fight. They also discuss their predictions for 2023 including the frightening rise of A.I., and how a bus could bring Americans together. The hosts are also interrupted by an unexpected guest who wants to set the record straight about the War on Christmas, and why Phil is on the “Naughty List.” Plus, everyone’s favorite Christmas songs, hymns, and movies, and cows flee a live Nativity.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks... What is the biblical definition of “heaven”? -

0:00 - Intro
3:10 - Favorite carols and movies
7:32 - Cows escape nativity event
10:51 - Secret guest segment
25:39 - Stories from 2022
1:08:28 - Predictions for 2023
1:13:15 - Credits

“After cows escaped its live nativity event, this North Carolina church had a not-so-silent night” -

“Unitarians and Episcopalians Created American Christmas” by Daniel K. Williams (Christianity Today) -

“13 stranded strangers took a road trip to Knoxville - here’s what happened” -

“Nostradamus predictions 2023: World War III, new Pope, Mars landing and more” -

Mike Erre -

Mike Erre’s podcast -

Holy Post website:

Thanks to Patreon supporters for sitting in on the live recording of this week’s episode! For more information about our Patreon, visit:

Dec 21, 2022
539: Megachurch Christmas Controversy & Answers in Exodus with Carmen Imes

A Texas megachurch is facing criticism after a viral TikTok video showed a rehearsal of its Christmas production with drummers flying over the crowd on wires. The church says it’s simply offering its best to celebrate the birth of Jesus. Critics say it’s an extravagant violation of Jesus’ humble spirit. Who’s right? New data says Americans are far more isolated and lonely than ever before, and it’s not because of Covid. Is the church the solution or part of the problem? And a researcher offers three surprising explanations for why the decline of religion in the U.S. didn’t start until the 1990s. Then, Old Testament scholar Carmen Imes answers questions about the book of Exodus. Why did God harden Pharaoh’s heart? What does it really mean to take God’s name in vain? And how do all of the details about the tabernacle apply to Christians today?

Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: Mary 101 -

Holy Post merch store -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:49 - Megachurch Christmas production
21:12 - Loneliness
39:01- Why Americans are leaving their churches
53:29 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling
Get 10% off your first month at

54:35 - Sponsor: Biola University’s Talbot School of Theology
Visit for more information and to apply today.

Interview with Carmen Imes
BibleProject Classroom on Exodus -

Carmen Imes -

55:42 - Interview intro
57:16 - Why Exodus is important
58:55 - Pharoah’s heart being hardened
1:03:58 - Taking the Lord’s name in vain
1:10:54 - Tabernacle
1:19:05 - Golden calf story
1:26:05 - BibleProject Exodus course

Links mentioned in news segment:
Holy Post 529: Rapture Anxiety and Why Analog Discipleship is Better with Jay Y. Kim -

“Texas Megachurch responds to backlash over opulent Christmas show” (Houston Chronicle) -

“Americans are choosing to be alone. Here’s why we should reverse that” (Washington Post) -

“Why Americans are leaving their churches” (Religion News Service) -

Other resources:
“Bearing God’s Name: Why Sinai Still Matters” by Carmen Joy Imes -

Carmen Imes on YouTube -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 14, 2022
538: Rotten Pastoral Restoration & the Power of Pain with Drew Dyck

Reactions to last week’s show were strong. The Holy Post crew responds to listener feedback about LGBTQ representation in movies and Al Mohler’s defense of conservatism. Former SBC president, Johnny Hunt, was removed from ministry for sexual assault, but last week four ministry colleagues decided it was time to “restore” him. When should disgraced pastors return to ministry, and have congregational and non-denominational churches proven to be incapable of holding toxic leaders accountable? A new Twitter scandal offers more evidence that Christian Nationalism is a mask for racism and misogyny. Then, friend of the podcast Drew Dyck is back to recommend four books covering topics like the formative power of suffering, new medical research about addiction, the best way to read through the Bible, and a novel about Ireland in the 1980s. Plus, Drew’s war against fake Christmas trees.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks...Does God use calamities to discipline us? -

Holy Post merch store:

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
3:36 - Last week debrief
21:22 - Rotten pastoral restoration
31:25 - Christian nationalism and kinism
47:43 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling
Get 10% off your first month at

Interview with Drew Dyck
Drew Dyck -

48:49 - Drew’s Views intro
49:48 - Christmas trees
52:53 - Book 1: “Beautiful People Don’t Just Happen”
58:05 - Book 2: “The Myth of Normal”
1:14:20 - Book 3: “Small Things Like These”
1:18:44 - Book 4: “52 Weeks in the Word”

Drew’s book recommendations:
“Beautiful People Don’t Just Happen: How God Redeems Regret, Hurt, and Fear in the Making of Better Humans” by Scott Sauls -

“The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture” by Gabor Maté -

“Small Things Like These” (a novel) by Claire Keegan -

“52 Weeks in the Word: A Companion for Reading Through the Bible in a Year” by Trillia J. Newbell -

Other links mentioned:
Last week’s Holy Post episode, 537 -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 07, 2022
What in the World? EPISODE 4: The Mission of God

For more than a century, the American church has been arguing about the exact scope and boundaries of God’s mission. Is the gospel narrowly about the redemption of people’s souls, or does it also care about redeeming the world, society, and broken systems? In other words, is justice part of God’s gospel mission? The way we answer that question has massive implications for what work we believe ultimately matters. This debate has torn the American church apart, but it’s not one shared by many of our sisters and brothers around the world where a holistic vision of God’s mission is just assumed rather than contested. Pastor Luis Luna from Honduras joins Skye Jethani to discuss why he doesn’t separate the care of people’s souls, from the care of their bodies, or the reformation of society. And how this holistic approach to mission sometimes creates problems when well-meaning American Christians bring their narrow definition of the gospel to Central America.


“Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church” by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens -

0:00 - Intro

Interview with Luis Luna
2:41 - Luis’ community and immigration
7:51 - Americans and cross-cultural mission
16:45 - Collaborative vision of mission
20:08 - Social justice and the gospel
26:43 - Social reform

35:09 - Sponsor - World Relief
Join the Path:

Debrief with Matthew Soerens and Eric Costanzo
37:22 - Positive role of short-term missions?
43:15 - Measuring successful mission
47:25 - Systemic problems and changes
57:50 - Gen Z hope
1:02:54 - Credits

Other resources mentioned:
Association For a More Just Society -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 05, 2022
French Friday: The Case for Civil Same-Sex Marriage

In 2015, the Supreme Court ruled in Obergefell v Hodges that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marriage. With the recent overturning of Roe v Wade, some are concerned Obergefell may be overturned next. Recently, David French wrote an article supporting a bipartisan bill to protect the legal right to same-sex marriage, and he’s faced an avalanche of criticism for it. In this episode, he talks with Skye Jethani about the Respect for Marriage Act and responds to the critics who say the bill is a threat to religious liberty. French also explains why he’s changed his mind about civil same-sex marriage while remaining opposed to it theologically.

0:00 - Intro
00:28 - Respect for Marriage Act and David’s articles
28:37 - Criticism 1: Religious liberty protections
38:03 - Criticism 2: Cultural concerns
1:02:26 - Credits

“Pluralism Has Life Left in It Yet” by David French (The Atlantic) -

“Why I Changed My Mind About Law And Marriage, Again” by David French (The Dispatch) -

“The parable of David French” by R. Albert Mohler Jr. (World) -

“An Open Letter to Those Who Think I’ve Lost My Christian Faith” by David French (The Dispatch) -

David French:

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:



Dec 02, 2022
537: The War Over Christmas Movies & Gen Z’s Mental Health with Josh Packard

The Hallmark Channel is now producing Christmas movies with LGBTQ characters and relationships leading the network’s former CEO to launch a new holiday movie channel with straight relationships only. The Holy Post crew discusses the role of representation in entertainment, and why a number of recent LGBTQ-centric movies have bombed at the box office. Then, Al Mohler attacked David French for not opposing civil same-sex marriages leading Phil to ask whether Mohler is more interested in defending Christianity or just conservatism. And Skye talks with Josh Packard from Springtide Research about the mental health of Gen Z. New data says young people who engage in spiritual practices experience greater mental health, but they’re not the practices most congregations promote.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks...How do we practically live out holiness? -

New Holy Post merch -

News Segment
00:00 - Intro and updates
5:19 - The war over Christmas movies
34:42 - David French and Al Mohler
Interview with Josh Packard
Springtide Research Institute: Gen Z and Mental Health -

51:31 - Interview intro
52:35 - Big takeaways from recent findings
55:12 - Creating healthy environments
58:33 - Gen Z and spiritual practices
1:05:30 - Safety in faith communities
1:08:37 - Challenge vs despair
1:11:32 - Loneliness and connection
1:23:53 - Further resources
1:26:45 - Credits

Other links mentioned:
“The parable of David French” by R. Albert Mohler Jr. (World) -
“Candace Cameron Bure Wants to Put Christianity Back in Christmas Moves” (Wall Street Journal) -
Holy Post Episode 529: Rapture Anxiety & Why Analog Discipleship is Better with Jay Y. Kim -
Holy Post website:
Holy Post Patreon:

Nov 30, 2022
536: Listener Voicemails! Archeology, Abortion, & Avoiding Holiday Family Arguments

Just in time for the holidays, the Holy Post crew is answering another round of voicemails from our Patreon supporters. On this episode, Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn respond to listener questions about how much confidence to put in archeological evidence for the Bible, how did Christians interpret Revelation before the recent invention of "Left Behind" theology, when does satire and social media become sinful, what abortion policies could most Americans agree on, and how do you practice the Sabbath with a demanding job and young kids? Plus, they offer practical advice for avoiding arguments with your family about politics and religion during holiday gatherings.

Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: Creeds 101 -

New Holy Post merch -

00:00 - Sponsor: InterVarsity Press
Get 30% off “The Thrill of Orthodoxy” by Trevin Wax with code: THRILL30 at:

00:44 - Intro
6:08 - Ben: Holiday family conversations
11:55 - Brad and Carrie: Dispensationalism
22:58 - Millie: Mocking
25:51 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling
Get 10% off your first month at
27:05 - Cody: Healthy social media use
32:02 - Mark: Sabbath
36:08 - Ali: Archeology and the Bible
46:08 - Peter: How nations treat foreigners
52:03 - Trudie: Political thinking around helping the poor
1:02:31 - Yong: Policies around abortion
1:09:57 - Credits

Past episodes and other resources mentioned:
Holy Post Episode 244: Cultural Lies, Human Longings & the Gospel with Trevin Wax -

Holy Post Episode 410: White Privilege, Cancel Culture, & Reading Revelation with Juan Hernandez -

Holy Post Episode 506: The Pro-Life Case for Paid Family Leave with Rachel Anderson -

“The Millennial Maze” by Stanley J. Grenz -

“The Liturgy of Politics” by Kaitlyn Schiess -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Nov 23, 2022
Episode 535: What Does the Global Church Believe About Guns? with Morgan Lee

The U.S. midterm elections were full of surprises. The Holy Post crew asks if the political side of the pro-life movement has hit a wall, and if the Republican Party is really moving on from Donald Trump. Then, new data shows a sharp rise among evangelicals who didn’t attend college and who don’t attend church identifying as Republicans. What does it mean? And a new book chronicles the rise of Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens, and the rage-fueled conservative youth culture. Then, Skye talks to Christianity Today’s Morgan Lee about what global Christian leaders think about guns and self-defense. Her reporting on the issue reveals a wide spectrum of beliefs, how our perspective may be more cultural than biblical, and why dysfunctional governments elevate the appeal of guns. Plus, no one accidentally licks a toad.

New Holy Post merch -

Latest Patreon content:

Christian Asks... Salvation and the Sinner’s Prayer -

Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: The Church Calendar 101 -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
4:26 - Psychedelic toads
9:24 - Midterm election debrief
22:33 - Conservative youth culture
34:01 - New data on evangelical Republicans

42:44 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling

Get 10% off your first month at

Interview with Morgan Lee
“Should Christians Own Guns for Self-Defense? A Global Snapshot” (Christianity Today) -

Morgan Lee:

43:58 - Interview intro
47:42 - Article overview
51:38 - “God-given right to self-defense”
59:18 - Biblical basis for arguments
1:10:34 - Safe societies and effectiveness of government
1:14:42 - Credits

Links from news segment:
Christian’s film, “The Girl Who Wore Freedom” -

“Please stop licking psychedelic toads, National Park Service warns” (Washington Post) -

“How America’s conservative youth youth movement grew a powerhouse on the cult of rage” (Religion News Service) -

Data from Ryan Burge on evangelical Republicans -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

Nov 16, 2022
Episode 534: Does Ministry Matter More than the Marketplace? with Joe Leininger

With the midterm elections happening in the U.S., we’ve seen a rise in both hyperbolic political rhetoric and political violence. There’s evidence that fewer Christians are willing to denounce the use of armed conflict to achieve political goals, with some even arguing America was founded on it. Are they right? Is there a Christian case for political violence? Then, Skye interviews Joe Leininger, a Christian business leader about his journey from believing God only cared about ministry to a much wider vision of his work in the world. Leininger’s new book, “Dirt Clods and Donkeys: An experiment in mentoring that changed lives,” explores how he has helped other Christians in the marketplace develop a more integrated faith. Also this week—Indiana police pursue Pikachu, don’t kiss camels in Qatar, and Kaitlyn explains why she’s a nerd but not a geek.

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News Segment
00:00 - Intro
5:27 - Police pursue Pikachu
11:27 - Camels in Qatar
18:35 - Political violence
42:25 - Sponsor: Biola University’s Talbot School of Theology
Visit for more information and to apply today.
Interview with Joe Leininger
“Dirt Clods and Donkeys” -

Joe Leininger -
43:36 - Interview intro
46:09 - Formation in faith and business
51:28 - Christian assumptions about business
55:50 - A wider vision of God’s work in the world
1:01:45 - Capitalism
1:05:44 - Risk and allocation of resources
1:09:31 - Mentoring
1:14:10 - Credits
Links from news segment:
“Indiana man dressed as Pikachu ran from police on lawn mower, cops say” -

“World Cup fans told ‘steer clear of camels’ in Qatar due to bug ‘deadlier than Covid’ -

“Some American Protestants Aren’t Letting Go of Revolution” -

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Nov 09, 2022
Episode 533: Why Do We Struggle with the Sabbath? with Ruth Haley Barton

Elon Musk announced his takeover of Twitter by carrying a porcelain sink into the headquarters. Will his plan to loosen restrictions on social media help or hurt the country? Archeologist have discovered a new way to verify events in the Old Testament, but Phil wonders if anyone really cares. And is it ever loving for Christians to mock their opponents? The gang examines six rules for Christian mockery from the 17th century and why they may not apply today. Then, spiritual director Ruth Haley Barton explains how she came to see sabbath as a gift rather than an obligation. Her new book, “Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest,” looks at why we struggle to practice sabbath rest, the challenge of technology, and how to make sabbath a lifestyle and not just a weekly discipline. Plus, the saving power of worm spit.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks...How do we build unity around the cross? -

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News Segment
0:00 - Intro
5:08 - Worm spit
9:12 - Elon Musk and Twitter
18:57 - Geomagnetic fields and Biblical narratives
29:46 - Rules for Christian mockery

45:21 - Sponsor: Biola University’s Talbot School of Theology
Visit for more information and to apply today.

Interview with Ruth Haley Barton
“Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest: From Sabbath to Sabbatical and Back Again” -

Ruth Haley Barton -

46:33 - Interview intro
49:09 - Spiritual formation
52:59 - Value of sabbath
56:34 - Guilt around sabbath
1:00:47 - More than a day of rest
1:04:46 - Sabbath as delight
1:07:00 - Challenges of technology
1:17:55 - A communal practice
1:24:24 - Credits
Links from news segment:

“Worm spit could be a secret cure to the world’s plastic problem” (Inverse) -

“TAU, HU Scientific Breakthrough: Geomagnetic Fields Reveal Truth of Biblical Narratives” (Jewish Press) -

“Can you laugh at your enemies and love them? Rules for Christian mockery” (The Christian Post) -

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Nov 02, 2022
French Friday: What Abortion Abolitionists Get Wrong

With the Dobbs decision earlier this year, the Supreme Court sent the issue of abortion back to the states, and divisions are opening up within the pro-life movement about what comes next. A very vocal faction calling themselves "abortion abolitionists" are arguing for a complete ban on abortion in all cases, including where the life of the mother is at risk, and the criminal prosecution of women who have them. David French and Skye Jethani examine the abolitionists' arguments, explore why they are gaining popularity among Christians, and why they will actually fail to create the culture of life we want. Plus, French and Jethani engage in unrestrained nerdery as they discuss season one of "The Rings of Power."


00:00 - Intro
00:24 - Abortion abolitionists
56:02 - Nerd corner
Resources mentioned:
“Defending Life: A Moral and Legal Case Against Abortion Choice” by Francis J. Beckwith -

“How Americans Understand Abortion: A Comprehensive Interview Study of Abortion Attitudes in the U.S.” by Tricia C. Bruce -

David French:

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Oct 28, 2022
Episode 532: How Would Jesus Fight the Culture War? with Mike Erre

Research finds many Americans are opposed to the gospel because they view Christians as hypocrites, but a new $100 million ad campaign hopes to reintroduce Jesus to the country. But does Jesus really have a PR problem, or does the church have a discipleship problem? Then, culture war issues are fracturing evangelical colleges into 5 distinct groups. What does it mean for the future of the church?

Phil talks to pastor and podcaster Mike Erre about how to think biblically about the culture wars. Does the New Testament call the church to have power over the culture, how did Jesus influence others, and what about the presence of real evil in the world? Mike shares his 3 principles for Christians and the culture war. Plus, the Dutch are giving guns to robots. What could possibly go wrong?


Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: Halloween History 101 -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
1:52 - Robots with guns
8:22 - Ad campaign for Jesus
27:56 - Evangelical colleges and culture war issues50:04 - Sponsor: Biola University’s Talbot School of Theology
Visit for more information and to apply today.

Interview with Mike Erre
Voxology podcast:

51:20 - Guest intro
55:22 - Culture warring intro
56:53 - The role of the church in the world
1:09:36 - Providing a counter narrative
1:26:00 - Culture warring vs. the way of Jesus in culture

1:28:06 - Credits

Links from news segment:“The Netherlands Has Deployed NATO’s First Killer Robot Ground Vehicles” (Vice) -

Oakland Cops Hope to Arm Robots with Lethal Shotguns” (The Intercept) -

A $100 million ad campaign wants to fix Jesus’ image. His followers remain a problem.” (Religion News Service) -

“The Five Emerging Factions in Evangelical Higher Education” (Patheos) -

Links from interview:"American Evangelicals: Embattled and Thriving" by Christian Smith

Crazy: 10 years of podcasts, 1 song (by Phil Vischer) -

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Oct 26, 2022
Episode 531: What’s Wrong with Christian Nationalism? with Paul D. Miller

Everyone is suddenly talking about Christian nationalism. Some on the political right are embracing the label, while others on the political left are condemning it. Bart Barber, the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention, was interviewed on 60 Minutes this week to explain why Christian nationalism is fundamentally anti-Baptist. But Al Mohler, another influential SBC leader, is less eager to condemn Christian nationalism and takes a more nuanced view. Mohler also says any Christian who doesn’t vote for the Republican Party is being “unfaithful to God.” The Holy Post crew unpacks his argument. 

Then, Skye interviews Georgetown professor, Paul D. Miller, about his new book, “The Religion of American Greatness: What’s Wrong with Christian Nationalism.” Miller defines Christian nationalism historically, and explains why it is both anti-American and anti-Christian. Plus—When you give a pig a beer...

Bonus Patreon Interview with Paul D. Miller: Ukraine & Nuclear Armageddon -

0:00 - Sponsor: The Veritas Forum podcast

Listen to The Veritas Forum podcast to engage your heart and mind around the ideas that shape your life. Find it at

News Segment

00:44 - Intro

2:39 - Phil’s animation adventures

7:53 - Animal News

12:09 - SBC leaders on Christian nationalism


42:07 - Sponsor: Biola University’s Talbot School of Theology

Visit for more information and to apply today.


Interview with Paul D. Miller


“The Religion of American Greatness: What’s Wrong with Christian Nationalism” -


43:24 - Interview intro

44:57 - Paul’s background

47:59 - What is Christian nationalism?

49:42 - Critique of Christian nationalism

54:18 - Christian nationalism then and now

1:03:11 - Race and Christian nationalism

1:11:05 - Nationalism vs nationality

1:12:57 - Advice for spiritual leaders

1:17:29 - Credits

Links from news segment:

“Feral pig pinches multiple six-packs of beer and runs riot at Pilbara camp sites” -

Southern Baptist Convention President Bart Barber on Trump, abortion, sex abuse in the church and more (CBS) -

“The Guardrails” (The Run-Up podcast) -

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The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 19, 2022
Episode 530: Can We Still Trust the News? with Bonnie Kristian

Research now shows that people who constantly consume the news are three times more likely to hold incorrect perspectives than those who only consume news occasionally. How did the news business shift from reporting to distorting? Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss a new article that blames comedian Jon Stewart and The Daily Show for unintentionally transforming the media into a “subscription-based narrative production” business.

Then, Skye talks to journalist Bonnie Kristian about her book, “Untrustworthy: The Knowledge Crisis Breaking Our Brains, Polluting Our Politics, and Corrupting Christian Community.” She explains the economic and cultural forces that have warped journalism, and strategies that can help us avoid being misinformed. Also this week, Focus on the Family defends Christopher Columbus, and Phil reports on his latest Twitter skirmishes involving abortion and trans vegetables.

Bonus Patreon Interview with Bonnie Kristian: Three steps against conspiracism -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
4:11 - Phil's Twitter skirmishes
21:39 - Columbus Day
32:52 - Narratives in media

51:45 - Sponsor: Biola University's Talbot School of Theology
Visit for more information and to apply today.

Interview with Bonnie Kristian
"Untrustworthy: The Knowledge Crisis Breaking Our Brains, Polluting Our Politics, and Corrupting Christian Community" -

55:03 - Journalism over the past decade
57:23 - Knowledge crisis on the right and the left
1:00:13 - The perception gap
1:03:44 - Profit-driven news
1:09:18 - Social media and news
1:14:53 - Cancel culture
1:22:15 - Navigating media engagement
1:29:07 - Episode credits

Articles from news segment:

"Go Ahead and Celebrate Christopher Columbus, Who Sought to Tell the New World About Jesus Christ" by Paul Batura (Focus on the Family's Daily Citizen) -

"How Stewart Made Tucker" by Jon Askonas (The New Atlantis) -

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The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 12, 2022
Episode 529: Rapture Anxiety & Why Analog Discipleship is Better with Jay Y. Kim

Were you an evangelical kid in the 1970s, 80s, or 90s? Then you may be suffering from the lingering affects of “rapture anxiety.” Why did rapture theology feature so prominently in the American church, where did it come from, and why does it seem so bizarre to Christians today? Then, Russell Moore has a new article on the heresy of Christian Nationalism accusing it of doing to conservatives what the Social Gospel did to progressives a century ago.

Skye then talks to Silicon Valley pastor, Jay Y. Kim, about his book “Analog Christian: Cultivating Contentment, Resilience, and Wisdom in the Digital Age.” Kim says social media is designed to produce the opposite of the Fruit of the Spirit in us, and argues we need to “linger longer” in non-digital, incarnate spaces and relationships to combat its affects. Plus, don’t take a raccoon into a bar, and one tough Turkish toddler.

Bonus Patreon Interview with Jay Y. Kim -

News Segment
00:00 - Intro
2:08- Animal news
9:39 - Rapture anxiety
25:08 - Russell Moore on Christian nationalism

Interview with Jay Y. Kim
“Analog Christian: Cultivating Contentment, Resilience, and Wisdom in the Digital Age” -

39:51 - Interview intro
43:04 - Technology and cigarette analogy
46:41 - Spiritual formation in Silicon Valley
51:18 - Are mediums really neutral?
56:20 - Love vs. self-centric despair
1:06:04 - Lingering longer

Links from news segment:
“Woman who brought raccoon to North Dakota bar is charged” (ABC News) -

“Toddler Bites Snake to Death after It Sunk Its Fangs into Her Lip” (Newsweek) -

“For some Christians, ‘rapture anxiety’ can take a lifetime to heal” (CNN) -

“Christian Nationalism Cannot Save the World” by Russell Moore (Moore to the Point newsletter) -

Resources from interview:
“Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt (The Atlantic) -

“When Church Became Theatre: The Transformation of Evangelical Architecture and Worship in Nineteenth-Century America” by Jeanne Halgren Kilde -

“Analog Church: Why We Need Real People, Places, and Things in the Digital Age” by Jay Y. Kim -

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The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 05, 2022
French Friday: Is Evangelicalism about Jesus or Sexual Ethics?

