The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast

By Kelly Chase

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mike
 Aug 25, 2022
Goes deep into the rabbit hole of the ufo 🛸 world. Explores avenues and connections well beyond our current understanding.

Description

The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast is a structured, science-based deep dive into the phenomenon. Grounded enough for skeptics, accessible for newbs, and deeply researched enough for seasoned ufologists—oh, and also it's fun. Hosted by Kelly Chase.

Episode Date
Ep 17: An Interview with Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka
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In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.

LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
If you aren’t already familiar with Diana’s work, you’ll definitely want to start with these two episodes before listening to this interview to get the full context of our conversation.
Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt. 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore
Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race

GET DR. DIANA WALSH PASULKA’S BOOKS

American Cosmic: UFO’s, Religion Technology
Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory In Catholic Devotional And Popular Culture

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE

The Question Concerning Technology by Martin Heidegger
What Is Called Thinking? by Martin Heidegger
Discourse On Thinking by Martin Heidegger
I, Product by Jacques Vallee
Society of the Spectacle by Guy Dubord
Republic by Plato
Dr. James Madden
Marie Mutsuki Mockett
2001: A Space Odyssey
Nope

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TIMESTAMPS
00:00:30 Intro
00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic]
00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies.
00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols?
00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols?
00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with?
00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program?
00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs
00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion
00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic
00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger
00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology?
01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief
01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle
01:13:17 Plato’s Cave
01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice
01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave
01:29:34 The danger of Technology
01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book
Jan 26, 2023
Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race
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In this episode, we’re discussing one of the most profound transitions in human history–that of our evolution from a terrestrial species to a spacefaring one. And as we examine the history and origins of the space programs in both the United States and the Soviet Union, we discover one of the most remarkable and baffling stories ever told, hiding in plain sight.

To put it simply, many of the fathers of modern space flight were occultists who believed themselves to be in direct communication with non-human intelligences who were helping to guide their work. While their claims sound too extraordinary to even be considered, the startling breadth and innovation of the work that they claim sprang for this paranormal communication makes it difficult not to wonder if perhaps there might have been something to those claims.

We’ll discuss the work of Jack Parsons, an intrepid young rocket scientist and occultist who palled around with the likes of Aleister Crowley, L. Ron Hubbard, and Howard Hughes, whose remarkable life was cut short by his mysterious death at 37. And we’ll also explore the work of Russian Cosmists like Konstantine Tsiolkovsky whose prophetic work seemingly foretold the intricate details of space flight decades before Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space.

And once again, we’ll look at Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka’s phenomenal book American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology clues to whether these occult practices might still be in use among top members of the space program today. And the answers are, frankly, shocking.

In this episode we’ll begin to ask some of the most important questions that will follow us on our journey forward:

What is the occult? What does the occult have to do with UFOs? How is it that so many “impossible” things seem to have a basis in reality? And what do we do when our models of reality stop working?

Welcome back to The UFO Rabbit Hole.


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GET AMERICAN COSMIC BY DIANA WALSH PASULKA

READ THE 2022 UFO REPORT - Office of the Director of National Intelligence

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Music Break: "Hymn to Pan" by Son of a Priest
Jan 20, 2023
Announcements: What To Expect In 2023 [I'm So Excited!]
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It's a brand new year, and I have so many exciting updates to share with you all about the podcast—including the fact that you're about to get a WHOLE LOT more episodes! Get all of these updates, including when you can expect episode 16, in this quick bonus episode.

LISTEN TO THE RABBIT HOLE COVERSATIONS
Apple Podcasts
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Also available wherever else you listen to podcasts.


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Main Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
The UFO Rabbit Hole Conversations Theme: The Uh Experiment by RimskyMusic
Jan 07, 2023
Ep 15: The Moon Is Weird AF: The Apollo Missions & The Mysterious Origins Of The Moon
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Welcome back to The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast. Today we turn our attention to our nearest neighbor, and the anchor for some of those most compelling and mysterious stories in the UFO lore—the Moon.