David French is in studio with Skye Jethani and Phil Vischer for a special edition of French Friday. First, they discuss new survey results showing most evangelicals hold shockingly heretical beliefs about the nature of Jesus, but they are absolutely clear about sexual ethics. What does it mean for evangelicalism to make doctrine optional and sexual purity essential?

Then, comments from leading conservative voices appear to contradict core conservative values. Can conservatism still be defined, or has it deteriorated into a reactionary movement to “own the libs” and nothing more? Plus, David and Skye nerd-out about the new Amazon series, “The Rings of Power.”

0:00 - Intro

1:55 - Is evangelicalism about Jesus or sexual ethics?

26:24 - Can conservatism be defined?

57:57 - Nerd corner

Links and resources mentioned: The Dispatch -

“Evangelicals Decenter Jesus” by David French (The Atlantic Newsletter) -

“The American right’s future involves waging a ‘religious battle’ against the left, leaders say at a conservative conference” (NBC) -

Fuller Youth Institute -

“The Evangelical Question in the History of American Religion” by Kirsten Sanders (The Hedgehog Review) -

Holy Post episode 526 (includes discussion of above article) -

National Conservatism: A Statement of Principles -

“How Do Christians Fit Into the Two-Party System? They Don’t” by Tim Keller, 2018 (NYT) -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

Sep 30, 2022
Episode 528: Can Ancient Liturgy Save Evangelicalism? with Aaron Damiani
The death of Queen Elizabeth has many wondering about the future of Christianity in the UK. The Queen was outspoken about her faith in Jesus Christ, but how will King Charles change what it means for the monarch to be the “Defender of the Faith”? We all know evangelicals are divided by politics, but a new report by Catholic bishops says Roman Catholics are too. What can we learn from one another? Poverty among kids in the U.S. has declined dramatically in recent decades. Liberals say it’s the result of government programs. Conservative credit economic growth. Who is right?
Then, Anglican pastor Aaron Damiani talks with Skye about his journey from megachurch burnout to life-giving liturgy. His new book, “Earth Filled with Heaven,” is written to Christians skeptical about tradition, rituals, and sacraments, but they might be the key to saving evangelicalism from itself. Plus, why you shouldn’t drink coffee before shopping or trust ads featuring dogs.
Bonus Patreon Interview with Aaron Damiani - Https://
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
03:06 - Dog and cat marketing
9:42 - Drinking coffee before shopping
11:13- The Queen’s faith and Christianity in the UK
21:46 - Catholic church split by politics
30:36 - Child poverty has declined
Interview with Aaron Damiani
“Earth Filled with Heaven: Finding Life in Liturgy, Sacraments, and other Ancient Practices of the Church” -
43:55 - Background
47:47 - Megachurch burnout
52:14 - Liturgy and sacrament overview
59:38 - Misperceptions about liturgy
1:08:21 - Mitigating celebrity dynamics in the church
1:11:48 - Is this just another novelty?
1:15:08 - Credits
Articles from news segment:“Dog owners take more risks, cat owners are more cautious, research finds” by Lei Jia (Salon) -
“Drinking coffee before shopping could make you spend more” by Adam Barnes (The Hill) -
“US Catholic bishops’ report to the Vatican shows a church split by politics” by Claire Giangravé (Religion News Service) -
“Expanded Safety Net Drives Sharp Drop in Child Poverty” by Jason DeParle (NYT) -
Holy Post website:
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Sep 28, 2022
Episode 527: Does God Want Public Christian Symbols? & Non-Anxious Leadership with Mark Sayers

A court has ruled that a Christian-owned business is not required to pay for health insurance that includes drugs to prevent HIV. Is the ruling a victory for religious liberty, or a case of Christians unfairly imposing their beliefs on others? In an effort to “bring God back into public schools" Taxes now requires schools to display “In God We Trust” signs. But what happens when the sign is in Arabic? Southern governors are shipping undocumented immigrants North. But is their goal to actually solve the immigration crisis, or are they using vulnerable people for a partisan stunt? Then, pastor and culture-watcher Mark Sayers is back to talk about his new book, “A Non-Anxious Presence.” He says we’ve entered a new cultural era riddled with anxiety and uncertainty that Christian leaders relying on the previous era’s models are not equipped to handle. Drawing from Friedman’s family-systems theory, Sayers argues we must learn to patiently resist the unhealthy people in our communities, endure sabotage, and fundamentally rethink our definitions of success. Plus, annual awards for hilarious scientific achievements.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks...Do we actually know what happens the moment we die?

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:52 - Bizarre scientific awards
11:04 - Religious freedom and health insurance coverage
23:13 - Public Christian symbols
38:39 - Southern governors sending migrants north

58:23 - Sponsor: Abide

Get 25% off a premium Abide subscription by texting “holypost” to 22433

Interview with Mark Sayers
“A Non-Anxious Presence: How a Changing and Complex World Will Create a Remnant of Renewed Christian Leaders” -

Mark Sayers -

1:00:18 - Mark Sayers intro
1:02:49 - Anxiety in a gray zone
1:06:26 - Friedman’s systems theory and culture
1:08:35 - How leaders can bring health
1:15:39 - Comfort and escapism
1:22:22 - Leading with God’s presence
1:27:42 - Credits

Articles referenced in news segment:
Ig Nobel prize winners -

“A Texas Judge Just Took Religious ‘Freedom’ Too Far” (Bloomberg) -


“Southern governor sending migrants north face a crisis of faith” by Jonathan Merritt (Religion News Service) -

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The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Sep 21, 2022
Episode 526: Was the Constitution Divinely Inspired? with Kaitlyn Schiess

The water crisis in Jackson, Mississippi, was foreseeable and preventable. Did white evangelicalism's anti-government attitude contribute to the catastrophe? Washington Post columnist Michael Gerson has yet another take on the evangelical infatuation with Trump. Do we need any more? And a recent article by theologian Kirsten Sanders says we’ve entered a new era of evangelicalism where online influencers are shaping the movement more than pastors or institutions. Then, Skye and Kaitlyn discuss the belief held by some American Christians that the Constitution was inspired by God. Where did this view come from? Why is it dangerous? And why is it finding new popularity today? Plus, Phil plops a headline.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
4:54 - News of the Butt headline
6:10 - Jackson water crisis
17:52 - Another article on evangelicalism and Trump?

54:22 - Sponsor: Abide
Get 25% off a premium Abide subscription by texting “holypost” to 22433

Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess
55:40 Getting Schooled intro
57:57 - Divine inspiration of the Constitution - overview
1:15:24 - Dangers of holding this view
1:22:54 - Resources

Resources from Getting Schooled:
“We the Fallen People” by Robert Tracy McKenzie -

“The Bible in Politics” by Richard Bauckham -

“Every Leaf, Line, and Letter” edited by Timothy Larsen -

Articles mentioned:
“Jackson water crisis deepens as state deploys National Guard” -

“Trump should fill Christians with rage. How come he doesn’t?” by Michael Gerson (The Washington Post) -

“The Evangelical Question in the History of American Religion” by Kirsten Sanders (The Hedgehog Review) -

Join us on Patreon for more episodes of Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess and other great bonus content!

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The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Sep 14, 2022
What In the World? EPISODE 3: The Word of God

The Bible is one of God’s most important gifts to his people. Through it we discover who he is and become equipped to follow him in the world. But rather than a source of unity, for many Christians the Bible is a point of conflict and division—especially when we fail to recognize the difference between the Bible and our cultural interpretation of the Bible. My guest today, Lanre Williams-Ayedun, says one of best ways to overcome this danger is by engaging our sisters and brothers from other parts of the global church. When we listen to how they read the Scriptures, it can both illuminate things we’ve never seen before and make us more humble about our own grasp of God’s word

“Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church” by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens -

Interview with Lanre Williams-Ayedun

0:00 - Intro
2:32 - Engaging Scripture globally
11:47 - Learning from the global church
18:50 - Celebrity pastors outside U.S.
22:31 - Engaging outside your context
26:58 - Scripture and cultural lenses
30:57 - Scripture and justice

35:09 - Sponsor - World Relief
Join the Path:

Debrief with Matthew Soerens
37:06 - Diverse voices speaking into Scripture
45:17 - Healthy skepticism of cultural lenses
48:33 - Other resources

53:21 - Credits

Resources mentioned:
“Brown Church: Five Centuries of Latina/o Social Justice, Theology, and Identity” by Robert Chao Romero -
“Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope” by Esau McCaulley -

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The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Sep 09, 2022
Episode 525: Why Don’t Evangelicals Care About the Climate? & American Extremism w/ Bob Roberts Jr.

Historically, evangelicals have been the group of Americans most resistant to taking action against climate change. The National Association of Evangelicals hopes to change that. Phil, Christian and Skye discuss the NAE’s new report and their attempt to ground environmental care in the biblical call to love your neighbor. Will it work?

Then, the Most Interesting Evangelical in the World, Bob Roberts Jr., is back to talk about extremism. For over 20 years he has been a trailblazer in the peacemaking and international religious freedom arenas, and has studied how extremism takes root. That’s why Roberts says what’s happening in America right now is terrifying, and warns the church that remaining silent about conspiracy theories, political hate speech, and Christian Nationalism is not an option. Plus, a pumpkin regatta and tomatoes hit the road.

News Segment

00:00 - Intro
5:00 - Phil's mistakes
10:41 - Tomatoes hit the road
17:37 - Evangelicals and climate change


45:13 - Sponsor: Abide
Get 25% off a premium Abide subscription by texting “holypost” to 22433

Interview with Bob Roberts Jr.

Bob Roberts Jr. -

Bold Love Podcast -
GlocalNet -

46:37 - Bob Roberts Jr. interview intro
48:51 - Extremism in America
56:01 - Defining Christian nationalism
1:00:21 - The church's call
1:22:10 - Hope in this moment
1:26:31 - Credits

Other resources and links mentioned:

"Evangelical group releases climate change report, urges a biblical mandate for action" (Religion News Service) -

"Dobson, Others Seek Ouster of NAE Vice President" (Christianity Today, March 2007) -

Megan Basham tweet -

Holy Post Episode 456: Why We're Divided & Positive Pluralism with Bob Roberts -

Holy Post Episode 172: Dude Ranches in Texas with Guest Bob Roberts -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

Sep 07, 2022
Episode 524: Debt Forgiveness & Developing an Integrated Faith with Rich Villodas

Immediately after President Biden announced his college loan forgiveness plan Christians started debating it. Some are arguing that debt forgiveness is deeply biblical, while others say it’s completely immoral. Who’s right? Or, are both sides missing the point? Then, Phil is still processing the last French Friday episode about why so many politically active evangelicals see policy goals as absolute and Christian virtues as flexible. He offers his theories. Skye then talks to pastor Rich Villodas about his conversion, his early spiritual formation, and how he’s avoided the pitfalls of pastoral ministry. His new book is “Good and Beautiful and Kind: Becoming Whole in a Fractured World.” Plus: Row, row, row…your pumpkin?

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:48 - Pumpkin boat recording
13:36 - French Friday follow-up
29:27 - Debt forgiveness

Interview with Rich Villodas
“Good and Beautiful and Kind: Becoming Whole in a Fractured World” -

48:11 - Rich Villodas interview intro
49:54 - Rich’s background and early spiritual formation
1:03:59 - Mentors
1:11:11 - The church today
1:13:38 - Self-differentiation
1:18:27 - Coaching pastors and leaders
1:23:42 - Advice for church leaders
1:27:43 - Credits

“‘Gourdspeed.’ 60-year-old paddles 38 miles in huge pumpkin to set record, photos show” -

French Friday: De-Radicalizing the Church & Learning from Atheists -

“Christian Political Ethics are Upside-Down” by David French (The Dispatch) -

Tony Perkins interview that Phil references -

“Republicans Opposing Student-Loan Relief Are Forgetting the Biblical Tradition of Debt Forgiveness” by William J. Barber II and Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove (Time) -

“Is There a Christian Case for Biden’s Debt Relief Plan?” by David French (The Dispatch) -

“Best of: Cancel America’s Student Loan Debt! But How?” podcast episode (The Argument, NYT) -

Rich Villodas:

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Aug 31, 2022
French Friday: De-Radicalizing the Church & Learning from Atheists

In a recent article, Russell Moore lamented the captivity of evangelicals to conspiracy theories and political radicalization, but he argued “the problem is not in the pulpit” and “the problem isn’t primarily in the pews either.” Instead, he believes the radicalization is happening outside the church. David French and Skye Jethani agree that radicalization is happing outside the church, but say there is also a real problem in the pews. What role do churches and pastors have in de-radicalizing evangelicals, and what’s preventing them from speaking up and doing more? Then, French shares about a pro-life atheist who positively influenced his own values. That leads to a wider discussion about the importance of forming relationships with and engaging the ideas of those we disagree with. Rather than seeking the safety of never being challenged, welcoming the discomfort of divergent voices will provoke us toward growth and maturity.

0:00 - Intro

00:50 - De-radicalizing the church

38:11 - Learning from atheists

1:05:14 - Credits

"Christian Political Ethics are Upside-Down" by David French (The Dispatch) -

"When the South Loosens Its Bible Belt" by Russell Moore (Christianity Today) -

"There Is a Secular Case for Life" by David French (The Dispatch) -

"The Gift of Pain" by Paul Brand and Philip Yancey -

"What in the World?" Holy Post miniseries -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

David French -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Aug 26, 2022
Episode 523: Cultivating a Curious Faith with Lore Ferguson Wilbert
Two things are simultaneously true about America: More Americans than ever before are abandoning religion, and America remains the most devoutly Christian industrialized country in the world. Today's episode navigates this tension. First, a recent article by Helen Lewis says non-believers still have religious impulses that are now being expressed through political activism. Is Christian faith being replaced by Wokism on the left and Nationalism on the right? Then, David French asks why our politics are so toxic and hateful if both parties are still dependent on devoutly Christian voters. What will it take for believers on both sides to put Christian virtue ahead of just winning elections? And Kaitlyn Schiess talks to Lore Ferguson Wilbert about her new book, “A Curious Faith: The Questions God Asks, We Ask, and We Wish Someone Would Ask Us.” She says too many Christian communities discourage curiosity while the Bible is “a permission slip to ask questions.” Plus, scientists are growing animals in artificial wombs without eggs or sperm. What could possibly go wrong?
Patreon Bonus - Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: The Harrowing of Hell 101 -
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
4:07 - What could possibly go wrong?
15:20 - Is social justice a new religion?
30:46 - Christian political ethics
Interview with Lore Ferguson Wilbert
"A Curious Faith: The Questions God Asks, We Ask, and We Wish Someone Would Ask Us" -
48:37 - Lore Ferguson Wilbert intro
50:02 - Why we struggle with questions
57:27 - Joy in questions
1:03:54 - Questions in Scripture
1:13:47 - Facing life's questions
1:20:09 - Jesus' humanity
1:25:50 - Credits
Other articles and resources mentioned:
"Synthetic embryos grown from stem cells don't need sperm or eggs" -
"How Social Justice Became a New Religion" by Helen Lewis (The Atlantic) -
"Christian Political Ethics Are Upside Down" by David French (The Dispatch) -
"Overland to the Islands" poem by Denise Levertov -
Holy Post website:
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Aug 24, 2022
Episode 522: The New Secular South & Celebrities for Jesus with Katelyn Beaty

Evangelicals are no longer the largest religious group in the South. Russell Moore says they’ve been replaced by a dangerous new kind of southern secularism. These MAGA-vangelicals don’t attend church, don’t follow the moral teachings of the Bible, and are fixated on politics and conspiracy theories but still call themselves “Christians.” What role does the church have in mitigating the danger of this new sect? Plus, a church in Texas faces legal trouble for performing an evangelistic revision of the musical Hamilton without a license. Then, Katelyn Beaty is back to discuss her new book Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits are Hurting the Church. She explains why we keep manufacturing more Christian celebrities despite their high failure rate, and why accountability structures aren’t enough. Also this week, Phil eulogizes Freya the walrus, and a man sues after five years of flatulence.

Patreon Bonus with Katelyn Beaty: The ugly side of Christian publishing -

News Segment
2:45 - Freya the walrus update
9:42 - News of the Butt
15:25 - Church production of Hamilton
25:55 - The new secular south
42:48 - With God Daily

Interview with Katelyn Beaty
“Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits are Hurting the Church” -
44:10 - Interview intro
46:15 - Why this book?
50:45 - Fame vs. celebrity
58:13 - When accountability doesn’t work
1:04:27 - Celebrity and an illusion of intimacy
1:13:29 - Christian celebrity and discipleship
1:19:41 - Credits

Other articles and resources mentioned:
“When the South Loosens its Bible Belt” by Russell Moore (Christianity Today) -

“Fighting Flesh and Blood” by Kristin Du Mez -

“A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing” by Laura McKnight Barringer and Scot McKnight -

News of the Butt -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Aug 17, 2022
What in the World? EPISODE 2: The Image of God with Vinoth Ramachandra

What does it mean to see others as image-bearers of God? How is this warped by American individualism? And what happens to justice when we abandon God for idols—false images of God? Based on the book Inalienable by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens, in this episode Skye Jethani (co-host of The Holy Post) talks to Sri Lankan Christian leader Vinoth Ramachandra about the intersection of idolatry and mission. He explains how what we worship shapes us and our work in the world in unexpected ways, and that he believes the American church needs to admit to and repent of its idols.

“Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church” by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens -

0:00 - Theme song and intro
Interview with Vinoth Ramachandra
2:19 - Idolatry
5:35 - Idol of individualism
12:42 - Idolatry and injustice
18:25 - Idolatry’s appeal and antidote
24:45 - Confronting idolatry faithfully
29:49 - Sponsor - World Relief
Join the Path:

Debrief with Eric Costanzo and Daniel Yang
31:45 - Debrief start and recognizing our idols
36:58 - Moving beyond fear of pushback
41:13 - Engaging outside of our contexts
46:45 - The idol of Christian nationalism
54:42 - Credits

Other resources mentioned:
International Fellowship of Evangelical Students -“Gods That Fail: Modern Idolatry and Christian Mission” by Vinoth Ramachandra -

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Aug 12, 2022
Episode 521: Flirting with Fascism & Can Christians Be Patriots? with Richard Mouw

For centuries Americans have valued their liberty, but a growing number of conservatives are now saying cherished values like the freedom of speech, religion, and the press have allowed progressive beliefs to destroy the culture. In response, some Republicans and conservative Christian thinkers argue it’s time to abandon these failed American ideals and copy the fascist, illiberal strategies of leaders like Hungary’s Victor Orban to stop immigration, fight wokism, and to ensure the government supports Christian beliefs.

Then, a new article about the separation of families at the Southern border brings Phil to tears, and he pleads with evangelicals to not allow Trump near the presidency again. Skye interviews Dr. Richard Mouw about his new book, “How to Be a Patriotic Christian: Love of Country as Love of Neighbor.” They discuss godly versus idolatrous forms of patriotism, what the Bible says about the proper role of government, and debate whether churches should display flags and sing patriotic hymns. 

Bonus Patreon news story -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
3:38 - "How the American Right Fell in Love with Hungary"
39:22 - Trump administration's family separation policy

54:24 - With God Daily

Interview with Richard Mouw
"How to Be a Patriotic Christian: Love of Country as Love of Neighbor" -

55:48 - Interview intro
57:10 - Talking with evangelicals about patriotism
59:27 - Defining Christian nationalism
01:01:07 - Healthy patriotism and familial language
1:04:26 - Romans 13 and governmental authority
1:17:49 - Patriotic symbols in worship services
1:30:59 - Credits

Other articles/resources mentioned:"How the American Right Fell in Love with Hungary" (The NYT Magazine)-"

The Secret History of Family Separation" (The Atlantic) -

Holy Post website:
Holy Post Patreon:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Aug 10, 2022
Episode 520: Phil & Skye Answer Listener Voicemails
Aug 03, 2022
French Friday: The New God Gap & Discipled by Trump

For decades, political strategists spoke about the "God gap" in which white religious believers were more Republican and white non-believers more Democratic. Recent data shows a new God gap emerging within the Democratic Party. David French explains how secular white progressives are now pushing religious Black and Latino voters out of the Democratic coalition. Then, Jethani and French explore how Trump has discipled the church more than the church has discipled Trump. There's growing evidence that cruelty, dishonesty, and a refusal to repent are being embraced by Christians aligned with Trump. Will this trend self-correct and what will be its legacy on our culture?

0:00 - Theme song and intro

0:46 - The new God gap

31:33 - Discipled by Trump

1:00:33 - Credits

"The God Gap Helps Explain a 'Seismic Shift' in American Politics" (The Dispatch) -

"There Is No Remaining Christian Case for Trump" (The Dispatch) -

Jul 29, 2022
Episode 519: How Reaganism Won the Church & Skye’s New Book

Phil has another "crazy theory," and Skye and Kaitlyn aren't sure what to make of it. What if 1964 is one of the hinge points in American history? 1964, as Phil explains, was the year a Catholic housewife from Illinois and a mid-tier movie star from Hollywood attempted to put an Arizonan libertarian in the White House. Their effort failed, but in the process did they actually plant the seeds that would remake both America and the American church??

Give a listen as Phil spins the story of three unlikely people he believes "made" modern conservatism inside and outside the American church... Barry Goldwater, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. You don't have to agree. Just humor him.

PLUS Kaitlyn interviews Skye about his new book - What if Jesus was Serious About the Church?

Holy Post Patreon:

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:53 - Background and context for Phil's theory
6:54 - Person 1: Barry Goldwater
12:07 - Person 2: Phyllis Schlafly
20:14 - Person 3: Ronald Reagan
35:35 - Debriefing Phil's theory

Interview with Skye Jethani

"What If Jesus Was Serious About the Church?" -
53:06 - Interview intro
54:45 - Why prescribe something for the church?
57:55 - How we use the word "church"
1:02:38 - Finding a church
1:06:29 - Preacher vs. table
1:17:53 - Authority in the church
1:23:59 - Seeking change within a church community1:30:01 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases

Jul 27, 2022
Episode 518: Christian Nationalism Round-Up & Disability Justice with Amy Kenny

With Trump out of office and the pandemic restrictions eased, Christian Nationalists are looking for new causes to rally the MAGA faithful. The Holy Post crew looks at the latest stories from these holy trollers including Michael Flynn’s incoherent argument that the Bible “wrote” most of the Constitution. A new exposé of MAGA worship leader Sean Feucht by Rolling Stone shows his ministry, which has one employee, has raised millions in donations and purchased three houses. And Jemar Tisby offers a useful definition of Christian Nationalism that reveals why it’s not Christian at all. Then Kaitlyn Schiess interviews disabled scholar and Shakespeare lecturer, Amy Kenny, about her book My Body is Not a Prayer Request: Disability Justice in the Church. Together, they unpack overlooked or misinterpreted passages in the gospels about disabilities, and Kenny explains why the church is missing out on the prophetic witness and blessing of disability.

News Segment:
0:00 - Intro
3:56 - Rolling Stone article on Sean Feucht
13:37 - Michael Flynn on the Bible and the Constitution
15:38 - 7 Mountain Dominionists event
24:30 - What do we do about Christian nationalism?
34:37 - Jemar Tisby's definition of Christian nationalism
38:50 - PRRI stat on addressing common problems
48:00 - Holy Post announcements
Interview with Amy Kenny
"My Body is Not a Prayer Request: Disability Justice in the Church" -
49:51 - Amy Kenny Intro
51:08 - Book background
55:01 - Damaging things Christians say
1:00:13 - Theological errors
1:02:50 - Disability and Scripture
1:20:26 - How churches can think differently about disability
1:26:24 - Credits

Articles mentioned in news segment:

"MAGA Preacher Sean Feucht Scored Millions From His Trump-Loving Flock" (Rolling Stone) -

"Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn Says 75-80% of the Constitution was ‘Created by the Bible Itself’" (Mediaite) -

"The 7 Mountain Dominionists converge on Duluth, Georgia" by John Fea (Current) -

"Christian Nationalism's Influence on American Politics" (with Jemar Tisby, NPR) -

PRRI stats on prioritizing political cooperation to solve common problems -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jul 20, 2022
What in the World? EPISODE 1: The Kingdom of God with Ruth Padilla DeBorst

How big is the scope of the gospel? What does God's kingdom include? And what happens when we discover the American church isn’t the center of it? Based on the book Inalienable by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens, in this episode Skye Jethani (co-host of The Holy Post) talks to theologian and missiologist Dr. Ruth Padilla DeBorst. With extensive experience in the Latin American church, Padilla DeBorst explains how popular American Christianity misunderstands the Kingdom of God, and how seeking the wisdom of the global church can guild the American church through its current crisis.

"Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church" by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens -

0:00 - Theme song and intro
Interview with Ruth Padilla DeBorst
2:46 - Misunderstandings and assumptions about Christians in the Global South
7:41 - Power and privilege
13:39 - Theologies of liberation
18:10 - Immigrants in the American church
21:06 - Is partnership possible?
25:05 - Celebrity leader dynamics
31:32 - Learning from another contextSponsor:
35:21 - World Relief sponsorship
Join the Path:

Debrief with Matthew Soerens and Daniel Yang
37:18 - Debrief intro
39:18 - U.S. short-term missions
41:25 - Daniel's family experience
44:13 - Communal culture
49:15 - Laying down preferences
55:35 - The good and the bad in American influence1:01:18 - CreditsResource referenced by Daniel Yang:
GlocalNet -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jul 15, 2022
Episode 517: Can the Global Church Save the American Church? with Matthew Soerens

A network of global Christian churches have decided to combat climate change by divesting from gas and oil companies. But why aren’t any Protestant American churches participating, and do climate activists care that efforts to replace fossil fuels disproportionately harm the poor? And a new article by Beth Allison Barr examines the difference between the political pro-life movement and the biblical pro-life ethic.

Then, Matthew Soerens is back to discuss the new book he’s co-authored with Eric Costanzo and Daniel Yang, “Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church.” As white evangelicals lose their grip on cultural and political power in the U.S., Soerens says they may discover how to follow Christ more faithfully from sisters and brothers in the global church who never had power to begin with. Plus, New Zealand taxes bovine burps.

Send us a voicemail!

News Segment
0:00 - Intro and updates
5:04 - Bovine burps
10:39 - Churches combatting climate change
18:08 - Capitalism and poverty
32:03 - Women left behind by the pro-life movement

50:59 - Sponsor: One Collective
Learn more:
52:55 - Sponsor: World Relief
Join the Path:

Interview with Matthew Soerens

"Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church" by Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, and Matthew Soerens -

54:51 - Matthew Soerens interview intro
57:10 - Challenges in the evangelical American church
1:05:56 - Changing the boogeyman
1:11:38 - Looking to the global church
1:16:48 - U.S. immigration and refugee policies
1:22:04 - "What in the World?" Holy Post miniseries
1:24:54 - Credits

Articles referenced in news segment:
"New Zealand announces world-first plan to tax cow and sheep burps" (NPR) -

"Global faith institutions announce divestment..." (Operation Noah) -[…]es-threaten-1-5c-climate-goal-with-reckless-expansion-plans/

"MIT Scientists Propose 'Space Bubbles' to Deflect Solar Radiation, Ease Climate Change" (Popular Mechanics) -

"The Women Left Behind by the Pro-Life Movement" by Beth Allison Barr (Religion & Politics) -

Resources mentioned in interview:
"American Evangelicalism: Embattled and Thriving" by Christian Smith -

Episode 1 of our "What in the World?" miniseries will be out Friday, 7/15 in the regular Holy Post podcast feed!

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jul 13, 2022
Episode 516: A Boomer and a Millennial on the Future of the Church with Nancy Beach & Samantha Beach Kiley

Although the Religious Right is on a winning streak at the Supreme Court, data shows it’s losing in the court of public opinion. Gallop reports more Americans than ever no longer believe in God, and only a minority of Americans share the political and cultural beliefs of conservative evangelicals. The Holy Post crew responds to a Jesuit priest’s article wondering if overturning Roe was worth the costs, and congresswoman Lauren Boebert says the church should be running the government. But which church does she have in mind? Then Skye talks to mother and daughter, Nancy Beach and Samantha Beach Kiley, about their book “Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church.” Nancy pioneered the seeker-driven megachurch movement at Willow Creek, but also experienced its toxicity and collapse. Her daughter, Samantha, is now a pastor seeking to apply the lessons—both positive and negative—from her megachurch upbringing to a new generation. Plus, the New York Supreme Court makes a jumbo ruling.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks... Angry mobs and the end times -

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:21 - Christian’s travelogue and other updates
5:45 - Happy the Elephant
14:03 - More SCOTUS rulings
23:27 - Christian Right losing in public opinion
30:38 - Costs of overturning Roe
46:07 - Americans’ belief in God is dropping

52:19 - Faithful Counseling

Interview with Nancy Beach and Samantha Beach Kiley

“Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church” -

Nancy Beach -

Samantha Beach Kiley -

56:04 - Relevance and trust
1:03:24 - Beyond content delivery
1:08:02 - Experiencing other traditions
1:10:59 - Blind spots and overcorrecting
1:18:00 - Church leadership culture
1:27:42 - Credits

Articles referenced in news segment:
“Happy the elephant is not a person, New York’s highest court rules” -

“The Christian Right is winning in court while losing in public opinion” (NPR) -

“What has the demise of Roe v. Wade cost the Catholic Church?” by Thomas Reese (Religion News Service) -

“Poll: Americans’ belief in God is dropping” -

Resource mentioned in interview:
“The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters” by Priya Parker -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Jul 06, 2022
Episode 515: America After Roe & Pursuing Shalom with Amy Sherman
Phil and Kaitlyn are finally back from (separate) trips to Europe, but they’re returning to a very different America. The Supreme Court has officially overturned Roe and ended the Constitutional right to abortion. What’s good about the decision? What’s concerning? And why is it increasingly unacceptable to have a nuanced understanding of this issue? Then, a new article by Ronald Brownstein says America’s relative unity in the 20th century was an anomaly, and the country may be heading toward a permanent split. Can the union be saved?
Skye then talked to Amy Sherman, the author of our Holy Post Book Club selection, “Agents of Flourishing: Pursuing Shalom in Every Corner of Society.” Sherman says we need a larger, more biblical vision of God’s redemption, and we must recapture what it means for Christ’s people to be a “royal priesthood” in parts of the culture often overlooked by the church. Plus, Phil’s European report includes wild horses, naked Dutch men, and a frustrating lack of Diet Coke.
Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess, Faith & Capitalism 101 -
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
1:28 - Kaitlyn’s travelogue
6:54 - Phil’s travelogue
20:03 - America after Roe
44:28 - America growing apart
Interview with Amy Sherman
Amy Sherman -
“Agents of Flourishing” -
57:07 - Amy Sherman intro
59:02 - Jeremiah 29:7
1:05:27 - Royal priesthood
1:10:08 - Community endowments
1:13:24 - Understanding flourishing
1:24:09 - Ethics and Christian influence
Other resources referenced in episode:
“Roe Is Reversed, and the Right Isn’t Ready” by David French (The Dispatch) -
“America is Growing Apart, Possibly for Good” by Ronal Brownstein (The Atlantic) -
“No Future Without Forgiveness” by Desmond Tutu -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Jun 29, 2022
French Friday: School Choice & the Future of the GOP

The Supreme Court has ruled that the state of Maine cannot exclude private schools from its voucher program simply because they are religious. David French explains the ruling and how it fits into decades of pro-religious liberty wins. Skye Jethani asks how the courts define “religion” and why secular philosophy has an unfair advantage in public schools. Then, the January 6th hearings are revealing how people within Trump’s party and administration thwarted his attempts to reverse the outcome of the election. They’ve testified about his lies and his illegal actions. So why do so many of them say they’ll still vote for him in 2024? French and Jethani discuss how the GOP can move on from Donald Trump, why that’s unlikely, and the challenges facing both parties in the next election.

0:00 - Intro
00:38 - Carson v. Makin and school choice
32:23 - Jan. 6th hearings and future of the GOP
1:06:38 - Credits

“Mike Pence and the Christian Conflict on January 6” by David French (The Dispatch) -

David French:

Jun 24, 2022
Episode 514: How Politics Poisoned the Evangelical Church with Drew Dyck & David Kinnaman

A recent article in the Atlantic reveals how the political polarization in the United States is now tearing evangelical churches apart. And Marvin Olasky, the former editor of World Magazine, writes about the dramatic change he witnessed among evangelicals over his long career. Drawing from thousands of letters he received, Olasky concludes, “The Republican party platform has become more important than the gospel for many who identify as evangelicals.” Special guest co-host Drew Dyck joins Phil and Skye to discuss the articles. Then, president of Barna research, David Kinnaman, is back with more stats to unpack. With a record number of pastors thinking seriously about quitting, and political polarization listed among the top reasons, Kinnaman says the church is facing a crisis of discipleship. He believes we need a political theology that’s rooted in the gospel rather than partisanship. But is it too late? Also this week, fear over climate change is making progressives question the morality of having kids. And, South Korean college students are flush with cash.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
4:24 - News of the Butt
9:54 - Climate change and having kids
20:15 - How politics poisoned the evangelical church
30:47 - Evangelical Christianity in the age of Trump

57:08 - World Relief

59:04 - Faithful Counseling

Barna Brief with David Kinnaman
1:00:14 - Barna Brief intro
1:01:32 - Data on pastors considering quitting
1:04:23 - Reason 1: Stress of job
1:06:20 - Reason 2: Loneliness
1:09:54 - Reason 3: Political division
1:21:05 - Good news in this data?
1:29:42 - Credits

Barna Brief links:
Barna Group, Faith Leadership in a Divided Culture
Resilient Pastor Cohort (discount code is HOLYPOST15):
“The Resilient Pastor” by Glenn Packiam -

News segment links:

“South Korean Toilet Allows Students to Pay With Their Poop” -

“Your Kids are Not Doomed” by Ezra Klein (NYT Opinion) -

Andrew Walker tweet -

“How Politics Poisoned the Evangelical Church” by Tim Alberta (The Atlantic) -

“The Sixty Years’ War: Evangelical Christianity in the Age of Trump” by Marvin Olasky (National Review) -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jun 22, 2022
Episode 513: Guns Again & Learning to Read the Bible with Jo Saxton and BibleProject

Responses to the mass shootings in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas, have continued, and there’s renewed hope for policy changes. This week, Jo Saxton joins Phil and Skye as a guest co-host to discuss a series of articles from African-American and global Christian leaders about the need to rethink both America’s gun policies and the American church’s gun culture.

Then, BibleProject co-founders, Jon Collins and Tim Mackie, talk with Skye about how their work has shifted from just teaching what’s in the Bible to teaching people how to read the Bible. Their new app and podcast series is designed to help us see the Bible as brilliant literature, and not just a depository of quick answers to life’s problems. Also this week, should we be concerned that more people are having wedding ceremonies to marry themselves?

Holy Post merchandise -
Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: Political Theology 101 -
BibleProject Patreon Bonus -

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
4:10 - Sologamy??
13:49 - Guns in the home
20:39 - Guns and cars
26:00 - Global perspective on America’s gun culture
36:12 - Gun violence and the theology of evil
44:52 - Guns and church
54:44 - Holy Post Announcements

Interview with Jon Collins and Tim Mackie
BibleProject App:
BibleProject Podcast:
57:09 - Jon Collins and Tim Mackie interview intro
1:00:26 - BibleProject shift toward how to read the Bible
1:06:39 - Bible literacy in America
1:19:38 - Literary beauty in the Bible

Articles mentioned in news segment:

“Sologamy: India woman’s plan to ‘marry herself’ sparks debate” -

“Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home”

“What would it mean to treat guns the way we treat cars?” (Vox) -

“This Love of Guns: It’s Way Beyond Our Understanding” by Matthew Soerens (Christianity Today) -

“What Supporters of Gun Rights Mean When They Talk About ‘Evil’” by Esau McCalley (NYT Opinion) -

“White Churches, It’s Time to Go Pro-Life on Guns” by Charlie Dates (Christianity Today) -

Jun 15, 2022
Episode 512: Christian Self-Defense & Church-Based Deconstruction with Mike Erre & Lina AbuJamra
Christians who oppose more restrictive gun control policies say we have a God-given constitutional right to self-defense. But is there any evidence to back this claim? With Christian and Kaitlyn both in Europe, Phil and Skye invite Mike Erre from the Voxology podcast to fill the empty co-host chair. Mike looks at the biblical texts cited by gun advocates and says that even if self-defense can be justified, for the Christian it is not a “right.”
Then, Skye talks to Lina AbuJamra about her book, “Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to Faith in an Age of Deconstruction.” Like so many, AbuJamra entered a season of significant doubt not because of anti-Christian messages from the culture, but after experiencing a toxic leadership culture at her church. She shares what restored her faith, the danger of false expectations, and why honesty about our disillusionment is the first step. Also this week—California declares that bees are fish, and scientists accidentally create murder hamsters. What could possibly go wrong?
Holy Post 10th Anniversary Merch:
News Segment:
0:00 - Intro
4:18 - Bees are fish
9:11 - Murder hamsters
14:55 - Re: French Friday episode on gun control
19:39 - Constitutional right to self-defense?
27:05 - Biblical right to self-defense?
46:53 - Thoughts and prayers
51:28 - Faithful Counseling
Interview with Lina AbuJamra:
“Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction” -
52:38 - Lina AbuJamra intro
54:44 - Journey that led to deconstruction
1:02:20 - False expectations
1:08:10 - American evangelical leadership crisis
1:15:23 - Honesty in disillusionment
1:24:56 - Credits
Other resources mentioned:
Voxology podcast -
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Jun 08, 2022
French Friday: Debating Gun Control

*Please be aware that this episode deals with sensitive topics, including suicide and child/adolescent mortality.*

In the wake of the elementary school massacre in Uvalde, Texas, David French and Skye Jethani spend the whole episode debating what can be done to curb gun deaths in America. While they find some agreement around “Red Flag” laws and making gun owners liable for the misuse of their weapons, French doesn’t support an assault weapons ban or requiring training and evaluation before purchasing a gun. With guns now the leading cause of death for kids and teens in America, Skye says it’s time for Christians to explore all possible solutions, including amending the Constitution, similar to the pro-life movement’s approach to ending abortion. David French says the 2nd Amendment must be protected as a basic human right. Both agree, however, that the status quo is not acceptable.

Holy Post episode 423: “Is America’s Gun Culture a Blessing or Curse? with David French” -

“Pass and Enforce Red Flag Laws. Now.”-

Guns are now the leading cause of death for American children” -

Advisory Opinions episode: “Mass Shootings and the Law” -

Jun 03, 2022
Episode 511: America’s 400 Million Guns & Saving Humanity from Technology with Andy Crouch

The United States has experienced another horrific school shooting, and the country is once again debating guns. Will this time be any different? Phil asks why the U.S. is incapable of passing sensible gun regulations like Australia did 25 years ago, and why do so many evangelicals support America’s gun culture and the 2nd Amendment with religious-like devotion? Skye then interviews Andy Crouch about his new book about the dehumanizing effects of technology. Crouch says we are drawn to tech the same way the ancients were tempted by magic. Both offer the promise of “effortless power,” but it always comes with a cost. And he says we should look to early Christianity for ways to restore dignity and personhood to our culture. Plus, critical listener responses to our recent Roe v Wade episode.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:22 - Critical listener responses
Holy Post episode 508: No More Roe? & the New Scandal of the Evangelical Mind -

20:58 - Baby formula
22:26 - America’s guns
Kaitlyn’s tweet:

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted” -

Holy Post episode 423: Is America’s Gun Culture a Blessing or Curse? -

Interview with Andy Crouch“The Life We’re Looking For: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World” -

51:11 - Andy Crouch intro
53:47 - Technology and magic
59:29 - Media and superpowers
1:14:39 - Early Christianity and personhood
1:26:10 - Interview wrap-up

1:28:42 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jun 01, 2022
Special Episode: The Movie Proposal 130 - Operation Mincemeat

0:00 - Intro
1:57 - Something Old - Josh’s: About a Boy

5:57 - Something Old - Skye’s: Patton

9:09 - Something New: Operation Mincemeat

10:32 - Josh’s Proposal
“I propose Operation Mincemeat is a good example of using fiction to tell a true story.”

16:11 - Skye’s Proposal
“This is another one of those movies that proves truth is stranger than fiction and sometimes even more compelling.”
23:04 - Something Borrowed - The True Story Behind Netflix’s Operation Mincemeat & Movies from the Mountaintop

32:12 - Something Blew - Jason’s: The Prestige TV Podcast (Barry Recaps)
34:50 - Something Blew - Josh’s: Home Before Dark
39:48 - Something Blew - Skye’s: The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel & George Carlin’s American Dream

45:59 - Outro

Follow The Movie Proposal crew on Twitter: SkyeJosh & Jason

Find The Movie Proposal on Facebook

May 27, 2022
Episode 510: The SBC Report and Rethinking Sexual Ethics with Christine Emba

The independent report about the cover-up of sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention has been released, and it’s far worse than anyone expected. What does it mean for the SBC and American evangelicalism in general? And Phil asks if there’s a difference between engaging in godly cultural transformation and fighting a culture war. Was William Wilberforce a culture warrior? And when are we really seeking change, and when are we just virtue signaling?

Then, Kaitlyn welcomes Washington Post opinion columnist and editor, Christine Emba, to discuss her new book “Rethinking Sex: A Provocation.” After interviewing dozens of young adults, Emba concludes that evangelical purity culture has problems, but so does the secular message of sex positivity. Instead, she draws from Christian theology and tradition to propose an ethical framework that goes beyond consent alone. Plus, Phil refuses to be concerned about an invasion of aggressive jumping worms.

News Segment:
0:00 - Intro
3:07 - Jumping worms
9:36 - SBC Report
32:06 - Culture wars or transformation?Sponsor:
48:32 - Faithful Counseling

Interview with Christine Emba

“Rethinking Sex: A Provocation” -

“Consent is not enough. We need a new sexual ethic.”-

49:41 - Christine Emba intro
52:00 - Book background
54:28 - Misdiagnosing the problem
58:30 - Purity culture versus uncritical sex positivity
1:04:14 - Interviews within book
1:13:35 - Dating app culture
1:24:28 - Willing the good of the other
1:29:12 - Credits

Resources mentioned in news segment:
“Southern Baptist leaders covered up sex abuse, kept secret database, report says” by Sarah Pulliam Bailey (The Washington Post) -

“Southern Baptists Refused to Act on Abuse, Despite Secret List of Pastors” by Kate Shellnutt (Christianity Today) -

“This Is the Southern Baptist Apocalypse” by Russell Moore (Christianity Today) -

“The Gift of Pain” by Paul Brand and Philip Yancey -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

May 25, 2022
Episode 509: The War on Winsomeness & Interfaith Cooperation with Eboo Patel

Despite the uproar over the leaked Supreme Court decision overturning Roe, it turns out 80 percent of Americans have a nuanced view of the issue. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss responses to last week’s show and ask why are we nuanced about some moral issues and absolutist about others. Then, conservative Christians are attacking Tim Keller for his winsome, non-partisan approach to Christianity. They say winsomeness may have worked in the past, but now the culture war is so dangerous that we need a more aggressive and offensive approach. Are they right? Skye interviews Eboo Patel, the founder and president of Interfaith America, about his new book “We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy.” Patel, a Muslim-American, talks about the transformative role Christianity had on his calling, why interfaith cooperation is essential, and what concerns him about the current culture of activism in America. Plus, scientists discover the Mariah Carey of jellyfish.

“Christian Asks” Patreon Bonus:

News Segment

0:00 - Intro and updates
Christian’s documentary -
3:29 - News of the Butt
10:03 - Responses to last week’s show
17:03 - Nuance versus absolutism
28:55 - Tim Keller and the war on winsomeness55:26 - Holy Post Patreon

Interview with Eboo Patel“We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy” -
Interfaith America - https://www.interfaithamerica.org57:30 - Eboo Patel - intro
59:20 - Background and calling
1:14:13 - Culture of activism in America
1:26:45 - Interfaith cooperation1:31:49 - CreditsResources and articles mentioned in news segment:
ProGrace: prograce.orgHoly Post Episode 254: Rethinking Our Response to Abortion with Angie Weszely -“America’s Abortion Quandry,” Pew Research Center -“Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt - Keller Twitter thread - Wood, “How I Evolved on Tim Keller” - D. James, “Is it Time to Move Past Tim Keller?” - French, “A Critique of Tim Keller Reveals the Moral Devolution of the New Christian Right” Dreher, “Tim Keller & Myxomatosis Christians” -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

May 18, 2022
Episode 508: No More Roe? & the New Scandal of the Evangelical Mind with Mark Noll

The leak of a draft ruling by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade has the entire country talking. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the overreactions from both the Left and Right, speculate about what a post-Roe America might look like, examine the complicated history of abortion including why many evangelicals originally supported Roe but then dramatically flipped on the issue, and share their hopes for what comes next.

Then, acclaimed historian Mark Noll talks about the 30th anniversary of his influential book, “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind.” In the early 1990s, Noll celebrated the strength of the evangelical church, but he warned about a dangerous shortage of evangelical scholars. Today, he fears the opposite. While evangelical scholarship has never been stronger, Noll is deeply concerned about an anti-intellectual church taken with conspiracy theories and partisan politics.

Patreon Bonus segment:

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:31 - Supreme Court leak - initial reactions
8:49 - Changing views on abortion within evangelical Christianity
19:29 - Overreactions on both sides
33:48 - Upsides
42:55 - Downsides
47:32 - “The Southernization of the Pro-Life Movement”
Resources mentioned:
Advisory Opinions podcast - “Making Sense of the Supreme Court Leak”
Part 1:

Part 2:

“If Roe is Overturned, Where Should the Pro-Life Movement Go Next?” by Tish Harrison Warren -

“Apocalypse Now: How the Left and Right Get Danger Wrong” by Michael Wear -

“This Really Is a Different Pro-Life Movement” by Daniel K. Williams -

57:22 - Faithful Counseling

Interview with Mark Noll
“The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind” -

58:32 - Mark Noll intro
59:33 - Updated version - why now?
1:02:19 - Christian higher education
“We the Fallen People” by Robert Tracy McKenzie -
1:08:50 - Fundamentalism and fear
1:15:33 - Evolution and CRT
1:26:08 - Christian curiosity
1:30:19 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

May 11, 2022
Episode 507: Dubuque, Demons, & Defying Patriarchy (Part Deux) with Beth Allison Barr

In the 1980s, Frank Peretti’s best-selling novels about the spiritual war between angels and demons captivated evangelicals, but they also fostered a belief that anything out of step with conservative white Christianity was downright satanic. The podcast crew discuss their own experiences with Peretti’s books and how they’ve shaped today’s culture war—including a congresswoman’s recent statement that Catholics helping immigrants is proof the church is run by Satan. Then, Beth Allison Barr is back one year after the release of her provocative book “The Making of Biblical Womanhood,” to discuss what she’s learned from her critics as well as from her fans. And she offers pastoral advice for those struggling in patriarchal Christian communities. Plus, a family finds a tasty time capsule in their bathroom wall, and the underappreciated charms of Dubuque, Iowa.

Patreon Bonus:

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:24 - Dubuque travelogues
8:10 - Tasty time capsule

16:49 - Fantasy novels and satanic conspiracies

46:56 - Patreon bonus plug

Interview with Beth Allison Barr

“The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth” book - to book -

47:53 Intro
48:31 - Journey with book
55:39 - History and theology
58:58 - Untangling cultural elements in scripture
1:03:29 - Hindsight and reflection on critiques
1:12:46 - Role of social media
1:15:59 - Three FAQs
1:22:17 - Hope?

1:25:09 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

May 04, 2022
French Friday: Football Prayer & CRT Hysteria

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments in a case about a public high school football coach who prays on the field. Is he violating the First Amendment because he’s a state-funded employee engaging in religious activity on the job? Or, is his religious expression protected by the First Amendment? David French explains the court’s history on public school teachers and free speech, why he thinks the coach is likely to win, and why religious liberty protections have never been stronger. Then, French talks about his first encounter with Critical Race Theory as a law student at Harvard 30 years ago. Skye asks, if CRT has been around for so long, why is it only now being seen as a threat to both America and Christianity? French explains how the definition of CRT has changed, how it’s been leveraged by media voices on the political right since 2020, and why the issue of race may be leading to a new schism in the American church.