Hanging serenely in the night sky, its face unchanging aside from the precise pendulum swing of the lunar cycle, the Moon is our constant companion. It’s the one heavenly body that we can easily observe with the naked eye, and as such it feels deeply familiar to us.

But what if there is more to the Moon than we ever realized? It’s an unnerving thought to consider that the Moon as we know it might not be what we think it is at all. But that’s exactly what the deep UFO lore surrounding the Moon suggests.

In this episode we’ll discuss theories for the origins of the Moon (including the theory that it might be an alien superstructure), the mysteries surrounding the Apollo missions and the moon landing, what some of the top astronauts from the early space program have said about the Moon, and we’ll even tell a story about Neil Armstrong that I, frankly, straight up didn’t believe the first time I heard it.

The Full Ross Coulthart Interview On Theories Of Everything With Curt Jaimungal

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Music Break One: Insomniac’s Dream by Sémø
Moon Landing: No One Is Out Here by Yehezkel Raz
Outro: Moon by Space DovesSupport the show
Nov 18, 2022
Ep 14: Nazis & UFOs [Pt 4]: Admiral Byrd, Operation Highjump & Hollow Earth
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In the final installment of our series on Nazis & UFOs, we’re doing a deep dive on one of the most beloved—and most mysterious—stories in the lore: that of Admiral Byrd, Operation Highjump, and Hollow Earth.

Rumors have abounded for decades that, after WWII, what remained of the Third Reich escaped to a sprawling secret base under the ice in Antarctica—the mythical Station 211. But could this story be more than a mere wartime legend?In 1947, the largest military operation since the end of the war embarked from the United States to Antarctica, allegedly on a scientific expedition. But could Operation Highjump, lead by famed explorer and America hero, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, have had another mission? Could they have been in search of the fabled Nazi base?

What they found in Antarctica has been a matter of much debate, with some saying that they encountered secret Nazi technology—including the infamous flying saucer—and still others claim that Admiral Byrd made contact with a super advanced race of humanoids from Hollow Earth.

Could any of this possibly be true? We’ll investigate and find out.

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Airflow by Evgeny Bardyuzha
Free Radicals by Stanley Gurvich
Sep 15, 2022
Ep 13: Nazis & UFOs [Pt 3]: Antarctica, Atlantis & Alien Bases
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In part 3 of the Nazis & UFOs series we explore the soure of some of the most outlandish and intriguing stories in UFO lore—Antarctica.

In 1938, Nazi Germany made an expedition to Antarctica where they claimed territory. What could have compelled them to make that investment of time and resources in the lead up to WWII? Were they looking for something? And could they have found it?After the war, rumors swirled that what remained of the Third Reich escaped to secret bases in Antarctica, and from there the mystique only grew. Since then, a baroque mythology has sprung up around the southernmost continent, with each new twist and turn only adding to mystery.

Today, we’ll dive into some of the most popular—and bizarre—theories as to what the Nazis may have found in Antarctica—including the lost city of Atlantis, an unknown ancient culture from the distant past, secret alien bases, and more.

GOOGLE EARTH LINKS
The Azores
The Pyramid in Antarctica

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Jul 28, 2022
Ep 12: Nazis & UFOs [Pt 2]: The Occult & Secret Technology
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In part 2 of our 3 part series on the intersection of Nazi and UFO lore during WWII, we’ll be diving into two major themes of this mythology: the occult and secret technology. We’ll be getting into everything in this episode: German occult clubs, Theosophy, secret technology, Die Glocke, foo fighters, the search for the Holy Grail and other relics, and more.

And as we begin to untangle this dense and sprawling lore, we’ll see a new narrative being to emerge—one of humanity grappling with the unthinkable.

MENTIONED IN EPISODE
UFOs Before Roswell: European Foo-Fighters 1940-1945 by Graeme Rendall

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Music Break 1: My Lord by Yarin Primack
Music Break 2: Jakub Pietras
Jun 27, 2022
Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore
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In part one of this 3-part series on the UFO lore connected to WWII and Nazi Germany, we begin by doing a deep dive into the emergence of UFO lore itself. While there is a ton of UFO lore connected to WWII, what is largely considered to be the first modern UFO sighting didn’t happen until 1947—2 years after the war ended. So to understand exactly what was going on during WWII, we need to first understand, not just how UFO lore first emerged, but how belief systems in general emerge and evolve over time.