00:00 - Intro

00:45 - Football Prayer “Why We Fight About Football Prayers” -

31:07 - CRT hysteria “How the Fight Over Critical Race Theory Became a Religious War” -

“Racial Compromise and Complicity at Grove City College” -

1:04:05 - Credits

Apr 29, 2022
Episode 506: The Pro-Life Case for Paid Family Leave with Rachel Anderson

The battle between Governor DeSantis and Disney is heating up in Florida. The culture war may be good for politicians, but why is it bad for Christians? Then, a former White House spokesperson says if Christians want to win the culture war they need to have more babies. Kaitlyn and Skye explain why that strategy contradicts the New Testament. Phil looks at Grove City College’s anti-CRT statement and why the school’s attack on Jemar Tisby amounts to revisionist history. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Rachel Anderson from the Center for Public Justice about her advocacy for paid family leave, why the policy is proven to reduce abortions, and how it fits with Christian theology and ethics. Plus, Phil is building a big beautiful wall.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro
6:15 - DeSantis vs. Disney
25:36 - Christian babies and culture wars

38:07 - Grove City College and Jemar Tisby

47:57 - Faithful Counseling

Interview with Rachel Anderson
Center for Public Justice:
Families Valued Policy Resources:

49:08 - Interview intro
53:28 - Paid family leave policies overview
1:01:51 - Theological framework for paid family leave
1:04:25 - Defining family and its purpose
1:07:43 - Difficulties in implementing paid family leave policy in US
1:11:12 - Citizenship as a collective activity
1:16:22 - Resources

Apr 27, 2022
Episode 505: Stupid Social Media & Learning to Love While Offended with Albert Tate

In a lengthy article in The Atlantic, social psychologist Jonathan Haidt explains how social media has made our entire society more stupid in the last decade, and compares the disunity it’s causing to the Tower of Babel. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the article and what can be done to reverse the trends. Then, pastor Albert Tate talks about his new book, “How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation.” By sharing personal stories, Tate says we must learn to live with being offended, commit to community, and love anyway. Plus, teenage gorillas are getting too much screen time.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro and updates
3:03 - Fasting from whiteness

6:16 - Gorillas, teens, and screen time
13:35 - Stupid social media
“Why the Past 10 Years of American Live Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt -

Holy Post episode 495 with Robert Tracy McKenzie-

Unbelievable? The Conference -

Interview with Albert Tate
Albert Tate -
“How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation” -

47:51 - Interview intro
49:42 - Committing to community
53:48 - Loving while offended
1:00:07 - When to stay and when to leave
1:04:29 - Generational trauma/injustice and generational privilege
1:18:09 - Hope for the American church
1:24:48 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Apr 20, 2022
Episode 504: Political Worship Rallies, Trump’s Racial Topography, & New Picks from Drew Dyck

Conservative political rallies and protests are increasingly using Christian worship music. How is this different than the role of faith in the Civil Rights movement, and why should Christians on all sides be cautious about attaching God’s name to their activism? Then, new data says Trump’s presidency dramatically altered attitudes about race and prejudice in America. And Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn respond to listener questions about last week’s episode on Disney and LGBTQ representation. Then, author and editor Drew Dyck is back for another round of media recommendations. This installment of “Dyck’s Picks” includes a book on deconstruction, some Easter-themed poetry, and a TV drama with something to say to the church about ethics and the culture war. Plus, beware of un-Lucky Charms.

News Segment:
0:00 - Intro
With God Daily:

5:22 - News of the Butt

8:10 - Listener responses to last week’s episode

20:25 - Political worship rallies

37:43 - Trump’s racial topography

48:05 - Faithful Counseling

Dyck’s Picks with Drew Dyck:
49:16 - Interview intro
51:31 - Pick 1: “Fractured Faith” by Lina AbuJamra

1:1:15 - Pick 2: Yellowstone (TV series)
1:13:20 - Pick 3: “Bower Lodge” by Paul J. Pastor

1:19:23 - Final story: “With” by Skye Jethani

1:24:14 - Credits

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Apr 13, 2022
Episode 503: Woke Disney, Teens in Crisis, & Racial Reconciliation with Derwin Gray

The feud between Florida’s governor and Disney is getting hotter with new leaked footage of a Disney executive speaking about the company’s goals for LGBTQ representation. What are both the Right and Left getting wrong in the debate, and why should we see sexual orientation and gender identity as different from race? Also, new studies show an alarming rise in mental health disorders among teens, but there’s some good news for those involved in religious communities. Plus, Derwin Gray is back to talk about his new book, “How to Heal our Racial Divide.” He shares how his church is taking the call for racial reconciliation “from the seats to the streets,” and why so many church leaders remain afraid to talk about race.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro and updates

3:30 - Disney controversy update

26:43 - Teen mental health

31:34 - Religion, college, and mental health

Interview with Derwin Gray “How to Heal Our Racial Divide” -

Derwin Gray -

45:44 - Intro

47:18 - Book overview

49:01 - Multiethnic churches and resistance from leaders

1:01:13 - Christian responsibility in fixing unjust systems

1:09:09 - Police

1:17:11 - Importance of mourning

1:26:24 - Credits

Other resources mentioned: Holy Post episode 458: “The Gospel Demands Multiethnic Churches” -

Derwin Gray’s IG live with former CMPD Chief, Kerr Putney:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases

Apr 06, 2022
Episode 502: Secular Sexual Ethics, Faith, & Autism with Daniel Bowman Jr.
The conservative (and maybe Christian?) satire site Babylon Bee has had their Twitter account suspended for giving a trans woman their “Man of the Year” award. Babylon Bee says they’re being punished for speaking the truth, but are they just being mean? And an essay in the Washington Post by Christine Emba says our sexual ethic of consent alone isn’t working. Has she uncovered evidence that our secular culture is more receptive to Christian sexual ethics than we thought? Then Kaitlyn Schiess talks with author, poet, and English profess Daniel Bowman Jr. about his book, “On the Spectrum: Autism, Faith, & the Gifts of Neurodiversity.” Bowman, who is on the spectrum himself, dispels myths about autism and offers helpful ideas about how we can love those in our families and communities who are neurodiverse. Plus, an update from the Animal News desk.

Holy Post Patreon (now with book club!) -

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
2:54 - Animal News

10:41 - Babylon Bee
19:39 - Sexual ethics

49:24 - Faithful Counseling

Interview with Daniel Bowman Jr.

“On the Spectrum: Autism, Faith, & the Gifts of Neurodiversity” -

50:33 - Interview intro and book overview
54:38 - Loving neighbor
58:32 - Neurodiversity and Own Voices
1:02:56 - Culture making
“Culture Making” by Andy Crouch -

1:07:33 - Autism and the church
1:14:55 - Bad Christian stories
1:19:10 - Loving people across space
1:22:29 - End

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Mar 30, 2022
French Friday: Trans Athletes & Good Liberalism

Before recently winning the NCAA women’s 500-yard freestyle swimming championship, Lia Thomas competed in the sport as a man. Should that matter? David French talks with Skye Jethani about the complexities of transgender rights, and why we need a more nuanced understanding of what “equal protection” means in the law. Then, French says the real divisions in our culture and politics aren’t primarily between Republicans and Democrats, or between conservatives and progressives, but between a traditional understanding of liberalism and the dangers of illiberalism.

0:00 - Intro
0:48 - Trans athletes
“What Do We Do When People Are Equal, But Not Alike?” (David French article) -

34:28 - Liberalism and illiberalism
1:02:45 - EndHoly Post Patreon (now with book club!) -

Mar 25, 2022
Episode 501: “Don’t Say Gay” & Latino Evangelicals with Gabriel Salguero

Florida is the latest front in the culture war with a controversial bill to prevent teachers from speaking to children about the existence of same-sex couples or transgender people. But is the bill so vague that it could also prevent schools from acknowledging opposite-sex married couples too? The crew breaks down the intent, and the possible side effects, of Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” law. And, what does Disney’s response to the controversy tell us about where the wider culture is heading?

Then, pastor and president of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition (NALEC), Rev. Dr. Gabriel Salguero, joins Skye for a conversation about the growing influence of Latinos within evangelicalism. He says the diverse perspectives of Latino Christians offers the white church a “view from below,” and promises to bring renewal to the American church, but we shouldn’t romanticize the movement either. Plus, an example of Christian Nationalism in the wild, and goats go to church.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
5:21 - Animal News

7:52 - An example of Christian nationalism

19:49 - Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” bill
30:13 - Disney’s response

41:03 - Abide

Interview with Gabriel Salguero

National Latino Evangelical Coalition:
Gabriel Salguero:

42:14 - Interview start
45:36 - Latino evangelical experience in America
50:32 - Shared challenges
53:47 - Future of the church and evangelicalism
1:03:51 - Navigating recent tumultuous times
1:17:27 - Hope for the future

Other resources mentioned:
“The Dissenters Trying to Save Evangelicalism From Itself” (David Brooks article) -

Mar 23, 2022
500th Episode Extravaganza!

The gang’s all here! Phil, Skye, Christian, & Kaitlyn are all in the studio for the first time ever to record this very special episode of the Holy Post. They retell the show’s origin story dating all the way to Phil’s talkshow dreams in the 1980s, how that accidentally gave rise to VeggieTales, why Skye got roped into the scheme, how Christian went from TV producer to podcast co-host, and how Kaitlyn is leveraging her new Holy Post notoriety. The crew then countdown the Top 10 stories of the last 10 years, and speculate about what the future holds for faith in America. Featuring original songs by Phil, voice messages from the audience, and a mythological Inuit knife, this is an episode for the ages!

Holy Post Quiz Show:

Holy Post Patreon (now with book club!):

Episode 500 merch:

Special thanks to: Waylon Klix, creator of brick characters included on episode 500 art card and in the video; Ellie Kleinsasser, creator of episode 500 merch design; and all our Patreon supporters who submitted voice messages! (For time’s sake, we couldn’t include all the voice messages we received, but we loved listening to every one that came in.)

0:00 - Intro song
00:42 - Voice messages: Shelby, Jared, Edgar
02:31 - Holy Post origin story
23:33 - News of the Butt

28:26 - Voice messages: JT, Jere
29:50 - Sponsor - Abide
31:01 - Announcements
32:47 - Voice messages: Quinn, David
34:23 - 10 stories from 10 years, part 1
“Facts Are Our Friends: Why Sharing Fake News Makes Us Look Stupid and Harms Our Witness” (Ed Stetzer) -

52:20 - Voice messages: Michael, Catherine, Sarah, Ethan
55:21 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling
56:31 - 10 stories from 10 years, part 2
“Justice” video (Bible Project) -

“Struggling with Evangelicalism” book (Dan Stringer) -

1:15:20 - “Crazy” song
1:17:20 - Looking ahead
1:27:59 - Voice messages: Raphael, Rick, Laura, Denise
1:31:01 - End

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Mar 16, 2022
Episode 499: The End of Racial Reconciliation & Rescuing Evangelicalism with David Brooks

Some Southern Baptists say if Voddie Baucham becomes the next president of the SBC it will be a step toward racial reconciliation. When Phil disagreed in a tweet last weekend, it triggered a social media tsunami. He responds to the controversy. Then, the Holy Post crew discusses Jemar Tisby’s recent article about how the murder of Trayvon Martin ten years ago ended white evangelicalism’s efforts at racial reconciliation. But was the movement flawed from its beginning in the 1990s? Then, Skye has a wide-ranging conversation with author and conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks. They cover recent efforts to rescue evangelicalism from politics, the loss of optimism in the 21st century, our naïveté about democracy, how the world is reacting to the war in Ukraine, and why the church needs to make spiritual formation more challenging not less.


News Segment
0:00 - Intro
01:59 - Pat Robertson
4:48 - Phil’s Twitter tsunami
11:21 - The end of racial reconciliation?
“Trayvon Martin’s Murder and the Death of the Evangelical Racial Reconciliation Movement” -
51:10 - Abide
Interview with David Brooks
52:22 - Interview intro
54:06 - “Dissenters” article
58:39 - Social trust and technology
1:03:16 - “The Dark Century” article
1:05:22 - Lost view of humanity
1:13:09 - Reactions to the war in Ukraine
1:18:43 - Institutions and spiritual formation
1:26:02 - End
“The Dissenters Trying to Save Evangelicalism From Itself” -
David Brooks books mentioned:
“The Social Animal” -
“Bobos in Paradise” -
“The Road to Character” -
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Mar 09, 2022
Episode 498: Making Christian Disciples or Christian Nationalists? with David Kinnaman

Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and the heroic resistance the Russian troops have encountered raises new questions about patriotism. When is love for our country godly, and when does it unknowingly lead to evil? Plus, a new study tries to define Christian nationalism, explain why Black and White Christian nationalists are so different, and advise how to prevent the heresy from spreading in churches. Then, David Kinnaman, President of the Barna Group, is back for another “Barna Brief.” His latest research finds over 70 percent of pastors are very concerned about the spread of Christian nationalism, but most aren’t sure what to do about it. And - why measuring church attendance says almost nothing about a church’s spiritual health or effectiveness at making disciples.

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro
4:20 - Ukraine and patriotism
February French Friday episode -

Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie-

23:50 - Christian nationalism and race
“Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021 Insurrection” report -

“Theology Cannot Save Us” article -

“Trayvon Martin’s Murder and the Death of the Evangelical Racial Reconciliation Movement” article -

47:51 - Faithful Counseling

Barna Brief with David Kinnaman:
49:44 - Interview start
51:40 - Reception to data on pastors
53:59 - Measuring effectiveness of discipleship
1:14:03 - Pastors’ concerns about Christian nationalism
1:23:40 - End

To learn more about Barna’s initiatives for supporting pastors, go to

Mar 02, 2022
French Friday: Putin, Pentecostals, & Christian Nationalism

During the Cold War, conservatives prided themselves for their opposition to the Soviet Union and totalitarianism and blasted those who wavered as “un-American.” In the current crisis in Ukraine, however, we have seen some conservatives defending Putin and Russia. What happened? David French tries to explain why some Republicans and evangelicals foolishly see Putin as a hero and defender of Christendom. Then he discusses his recent article about the rise of Christian Nationalism. Why is it so appealing among independent, Pentecostal churches, how is it spreading beyond those circles, and why are educated, elite Christian leaders reluctant to speak up about it?

0:00 - Intro 
3:01 - Crisis in Ukraine“Burning Straw Men by the Bushel”-

Putin’s February 21 address -

We’re All Ukrainians Now” -

31:13 - Rise of Christian nationalism“The Seeds of Political Violence Are Being Sown in Church” -

Feb 25, 2022
Episode 497: The Progressive Christian Checklist & Ending Online Worship with Tish Harrison Warren

Why do black seminarians graduate with a lot more student debt than whites, and what does it mean for churches? A recent Gospel Coalition article by Alisa Childers argues that the word “deconstruction” is universally bad and should not be redeemed. Is she right or is it another example of Christians overreacting to a complicated issue?

Then Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn take Childers’ online quiz to determine whether they are progressive Christians. Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren talks to Skye about her controversial New York Times column saying it’s time to end online streaming worship services, and she argues that the pro-choice movement is hypocritical for not making the choice to keep a child easier. Plus, Phil shares his hard won wisdom about what not to post on Twitter.

News Segment

0:00 Intro
3:56 - Trucker protests in Canada
6:55 - COVID death rate graph

14:42 - Black seminarians graduating with more debt

Glenn Packiam interview:

26:43 - Deconstruction

Interview with Tish Harrison Warren

“The Systemic Realities Created by Legal Abortion” article -

“Why Churches Should Drop Their Online Services” article -

49:41 - Guest intro
51:40 - Abortion and a broken system
55:50 - Feminism and abortion
1:00:23 - Online worship services
1:01:42 - Importance of embodied worship
1:06:04 - Technology in community
1:18:25 - Pushback from people unable to attend services
1:29:37 - End

Other Links/Resources:
“Liturgy of the Ordinary: Sacred Practices in Everyday Life” book -

Patreon Bonus Segments:
Full abortion conversation with Tish Harrison Warren -
Bonus news story -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Feb 23, 2022
Episode 496: The Embrace of Tyrants & the Despair of Pastors
A scary number of Americans now say violence may be necessary to fix the country. A new report looks at what combination of beliefs cause a person to endorse political violence, and why it’s more common on the right. Then, in response to last week’s interview, Phil unpacks how our modern belief in human goodness explains the rise in authoritarianism and populism. And, why are U.S. Christians supporting the “Freedom Convoy” in Canada? A recent study from Barna found more than one-third of pastors have seriously considered leaving ministry in the last year. What’s behind this crisis? Is the problem our culture, church members, how we’ve structured ministry, or is it pastors themselves? Skye talks to Glenn Packiam about his new book, “The Resilient Pastor,” and why it’s time to reexamine our assumptions about the church and its leadership. Plus, scientists create an artificial fish powered by love.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro/updates from the crew
4:44 - Valentine’s Day
6:39 - Animal News

13:08 - Recap: Last week’s interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie

18:08 - Study: Moral divisions and authoritarian leaders

36:36 - Beliefs leading to endorsement of political violence
David French piece:

50:53 - News segment wrap-up

53:04 - Faithful Counseling

Interview with Glenn Packiam“The Resilient Pastor” -

54:17 - Interview intro
56:19 - “Pastor” definition and recent Barna stats
1:00:07 - Glenn Packiam’s story/pilgrimage
1:04:02 - Tension in how pastors spend their time
1:13:44 - Authority
1:21:10 - Slowing down
1:28:10 - What’s next?

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Feb 16, 2022
Episode 495: The False Gospel of Democracy with Robert Tracy McKenzie

Should churches stop live-streaming their services and return to in-person worship? A recent editorial by Tish Harrison Warren has gotten a lot of negative reactions from chronically ill and disabled people who value online worship. What does the debate say about our theology of the church? ABC has suspended Whoopi Goldberg for her comments about race and the Holocaust. Is Judaism a race, a religion, an ethnicity, or something else?


Some Christians are praising Stephen Colbert for talking about how his faith informs his comedy on his talk show, while others are criticizing him for not explicitly sharing the gospel. Who’s right? And David Brooks’ recent NY Times article about the evangelical leaders trying to save their movement makes the Holy Post crew ask—When do we try to fix a ministry and when do we leave it? Then, Skye talks to history professor Robert Tracy McKenzie about his new book “We the Fallen People” about what the Founders really believed about democracy and the virtue of the American people. He explains how Americans lost the Founders’ belief in human depravity and exchanged it for a false gospel that affirms the inherent goodness of people and democracy, and how that explains the challenges we are now experiencing in our politics.

News Segment:
0:00 - Intro
4:29 - Should churches stop live-streaming services?
Skye’s video, “Why You’re Sick of Church” -
16:52 - Whoopi Goldberg’s comments on race and the Holocaust
26:01 - Stephen Colbert on faith and comedy
36:47 - Institutions - when to fix and when to leave
Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie:
“We the Fallen People: The Founders and the Future of American Democracy” -
Patreon Bonus Interview -
56:04 - Interview Start
57:57 - “Democratic gospel” definition
1:02:02 - Founders’ beliefs about democracy and human nature
1:12:46 - “The Great Reversal”
1:20:21 - Jackson and unchecked democracy
1:23:22 - Christianity and partisanship
1:26:03 - Imperial presidency concerns
1:30:08 - End
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Feb 09, 2022
Episode 494: Falwell Fallout & How Not to Read the Bible with Dan Kimball

Jerry Falwell Jr. is doing damage control following his profile in Vanity Fair (discussed at length in last month’s French Friday episode). He’s even posted a statement of faith affirming his Christian beliefs. But does that make his behavior better or worse? And how does populism explain his criticism of “religious elites” while enjoying all the benefits of being a religious elite? Is Falwell the victim of nepotism, and should ministry be a family business? Then, a researcher argues that a toxic reaction to the Religious Right can explain a bunch of cultural, political, and religious trends—including the rise of the “nones” and unchecked conspiracy theories. And data suggests Democrats project their moral belief onto their candidates, while Republicans adopt the moral beliefs of their candidates. Then, Skye talks to Dan Kimball about his book and video series, How Not to Read the Bible, about why it’s critical for churches to welcome questions and doubts, and how the biblical ignorance of leaders is driving young people to find answers outside the church.

News Segment
0:00 - Intro and updates from the crew
8:22 - Falwell fallout

January French Friday episode:

25:39 - Article: “The backlash against rightwing evangelicals is reshaping American politics and faith”

44:10 - Study on political candidates and moral beliefs

51:40 - Faithful Counseling:

Interview with Dan Kimball
52:53 - Interview start and intro
55:41 - Personal stories that led to the book/series
1:02:04 - Church as a factor
1:05:02 - Broader culture as a factor
1:15:24 - Personal conversion story
1:21:16 - Exclusivity issue
1:31:19 - End

Resources mentioned:

“How (Not) to Read the Bible: Making Sense of the Anti-women, Anti-science, Pro-violence, Pro-slavery and Other Crazy-Sounding Parts of Scripture” -

“How (Not) to Read the Bible” Study Guide plus Streaming Video -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Feb 02, 2022
French Friday: Falwell & the Fruit of Evangelical Leadership
He was the president of the largest Christian university and an influential political voice for millions of evangelicals. In a lengthy new Vanity Fair profile, however, Jerry Falwell Jr. now says he has contempt for “organized religion” and “religious elites.” David French and Skye Jethani discuss the shocking claims Falwell makes about Liberty University, how he lived a double life, and what his downfall says about American evangelicalism. Do Falwell and other disgraced leaders represent a bug or a feature of evangelicalism, and are ministries protecting bad or abusive leaders because they’re focused on the wrong fruit? Then, what’s the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and why is reforming it essential to protect American democracy?


0:00 - Start
0:21 - STORY 1: Vanity Fair profile of Jerry Falwell Jr.

4:17 - Falwell in context
8:16 - Victim or villain?
13:16 - Broader institutional implications
21:05 - Bug or feature?
27:14 - Measuring the wrong fruit
47:19 - An antidote: Being known
53:22 - STORY 2: Electoral Count Act reform
1:06:33 - End

Jan 28, 2022
Episode 493: Fundy Fashion & Native American Christianity with Matthew Milliner

A new study finds evangelicals see most thing in society in categories of good and evil while nonbelievers see more nuance. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the implications. Bob Jones University has a fashion design department. What could possibly go wrong? Pretty much everything when a student discovered his androgynous Jesus coat was a fundamentalist fashion faux pas. Then, art historian Matthew Milliner talks about his new book “The Everlasting People: G.K. Chesterton and the First Nations.” Milliner explains the arrogance and injustice of progressivism, and the surprising story of Christianity among indigenous North Americans that rarely gets told. Plus, 100 monkeys on a truck and drunks on a plane.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
3:29 - Animal News

8:16 - News of the Butt

16:34 - Fundamentalist fashion faux pas

39:50 - Can society be split into good and evil?

51:40 - This episode is sponsored by Abide:

Interview with Matthew Milliner
“The Everlasting People: G.K. Chesterton and the First Nations” -

52:44 - Interview Start/Intro
54:45 - Why this book?
1:01:27 - Chesterton’s worldview
1:08:00 - Progressivism then and now
1:15:08 - Christianity in native cultures
1:22:18 - Indigenous symbols
1:30:29 - EndOther resources mentioned:
“Orthodoxy” by G.K. Chesterton -“Dream Catchers” by Philip Jenkins -

“One Church, Many Tribes” by Richard Twiss -

“Mixed Blessings” edited by Tolly Bradford & Chelsea Horton -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 26, 2022
Episode 492: After School Satan Clubs, MLK Day, & Disturbing Bible Stories with Esau McCaulley & David T. Lamb

To commemorate MLK Day, Phil asks Esau McCaulley if we’re making progress on race or if we’ve gone backwards in the last few years. His answer might surprise you. Skye then interviews Old Testament professor, David T. Lamb, about the updated version of his book, “God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?” Lamb argues that if read correctly, we’d discover the Old Testament is surprisingly progressive rather than barbaric. Also this week, controversy erupts as after school Satan clubs sponsored by The Satanic Temple pop up in elementary schools with Good News clubs. And, a country music star withdraws his support from a Christian school that teaches racism is a reality. Plus, scientists discover sea slugs have an interesting party trick.