We’ll talk about the ontological complexity of the 20th century, the sequence of events in 1947 that shaped our modern understanding of the phenomenon, and dive deeper into the mystery surrounding the lore to ask some of the bigger questions. This includes one question that I never thought I’d ask, which is—could the emergence of UFO mythology be the seeds of a modern religion?A massive shout out to Diana Walsh Pasulka for her incredible book, American Cosmic, which helped me look at the phenomenon in a whole new light and played a big role in shaping this episode.

MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology by D.W. Pasulka
In Plain Sight: An Investigation Into UFOs and Impossible Science by Ross Coulthart
Luis Elizondo on EarthFiles with Linda Moutlon Howe

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May 19, 2022
Ep 10: A Rational Approach To Ancient Aliens [Pt 3]: Non-Human Intervention & Cataclysms
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In the final part of this 3 part series, A Rational Approach to Ancient Aliens, we finally get to the good stuff—non-human intervention and cyclical global cataclysms. We’ll start by taking a tour of some of the most mysterious archeological sites in the world: from Puma Punku in Bolivia to Baalbek in Lebanon. We’ll even talk about a sunken city off the coast of Cuba that may be 50,000 years old.

Do these anomalous sites prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the ancient alien theory is true, and that human civilization was guided—or perhaps even seeded—but a super advanced intelligence in the distant past?

And finally, we’ll look at the evidence surrounding the cataclysm that kicked off the Younger Dryas as well as examine the possibility that a more dramatic and profound cycle of global disasters may be responsible for shaping human history.

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Music Break 1: Asturias by Alon Peretz
Music Break 2: Ancient by Nimrod Nol
Apr 03, 2022
Ep 9: A Rational Approach to Ancient Aliens [Pt 2]: The Secret History Of Human Civilization
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In this episode we dive into part 2 of our series on the concept of ancient aliens by examining whether or not the UFO phenomenon may have played some role in the emergence of human civilization.

Human civilization is the manifestation of everything that makes the human species so unique—but how did it evolve? Where did it come from? To attempt to answer this question we’ll look at how we define civilization and how we identify it in the archeological record. We’ll look at the story of human civilization according to mainstream academics, as well as evidence that this story is incorrect.And finally, we’ll begin to discuss how the story of human civilization might be rewritten, and the role that the UFO phenomenon may have played—along with other startling possibilities.

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Mar 09, 2022
Ep 8: A Rational Approach To Ancient Aliens [Pt 1]: Archeology & Epistemology
3399
Over the last seven episodes, we’ve established that the Pentagon has admitted that UFOs are real, that they are operating with impunity in our airspace, and that we don’t know what they are. We’ve talked through some of the most common explanations for what the UFO phenomenon might be, considering everything from secret human technology to future humans and from extraterrestrials to ultraterrestrials. We’ve also met some—though certainly not all of the main players in the current disclosure movement.

Although we’ve covered a lot of ground, when it comes to understanding the full scope of the UFO phenomenon and its implications for humankind, we’ve barely scratched the surface.

In this episode, we’ll begin to tackle some of the most fundamental questions raised by the UFO phenomenon—starting with the question of whether the UFO phenomenon may have had an influence on our ancestors in the distant past. For many, this line of questioning brings to mind Ancient Aliens, and the ancient astronaut theory, but there are other equally startling and profound possibilities that are suggested by the evidence as well—including the idea that the story of human civilization is far longer and far more dazzling that we ever imagined.

But before we can begin to truly tackle these questions, we need to spend some time talking about the epistemology of archeology—what do we know, what can we know, and how sure are we that the established narrative of human history is correct?