News Segment
0:00 - Start
2:41 - News of the Butt

14:25 - After School Satan Club

22:19 - John Rich angry about school materials discussing racism

Interview with Esau McCaulley
“Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope” -

35:05 - Interview Start
36:14 - Reflecting on the last 18 months
41:51 - Where the white evangelical church is now
51:04 - Being part of the solution

1:00:16 - Faithful Counseling
Thanks to Faithful Counseling for sponsoring this episode:

1:01:29 - Livestream with Josh Packard:

Interview with David T. Lamb
“God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?” (Expanded Edition) -

1:02:52 - Intro/Interview start
1:04:37 - Understanding the Old Testament as progressive
1:15:49 - The issue of collective justice
BONUS INTERVIEW (Polygamy in the Old Testament):

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 19, 2022
Episode 491: American Democracy & American Inerrancy with Michael F. Bird

Last week, the country commemorated the one-year anniversary of the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn examine what’s changed, and what hasn’t, since the attack and what impact it’s had on both Christians and our culture. They also respond to Samuel Perry’s article about the way Christian Nationalism threatens democracy. Then, Skye talks to Australian theologian Michael Bird about the doctrine of biblical inerrancy. While Christians throughout the world affirm the Bible’s inerrancy, Bird says American Evangelicals uniquely see the doctrine as “the one ring to rule them all.” He documents many cases where inerrancy isn’t used to defend the Bible, but a particular interpretation of the Bible. Also this week—goldfish chauffeurs and the Japanese invent a finger-nibbling robot to “free all humanity.”

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
3:05 - Scientists teach goldfish how to drive

9:13 - Finger-nibbling robots

12:48 - Anniversary of January 6th Capitol attacks

Interview with Michael F. Bird

“Saving Inerrancy from the Americans?” article -

“Seven Things I Wish People Knew About the Bible” book -

47:40 - Intro/Interview Start
50:44 - Inerrancy vs. infallibility
57:21 - American evangelicalism and inerrancy
1:07:46 - Global church and inerrancy
1:11:26 - Authorities of scripture, interpretation, and historic church doctrine
1:20:42 - Perspectives from the global church on other issues
1:27:21 - Interview End

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jan 12, 2022
Episode 490: Lessons from the Global Church with Christine Caine

Phil experienced a Twitter typhoon last week when he suggested “love your country” is not a Biblical command. The Holy Post crew unpacks the reactions and asks what separates godly and ungodly patriotism. Then, Skye talks to Christine Caine, founder of The A21 Campaign, about her experience of American evangelicalism as an Australian Pentecostal. With decades of experience in ministry around the world, and working against human trafficking in 14 countries, Caine says she was shocked by what she found in the American church, and advocates for more listening and cooperation with Christians in other traditions and cultures. Also this week, a Japanese professor invents a TV you can taste, and a town in the UK is terrorized by a bloodthirsty squirrel.

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro and updates
4:29 - Squirrel rampage

8:36 - Lickable TV

15:16 - ERLC clarification
17:38 - Critiquing our own team and purpose of the Holy Post
27:59 - Phil’s Twitter discussions on love of country
46:10 Sponsors

Thanks to the sponsors of this week’s episode:

Faithful Counseling:


Interview with Christine Caine:
A21 organization: https://www.a21.org48:36 - Interview Start
49:49 - Experience in Pentecostal church
55:28 - Church celebrity culture
1:05:02 - Healthy skepticism
1:09:12 - Cross-tradition interaction & the global church
1:25:17 - Ending

Jan 05, 2022
French Friday: Jeremiads & Drones

In a recent editorial, Kevin DeYoung took aim at Christian commentators, including David French, for criticizing the social and political hypocrisies within white evangelicalism. DeYoung says these necessary corrections are better left to pastors rather than “professional writers, academics, and full-time commentators.” David and Skye respond to DeYoung’s editorial by explaining the good, and bad, reasons so few pastors are speaking prophetically in America today. Then, they turn their attention to the remarkable NY Times report about the U.S. military underreporting civilian casualties from drone attacks in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. French explains why legally the terrorists, not the U.S. military, carry responsibility for these deaths, which leads to a wider discussion about the ethics of war in general, the way drones may change Americans’ view of war in the future, and whether the invasion of Iraq was justifiable to begin with.

0:00 - Intro

2:40 - Kevin DeYoung editorial on Christian commentators

29:54 - Drone attacks, civilian casualties, and ethics of war

Dec 31, 2021
Episode 489: The Evangelical Empire Strikes Back & Barna Briefs with David Kinnaman

After the mess that was 2020, we had such high hopes for 2021. Were our expectations met? Phil and Skye look back on the year when the evangelical empire dug in its heels. Those opposed to #MeToo and Black Lives Matter responded by labeling empathy a sin. Voices advocating for women and people of color within the SBC left the denomination. The Salvation Army reversed course on racial sensitivity, and female scholars faced a backlash for exposing Christian nationalism and patriarchy. Will 2022 be any different, or will the sorting of the entire culture into Red and Blue tribes continue? And how wide will the rift between classical and cultural evangelicals get?

Then, the president of Barna Group, David Kinnaman, joins Skye to launch a new reoccurring segment—Barna Briefs. Kinnaman reveals brand new data about the state of the church and how the pandemic has revealed wide discontent among churchgoers with their congregations. He also says popular church structures are clearly insufficient for forming mature disciples and new church models are desperately needed. Kinnaman also reveals an alarming number of pastors are ready to leave ministry. Is there a silver lining to all of the troubling data?

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro

4:34 - Looking back and looking ahead

9:10 - Stories from 2021: The “sin of empathy” conversation
Holy Post episode 472 -

12:28 - Was 2021 “The Empire Strikes Back”?

15:47 - Russell Moore and the ERLC
Painting Phil references - - Salvation Army and “wokeness”

32:18 - Books from this year
“Jesus and John Wayne” by Kristin Kobes Du Mez -
“The Making of Biblical Womanhood” by Beth Allison Barr -

42:01 - The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast
“Church Refugees” by Josh Packard -
“A Church Called Tov ” by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer -

53:06 - Looking toward 2022

Movie Phil references - “Don’t Look Up” (2021)

Barna Brief with David Kinnaman:

Free download for Holy Post listeners:

1:02:37 - Interview Start
1:04:12 - Project intro: State of the Church

1:05:31 - Digital church and effects of the pandemic
1:17:06 - Growing crisis among pastors
1:22:53 - Mental and emotional impact of pandemic

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 29, 2021
Episode 488: How Trump Stole Christmas & Paul and Gender with Cynthia Long Westfall

Last Sunday, the former president attended an advent service at First Baptist Church in Dallas. Some have called what unfolded an example of evangelicalism’s syncretism with conservative politics. Why aren’t more people bothered by it? Then, Don Jr. said if Christians want to take back America they need to ignore Jesus’ commands like “Turn the other cheek.” Kaitlyn says he’s right. Skye responds to listener feedback to his interview about Gen Z, and Phil reads listener comments about abortion.
Then, Kaitlyn speaks with New Testament professor Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall about Paul and gender. Dr. Westfall says we need to apply the same interpretive framework to what the Bible says about men as we do for women. Based on the weight of biblical evidence, she argues that the burden of proof isn’t on those who say women should lead and teach, but on those who say they shouldn’t. Plus, why are do so many Christmas cards this year fear assault weapons? One historian says you can blame the YMCA.

PATREON BONUS: bonus segment is available to the public - no Patreon membership required. Click through to listen or watch!)
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:43 - Mailbag: Gen Z
14:18 - Mailbag: Abortion
23:55 “How Trump Stole Christmas” - Donald Trump Jr. on turning the other cheek - Guns on Christmas cards -Sponsor
This episode is sponsored by FaithfulCounseling:

Interview with Cynthia Long Westfall
“Discovering Biblical Equality: Biblical, Theological, Cultural, and Practical Perspectives” -
54:41 - Interview Start
56:46 - About the book - purpose and new edition
56:07 - Cynthia Long Westfall background
1:07:05 - Galatians 3:28 and differences between genders
1:19:53 - Advice for women in ministry
Other resources mentioned:
“Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle’s Vision for Men and Women in Christ” -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 22, 2021
Episode 487: Why Gen Z is “Unbundling” Faith with Josh Packard

Everyone seems to be talking about “deconstructing” faith, but researcher Josh Packard says it’s better to describe young people as “unbundling” faith. He joins Skye for a conversation about Springtide Research Institute’s new report on the State of Religion and Young People, and why Gen Z has such a negative perception of the church and such an inflated view of themselves. Also this week, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in a case that could overturn Roe v. Wade. With some pro-life activists ecstatic, and pro-choice activists apoplectic, the Holy Post crew discusses what a post-Roe country could look like, how the pro-life movement could evolve, and what lessons we can learn from the era of Prohibition. Plus, the word “sorcery” was the fastest-growing search term on Bible Gateway in 2021. Should it have been “asininity”?

News Segment

0:00 - Intro

3:26 - Fastest-growing search term on Bible Gateway

14:23 - Supreme Court and Roe v. Wade

48:31 - Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Abide:

Interview with Josh Packard
Springtide Research Institute report:

49:36 - Intro
51:12 - Major findings from report
55:06 - Implications of unbundling
1:05:55 - Values gap
1:18:41 - Impact of religious communities on flourishing
Other resources:

Dec 15, 2021
Episode 486: The Gospel and Fake News with Love Thy Neighborhood

A recent survey found that 49 percent of pastors reported conspiracy theories were spreading within their congregations. This is especially prevalent within evangelical communities. Although evangelicals are supposed to be known as people of the “good news”—which is what the word “evangelical” literally means—in many places they’ve become the largest consumers and spreaders of “fake news.” In this special episode co-produced with the Love Thy Neighborhood podcast, Skye Jethani and Jesse Eubanks take a closer look at the origins and impact of fake news. How we should define what’s “fake”, why it’s become such a problem, and what can Christians do about it.

Love Thy Neighborhood podcast:
Holy Post website:
0:00 - Intro
2:04 - War of the Worlds
7:40 - What is fake news?
10:25 - Fake news in the church
12:01 - Follow the money
23:17 - Episode sponsors
With God Daily:
The Movie Proposal:
25:35 - Technology
Jason Thacker:
31:03 - Reclaiming truth

Dec 08, 2021
Episode 485: The Biblical Case for Redemptive Privilege with Dominique DuBois Gilliard

Today, privilege has become a dirty word that is automatically associated with sinfulness, but Dominique Gilliard, author of “Subversive Witness: Scripture’s Call to Leverage Privilege,” says it doesn’t have to be. He explores the many biblical characters who used their privilege redemptively rather than selfishly, and challenges us to rethink our assumptions about who is really privileged in our society. 

Also this week, a new study reveals how our preferred news source shapes our political and cultural beliefs—especially for those on the more conservative end of the spectrum. As the Supreme Court hears arguments about Mississippi’s new abortion law, Tish Harrison Warren says we need to rethink our definition of feminism to include women who are pro-life. Plus, Phil goes to an indoor waterpark, and the Japanese have an innovative new energy source.

News Segment:

0:00 - Intro/Thanksgiving highlights
12:41 - News of the Butt
20:50 - PRRI media study
36:29 - Feminism and pro-life
50:11 - MyPillow ads
52:17 - Holy Post merch

Interview with Dominique DuBois Gilliard:

“Subversive Witness: Scripture’s Call to Leverage Privilege” -

53:32 - Introduction
57:31 - Defining privilege
1:04:45 - How stories in Scripture help us
1:08:20 - Accountability in leveraging privilege
1:21:08 - Interpreting the rich young ruler
1:26:49 - Fruit in ongoing repentance

Other resources mentioned:
“Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice That Restores” -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Dec 01, 2021
French Friday - "Nerdfest 2021"

French Friday leaves the world of politics and theology behind to join David French and fellow nerd Skye Jethani for a journey through the pop-culture countryside of geekdom in a special episode. They begin with a breakdown of Dune, the film adaptation of Frank Herbert’s classic sci-fi novel. Was it too faithful to the book? The dorky duo then debate why the Disney-era Star Wars sequel trilogy was a failure, but The Mandalorian series works brilliantly. They discuss the best movies in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and whether the future of the MCU is doomed. Then things heat up when French and Jethani cross streams as French argues that DC’s recent movies—including Justice League—are masterpieces, and Jethani disagrees. Which nerd will triumph? Listen to find out.

0:00 Intro
1:21 Dune
12:54 Star Wars
28:32 Marvel
43:17 DC

Nov 26, 2021
Episode 484: Why to Leave Evangelicalism & How to Stay with Dan Stringer

In case you haven’t noticed, the evangelical movement in America is a mess. Some say we should let it all burn down. Others fiercely defend the historic and theological richness of the tradition. Dan Stringer says there’s a third option that is honest about evangelicalism’s failures, while also valuing its strengths. Kaitlyn interviews Stringer about his new book “Struggling with Evangelicalism: Why I Want to Leave and What It Takes to Stay.”

 Also this week, former Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn says the U.S. should only allow one religion. Skye explains why the Pilgrims did not come to America for religious freedom, and Christian explores healthy and toxic patriotism. Then, what should we conclude from the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict? Plus, orcas are attacking yachts and Phil celebrates World Toilet Day.

Thanks to the Grow Center for sponsoring this episode. More information about The Ray Bakke Certificate of Biblical and Entrepreneurial Thinking is available here:

News Segment

0:00 - Intro
04:07 - World Toilet Day12:28 Animal News: Orcas attacking yachts

18:43 - Michael Flynn says U.S. should mandate one religion

42:45 - Kyle Rittenhouse verdict

Interview w/ Dan Stringer “Struggling with Evangelicalism: Why I Want to Leave and What It Takes to Stay” -

54:43 - Interview Start & Guest Background
59:55 - Shifting perspective on evangelicalism
01:04:13 - Importance of remembering our history/tradition
01:12:46 - Communal repentance

01:16:46 - Learning from each other
01:22:37 - Is this the moment for renewal?
01:27:06 - What next? Responding after pain

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Nov 24, 2021
Holy Post Episode 483: Faith, Science, and the Covid Vaccines with Francis Collins

Are faith and science irreconcilable belief systems? Not according to Dr. Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health and founder of BioLogos. He talks with Phil about his journey from atheism to faith, his role in overseeing the country’s response to Covid-19, and why America’s culture war is literally killing people. Collins also explains why the Covid vaccines are safe and should be embraced by Christians as an answer to prayer.

Then, The Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood’s attack on a small Texas church backfires, leading to a conversation about God and gendered language. The editor of World Magazine leaves in protest as yet another evangelical institution takes a sharp turn to the right. Are we witnessing the final fury of a dying religious right? Plus, Phil was unknowingly on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. And, a meaningless archeological discovery in Michigan.

News Segment:

November livestream details [3:41]

Archaeological discovery in Michigan [5:21]

Phil on the Late Show [12:24]

Beth Allison Barr and our language for God [14:04]

“The Making of Biblical Womanhood” -

Marvin Olasky and the struggle between evangelicals and fundamentalists [28:52]

Interview with Francis Collins:

Interview Start [49:28]
“Language of God” book [52:20]

Response to objections after NIH nomination [55:19]

Science and faith conflicts [57:20]

COVID-19 responses and vaccines [1:00:05]

Legacy as a visible scientist of faith [1:07:23]

Culture wars and the pandemic [1:15:21]

Other resources mentioned:


The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Nov 17, 2021
Episode 482: Truth, Lies, and Spiritual Imagination with John Mark Comer

Why do we expect the Christian life to be easy when the Bible clearly says it will be a struggle? Starting with the wrong expectation, says John Mark Comer, makes us spiritually neurotic and causes more suffering than necessary. He talks with Skye about his new book, “Live No Lies,” why spiritual warfare isn’t what you’ve been taught, why information alone doesn’t change us, and what it means to really be people committed to the truth.

Also this week, artificial intelligence is now offering very questionable ethical advice. Phil wonders what it means for self-driving cars. Two seminaries are suing the government over the Covid vaccine mandate, but is it really a question of religious liberty? New data says white evangelicals are those most likely to use violence to defend America, and those most likely to reject America’s founding ideal of pluralism. Does anyone else see a contradiction? Plus, skull-crushing wombat bums.

News Segment:

Deadly wombat butts [5:14]

Ethical AI trained on Reddit [13:57]

“Drive Recklessly” short film -

Two evangelical seminaries sue to block vaccine mandates [27:32]

Study: Most white evangelicals don’t want to live in a religiously diverse country [38:06]

Holy Post Updates [48:40]

Interview with John Mark Comer:“Live No Lies: Recognize and Resist the Three Enemies That Sabotage Your Peace”-


Interview Start [51:05]

Spiritual warfare and the spirituality of struggle [53:14]

Truth and lies; desert fathers and mothers [1:00:09]

Information alone vs. embodied spiritual formation [1:05:41]

Mental maps and spiritual imagination [1:13:36]

Conservative and progressive fundamentalism [1:24:14]

Other books mentioned:

“Water from a Deep Well” by Gerald L. Sittser -
“The Road Less Traveled” by M. Scott Peck -
“Where the Light Fell” by Philip Yancey -

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Nov 10, 2021
Episode 481: Admitting the Skeletons in Christianity’s Closet with John Dickson

What is Christianity’s contribution to history and has it been positive or negative? John Dickson says Christians should obey Jesus’ command to remove the plank from our own eye and admit the many ugly truths about church history. Only then will we be able to see clearly the parts of church history that conform to the way of Jesus. Skye talks to Dickson about his new book, “Bullies & Saints: An Honest Look at the Good and Evil of Christian History.”

Also this week, a conspiracy filled speech by the actor who played Jesus in “The Passion of the Christ” has gone viral. Why are evangelicals more susceptible than others to such nonsense? And was Bonhoeffer right that stupidity is more dangerous than malice? Plus, why does the Bible forbid witchcraft? (Hint: it has nothing to do with patriarchy.) And, PETA is trying to change our language to protect the feelings of cows and chickens

News Segment:

Celebrating Halloween? [3:32]

PETA urges MLB to change ‘bullpen’ term [8:10


‘Jewitches’ embracing both Judaism and witchcraft [12:20]

Jim Caviezel quoting Bravehart at a QAnon conference [19:25]

Interview with John Dickson:

Bullies and Saints: An Honest Look at the Good and Evil of Christian History -

Centre for Public Christianity -

Interview Start [48:06]

Why church history? [49:31]

Tribalism and the plank in our own eye [53:05]

How do we explain Christians doing terrible things throughout history? [58:27]

How to talk with people about church history [1:13:00]

Is Christianity really still needed? [1:18:36]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Nov 03, 2021
FRENCH FRIDAY: The Great American Divorce

Recent polling has found that a majority of Trump voters (52%) and a significant number of Biden voters (41%) support breaking up the country. Has our animosity and disgust for each other made reconciliation impossible? Are we heading toward a national divorce? Skye Jethani and David French discuss his recent articles about the rise of malice in our political divisions and within the church. Why have so many evangelicals embraced anger as a virtue, and how has our pragmatic theology contributed to the problem? Then, they debate the role of social media in the breakdown of national unity and the recent leak of the “Facebook Papers.” French is reluctant to blame social media companies for what is ultimately a problem with human hearts, while Skye says the tech giants must take more responsibility for the damage their platforms are inflicting.

Malice and anger in political division [00:28]

Malice and anger in the church [20:34

]Social media and the “Facebook Papers” [38:11]

Oct 29, 2021
Episode 480: The Myth of the Religious Right with Randall Balmer

Conservative evangelicals organized into a political movement in the 1970s in response to the Supreme Court’s decision to legalize abortion. Or did they? Historian Randall Balmer argues this origin story for the Religious Right is a myth. He talks to Skye about the real origins of the movement and how it explains the current state of white evangelicalism.

Also this week, we unpack Peter Wehner’s article in The Atlantic about the breaking apart of evangelicalism. Is the church a victim of media manipulation, or is evangelicalism reaping its own rotten fruit? Plus, lawsuits between believers, training Christians for hand-to-hand combat in vehicles, and Phil’s massive magical mushroom.

News Segment:

Phil’s mushroom [2:47]

Christians training in hand-to-hand combat [8:39]

Mike Stone suing Russell Moore [13:14]

“The Evangelical Church is Breaking Apart” [28:01]

Interview with Randall Balmer:


“Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right” -

Interview Start [52:40]

Context for approaching this study [54:23]

What is the myth? [59:59]

Effects of dispensational premillennialism on social engagement [1:11:37]

Emergence of Religious Right in the North/Midwest [1:19:35]

Why do these origins matter? [1:25:22]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 27, 2021
Episode 479: Everything Doesn’t Happen For a Reason with Kate Bowler

The prosperity gospel isn’t just about health and wealth. Historian Kate Bowler says pragmatic values, simple solutions, and the endless quest for self-improvement, have infected most of the church in subtle ways. Kaitlyn Schiess talks to Dr. Bowler about her own battle with cancer, and how it’s helped her move beyond cliches like “Everything happens for a reason,” to embrace the larger mystery of faith.

Also this week, have elite evangelicals sold out to the mainstream media, or have populist evangelicals sold out to Trump voters? Everyone seems to be talking about the divide within evangelicalism, but is it really something new? The Holy Post crew looks at the arguments and how we could be seeing the latest version of a very old divide. Plus, Phil is fascinated by left-handed ghost squirrels.

News Segment:

Traveling with moss [1:38]

Animal Facts [5:34]

The divide within evangelicalism [14:40]

Interview with Kate Bowler:

Interview Start [52:19]
“Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lies I’ve Loved” -

“No Cure for Being Human: (And Other Truths I Need to Hear)” -

Kate’s Story [55:57]

“Blessed - A History of the American Prosperity Gospel” -

No Cure for Being Human” Title [1:00:14]

Certainty vs. faith[1:05:31]

American pragmatism and “useful pain” [1:07:32]

Understanding fear and living after crisis [1:11:24]

Response and engagement with these books [1:18:57]

The miracle of moments [1:23:35]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 20, 2021
Episode 478: Foreign Policy, Adoption, & Race with Esau McCaulley & Jamie Ivey

This week is a special a double feature! First, Phil talks to Esau McCaulley about his recent NY Times editorial about President Biden’s vengeance against terrorists in Afghanistan. McCaulley asks why so few Christian politicians seem to have Christian instincts, and what role should forgiveness have in American foreign policy. Then, Skye interviews author and podcaster Jamie Ivey about her experience as a white mom raising black kids, how it’s changed her understanding of race, and why she no longer believes love can solve every problem. Also this week—new polling indicates a frightening number of people on both the right and left want to disunite the country. Are we on a path toward civil war, and is social media to blame? News Segment Trump voters are worried about anti-white discrimination and think

Christianity is under attack [4:00]

People on the right and left wanting to disunite the country [15:10]

Interview w/ Esau McCaulley Interview Start: [25:41]

“The Dangerous Politics of ‘We Will Not Forgive’”

“Reading While Black”

Interview with Jamie Ivey: The Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey:

“God Made You to Be You”

Ivey Family Interview with Emmanuel Acho:

Interview Start: [54:14]

The decision to adopt [58:48]

Jamie’s background [1:00:54]

Parenting differently and the church’s response [1:08:54]

Connecting kids with black heritage [1:19:50]

Frustration and hope with the church [1:28:12]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 13, 2021
Episode 477: Rethinking the Lord's Prayer with Derwin Gray

Friend of the show Derwin Gray has a new book! When did he have time to write it? We don’t know! But he also found time to sit down with Skye and talk about it. Derwin says the Lord’s Prayer isn’t just a prayer, but an entire catechism of faith, a lesson in communing with God, and a call for the people of God to engage in issues of justice. He unpacks it all with Skye.

And did scientists find the biblical city of Sodom? Have psychologists found the number one predictor of atheism? And a new study finds that young Brits are twice as likely to pray regularly than their elders! What’s up with that?? Mike Erre joins Kaitlyn and Phil to parse the news of the day on this week’s Holy Post!

Did scientists find the biblical city of Sodom? [6:47]

Predicting atheism in adulthood [20:50]

Young people in the UK are twice as likely as older people to pray regularly [35:27]

Other links:
Mike Erre’s podcast -

Interview with Derwin Gray

“God, Do You Hear Me?”


Interview Start [50:12]
Pastoral vision for prayer [54:54]
The Lord’s Prayer as a mini catechism [1:00:28]
The kingdom & loving our neighbor [1:09:21]
Christ as the treasure [1:16:42]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Oct 06, 2021
Episode 476: Suffering & Grace with Philip Yancey

Philip Yancey is one of the best-selling contemporary Christian authors, and his books helped millions find a more authentic faith long before “deconstruction” was a hashtag. His new memoir, “Where the Light Fell,” tells how he escaped the racist, fundamentalist Christianity of his youth, and his lifelong quest to find God’s grace in a world of suffering. Yancey also sympathizes with the ex-vangelical movement, and shares his concerns for the direction of the faith in America. Also this week, reactions to Josh McDowell’s decision to step back from ministry for a season of listening. Could llama spit end the pandemic? Everyone is spinning the new Pew research about evangelicals to fit their own agenda. Phil doubles down in his footwear battle with the Dutch. And, your butt is a snowflake.