We’ll do a quick intro to epistemology, discuss some of the verification challenges that exist within archeology, explore the limits of our current dating techniques and the unique challenges that we encounter in attempting to date megalithic structures. We’ll also look at the academia and the peer review system to identify the ways that the most innovative and potentially impactful ideas can be systematically rejected and marginalized. And finally, we’ll talk about the difference between science and pseudoscience, and establish a simple framework that we can use to tell the difference between the two.

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Music Break: Waking From The Dream by Charlie Ryan
Feb 15, 2022
Ep 7: Mr. Delonge Goes To Washington [Pt 2]: It Gets Crazier
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In this episode, we pick up with Tom Delonge where we left off in Part 2—with the stunning and unlikely events that led to the formation of the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences and ultimately to the Pentagon’s admission that UFOs are real.

So what happened to TTSA? What are the original TTSA members (including Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, Jim Semivan, Hal Puthoff, and Steve Justice) doing now? In this episode we’ll get an update. We’ll also explore why it is, that despite his astonishing success and ultimate vindication, that Tom Delonge continues to be a controversial figure in the UFO community.

And finally, we’ll get to the part that everyone has been waiting for—what does Tom Delonge believe about the UFO phenomenon? It’s been confirmed that Delonge’s advisors within the government weren’t just real, but they are the very people who would know what secrets the government might be hiding about UFOs. So with this insider knowledge and guidance, one has to assume that what Delonge says publicly about his beliefs surrounding the phenomena has been shaped significantly by his exposure to and briefings by these individuals. Which is exactly why what Tom Delonge has to say about UFOs is so shocking.

You won’t want to miss this one.

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Feb 03, 2022
Ep 6: Mr. Delonge Goes To Washington [Pt 1]: The Craziest Story You've Never Heard
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Hidden in plain sight, right smack dab in the middle of the growing UFO disclosure movement of the past 5 years, is a story so strange, so entirely unexpected that you wouldn’t be blamed for mistaking it for fiction—but it’s true.

Within the events and cast of characters around the infamous New York Times article and the leaked U.S. Navy videos that confirmed the reality of the UFO phenomenon one unlikely figure stands out among the crowd of former CIA agents, aerospace executives, and other high-ranking officials—pop punk icon, Tom Delonge. But the notorious UFO enthusiast and former Blink 182 frontman doesn’t just make a cameo in this story—without him, there would likely have been no story to tell.

In part one of this story, we’ll explore how Tom Delonge’s early life and road to stardom set him on a collision course with this important moment in history, the shocking story of how he assembled his team for the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, and the pivotal role that he played in the events that led to the Pentagon’s stunning admission that UFOs are, in fact, real.

Hear the full interview of Ross Coulthart on Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal.

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Music by Rival Tides
Music Break: Vultures! [Instrumental]
Outro Music: All My Friends Are Stoned [Instrumental
Jan 25, 2022
Ep 5: The Interdimensional and Ultraterrestrial Hypotheses
4201
Although the UFO phenomenon tends to be associated with aliens, there are a few even more fantastical theories about its origins.

Many of most respected scientists and researchers in ufology don't think that the evidence points to any of the more conventional explanations—and that whoever is creating UFOs might not be from the stars at all, but from right here on Earth.

But how could an advanced civilization be here without our knowledge? In this episode we explore the possible answers.

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Jan 07, 2022
Ep 4: Are UFOs Humans From The Future?
1563
Although the UFO phenomenon tends to be associated with extraterrestrial visitors from other worlds, could the explanation lie closer to home? Could these craft actually be humans from the future?

Since the publishing of his ground-breaking book, In Plain Sight: An Investigation Into UFOs & Impossible Science, acclaimed investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart has begun to open up about a startling claim he says is coming from his contacts at the highest levels of our government—that UFOs are future human technology. Could this astonishing claim possibly be true?

We dive into this question on this week's episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast.

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Dec 17, 2021
Ep 3: Are UFOs Alien Technology?
4004
In this episode, we finally ask the burning question that's been on everyone's mind: If UFOs aren't from here, does that mean that they're from "out there"?