News Segment:
Where in the world is Christian? [3:06]
News of the Butt [9:03]
Llama antibodies treat hamsters’ COVID-19 [14:21]
Josh McDowell update [20:47]
Pew research: “Evangelical” label [30:19][…]al-label-during-trump-presidency-especially-his-supporters/
Interview with Philip Yancey:
Pre-order “Where the Light Fell” (releasing 10/5/21) -
“Soul Survivor” -
Interview start [49:25]
A memoir 40 years in the making [51:18]
Impact of family and church on faith formation [55:36]
The gift of pain [1:13:16]
The state of the American church [1:17:08]
Encouragement for ex-vangelicals [1:23:05]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Sep 29, 2021
French Friday - “Buckets of Evangelicals”

Senior editor of The Dispatch and constitutional attorney, David French, and Holy Post co-host, Skye Jethani, discuss why the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention should waive their attorney-client privilege in the ongoing abuse investigation. Then, French explains why the increase in self-identified evangelicals between 2016 and 2020 isn’t good news, and why he now puts “evangelicals” in three different buckets. Finally, they examine claims from some neo-fundamentalists that empathy is a sin. French says the problem in America isn’t too much empathy, but selective empathy.

SBC Executive Committee review [1:17]

Defining “evangelical” [15:28]

“The American Crisis of Selective Empathy” [33:26]

Sep 24, 2021
Episode 475: Mammoths, McDowell, & Making Sense of White Supremacy with Robert P. Jones

Data from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) has found that white Christians—including mainline Protestants, Catholics, and evangelicals—are the most racist religious group in America, Robert P. Jones, the CEO of PRRI, says this isn’t a bug within white American Christianity, but a feature. He discusses his new book “White Too Long” about the lingering legacy of white supremacy in the church. Also this week, apologist Josh McDowell joins those saying CRT is the greatest threat facing the church, but does his argument contradict itself? Why is belief in miracles going up if overall belief in religion is going down? Phil says we shouldn’t worry about scientists trying to resurrect woolly mammoths. Christian explains why she’s in the Netherlands. And police in the UK issue a warning about kids buying beans.

News Segment

Where in the world is Christian? [00:47]

Christian’s research and wooden shoes [4:51]Police issue warning over children ‘buying large quantities of cans of beans’ [9:31]

Firm raises $15m to bring back woolly mammoth from extinction [16:44]

Josh McDowell’s speech and apology [22:45]

New stat: Do you believe in religious miracles? [35:41]

Interview with Robert P. Jones

PRRI -“The End of White Christian America” -“White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in America Christianity” -

PATREON BONUS: Start [44:18]

The white Christian shuffle [48:26]Al Mohler and the SBC’s racist history [51:35]

Theology of white Christianity [55:31]

Data from “Deep Roots: How Slavery Still Shapes Southern Politics” [1:07:59]

More data: Thermometer vs. race index [1:11:10]

United Daughters of the Confederacy - catechisms [1:15:24]

Does church attendance affect racist attitudes? [1:20:22]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Sep 22, 2021
Episode 474: You Are Not Your Own with Alan Noble

Why are people inside the church often no healthier or happier than those outside? Author Alan Noble says we are suffering from a kind of mass psychosis and going to church won’t solve it. His new book, “You Are Not Your Own” challenges our understanding of identity and purpose, and calls us to a less modern, more Christian, vision of life. Also this week, progressive philosopher and political activist, Cornel West, says liberals need Jesus. What can we learn from him about critiquing our own tribe rather than judging others’. Plus, are white evangelicals keeping the guitar industry alive? And Phil brings us a new batch of animal news. Has the shark messiah been born in Italy?

News Segment:

Australian ducks learn how to swear [2:47]

Rare shark “virgin birth” [5:20]

Fender: 1 in 3 guitars are bought by people who play in worship bands [8:52]

“Cornel West on Why the Left Needs Jesus” and critiquing our own tribe [10:58]

“The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” podcast [22:25]


Interview with Alan Noble:

“You Are Not Your Own: Belonging to God in an Inhuman World” -

Interview Start [31:35]
A metaphor for modern Western society [33:49]
Church is not the solution [39:37]
Pre-modernity is not the solution [42:33]
Paradox of identity in modern society [48:08]
Christian understanding of identity [54:24]
Deconstruction and identity [1:04:54]
A vision for Christian community [1:08:53]

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases

Sep 15, 2021
Episode 473: Did Texas End Abortion? & Drug War Casualties with Christina Dent

Last week, Texas passed a law effectively banning abortion after the sixth week of pregnancy, and the Supreme Court did not immediately strike it down. Both pro-life and pro-choice advocates have erupted in response. But what does the law really mean? Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn get into the weeds and explain why the Texas law isn’t the victory many assume. Then, Christina Dent shares about her unexpected journey from a conservative, Southern, Bible school graduate, to drug legalization advocate. She tells Skye about the unexpected casualties caused by America’s war on drugs, and what a more Christian response to the crisis could look like. Plus, China bans kids from playing video games. Is it a smart policy we should copy, or proof that communism is evil?

News Segment:
News of the Butt - Doctors find ladybug living inside man’s colon [4:05]

China bans kids from playing video games during the week [9:51]

Recent abortion law in Texas - overview & discussion [19:52]

Interview with Christina Dent:

End It For Good:

Christina Dent's TEDx talk:

Holy Post Episode 433 with Bonnie Kristian:

Interview Start [52:52]
Christina’s story [53:43]
It’s not about the drugs [57:40]
Childhood risk factors for drug use [1:00:52]
Would legalizing drugs solve any problems? [1:03:41]
The question of demand [1:09:48]
Why legalize all substances? [1:21:10]
Common objections to policy changes [1:27:11]

Sep 08, 2021
Episode 472: The “Sin of Empathy” & Spotting Toxic Leaders with Jamin Goggin & Kyle Strobel

Former megachurch pastor, evangelical wunderkind, and author of “I Kissed Dating Goodbye,” Josh Harris, has since left his wife and renounced his faith. He’s now pitching himself as an expert guide for other ex-vangelicals. What does his story tell us about the evangelical subculture? Then, strange things are happening at John Piper’s church in Minneapolis where leaders are clashing over issues of race and abuse. And some pastors are resigning after being accused of “the sin of empathy.” Then, Jamin Goggin and Kyle Strobel return to discuss revisions to their 2017 book “The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb.” They stopped selling the book and revised it because one of the Christian leaders they celebrated as a “lamb” turned out to be a “dragon.” They’re now asking, why do we so often fail to spot toxic church leaders? Plus, scientists are making mini-brains from stem cells. But to their surprise, the brains have grown eyes. Leading Phil to ask, What could possibly go wrong?

News Segment

Updates from the crew (Jason’s cinnamon rolls and Christian’s film) [1:49]

Stem cell mini-brains with eyes [7:45]

Josh Harris [16:21]

“Bethlehem Baptist Leaders clash over ‘coddling’ and ‘cancel culture’” [33:20]

Interview with Jamin Goggin & Kyle Strobel
The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb (Revised and updated edition):

Episode 238 (Prior conversation with Jamin Goggin and Kyle Strobel):

BONUS Patreon question: What do we do with the content and impact from toxic leaders?

Interview Start [1:00:39]

Why is there a new edition? [1:02:37]

Original story and role of book [1:06:35]

How they processed the news of Jean Vanier’s abusive behavior [1:10:43]

Discerning wolves from lambs - is there hope for progress? [1:16:17]

Ministering to people who have been deceived and hurt [1:24:04]

Sep 01, 2021
EPISODE 471 BONUS INTERVIEW - The Mess in Afghanistan with David French

Is the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan the right policy? And will abandoning the country ultimately cost more American lives than staying? And who’s really to blame for the mess that’s unfolding? Skye talks with David French about these issues and more in this special bonus interview. French is the senior editor of The Dispatch, an attorney, the author of numerous books, and an Iraq War veteran. This bonus episode features the first half of Skye’s hour long conversation with David French. The full 60 minute interview is available exclusively for Holy Post patreon supporters.

Full Interview with David French:

The Dispatch:

Three stages of recent events in Afghanistan [2:26]
Moral obligation to Afghans left behind [3:42]

Response to refugee resettlement objections [8:53]
Afghan armies and US military support [16:26]

Effect of US withdrawal on future US military credibility [21:12]
Who’s really to blame? [26:21]

Aug 27, 2021
Holy Post Episode 471: Oreos, Ethics, & Afghanistan with Matthew Soerens

With religious believers among the most likely to downplay the seriousness of both the pandemic and climate change, a recent article claims secular people and atheists are now more empathic and moral than conservative Christians. But is the problem really that evangelicals are less moral, or that they’re more easily deceived? Then, Matthew Soerens from World Relief talks about the unfolding tragedy in Afghanistan. What dangers do the thousands of Afghans who helped the American military face as the Taliban takes back the country, and what obligation does the U.S. have to help them? While evangelicals remain widely opposed to welcoming refugees, will they make an exception for those who risked their lives to help American troops? Plus, a strike at Nabisco threatens the country’s Oreo supply, launching Phil into a rant about cookie varieties and late stage capitalism.

Patreon Bonus with David French:

News Segment:

Nabisco strike and Phil’s rant about cookie varieties [4:22]

Afghanistan, Haiti, wildfires, floods, heatwaves and droughts [19:12]

Christian’s history with Afghanistan

[20:40] Current situation in Afghanistan [24:40]

Are Christians less empathic and moral, or simply more easily deceived? (Discussion of article below) [32:50]

Interview with Matthew Soerens: “Welcoming the Stranger: Justice, Compassion & Truth in the Immigration Debate” -

Interview Start [56:00]

Talking with church leaders about Afghanistan crisis [58:00]

Overview of current situation and America’s history/promises in Afghanistan [59:24]

Responding to the rhetoric that opposes welcoming refugees [1:08:20]

lang=en Evangelical Immigration Table - Statement to President Biden [1:12:34]

Practical ways to support [1:14:22]

Ongoing crisis - DREAMers and DACA program [1:17:01]

Aug 25, 2021
Episode 470: The Happiest Countries & Childlike Faith with Mandy Smith
The United Nations World Happiness Report is out, and it says the United States is still behind the world’s happiest countries. Can we learn anything from them, or does America’s diversity mean perpetual conflict? Then, pastor and author Mandy Smith says Western culture has warped our understanding of what it means to be a Christian by focusing too much on knowledge and power. The antidote? Embracing Jesus’ call to childlike faith. Also this week—covid skeptics have some explaining to do because last year life expectancy in the US dropped the most since WWII—and it wasn’t because of murder hornets. Plus, a woman sues McDonald’s for tempting her to break her Lenten fast.
News Segment:
Woman sues McDonald’s after burger ad compelled her to break Lent fast [2:55]
COVID-19 caused U.S. life expectancy to drop 1.5 years [09:38]
Interview with Mandy Smith:

Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith beyond the Baggage of Western Culture - 

Interview Start [48:06]
How is Western civilization in a tailspin? [49:56]
An antidote for two false ways of engaging faith [52:35]
Qualities of a childlike faith [56:01]
Wholistic faith and childlikeness [57:29]
Humility & honesty within disorder [01:00:37]
Error in overreacting to rationality of Western culture [01:05:21]
Story about dancing, healing, and releasing control [01:10:31]
Reconciling the call to maturity with a childlike faith [01:19:59]
Other resources mentioned:

(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)

Aug 18, 2021
Episode 469: Fighting Animals, Individualism, & Engaging Teens with Kara Powell

Phil’s Facebook page erupted after the recent episode about reparations—leading the Holy Post gang to ask about the limits of evangelical theology, and how American individualism has shaped our understanding of liberty, economics, and even theology. Then, a prayer service in Portland became a brawl between Proud Boys and Antifa involving paintball guns. Is it a harbinger of more conflicts to come? And a new survey finds Americans are far more confident than Brits they could triumph in a fight against a lion, a chimpanzee, and even an elephant. Then, Skye talks to Kara Powell, the Executive Director of the Fuller Youth Institute, about her latest book, “3 Big Questions That Change Every Teenager.” Based on extensive research, Powell explains the unique challenges young people face today, and how parents and churches can engage them with empathy while creating the right conditions for them to grow in faith.

News Segment:
Animal News: What animals could you beat in a fight? [3:16]
Proud Boys and Antifa clash at Portland prayer service [13:25]
Reparations, institutional responsibility, and responses on Phil’s Facebook page [19:10]

Anthony Bradley - Twitter thread on collective sin [20:49]
Individualism and collectivism [27:55]
Interview with Kara Powell:
3 Big Questions That Change Every Teenager (special link for Holy Post listeners) Start [50:28]
Recap of research leading to latest book [51:41]
Qualities of an empathetic church [53:54]
Three big questions (Identity, Belonging, Purpose) [59:41]
Question 1: Identity [1:02:53]
Role of technology [1:07:27]
Question 2: Belonging [1:12:06]
Mistakes for churches to avoid [1:16:16]
Questions to spark more questions [1:22:06]
Essential qualities for churches to shepherd young people [1:24:28]Other resources mentioned:
Aug 11, 2021
Holy Post 468: Lessons from the Rise & Fall of Mars Hill with Mike Cosper

It seems like everyone is talking about the new podcast from Christianity Today, “The Rise & Fall of Mars Hill” about the famed Seattle megachurch and its controversial pastor, Mark Driscoll. The creator of the podcast, Mike Cosper, talks to Skye about the complicated reality of Mars Hill, and what the rest of the evangelical church can learn from its story. Also this week, scientists discover a parasite that could make you live for 200 years, keep you perpetually young, and make you popular. But there’s a catch. A woman lets God take the wheel, literally. The Creation Museum in Kentucky thinks rebuilding the Tower of Babel in the key to racial harmony. And Phil’s confused about an Olympic team’s decision to wear shorts rather than the mandated bikini bottoms. Is it a victory for conservative or progressive values?

The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill:

Patreon Bonus Segment:

Aug 04, 2021
Episode 467: “Reparations,” the Review & the Response with Gregory Thompson

Earlier this year, Gregory Thompson and Duke Kwon released their book “Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance and Repair,” in which they make a biblical argument for the American church’s responsibility to repay the debts inflicted upon black communities by systemic racism and white supremacy. In this moment of political division and evangelical panic over Critical Race Theory, it’s not surprising that responses to the book have been polarized. One of the most negative and widely read reviews came from theologian Kevin DeYoung who said “Reparations” is “clearly not shaped by the gospel.” Thompson and Kwon then wrote a lengthy and detailed response to DeYoung’s review. (Links to both are posted below.) In this episode, Thompson talks to Skye about the debate, criticism of his book, and what the white evangelical response to racism reveals about its theology, mission, and blind spots. Phil and Christian then join Skye to discuss Thompson’s interview, and Christian shares a personal story to remind us all that change is possible.

“Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance and Repair” - 

Kevin DeYoung Review -

Review Response 1 -

Review Response 2 -

Other resources referenced:

"The Sum of Us" -

(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)

Jul 28, 2021
Episode 466: Sermongate, Stats, & Sexual Abuse with Mary DeMuth

When news broke that the new president of the SBC lifted portions of his message from the previous SBC president’s sermon without attribution, #Sermongate erupted. The Holy Post crew unpacks the controversy, why so many pastors either outsource their sermon prep or plagiarize, and why the pressure to preach may be harming the church. Then, in a dramatic reversal, new data from Pew says mainline churches are growing while evangelical churches are shrinking. Have evangelicals been burned by their own critique that mainline churches don’t take the Bible seriously? Then, author and advocate Mary DeMuth explains the history of sexual abuse in the church, why cover ups are now so common, how we can respond more redemptively, and the best ways to prevent abuse in the first place. Plus—good news! Scientists say we have a back-up breathing option if our lungs fail.

Resources from Mary DeMuth:

"We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis":

A Church Called Tov:

(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)

Jul 21, 2021
Jesus and John Wayne Episode 4: Fallen Warriors (The ‘10s - Today)

Calvin University history professor Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins Skye Jethani to discuss her bestselling book, "Jesus & John Wayne." In this episode, they look at the rise of Donald Trump among white evangelicals and how their response to the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol mirrors reactions to scandals involving celebrity church leaders. Du Mez also responds to criticism of her book, and where we might find hope for the future of American evangelicalism.

Part 1 - Authoritarian Pastors and the Authoritarian President
Part 2 - Insurrection and Sex Scandals (17:22)
Part 3 - Christian Media and the Marketplace (27:42)
Part 4 - Responses and Criticism (40:32)
Part 5 - Done and Undone (52:59)

Jesus & John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation:


(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)

Jul 16, 2021
Episode 465: July 4th Roundup & the Shadow Side of Christian Publishing w/Karen Swallow Prior

This 4th of July, Hobby Lobby took out a controversial full page newspaper ad featuring quotes, or mis-quotes, from America’s founders about being a Christian nation. An editorial from Robert P. Jones says July 4th is a time to decide what we believe more—the Declaration of Independence that says all people are created equal, or the European doctrine of discovery which enshrined white supremacy? And David French asks what it really means to be a patriot and love our country well as Christians.
Then, Karen Swallow Prior is back on the show to talk about a recent address she gave to the Evangelical Press Association about Christian publishing’s addiction to celebrity and lack of integrity. But who’s really to blame—Christian book publishers, or Christian book consumers? All of that, plus is Spiderman & the Pope the best MCU team up yet?

Patreon Bonus:

Jul 14, 2021
Jesus and John Wayne Episode 3: Tender Warriors (The ’90s - ’00s)

Calvin University history professor Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins Skye Jethani to discuss her bestselling book, “Jesus & John Wayne.” In this episode, they examine why white evangelicalism left behind some of its militant rhetoric after the Cold War ended in the early 1990s to embrace a kinder, gentler approach epitomized by the Promise Keepers movement, and how an aggressive vision of Christian masculinity returned after September 11, 2001. Plus, why an emphasis on racial reconciliation ultimately doomed Promise Keepers, and how other ministries learned to avoid any talk about race or justice.

Part 1 - Promise Keepers and Therapeutic Christianity
Part 2 - Servant Leaders and Racial Reconciliation (15:36)
Part 3 - Purity Culture and Fragile Masculinity (32:47)
Part 4 - 9/11 and the Neo-Calvinists (48:38)

Jesus & John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation

(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)

Jul 09, 2021
Episode 464: The Four Americas & Honest Prayer with Kyle Strobel

Phil, Christian, and Skye do a deep dive into George Packer’s recent article in the Atlantic called “How America Fractured into 4 Parts.” Packer argues that Americans no longer agree on the country’s purpose, values, history, or meaning. Is he right? And how do Packer’s 4 Americas map onto the church? Then, Skye interviews Kyle Strobel about his new book “Where Prayer Becomes Real.” Obviously, the book is about prayer but it’s also about something even deeper and more foundational to our faith—honesty. It’s vital for our transformation but in short supply in many churches. Plus, scientists say the earth has a pulse. Did God design the earth to destroy life every 27.5 million years? That sets the Holy Post crew down a path into theology, the problem of evil, and why ferrets are bad pets.

Where Prayer Becomes Real: 

(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)


Jul 07, 2021
Jesus and John Wayne Episode 2: Culture Warriors (The ‘70s - ‘80s)

Calvin University history professor Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins Skye Jethani to continue discussing her bestselling book, "Jesus & John Wayne." In this episode, they discuss how evangelicalism fought to maintain traditional authority structures in the home and society, except when those authority structures didn't fit their own political interests which ultimately led to the rise of the Religious Right.   

Part 1 - Feminism and Family Values (2:18)
Part 2 - Reconstructionism and the Religious Right (29:13)

Jesus & John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation:


(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)


Jul 02, 2021
Episode 463: Huckabee in the Hot Seat, Crisis at Cru, & Navigating Change with D. Michael Lindsay

Tyler Huckabee, senior editor for Relevant, joins the Holy Post crew to defend his recent article about VeggieTales. Did Phil’s mom trick him into creating vegetable characters who are beyond God’s salvation? Then, over 1,000 Cru staff members say the parachurch ministry’s focus on diversity and racism has resulted in mission drift. Are they right or is it another example of paranoia over CRT? Then, Christian college president D. Michael Lindsay shares about his new book “Hinge Moments: Making the Most of Life’s Transitions,” and the unexpected changes in his own life. Have we misunderstood what it means to follow God’s will, and what can we learn from the best leaders about how to change directions? All that, plus Skye’s cramped cross-country road trip.

Jun 30, 2021
Jesus & John Wayne: Episode 1: Cold Warriors (The '50s & 60's)

Calvin University history professor Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins Skye Jethani (co-host of The Holy Post) to discuss her bestselling book, “Jesus & John Wayne.” In this episode, they discuss how the Cold War shaped and defined American evangelicalism, how it differed from earlier 19th-century evangelicalism, and the lingering effects of the Cold War on the way many white evangelicals still think about culture, politics, and gender.

Part 1 - Revivalism and the Military (2:23)
Part 2 - Billy Graham and the Bomb (16:34)
Part 3 - Civil Rights and Vietnam (30:48)
Part 4 - From Cold War to Culture War (45:08)

Jesus & John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation:


(The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.)

Jun 25, 2021
Episode 462: Southern Baptists Resist the Pirates & Religious Liberty Goes to Court with Ed Stetzer & David French

With Skye out of town, Phil invites “hardest working man in evangelicalism” Ed Stetzer to sit in and discuss what went down in Nashville last week when 17,000 Southern Baptists all got in one room. What does it mean for Southern Baptists? What does it mean for evangelicalism? And does the mainstream media know the difference between the two?

There were also two very interesting court rulings that came down last week with implications for religious liberty in America. So conservative columnist and civil liberties attorney David French stops by to talk through free-speech cake baking and foster care, and to answer the question - what do we do when defending our own rights pits us against the neighbors we are called to love?

Plus... a farmer settles a property line dispute with a neighbor in a, shall we say, odorous way.


Jun 23, 2021
Episode 461: All Eyes on the SBC & Surviving Gun Violence with Taylor Schumann

Violent crime, including mass shootings, are way up. On average over 300 people are shot everyday in America. In 2013, one of them was Taylor Schumann. She talks with Kaitlyn Schiess about her new book, “When Thoughts and Prayers Aren’t Enough,” and the side of gun violence most of us forget—the survivors. Also this week, the Southern Baptists are meeting in Nashville where, according to the mainstream media, the entire fate of evangelicalism will be decided. Are they right? Plus, Relevant Magazine wonders if Phil’s mom gave him sound advice about VeggieTales, or was she playing 3-dimensional chess to mess with her son’s theology. And, why a lobster diver will be the illustration in every sermon this Sunday.

Jun 16, 2021
Episode 460: Consuming News Like a Christian with Jeffrey Bilbro
We are bombarded by more news than ever before, and many of us can no longer differentiate what’s real from what’s fake, or what’s important from what’s trivial. Jeffrey Bilbro, author of “Reading the Times: A Literary and Theological Inquiry into the News,” offers wisdom about what it means to engage the media as a Christian, why the first step may be a deeper engagement with our local church, and the value of cultivating a “holy apathy” about current events.
Also this week, Phil, Skye, and Christian respond to listener emails. Did Skye contradict one of his own sermons on a recent podcast? And what happened to the pipeline that used to carry kids in the church from birth all the way through college? Phil says it has completely blown up, but is that good or bad? And what does it mean for Christian parents? Plus, Jason is addicted to cinnamon rolls, and the magical musical armor of fireflies.
Jun 09, 2021
Episode 459: Remembering Tulsa and Rethinking Prayer

It’s been 100 years since the Tulsa Massacre—a dark moment in American history most Americans know nothing about. Which makes Phil, Skye, and Christian wonder, what else don’t we know? Wheaton College has removed the word “savages” from a plaque honoring martyred missionaries. Was the move a result of political correctness or just common decency? Then, Phil’s recent tweet about racism and anti-racism went viral, leading him to ask—when did evangelicals become more committed to preserving the world rather than changing it? Plus, the tables get turned when Skye gets interviewed by Kaitlyn about his newest book “What if Jesus was serious about prayer?” He explains why being a “radical” Christian isn’t what you think, and how prayer is way bigger than just talking to God. Plus, lonely Japanese eels are looking for attention on the internet.

Jun 02, 2021
Episode 458: The Gospel Demands Multiethnic Churches with Derwin Gray

Our society is more diverse than ever before yet ninety percent of churches in the U.S. remain mono-cultural. Derwin Gray says this isn’t just a problem for the mission of the church, it’s also a betrayal of the gospel itself. He talks with Skye about why he planted a multiethnic church, why so many church leaders resist this calling, and how a fundamental misunderstanding of the gospel is to blame. Also this week, the military has admitted that UFOs are real but doesn’t say if they’re extraterrestrial. If there are aliens, what are the implications for Christian theology? Plus, a new study finds that in countries where Christianity enjoys political power more people abandon the faith. So why do evangelicals want to take back Washington? And Phil wonders if psychedelic cicadas prove the existence of God.

Book launch:




May 26, 2021
Episode 457: Paul, Power, & Patriarchy with Beth Allison Barr

Hold on to your bonnets, Holy Posters. Phil is joined by Kaitlyn Schiess and, while Skye’s away, guest host Mike Erre to talk about the scandals and misogyny plaguing evangelicalism. Phil wonders—are these bugs or features? And is it possible to love evangelicals but hate evangelicalism? Kaitlyn and Mike also explain what keeps them committed to Jesus and his church amid so much mess. Then, Skye talks to Baylor University history professor Beth Allison Barr about her new book, “The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth.” Barr explains why Paul’s writings about women are widely misread, how women have led throughout church history, and how the Reformation created the domesticated vision of womanhood still idealized by the church today. All of that, plus science can’t explain a sea worm’s perplexing number of posteriors.

May 19, 2021
Episode 456: Why We’re Divided & Positive Pluralism with Bob Roberts

It’s increasingly difficult to have conversations with other Christians. Our families and congregations can’t seem to agree even about basic facts, let alone the news or how we ought to respond to what’s happening. So, we avoid talking about anything that might be controversial—which is pretty much everything today. What happened? How did we become so divided? The Holy Post crew talks about CT president Tim Dalrymple’s recent article, “The Splintering of the Evangelical Soul,” and what is necessary to heal our divisions. Then, Bob Roberts—the most interesting evangelical in the world—joins Skye for a conversation about why it’s critical to have deep relationships with people of other faiths. Roberts says it’s transformed his own understanding of Christianity, and isolating our kids from the world will only guarantee they join it. Also this week, Joshes battle for supremacy in Nebraska.

May 12, 2021
Episode 455: Is Your Church Toxic or Tov? with Scot McKnight

Rene Padilla died last week at 88, and you’re probably thinking “Who’s Rene Padilla?” Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the huge influence he had on the global church and its mission, and why so many American Christians still feel a divide between saving souls and reforming society. Then, Skye talks to Scot McKnight about his new book, “A Church Called Tov,” which he co-wrote with his daughter Laura Barringer in the aftermath of the Willow Creek controversy and Bill Hybles’ abuse. McKnight defines what makes a church culture toxic, and why so many pastors are on the narcissism disorder spectrum. It’s an eye-opening conversation. Also this week—a Kickstarter campaign for a new Christian dating service, a church in an unexpected location launches “Drag Queen Sunday,” and the terrifying story of a man, a portable toilet, and a tree.

May 05, 2021
Episode 454: Dangers, Doubts, & Deconstruction with A.J. Swoboda

In a recent editorial, David French asked whether the primary threat to the church comes from within or without? Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the question and whether the church is primarily for or against the world. Plus, why are so many Christian ministries focused on protecting kids? Is it related to our fixation on the danger of hell? Then, Skye talks with A.J. Swoboda about his new book “After Doubt: How to Question Your Faith without Losing it.” He says a lot of people aren’t really deconstructing Christianity, but a false form of the faith that should be abandoned. And Swoboda explains the danger of a culture in which everything new is seen as superior. Also this week—the Colorado baker refuses to make a transgender cake, coyote pups, and screaming foxes.

Apr 28, 2021
Episode 453: Table-Flipping Jesus & Improvising Faith with Dr. Timothy Gombis

There’s a popular cliche among evangelicals—“The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it.” But is it really that simple? Not according to New Testament scholar, Dr. Timothy Gombis. Because we’re not ancient Near Eastern people living in a desert, he says it’s not possible to literally apply the Bible. Instead, any faithful Christian needs to learn how to improvise. Dr. Gombis talks with Skye about faithful improvisation, what cross-shaped cultural engagement looks like, and how idolatry destroys bodies. Also this week, Phil’s tweet about angry Christians using “table-flipping Jesus” to justify their bad behavior causes an uproar. Does the story mean it’s sometimes ok to be nasty and insult our enemies? Plus, Pat Robertson is “woke” on police violence, and a French pastry in a tree terrorizes Poland.

Apr 21, 2021
Episode 452: The Messy Call to Christian Unity with Francis Chan

Francis Chan says it’s time for Christians to take Jesus’ command about unity seriously. His new book, “Until Unity,” outlines the biblical call to be one, and why we struggle to achieve it. Skye talks with Chan about what Christian unity looks like practically, the role of racism in keeping us apart, how a focus on church growth distracted Chan from seeking unity, and how to know when disunity is the only option. Also this week, a new study finds less than 50% of Americans are now members of a church for the first time in a century. Should secularists be rejoicing? Not necessarily, as some experts fear religious zeal is now shifting into politics. Plus, smuggling baby tortoises, Phil’s worried about a 3,000-year-old knife-wielding spider god, and a fecal fight between Godzilla and King Kong.

Apr 14, 2021
Episode 451: The Apocalypse Now with Dr. John Walton

Our favorite Old Testament scholar is back to talk about the Book of Daniel. Dr. John Walton says the apocalyptic passages of Daniel—which deeply influenced those End Times charts popular among evangelicals—aren’t really predictive of the future in the way we think. And the story of Daniel isn’t necessarily a manual for how Christians ought to live in a post-Christian society. Prepare to have your mind blown as you learn what apocalyptic visions in the Bible are really about. Also this week—how should Christians think about social welfare programs, slavery reparations, and guaranteed minimum income? Esau McCaulley brilliantly reframes the Easter story in light of the Black church’s experience. Plus, the excellence and etymology of Peeps.

Apr 07, 2021
Episode 450: The Evangelical Industrial Complex with Love Thy Neighborhood

Have you wondered why so many megachurch leaders have been embroiled in scandals, or why there are so many Christian celebrities today? It’s not accidental. It’s the predictable outcome of the systems behind much of popular consumer Christianity. In this special episode co-produced with the Love Thy Neighborhood podcast, Jesse Eubanks joins Skye to explore the way business interests and economics have replaced Christian values to drive many parts of American evangelicalism. Featuring multiple interviews, investigative reporting, and commentary, this episode will pull back the curtain on the evangelical industrial complex.

Mar 31, 2021
Episode 449: The Atlanta Shootings & Courageous Leadership with Richard Stearns

Is evangelical purity culture to blame for the murder of eight people at spas in Atlanta? Or is anti-Asian racism the cause? What about America’s gun culture or mental illness? Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the many facets of the tragedy and get vulnerable about their own history with evangelicalism’s obsession with sex. Then, Skye talks with Richard Stearns, president emeritus of World Vision, about his new book on leadership. Stearns recalls his own battle with purity culture when he tried to convince evangelicals to fight the AIDS epidemic 20 years ago, and he discusses the lack of courageous leadership in many parts of the church today. Also this week—a News of the Butter update.

Podcast Phil references:

Mar 24, 2021
Episode 448: Beth Moore's Exit & the Problem of "Impoverished Imaginations" with Karen Swallow Prior

Recently author/professor Karen Swallow Prior was asked what she considered the biggest problem facing the church today, and answered, "an impoverished imagination." So Phil sat down with Karen to talk through what she means by that, and her belief that a lack of imagination-forming reading results in, among other things, our propensity to believe conspiracy theories and our extreme discomfort with uncertainty. Karen also convinces Phil he really, really needs to read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. PLUS, Kaitlyn Schiess joins Skye and Phil to talk through Beth Moore's departure from the SBC, and whether the death of evangelist Luis Palau represents the end of the era of large-scale evangelism. Oh... and if you're using the story of Jesus flipping tables to justify bad behavior on social media, you're probably misusing that story. This week on the podcast!

Mar 17, 2021
Episode 447: The Danger of Useful Christianity with Russell Moore

What is the greatest threat facing Christianity in the U.S. today? Socialism? Cancel culture? Wokeness? Not according to Dr. Russell Moore. He says it’s “means-to-an-end-Christianity” which seeks to use Christ to achieve some other goal. This, he argues, is what’s fueling everything from Christian nationalism to the cover up of sexual abuse in churches and ministries. Don’t miss his wide-ranging conversation with Skye. Also this week, the podcast crew discusses the “Seven Mountain Mandate” behind so many of the cultural and political wars Christians are fighting today, and why it’s more about seizing power than serving Christ. How do we convince evangelicals to abandon conspiracy theories and get the Covid vaccine? Plus, Phil’s tired of hard butter.

Patreon Bonus:,30736

Mar 10, 2021
Episode 446: “Too Black”... Hip Hop Superstar Lecrae on His Relationship With White Evangelicalism

Filling his songs with faith and the theology of respected white leaders like John Piper and Tim Keller, Lecrae became a darling of white evangelicalism.  When he spoke out against racial injustice in 2017, all that began to change. Grammy-winning singer/songwriter, record producer and Christian activist Lecrae sits down with Phil to talk about being called “too Black,” Fallkirk Center co-founder Charlie Kirk’s recent attempt to “cancel” him, and, in the midst of it all,  why he still has hope for the church.

Plus - was that really a golden statue at CPAC??  Seriously??

Mar 03, 2021
Episode 445: You Might Be a Christian Nationalist If... & Transgender Identities with Preston Sprinkle

How do you know if you’re a Christian nationalist? Kaitlyn Schiess is back with Phil and Skye to unpack Samuel Perry’s top 10 indicators of Christian nationalism and they add a few of their own. They also discuss why there’s so much overlap between Christian nationalism and Christian fundamentalism. Plus, Phil explains how the evolution of contemporary Christian music reveals what’s happened to the American church. Then, Skye talks with Preston Sprinkle about his new book “Embodied: Transgender Identities, the Church, and What the Bible Has to Say.” They discuss what extremists on the Right and Left get wrong about the transgender conversation, and what a pastoral, not just a theological, response looks like. Also this week, a more accurate covid test is being used in China—but there’s a downside.

Feb 24, 2021
Episode 444: The Ravi Zacharias Revelations & Leaving the SBC with Charlie Dates

Here we go again. The evangelical world is shocked by another leadership scandal. This time it’s the report that famed apologist Ravi Zacharias sexually abused women for years before his death in 2020. Kaitlyn Schiess joins Phil and Skye to discuss the story, and why so many ministries fail to investigate their famous leaders or take abuse allegations seriously. Then, Skye talks with Charlie Dates, senior pastor of Progressive Baptist Church in Chicago, about his decision to leave the Southern Baptist Convention in December. Believing the SBC’s desire to overcome its racist past was genuine, Dates had to convince his historically black church to align with the SBC in the first place. He explains why he was wrong and what it means for the future of evangelicalism in America.

This week's Bonus segment:

Feb 17, 2021
Episode 443: False Prophets, Judgment, & Gen Z with Joshua Packard

Before the 2020 election, many self-identified “prophets” within the charismatic movement decalred God had revealed to them that Donald Trump would win. Millions of followers believed them. How are they now reconciling their divine revelations with reality? The Holy Post crew looks at another failed prophecy in the 1840s that changed American Christianity. Also this week, Phil deputizes Mike Erre as his pastor to determine whether his sarcastic response to a Twitter critic violated Jesus’ command against judging others. And sociologist Joshua Packard talks with Skye about a comprehensive new study on the faith of Generation Z, and why few churches are prepared to engage them. Plus, forced monkey labor.

Feb 10, 2021
Episode 442: Christian Nationalism & the Good Life with Derwin Gray

Evangelicals used to believe the way to transform America was through revivalism. Increasingly, they now believe it’s through revolution. Why are so many buying into Christian nationalism? What is it? And what can we do about those caught in this heretical gospel of political domination? Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the issue. Also this week, Dr. Derwin Gray—former NFL player and lead pastor of a multiethnic church in North Carolina—joins Skye to talk about his new book on the Beatitudes, “The Good Life,” and why Jesus was the happiest person ever. Gray also unpacks why so many pastors are afraid to talk about race and politics. Plus—nano chameleons and scientists teach vegetables to send emails.

Feb 03, 2021
Episode 441: Biden’s Inauguration & the Future of the Republican Party with Peter Wehner

Was Donald Trump good or bad for the Republican Party? The GOP lost the presidency and the Senate, but in 2020 the party gain seats in the House and Trump also got more votes than any Republican candidate ever! Conservative columnist and veteran of three Republican administrations, Peter Wehner, joins Skye to talk about the future of the party after Trump, and why evangelicals are the group most easily seduced by political power. Also this week, Kaitlyn Schiess joins Phil and Skye to discuss Biden’s inauguration, and to answer listener questions like—Why do so many conservative Christians oppose environmentalism? Why is there a split between older and younger Christians regarding Christian nationalism? And, why do the same leaders who say “We should be courageous enough to die for our faith” exhibit so much fear over cultural and political change?


Kaitlyn’s Twitter Thread

Jan 27, 2021
Episode 440: Southern Shame Culture & How to Fight Racism w/Jemar Tisby

Jemar Tisby (The Color of Compromise) rejoins Phil to discuss his new book, How to Fight Racism. Actual, real steps to be part of the solution, not part of the problem! Plus David French posits that the American church has been infected with something called “Southern shame culture,” which sends Phil on a journey into the “Lost Cause” narrative, confederate monuments, revisionist history and the overwhelming desire to “defend our tribe” and punch back at enemies, real and imagined. It’s a wild, historical journey from the Civil War to Franklin Graham! (And if you don’t like it, it’s David French’s fault.)

Bonus for Patreon Subscribers: Phil asks Jemar some tough questions: What’s his take on the CRT controversy in the Southern Baptist Convention? And what about abortion? Since white Christians are more likely to vote for pro-life candidates than Black Christians, does that mean Black Christians don’t care about abortion? It’s a fascinating conversation available to everyone who supports the podcast at any level!

Jan 20, 2021
Episode 439: Was the Capitol Attack a Christian Insurrection?

Everyone is trying to make sense of the attack on the Capitol last week by a violent pro-Trump mob displaying Christian symbols—including us! Kaitlyn Schiess joins Phil, Skye, and Christian to talk through the madness. Skye explains why this attack is fundamentally different from political violence in America’s past. Phil worries about the loss of objective truth and why responses on Facebook are so much worse than Twitter. The discuss why so many Christians and Christian leaders still support Donald Trump, and the crew  unpacks articles from three evangelicals—Ed Stetzer, Michael Gerson, and David French—who say white evangelicalism must face a reckoning. But will it?

Jan 13, 2021
Episode 438: The Year that Unveiled Evangelicalism with John Fea

We’re starting the new year with a look back. John Fea, history professor from Messiah College, author of “Believe Me: The Evangelical Road to Donald Trump,” and the official historian of the Holy Post podcast, says 2020 was a year that “unveiled” the truth about American evangelicalism. He also explores how different court evangelicals have responded to Trump’s loss, and what may happen next. Fea also looks at Phil’s recent video about the history of evangelicalism, and how the Second Great Awakening shaped so much of what we’re seeing today. Also this week—Skye goes skiing and Phil replaces Plinky Pete.

Jan 06, 2021
Episode 437: Ham on Phil - A Brief History of Young Earth Creationism

Recently, Young Earth Creation (YEC) champion Ken Ham took exception to Phil's statement that Ham "rejects mainstream science." In the flurry of social media activity that followed, a number of YEC experts took Phil to task, claiming he was wrong on several facts. Phil dug deeper and realized he WAS in fact wrong on a couple of things, but right on a bunch more. So this week Phil lays out what he got wrong and what he got right as we take a deep dive into the fascinating history of the movement called "Creation Science," or Ken Ham-style "Young Earth Creationism."


Buckle up!  It's a fun one!

Dec 30, 2020
Episode 436: The Jericho March, SBC vs. CRT (Cont.), & Evangelical Elites

Trump supporters who believe the election was stolen, including Eric Metaxas and the My Pillow Guy, marched on Washington D.C. to blow their horns and sell their merch. Notable was the absence of many of the President’s evangelical allies. Why didn’t they show? Influential black pastors are leaving the Southern Baptist Convention over their blanket opposition to Critical Race Theory. Given the SBC’s racist heritage, have they chosen the wrong battle? Sociologist Ryan Burge reports on the widening gap between evangelical elites and those in the pews. It’s becoming clear that the real leaders of evangelicalism aren’t found in churches, seminaries, or denominations, but in conservative media. Also this week—Vietnamese honey bees outsmart murder hornets with chicken poop.

Dec 23, 2020
Episode 435: Enhanced Humans & the New Eugenics with Calum MacKellar

Advances in medical technology have produced a Covid-19 vaccine in record time, but some of these advances have a dark side. Gene editing technology may end some diseases, but should we interfere with the conception and birth of those who carry certain genes? And what about creating enhanced humans? Bioethicist Calum MacKellar joins Skye for an important, and somewhat disturbing conversation about the new era of eugenics we are entering. Also this week, the Holy Post crew discusses a new book about Millennials and burnout. What makes Millennials different from the Greatest Generation that endured the Great Depression and WWII? Are they struggling because of a breakdown in family and faith, or because of U.S. economic and political failures? Plus, is there still a place for public shaming? And, hand sanitizer + dog = chaos.

Dec 16, 2020
Episode 434: Critical Theory & the Christian with David Fitch

Conservatives have recently found a new boogeyman—Critical Theory. Even Mr. Trump has issued an executive order declaring Critical Theory to be “anti-American,” and last week the presidents of six Southern Baptist seminaries said critical theory is incompatible with Christianity. Their statement, however, never defined what Critical Theory is nor what makes it unchristian. Theologian David Fitch is back to talk about the controversy and offers a more thoughtful way to assess which aspects of Critical Theory are useful, and not so useful, for Christians. Kaitlyn Schiess is also back with Phil and Skye to talk about the SBC’s response, and why white evangelicals see some evils as personal (racism) and others as systemic (abortion)? Are there similar inconsistencies on the political left as well? Also this week: Portland pastor Rick McKinley says nationalism with Jesus’ face is the religion of white Christians. That’s not too risky to say in Portland, but what if you’re a pastor in Dallas?  Plus, can we please stop sharing “unspoken” prayer requests?

Dec 09, 2020
Episode 433: Ending the War on Drugs with Bonnie Kristian

In November, seven states (both red and blue) had initiatives on their ballots to either decriminalize or legalize some drugs including marijuana, heroin, cocaine, and LSD. Every measure passed. As the U.S. continues to rapidly abandon its war on drugs, how should Christians respond? And if these addictive and dangerous substances are legalized, what happens next? Bonnie Kristian is back to talk about her recent op-ed arguing for an end to the drug war from an evangelical perspective. Also this week, another celebrity pastor has been removed from ministry causing Katelyn Beaty to ask, do we have a hot pastor problem? The crew debate why we want our church leaders to be attractive performers rather than spiritual leaders. A new study finds the U.S. is becoming more secular AND more religious at the same time. How do we bridge the divide? Plus, the Chinese pay $2 million for a Belgian pigeon.

Dec 02, 2020
Episode 432: The Idol of Individualism with E. Randolph Richards

The cultures which produced the Bible were collectivist, but most modern Western Christians are immersed in individualism. Biblical scholar and missionary, E. Randolph Richards says this causes many of us to misinterpret critical aspects of the Bible, or miss them altogether. He talks with Skye about his latest book, “Misreading Scripture with Individualist Eyes.” Also this week—has a decline in religious authority caused a decline in empathy in America? And how did we go from expecting institutions to form us, to now expecting them to affirm us? Jerry Falwell Jr. is suing Liberty University for damaging his reputation. Plus, Christian’s surgery, itchy rashes, and swearing parrots.

Nov 25, 2020
Episode 431: Can Social Media be Redeemed? with Daniel Darling

The CEOs of Facebook and Twitter testified before Congress this week about the toxic spread of misinformation on their platforms and the harm it causes to society. Sadly, many Christians are complicit in this trend. Daniel Darling is back to talk about how Christians must change the way we engage social media if there’s any hope of redeeming it. Also this week, Trump’s favorite television preachers have made a spectacle of praying for a miraculous election victory, but when does Christian prayer deteriorate into pagan magic? The crew discusses a new study about megachurches, why they’re growing even larger, how fewer are identifying as “evangelical,” and whether the pandemic will cause anyone to rethink the model. Also, Canada experiments with giving money to homeless people, and R.I.P. Sausage King of Russia.

Nov 18, 2020
Episode 430: The Politically Homogenous Church with Ryan Burge

The exit poll data from the election is in, and it looks like white evangelicals are as politically conservative and Republican as ever. Professor of political science from Eastern Illinois University, Ryan Burge, joins the Holy Post crew to discuss the findings. He says Democrats should give up on white evangelical voters who are now more Republican than Christian. Burge also looks at the formative power of cable news, why pastors are afraid to address the idolatry of politics in their pews, and why the data says the future of evangelicalism will be dramatically different. Also this week, Drew Dyck is back with his latest book selections to survive the pandemic. Plus, Tesla owners beware—you could accidentally butt dial a very expensive upgrade for your car.

Nov 11, 2020
Episode 429: Post-Election Night Reactions & Abortion Activism with David French

It’s 2020, did anyone really expect the election to be easy? The morning after the vote, a sleep-deprived Holy Post crew discusses what the incomplete results mean for the country and the church. The country hasn’t repudiated Trumpism, but they don’t seem to be embracing progressivism either. Did evangelicals still “hold their nose” and vote for Trump, or do exit polls show they’re deeply inhaling? An article from Christianity Today’s president, Tim Dalrymple, helps explain the evangelical divide over politics. And can the church learn to be prophetic again rather than partisan? Also this week, Phil talks with David French about reactions to the Holy Post video on abortion, and what the data shows will actually reduce the abortion rate in America.

Nov 04, 2020
Episode 428: How Should Christians Vote?

With less than a week until the election, Phil and Skye are joined by Kaitlyn Schiess to discuss what should, and should not, influence how Christians vote. First, they talk about reactions to Skye’s video (not Phil’s, he had nothing to do with it!) about abortion, and the different ways the issue is viewed by evangelicals. They also unpack recent articles about the election from three Christian leaders—John Piper, Al Mohler, and Joel Hunter. It is just a coincidence that the two retired pastors oppose Trump? And why does Mohler hold Black Christians to a different standard when voting? Phil explains why two traditionally Republican counties should make conservatives rethink their support for Trump. And why is every election framed as an existential threat to America? Finally, Skye talks with Scott Arbeiter, president of World Relief, about the historically low number of refugees resettled in the U.S., the current administration’s broken promise to help persecuted Christians, and why evangelical leaders and laity are so far apart on the issue of immigration.

Lifeway Research | “2016 Election Exposes Evangelical Divides”: 
Desiring God | “Policies, Persons, and Paths to Ruin: Pondering the Implications of the 2020 Election”: 
Albert Mohler | “Christians, Conscience, and the Looming 2020 Election”:
Michael Wear Responds to Al Mohler | Twitter Thread: 
Christian Post - Wayne Grudem | “A respectful response to my friend John Piper about voting for Trump”:
Oct 28, 2020
Episode 427: Can 1968 Explain 2020? with Os Guinness

Author and cultural commentator, Os Guinness, says, “If people don’t understand the 60’s, they can’t understand today.” Skye talks with Os about the re-release of his classic book, “The Dust of Death” and how the 60’s counterculture planted the seeds for the cultural upheaval and division we’re seeing in 2020. Also this week, can the National Association of Evangelicals restore the reputation of evangelicalism in America? The Gospel Coalition offers 6 wise suggestions for political engagement, and the crew discusses how church leaders can lead their congregations through potentially divisive topics. Plus, News of the Butt…in space!

“NASA Just Sent a New $23 Million Space Toilet to the International Space Station”:

“For the Health of the Nation” Statement:

6 Ways Christians Can Be Wiser in Public Engagement”:

Oct 21, 2020
Episode 426: Power, Freedom, and Identity with N.T. Wright

The most esteemed New Testament scholar alive today is back on the show! N.T. Wright discusses his new book about John’s gospel, “Broken Signposts.” Wright talks to Skye about two competing visions of power and freedom at work in the world today, and how the church sometimes fails to follow the right one. He also unpacks how “identity” has become the dominant framework in our culture, how it’s a reaction to colonialism, and the danger it poses to Christian unity. Also this week—Is America having a moral convulsion? David Brooks things so. The gang discusses his new article about what happens when we lose trust in America’s institutions and in one another, and why the church could be the answer. Plus, Phil gets invited to a cookout, Christian wins another award, and Skye’s dog vomits on his sofa.