We go down the rabbit hole to discuss the possibility that the UFO phenomenon is alien technology. What are the chances that intelligent extra life exists? How would it get here if it did exist? And why haven't we encountered them yet if they're here?

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Dec 10, 2021
Ep. 2: Are UFOs Human Technology?
2716
In this episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast we dive into the question of whether UFOs could actually be human technology.

Could this be a massive government cover up? Could disclosure be a psyop designed to consolidate power and instigate war? Or could this technology belong to one of our adversaries?

And what would it take for us to consider other more "exotic" alternatives? Does it even make sense to consider non-human technology as a possibility?

The answers might surprise you. Welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole.

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Nov 19, 2021
Ep. 1: The Pentagon Says That UFOs Are Real
2260
The Pentagon has admitted that UFOs are real, that they violate our airspace with impunity, and that we have no idea what they are.

An elite group of military intelligence insiders—including the former head of the Pentagon's secret UFO program, Luis Elizondo—have stepped forward to advocate for greater transparency around this baffling phenomenon. In May of 2022, Congress held the first hearings on the topic in over 50 years.

So what the heck is going on? Could this possibly be true?

The UFO Rabbit Hole is a structured, rational, science-based deep dive into these puzzling developments in an attempt to answer that very question. Grounded enough for skeptics, accessible enough for newbs, and meticulously researched enough for the most battle-hardened ufologists, this podcast is an essential guide for anyone who wants to understand more about most the most baffling and compelling news story of our times.

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PRAISE FOR THE UFO RABBIT HOLE PODCAST

Finally!
“Kelly Chase has done what so many others have failed miserably at: discuss this topic reasonably. This subject’s landscape is littered with overinflated egos carrying on about what they claim to know and how you’d respond if only you knew what they knew to interviewers who eagerly enable their dangerously self-serving rhetoric. Enter Kelly Chase, a genuinely curious host who questions everything and claims nothing. Her approach is the best I’ve encountered anywhere.”
—ANewLeif via Apple Podcasts · USA · 09/03/22

The best podcast on the topic
“This is hands down the best UFO podcast around. Each episode is incredibly well researched and has a nice balance of belief and skepticism, Kelly is an incredible storyteller and she manages to easily and clearly explain complicated concepts that some struggle with. I’m convinced that if she were to turn her episode scripts into a book, it would be a bestseller.”
—DevilBoi69x via Apple Podcasts · USA · 08/31/22

Finally, a UFO deep-dive that feels authentic!
“I love this topic, but it also attracts a lot of kooks due to the highly interpretive subject matter. It’s been difficult to find creators that feel like they’re doing their absolute best to remain unbiased and drive us closer to the source of truth. Kelly does an excellent job of getting us further into the rabbit hole without compromising her integrity or the trust of her audience. From the very first episode I could tell this was going to be a fun and fascinating ride, and so far I’m hooked!”
—Tt0n0 via Apple Podcasts · USA · 10/14/22

Brilliant!
“This is absolutely brilliant! The integration of UFO information with philosophy has been transformative. I have leaned so much and, more importantly, think about our world in a new way.”
—Von Economo via Apple Podcasts · USA · 09/30/22

Highly Intelligent Analysis
“Coming from someone who has spent tens of thousands of hours researching this field, this was a refreshing delight. Dissecting this already extremely complex field is really hard. How does one lay out information on a topic which no one actually knows what’s going on? Well Kelly does a wonderful job covering the vast array of very interesting linked topics.”
—Timfdkbshvcd via Apple Podcasts · Australia · 09/22/22

Brilliant podcast on the phenomenon!
“I’ve recently discovered this podcast and want to tell everyone I know to listen to it! It’s a brilliant show for absolute beginners but also for the UFO enthusiast. Kelly is so thoughtful & mapped out a vision for how to unfold this insanely complex topic. She shares many perspectives on the topic, weaving in her own synthesis and opinions as well. She is light hearted and witty while also being a fantastic researcher.”
—Hathor1320 via Apple Podcasts · USA · 09/20/22
Nov 18, 2021