Should Christians vote for Trump? Eric Metaxas vs David French:"America Is Having a Moral Convulsion":

Oct 14, 2020
Episode 425: Reading the Bible While Black with Esau McCaulley

Does the Bible have anything to say about the police? What about racial diversity? Are Christians called to submit to the government or reform it? Professor and Anglican priest, Esau McCaulley, talks about his new book, “Reading While Black,” and the African-American tradition of Scripture interpretation that avoids the either/or (conservative vs. liberal) thinking typical in the white church. Also this week, Phil shares about his experience being interviewed by Kirk Cameron and goes on a rant about “false binaries.” Christian is now an “award-winning” filmmaker. What should a useful voter guide for Christians include? And clowns object to the first presidential debate being called a “circus.”

"How Do Christians Fit Into the Two-Party System? They Don’t.”:

Oct 07, 2020
Episode 424: Evil Algorithms & Faith-Based Movies with Luke Barnett

The Holy Post crew discusses the new Netflix documentary, “The Social Dilemma,” about the way social media is contributing to the breakdown of society and how Facebook’s algorithms make reasonable people into extremists. Also this week, Skye and Josh Lindsay—his co-host on The Movie Proposal podcast—interview actor and screenwriter, Luke Barnett, about his new comedy “Faith Based.” Barnett explains how his long experience in the church informed the project, why Christian movies follow such a predictable formula, and how tribal identity rather than quality is what makes movies successful today. Plus, new research from Barna says fewer Christians think racism is a significant problem than a year ago. And Mexico passes a law preventing kids from buying junk food.


"‘We Had To Take Action’: States In Mexico Move to Ban Junk Food Sales To Minors”:"White Christians Have Become Even Less Motivated to Address Racial Injustice”:

Sep 30, 2020
Episode 423: Is America’s Gun Culture a Blessing or Curse? with David French

The United States now has more guns than people, and while overall violent crime is down the number of mass shootings is set to break a record in 2020 and suicides from guns is rising. How should Christians think about America’s gun culture? David French is back to offer a legal and moral argument for why most attempts at gun control are misguided. He says more legal gun ownership protects freedom, and Skye wonders if a public square filled with guns limits it. And if we can’t reduce the number of guns, what’s the best way to limit gun crime and mass shootings?


Also this week, the Holy Post crew is joined by Kaitlyn Schiess to discuss the legacy of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and what her death means for the presidential election and the future of the Supreme Court. Are the Republicans being hypocrites for filling Ginsburg’s seat weeks before the election when they refused to let Obama nominate a justice 8 months before the election in 2016? And what should we think of the Democrat’s threat to pack the court? Skye warns about dismantling political norms, Kaitlyn says Christians viewing every election as an existential threat is a failure of discipleship, and Phil plays the devil’s advocate by throwing down the abortion card.

Sep 23, 2020
Episode 422: The Church’s Complicity in Racism with Jemar Tisby

At numerous points throughout American history, Christians had a choice to confront the evils of racism or quietly ignore them. In a challenging conversation Jemar Tisby, author of “The Color of Compromise” and host of the “Pass the Mic” podcast, explores key moments from the arrival of the first African slaves in 1619 to the rise of the Religious Right in the 1970s when the white church in America chose silence or complicity rather than faithfulness. He also explains how Christian arguments to justify slavery are still being used by some today in the wake of police violence and Black Lives Matters. Also this week, Skye and Phil discuss why neighborhoods are becoming more segregated than ever. Tim Keller’s definition of “righteous” challenges our American and economic belief in self-interest. IBM is using A.I. to create fake crowds for televised sports during the pandemic. Plus, Amsterdam has an innovative solution for a scourge of “wild peeing.”


“The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism” by Jemar Tisby:



“IBM’s Watson to help tennis fans argue with each other:”


“These planter-like urinals are Amsterdam’s answer to the problem of ‘wild peeing’”:

Sep 16, 2020
Episode 421: Culture Warriors, Punching Protesters, & the Sacred Overlap with J.R. Briggs

Why does everything feel like it’s “us vs. them” these days? Pastor and author J.R. Briggs says it’s because we’ve been taught to see everything as either/or, while Jesus modeled how to live in the tension of both/and. Briggs calls the space between opposing ideas the “sacred overlap.” He talks to Skye about the role of mystery and paradox in Christian theology, and how it applies to contemporary issues. Also this week, why using war rhetoric to describe our Christian mission is very unchristian. Clean comedian, Jim Gaffigan, unloads on Trump in a profanity-filled Twitter rant. Did Eric Metaxas punch someone and then run through Washington D.C. backwards? Plus—beetles, frogs, and butts.


“The Sacred Overlap: Learning to Live Faithfully in the Space Between,” by J.R. Briggs:


“If You’re Fighting the Culture War, You’re Losing” by Cap Stewart:


“Jim Gaffigan calls Trump ‘liar and a criminal,’ slams ‘Trumpers’ in series of tweets”:


“Eric Metaxas confirms he punched protester, says protester was to blame”:


“These Water Beetles Make Their Escape Out of Frog’s Butt After Being Swallowed”:

Sep 09, 2020
Episode 420: Four False Political Gospels with Kaitlyn Schiess

We are deep into campaign season with Christians on all sides becoming increasingly anxious and vocal. Phil talks with Kaitlyn Schiess, author of “The Liturgy of Politics,” about the false narratives shaping the hearts and politics of many Christians. She identifies these “false gospels” as prosperity, patriotism, security, and supremacy—and they’re far more subtle and powerful than you might think, and they affect both sides of the partisan divide. Also this week, Jerry Falwell Jr. responds to his expulsion from Liberty U. by quoting MLK’s “Free at last...” speech. And Mike Pence quotes the Bible in his RNC speech but replaces “Jesus” with “Old Glory.” Is it the clearest example of Christian Nationalism yet?

“What Jerry Falwell Jr. Taught Me at Liberty University” by Kaitlyn Schiess:

“The Liturgy of Politics” by Kaitlyn Schiess:

“Vice President Mike Pence Swapped Out “Jesus” for “Old Glory” in His RNC Address”:

Sep 02, 2020
Episode 419: Rethinking Roe, Crotch Christianity, & Militant Masculinity with Kristin Kobes Du Mez

Is our vision of the ideal Christian man more like Jesus or John Wayne? Historian Kristin Kobes Du Mez talks about the rise of militant masculinity within evangelicalism, how the threat of Communism in the mid twentieth-century led church leaders to deify testosterone, and why we don’t like images of a weak, crucified Jesus. Also this week, Jerry Falwell’s “pool boy” scandal, John MacArthur says abortion, gay marriage, and transgenderism should determine how Christians vote which leads Skye to explain the difference between “cosmic” and “crotch” Christianity, and Phil unpacks David French’s latest article about why your vote for president will have no impact on abortion. Plus, it’s 130 degrees in Death Valley. What does that mean?

“Do Pro-Lifers Who Reject Trump Have Blood on Their Hands?” by David French


“About Those Manly Evangelical Protectors” by Kristin Kobes Du Mez:


“You Want Context? Jerry Falwell Jr’s Crotch Shot and Family Values Evangelicalism” by Kristin Kobes Du Mez:

Aug 26, 2020
Episode 418: The Pandemic, Power, & the Apocalypse

Back in 2016, Donald Trump gave a campaign speech promising that if elected “Christianity will have power.” The Holy Post crew discusses why this message has so much appeal to some Christians today, the way fear has come to mark our faith, and what we can do to counteract the trend. After the podcast is interrupted by a tornado, Christian asks if we’re seeing signs of the apocalypse. Skye says, “No” and shares his idea for a sermon titled “How Stupid Do We Think God Is?” Plus, listener mail.

The Voting Booth

Christianity Will Have Power

Aug 19, 2020
Episode 417: Defining Justice, Disciplining Jerry Falwell Jr., & Debunking Conspiracies

Everyone seems to be talking about justice—including Christians, but how we define “justice” in our society is hotly debated. Pastor and author Tim Keller has outlined 4 competing definitions of justice, and what sets Biblical justice apart from the rest. The Holy Post crew reviews Keller’s article and its implications. Liberty University has put Jerry Falwell Jr. on “indefinite leave.” Was it Falwell’s race-baiting, financial shenanigans, authoritarian leadership, or abuse of power that motivated Liberty’s board to act? Nope—it was a sexually-suggestive photo with Falwell holding alcohol. What does it say about what triggers evangelicals (and what doesn’t)? Also this week, friend of the show and host of the Vox Podcast, Mike Erre, talks with Skye about why Christians are drawn to conspiracy theories, and what motivated Skye to write his new book, “What If Jesus Was Serious?” Plus, Phil explains why he wants to live in a world where wild boar stroll into public areas with their piglets to steal things—and where naked Germans chase them.

Aug 12, 2020
Episode 416: Love & Truth in Politics with Justin Giboney

Does our faith shape our politics, or is politics shaping our faith? Justin Giboney is an attorney, a political strategist, and the co-founder and president of the AND Campaign. Rather than fighting over whether we should vote red or blue, Giboney believes Christians should use their influence to push both parties toward the love and truth of Christ. He talks with Skye about why that is more necessary and more challenging than ever. Also this week, a new book explores the intersection of white evangelicalism and masculinity leading the Holy Post crew to debate who’s less masculine—Phil or Skye? Plus, a South African couple has made an award-winning gin from elephant dung. Bottoms up!


Aug 05, 2020
Episode 415: Compromise & Conviction with Jon Tyson

The church in North America has more money and resources than ever before, so why is it increasingly ineffective? Pastor and author, Jon Tyson, is back to talk about his latest book, “Beautiful Resistance: The Joy of Conviction in a Culture of Compromise.” Tyson says “mammon” is the central idol in America today, and that much of the church worships it as well. But what is mammon? And why does Tyson think prayer and fasting is a path for the church to find real power again? He also shares what happened when his entire family contracted COVID19. Also this week, the crew discusses a Twitter thread about the implications or rooting Christian mission in the Great Commission (Matthew 28) rather than creation (Genesis 1-2), and why resistance to social change is foundational to evangelical theology. Finally, what can we learn from the 10 principles of Catholic social teaching?


Jul 29, 2020
Episode 414: Religious Power vs. Religious Liberty with David French

There are few public thinkers the Holy Post cites more often than David French, and he’s finally here in person! (Well, in person via Zoom.) French is the Senior Editor of The Dispatch, a columnist for Time, and a pro-life conservative attorney. Although many Christians are worried about the erosion of religious liberty, French says, “We have never enjoyed more religious liberty than we do right now.” The problem is that Christians are losing cultural power, and our attempts to retain it are often doing more harm than good. He helps us understand recent Supreme Court rulings about religious liberty and LGBT rights, why conservatives who are against face masks aren’t really pro-life, and how both the Left and Right get racism wrong. French explains why he will not vote for Trump, and why evangelicals have gone from holding their noses to enthusiastic support of a president who lacks both character and competency. Plus, what is “David Frenchism” and should we be worried about it?


The Case for Religious Liberty is More Compelling than the Case for Christian Power - The Dispatch: 
Jul 22, 2020
Episode 413: Disney Princess Theology & COVID19 Activism with Theon Hill

Why is COVID19 disproportionately harming communities of color? Why are we willing to criticize certain things about America but not others? And what about black voices who say systemic racism isn’t real? Friend of the show, Dr. Theon Hill, is back to discuss all of this and more with Phil and Skye. Also this week: why horror movie fans are more prepared than others for the pandemic, and how “Disney princess theology” has shaped the way you read the Bible.


Pandemic Practice: Horror Fans and Morbidly Curious Individuals Are More Psychologically Resilient During the COVID-19 Pandemic -
Want to Be Happy? A Top Psychologist Says Stop ’Social Distancing,' and Do This Instead - Inc. -
‘More than individual sin’ - Black pastors urge evangelicals to admit systemic racism - Religion News Service -
The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby
Why I Stopped Talking About Racial Reconciliation and Started Talking About White Supremacy - Inheritance -
The Black Church in Action Against Racism and COVID-19: A Practical and Biblical Guide to Prophetic Ministry While Protecting Health 
Jul 15, 2020
Episode 412: This is Your Brain on God with Dr. Jim Wilder

Some people spend years learning theology and studying the Bible, but experience little or no transformation in their lives. What have we gotten wrong? Dr. Jim Wilder is a neurotheologian—that means he studies theology and brain science—who says we’ve mistakingly made the gospel about knowledge when it’s actually about attachment. You don’t want to miss what he has to say about the importance of food, joy, and gratitude in spiritual formation. Also this week, how does having power—or not having it—influence our beliefs? David French says America is experiencing a religious fundamentalist revival, but it’s not Christian. And is the Holy Post guilty of being an echo chamber?


Episode #412
Opinion | When Antifa Hysteria Sweeps America - New York Times -
Slave Religion: The "Invisible Institution" in the Antebellum South
by Albert J. Raboteau
America Is in the Grips of a
But it’s not Christian. - The Dispatch -
Is Intersectionality a Religion? - Intelligencer -
Opinion | The Real American Idol and the Lives We Sacrifice to Appease It -
Jul 08, 2020
Episode 411: Where Do We Go From Here? with David Kinnaman

President of the Barna Group, David Kinnaman, is back to talk about the latest research on race and racism in the American church. Is the divide between black and white Christians shrinking, and is 2020 a true turning point or just an emotional release before a return to old ways of operating? Also this week, how can constellations help us understand the hysteria about Antifa? And does the evangelical emphasis on individual salvation contribute to racial resentment? Plus, an undersea bowel movement two years in the making.


Where do we go from here?

Jul 01, 2020
Episode 410: White Privilege, Cancel Culture, & Reading Revelation with Juan Hernandez

With the world being rocked by a pandemic and protests, many are seeing signs of the end times predicted by the Bible. Are they right? Some say they are misreading the signs. Others argue they’re misreading the Bible itself. Biblical scholar, Dr. Juan Hernandez, is back to discuss the right way—and the wrong way—to engage one of the most mysterious, and misread, book in the Bible. Also this week, what does “white privilege” actually mean and why do so many people react to the term? Evangelicals are upset about “cancel culture” but did they actually invent it? And learn how to avoid paying a farting fine in Austria. (Hint—it’s all about intestinal intent.)


Evangelicals perfected cancel culture. Now it’s coming for them. - Religion
Austria: man fined for farting ‘with full intent’ at police - ABC
Jun 24, 2020
Episode 409: Lessons from Phil’s Viral Video on Racism

Can a tweet really change anyone’s mind? Do hashtags and slogans help engagement or shut it down? The Holy Post crew discuss what they’re learning about effective communication following the publication of Skye’s op-ed in USA Today and the release of Phil’s viral video on the history of racism. Also this week, the Supreme Court protects LGBT citizens from employment discrimination. What does it mean for religious organizations? Is there a difference between saying “Black Lives Matter” and supporting the organization with that name? Plus, why is Jerry Falwell Jr. apologizing?

If you would like a special opportunity to see Christian’s upcoming film, The Girl Who Wore Freedom, please donate a minimum of $25 here:, and send your receipt to You will then receive further instructions. 

Jun 17, 2020
Episode 408: Race, Riots, & Rethinking the Gospel with Matthew Bates

As the country is rocked by protests following the murder of George Floyd, the podcast crew discusses the meaning of it all. Phil explains how being a part of a multiethnic church has opened his eyes to the challenges people of color still face. Christian reflects on her southern, segregated upbringing. And Skye shares about the racism he’s experienced in the church and the suburbs. Also this week, theologian Matthew Bates explains the ongoing, sometimes bitter debate over the definition of the Gospel. Is it really about personal salvation or something much, much bigger?

Jun 10, 2020
Episode 407: Celebrating Spiritual Curiosity with Jen Hatmaker

Some Christian communities are uncomfortable with challenging questions, doubts, and even curiosity. They prefer to keep life and faith in a neatly wrapped package. Jen Hatmaker came from such a community, but growing in her faith required more space to explore. Her spiritual curiosity came at a heavy price. This week the podcast crew talks with Hatmaker about her story, what she’s learned, and what it might mean for the future of Christians in our pluralist culture.

Show Notes:

Jun 03, 2020
Episode 406: QAnon & Rediscipling the White Church with David Swanson

Did Bill Gates create the pandemic? Are Democrats running a child-trafficking cartel? Is Trump a secret genius sending coded messages in his tweets? Conspiracy theories are spreading among evangelicals faster than Covid-19. The Holy Post crew discusses The Atlantic’s cover story about QAnon, why it’s so appealing to Christians, and why it’s a dangerous heresy. Then, Skye talks with Chicago pastor David Swanson about his new book “Rediscipling the White Church,” and what would change if pastors began to see racism as a discipleship problem and not merely a social one. Plus—is God against face masks? And a rockstar is hospitalized after an “over-enthusiastic gardening accident.”

May 27, 2020
Episode 405: Listener Mailbag, “In Trump We Trust,” & Drew Dyck’s Pandemic Picks

The podcast crew responds to listener feedback and questions posted on like, is it ok for Christians to be concerned about the mark of the beast if we avoid nutty conspiracy theories? New research finds white evangelicals consider Donald Trump the most trustworthy source for COVID-19 news and generally distrust public health officials and journalists.

This leads Phil to explain the tactics of demagogues and why today’s evangelicals are drawn to them. Also this week, Drew Dyck is back with his latest book and media recommendations to engage while you’re sheltering at home.


GOP Lawmaker Opposes Coronavirus Face Masks Because They Cover ‘The Image Of God’ - HuffPost Do White Evangelicals Get Their Coronavirus News? The White House - Christianity Today | Trump Is Staking Out His Own Universe of ‘Alternative Facts’ - The New York Times

May 20, 2020
Episode 404: Gender, Culture, and Leadership with Jo Saxton

The culture in many Christian communities and organizations is toxic for leaders, their families, and their faith. This is especially true for female leaders. Jo Saxton is back to talk about her new book, “Ready to Rise,” and how churches neglect God’s gifts when they ignore women’s voices and abilities, and why women suppress their gifts to be seen as “humble.” And don’t miss Jo’s important interpretation of the Mary and Martha story from the gospels—Wow. Also this week: Skye shares his family’s quarantine rules. Scholars are redefining the meaning of “evangelical” away from any shared theology and toward shared politics and media figures. Half of Americans aren’t wearing pants while working at home. Self-cleaning underwear has just arrived and you’ll need it when you see 2020’s latest plague—Murder Hornets.

May 13, 2020
Episode 403: Is God in Control or Not? with Mike Erre

More Americans have been killed by Covid-19 in two months than were killed in the Vietnam War in 20 years. Some Christians are responding to these uncertain times with familiar platitudes—none more popular than, “God is in control.” But is he? Mike Erre is back to talk about the tension in Scripture between God’s sovereignty and human free will. Also this week: What’s so special about lama blood? Churchgoers attempting to conduct a drive-in service get ticketed. A conspiracy theory growing among Christians says Dr. Fauci planned the pandemic in league with the antichrist. Has gullibility now become a Christian virtue? Skye shares his family’s quarantine rules, and Phil thinks bathing is overrated.

May 06, 2020
Episode 402: Is the COVID-19 Pandemic Divine Judgment?

The crazy Christian uncles are out in force declaring that the pandemic is God’s judgment on America for our sin and secularism. Are they right? Skye and Christian talk about it in a new edition of “Christian Asks....” Some theologians are arguing the opposite by declaring “God is not in control” of the current crisis. What?! The podcast crew also discusses conservative churches defying the government’s social distancing orders, and why are some Christians valuing the economy more than lives? Plus, scientists say farts can spread the virus, but there’s a solution. And Phil’s ukulele returns!

Apr 29, 2020
Episode 401: William Wilberforce—Christian Hero & Drug Addict with Timothy McMahan King

William Wilberforce is celebrated as a model of Christian cultural engagement for ending the British slave trade, but most Christian biographies of Wilberforce ignore the fact that he was addicted to opium for most of his life. Timothy McMahan King, author of “Addiction Nation,” explains why. He shares his own story of overcoming opioid addiction which kills over 70,000 Americans every year, and how equating addiction with moral failure hurts far more than it helps. Also this week, Hulk Hogan says God is judging our idolatry with COVID19. Is he right? Skye explains why the eschatological nuts are probably wrong about this being the end of the world. And Phil tries to cut his hair with horse clippers.

Apr 22, 2020
Episode 400: Anniversary Q&A Live via Zoom!

Phil, Skye, and Christian are celebrating their 400th episode like everyone else—quarantined in their homes. But they invited their Patreon supporters to join them for a live Q and A session via Zoom. The crew discusses their favorite podcast guests, interviews that managed to change their minds, and a bucket list of future guests. Youl’ll hear about Phil’s inability to “find my Roy,”  their Enneagram numbers, lessons for churches from the pandemic, and hear Skye’s dog barfing in the background. It’s an audio delight for the whole family.

Apr 15, 2020
Episode 399: Who Should We Blame? & Helping Girls Change the Narrative with Erin Weidemann

The quarantined gang is back again, with better audio quality this time. (Sorry about last week!) Phil shares an experience with preschool-via-Zoom, then the group discusses two proposed theories for America’s vulnerability to the coronavirus… A) We’re compromised by the anti-science rhetoric of fundamentalist Christianity, or B) We’re all too selfish and individualistic. Skye wonders if the real answer is… C) All of the above?

Plus, Phil (yes, Phil!) sits down for a chat with Erin Weidemann, an author, speaker and cancer survivor who has launched Truth Becomes Her - a ministry helping girls resist society's destructive messages about beauty and worth.

The U.S. has the Most Covid-19 Cases Worldwide. Why? Because we're selfish. From the San Diego Union-Tribune

The Religious Right is Crippling our Coronavirus Response from the New York Times


Apr 08, 2020
Episode 398: Tales from the Quarantine & Being Kind with Ashlee Eiland

Phil, Skye, and Christian talk via Zoom as they “shelter at home” during the coronavirus pandemic (sorry for the audio quality), but there is some good news. Clothing sales are up—but only for tops. Churches experiment with ‘drive-in’ worship. Phil shares N.T. Wright’s honest thoughts about the pandemic and why the best Christian response is lament, while Skye responds to fundamentalists who are certain that homosexuality and environmentalism are to blame for the virus. Plus, Mars Hill’s teaching pastor, Ashlee Eiland, talks about her new book and the power of radical kindness in a world of fear.

Apr 01, 2020
Episode 397: Virtual Church & Artificial Intelligence with Jason Thacker

Are machines going to take over the world? What happens to our jobs once everything is automated? And if computers can think, learn, and feel, do we need to redefine what it means to be human? Jason Thacker joins Skye for a conversation about his provocative new book, “The Age of A.I.” Also this week, Smurfs congregate in France in defiance of the coronavirus. Creators of “The Bum” allow you to wear celebrity posteriors. And with everyone migrating to streaming worship services during the pandemic, how legitimate is virtual church? Plus, Phil alienates the country of Belgium.

Mar 25, 2020
Episode 396: Pandemic, Mr. Phil TV, & Foreign Policy with Bonnie Kristian

The world is upside down because of the coronavirus pandemic, but fear not! Phil is here to save us from being locked in our homes with our children without entertaining and informative Bible content. Learn all about Mr. Phil TV and how to sign up. Also, if you didn’t make it to Costco for toilet paper, we’ve got you covered with natural alternatives for bathroom tissue. Finally, journalist and The Week columnist, Bonnie Kristian, talks to Skye about foreign policy and why it should be the most important factor when voting for a president. (FYI, their conversation was recorded before the COVID-19 outbreak.)

Checkout Phil’s new kids streaming service - Mr. Phil TV - at and start a free trial!

Mar 18, 2020
Episode 395: The End of the World is Nigh!

No, we’re not talking about the global coronavirus pandemic. Phil is worried about a record-breaking locust swarm, an army of 100,000 Chinese ducks, and a new line of “self-care” Barbies complete with a meditation app—because America isn’t self-focused enough. Also this week, screen use and a decline in exposure to sunshine are elongating human eyeballs. The Southern Baptists appear determined to eliminate anyone respected by outsiders from their ranks. Christian updates us on her WWII documentary project, and why does a French tire company rank restaurants.

Mar 11, 2020
Episode 394: The Cure for Jerks with Eugene Cho